What happened to " we will track your exp earned " ????( Gina Bruno answered this 12/28/2014)

Tavore1138 · January 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

I can see it on the next ESO Live. "Why ZoS will never release information to the community about up-coming gameplay changes."

What might be more helpful would be if it were to be titled: "Why ZoS will never release MISinformation to the community about up-coming gameplay changes."

If they'd said 30CP up front then there would have been some anger but it would have gone away faster - this issue is still big because the person in change of the Champion system either lied or didn't understand their own system. If the former then why lie at all, if the latter then they would have been better not making promises they didn't know if they would be able to keep.

For another example of how not to handle comms witness the shambles around the 6 month subs thing.

Inconsistent, sluggish, grudging & inaccurate communication has been a trademark of Zenimax since long before ESO came along - they seem unable to acknowledge, and thus learn from, their errors.

Bouvin · January 2015

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Unless something changes between now and when 1.7 is released, there is not going to be an XP conversion ever. All characters that are above level 50 will be reset BACK to level 50. There is not going to be any compensation for the loss of character progression that people have been working toward and accomplishing since pre-launch last April (2014).

In addition to all vr1+ characters being reset back to 50, all vr1+ items in the game will be reset to accommodate the fact that 50 will be the character cap (again).

There are quoted ZOS statements saying this in many threads, too many for me to go find and quote here. But again, unless something changes between now and when 1.6 and 1.7 are released, this is the plan.

^^ This is why people are unhappy.

First, everyone with V1 or better gets exactly 30 CP.

THEN, everyone gets reset back to level 50. However, since the V14 crowd didn't receive the extra CP they earned, they are essentially WIPING any experience you gained from V2 through V14.

Considering it takes at least 2x as long to go from V1 to V14 as it does 1-50, this is as close to to a CHARACTER WIPE as you can get.

Awww gee... and I wonder why people are upset. This is one of those game killing moves, and ZOS seems determined to do it anyways.

Gilvoth · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Unless something changes between now and when 1.7 is released, there is not going to be an XP conversion ever. All characters that are above level 50 will be reset BACK to level 50. There is not going to be any compensation for the loss of character progression that people have been working toward and accomplishing since pre-launch last April (2014).

In addition to all vr1+ characters being reset back to 50, all vr1+ items in the game will be reset to accommodate the fact that 50 will be the character cap (again).

There are quoted ZOS statements saying this in many threads, too many for me to go find and quote here. But again, unless something changes between now and when 1.6 and 1.7 are released, this is the plan.

^^ This is why people are unhappy.

First, everyone with V1 or better gets exactly 30 CP.

THEN, everyone gets reset back to level 50. However, since the V14 crowd didn't receive the extra CP they earned, they are essentially WIPING any experience you gained from V2 through V14.

Considering it takes at least 2x as long to go from V1 to V14 as it does 1-50, this is as close to to a CHARACTER WIPE as you can get.

Awww gee... and I wonder why people are upset. This is one of those game killing moves, and ZOS seems determined to do it anyways.

that is correct, that's why i made a new character and hes almost 21 now, and hopefully 50 by monday.

Grao · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Unless something changes between now and when 1.7 is released, there is not going to be an XP conversion ever. All characters that are above level 50 will be reset BACK to level 50. There is not going to be any compensation for the loss of character progression that people have been working toward and accomplishing since pre-launch last April (2014).

In addition to all vr1+ characters being reset back to 50, all vr1+ items in the game will be reset to accommodate the fact that 50 will be the character cap (again).

There are quoted ZOS statements saying this in many threads, too many for me to go find and quote here. But again, unless something changes between now and when 1.6 and 1.7 are released, this is the plan.

^^ This is why people are unhappy.

First, everyone with V1 or better gets exactly 30 CP.

THEN, everyone gets reset back to level 50. However, since the V14 crowd didn't receive the extra CP they earned, they are essentially WIPING any experience you gained from V2 through V14.

Considering it takes at least 2x as long to go from V1 to V14 as it does 1-50, this is as close to to a CHARACTER WIPE as you can get.

Awww gee... and I wonder why people are upset. This is one of those game killing moves, and ZOS seems determined to do it anyways.

@Bouvin, the 30 Champion Points haven't even been released on the PST. I was just as upset as you are now until I realized why ZoS can't give away all the CPs owed to those that have gathered experience.

Because the Veteran System is still in place giving the full range of CPs owed to, for example a Vr14 would be the same as making them instantly into a Vr28. Do you understand how that would be problem? At the same time, ZoS needs people testing out the Champion System, so they have to give everyone a few points, but it has to be the same for everyone, so not to mess with the balance of the Veteran Ranks. That is where they came up with the 30 Cps flat value.

Now, come the 1.7, if ZoS does not convert exp as they should, well, then we will have a serious problem. Right now what we need is for Gina or Dev to come around and confirm those conclusions we managed to take from their previous statements and discuss how the retirement of the veteran system will work.

Iluvrien · January 2015

Pathfinder wrote: »

Honestly what it comes down to is should anyone bother playing at all until 1.8 hits? Since ZOS can't be trusted, whether through malice or negligence, to tell the truth about how CP will effect existing V1+ characters when it is fully implemented.

Because I always have a great deal of fun while doing so?

Honestly. I am coming to the end of a two week stay with my in-laws and without my PC (and therefore ESO). I am aiming to mislay several days, at least, in ESO's direction when I get back to the game.

What will come with 1.8 will come. If I do further damage to my advancement chances then so be it. I will play knowing that I accept the consequences. Nobody else is making that decision for me. Here's hoping you can find something to do, in the game or out of it, that pleases you to a similar degree. (This last part isn't sarcastic, I really do hope that you can spend your time enjoyably.)

Aett_Thorn · January 2015

Yup,

I am NOT mad that they changed the way that the initial allotment will work. I understand that sometimes system changes need to occur, and while it is unfortunate, it happens.

I am SLIGHTLY mad that they actually came out and told people to keep going through content and then changed their minds.

I am REALLY mad that the change occurred in the development process, and that the Devs didn't tell people that it might happen as soon as they knew that it might. At some point between the Oct. 3rd statement and the ESO Live event, things had changed. I am betting that it wasn't the day of the event. So sometime before ESO Live, things had changed. AT THAT POINT, the Devs should have told people that the promise was no longer accurate. This would have given people more time to change their play up so as to not run all of the content, hopefully.

This is why I truly feel like the Devs do not have the right PR staff working for them, or maybe they do and just aren't listening to them. They seem to be applying an "It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" philosophy to a crowd known to shoot first and ask questions later. It's just bad management and planning, and it all could have been avoided if they had been more up front about the changes.

Bouvin · January 2015

Grao wrote: »

Now, come the 1.7, if ZoS does not convert exp as they should, well, then we will have a serious problem. Right now what we need is for Gina or Dev to come around and confirm those conclusions we managed to take from their previous statements and discuss how the retirement of the veteran system will work.

Doing 30 at 1.6 then converting at 1.7 would be fine.

But from the line they've been taking it doesn't sound like that's what is going to happen.

Also, it's a lot worse to take away levels than jump levels people earned from stored XP.

global_gbb16_ESO · January 2015

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Grao · January 2015

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Morshire · January 2015

The saddest part to this whole argument - the game isn't even a year old and people are so mad they are leaving. Hardcore gamers and fans were at the launch and have followed them religiously till now. The answer, "Just quit" in response to these threads from other players no less. And so they quit - be it rage quit or some educated elegant departure still equals one less.

But according to some "Oh well, there will be others". I ask you, where will those people come from? What more will this game sacrifice to make them want to come? Are they the type of gamer people want the game based around? Will you still be happy when all the "complainers" are gone and this new wave of players magically leaves their F2P game for ESO?

I think these threads of outrage are getting into the double digits, as are the people leaving, and someone needs to take notice. And whether you agree or disagree, read the above paragraph again. Think of all the games you have quit and why. Now realize that that is the pool this game is going to have to go to if they want to drive the revenue. (Meaning they will build this game to attract those players)

Before people leave, I wholeheartedly support this cause. I would rather "lay on the ground and throw a tantrum" then walk away from the game I have always liked (Pre ESO). And whether you are happy or not with this game, I think we all need to look at what / who we are going to lose and who / what we are going to gain.

Players = $$$$ More players = more $$$ How to get more players, make a game that they like to play. People unsub = less $$$. Management to devs "Get us more $$$. Devs change the game to attract more players. Is it a better game, guess time will tell right?

Francescolg · January 2015

No one deserves a compensation in CP for endgame content done after reaching VR14! Your time spent the last 4-5 months is worth personal experience! You also had the chance to make new friends!

- Endgame Raiders have their golden items, undaunted skills and the entertaining group-experiences they will never forget doing all those dungeons!

- Endgame PvP'ers have their decorative PvP-rank and PvP-skills and lots of hours spent in the Horse Simulator 2014, which they can upgrade to the "Farming Simulator" game for even more PvP. They now can spend CP to buy a farmer horse, if they do not have one so far.

- Never do math like: level 50 +14VR +30 CP -14VR +xx CP +10 level (next upgrade) or you will be banned from the game for conspiracy!

Grao · January 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

No one deserves a compensation in CP for endgame content done after reaching VR14! Your time spent the last 4-5 months is worth personal experience! You also had the chance to make new friends!

- Endgame Raiders have their golden items, undaunted skills and the entertaining group-experiences they will nether forget doing all those dungeons!

- Endgame PvP'ers have their decorative PvP-rank and PvP-skills and lots of hours spent in the Horse Simulator 2014, which they can upgrade to the "Farming Simulator" game for even more PvP. They now can spend CP to buy a farmer horse, if they do not have one so far.

- Never do math like: level 50 +14VR +30 CP -14VR +xx CP +10 level (next upgrade) or you will be banned from the game for conspiracy!

As a mathematician your last point makes my head ache.

Morshire wrote: »

The saddest part to this whole argument - the game isn't even a year old and people are so mad they are leaving. Hardcore gamers and fans were at the launch and have followed them religiously till now. The answer, "Just quit" in response to these threads from other players no less. And so they quit - be it rage quit or some educated elegant departure still equals one less.

But according to some "Oh well, there will be others". I ask you, where will those people come from? What more will this game sacrifice to make them want to come? Are they the type of gamer people want the game based around? Will you still be happy when all the "complainers" are gone and this new wave of players magically leaves their F2P game for ESO?

I think these threads of outrage are getting into the double digits, as are the people leaving, and someone needs to take notice. And whether you agree or disagree, read the above paragraph again. Think of all the games you have quit and why. Now realize that that is the pool this game is going to have to go to if they want to drive the revenue. (Meaning they will build this game to attract those players)

Before people leave, I wholeheartedly support this cause. I would rather "lay on the ground and throw a tantrum" then walk away from the game I have always liked (Pre ESO). And whether you are happy or not with this game, I think we all need to look at what / who we are going to lose and who / what we are going to gain.

Players = $$$$ More players = more $$$ How to get more players, make a game that they like to play. People unsub = less $$$. Management to devs "Get us more $$$. Devs change the game to attract more players. Is it a better game, guess time will tell right?

I agree with you. Agreeing or not with our complains, it is clear there is a problem between ZoS and a part of the community and that problem need to be solved before the rift becomes impossible to mend.

global_gbb16_ESO · January 2015

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

Grao · January 2015

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · January 2015

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

This pretty much sums my attitude up too, I promised myself I'd give them a year and with 3 months to go it's looking promising. If I do leave I will probably come back when everything established and Beta is officially over

Grao · January 2015

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

This pretty much sums my attitude up too, I promised myself I'd give them a year and with 3 months to go it's looking promising. If I do leave I will probably come back when everything established and Beta is officially over

Yup, a complete change of systems just proves this game was released a little too fast. It is still fun though, even if frustrating when Patches come around

EQBallzz · January 2015

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

It's cool that you have found justification to continue playing (and paying) based on the *hope* that they current plan will be changed but I don't think I will be doing that. I think some of us don't want to continue investing more time and money into a system that will pull the rug out from under us come 1.7.

If they haven't changed course by the time 1.6 releases and make some kind of clear statements to that effect I think I would rather let my account expire and then just come back later if it turns out they changed their minds for 1.7. Not going to continue throwing good money/time after bad when I have little reason to trust ZOS to do the right thing at this point.

Bouvin · January 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

No one deserves a compensation in CP for endgame content done after reaching VR14! Your time spent the last 4-5 months is worth personal experience! You also had the chance to make new friends!

- Endgame Raiders have their golden items, undaunted skills and the entertaining group-experiences they will nether forget doing all those dungeons!

- Endgame PvP'ers have their decorative PvP-rank and PvP-skills and lots of hours spent in the Horse Simulator 2014, which they can upgrade to the "Farming Simulator" game for even more PvP. They now can spend CP to buy a farmer horse, if they do not have one so far.

- Never do math like: level 50 +14VR +30 CP -14VR +xx CP +10 level (next upgrade) or you will be banned from the game for conspiracy!

It's not the time spent past VR14. It's the time spent past VR1, on all characters you leveled past VR1.

VR1-14 = 2x longer than 1-50.

Grao · January 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

It's cool that you have found justification to continue playing (and paying) based on the *hope* that they current plan will be changed but I don't think I will be doing that. I think some of us don't want to continue investing more time and money into a system that will pull the rug out from under us come 1.7.

If they haven't changed course by the time 1.6 releases and make some kind of clear statements to that effect I think I would rather let my account expire and then just come back later if it turns out they changed their minds for 1.7. Not going to continue throwing good money/time after bad when I have little reason to trust ZOS to do the right thing at this point.

They do need to release a statement regarding what will happen come 1.7, hope will only get me so far. It is hope, not foolishness. ^^

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · January 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

No one deserves a compensation in CP for endgame content done after reaching VR14! Your time spent the last 4-5 months is worth personal experience! You also had the chance to make new friends!

- Endgame Raiders have their golden items, undaunted skills and the entertaining group-experiences they will never forget doing all those dungeons!

- Endgame PvP'ers have their decorative PvP-rank and PvP-skills and lots of hours spent in the Horse Simulator 2014, which they can upgrade to the "Farming Simulator" game for even more PvP. They now can spend CP to buy a farmer horse, if they do not have one so far.

- Never do math like: level 50 +14VR +30 CP -14VR +xx CP +10 level (next upgrade) or you will be banned from the game for conspiracy!

@Grao: this is why my patience is gone with certain types of people. ZoS is easy to deal with- stop paying them. the ones that chim in with these notions are people that others have to work and play with, in the game. these statements are just SOOO old and played out and they don't even touch the topic at all regarding the VR to CS conversion which this and many threads are about.

not only that, they said they are reevaluating content and gear. so gear can be drastically changed along with the content difficulty. the vr14 golds now, may stay gold, but they can possibly be nerfed or simply grandfathered so that next gear-upgrade cycle may not be upgrades, leaving the second generation of gear upgrades being the only set to boost your character (which might be another year from now). they may change the set bonuses in such a way, that the gold items no longer apply with your play-style, especially since abilities are also being changed. this concept can be applied to the PVP specific sets (if any) as well. however, no one seems to care about the gear or the skill changes; just the experience conversion and rightly so. i sure didn't play a game for faux-life-experiences.

the VR14 "power over the VR1" is only a limited time experience. if you are concerned about that, then tell ZoS that they need to NOT implement the VR system replacement WITH the VR system in place. what they should do/have done is just remove VRs, add within the trees the equivalent attribute/skill points currently available (applying them properly to the current VRs), follow through with the Oct 3rd statement, and install the CS progression. in less time than it took to get VR14 you can get the same attribute points/skill points and invest them sooner to give you the "feel good" equality.

the math equation people are only concerned with is (x) VR exp = (Y) CP exp. no body is interested in anything but the conversion that ZoS changed midstream...

Grao · January 2015

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

No one deserves a compensation in CP for endgame content done after reaching VR14! Your time spent the last 4-5 months is worth personal experience! You also had the chance to make new friends!

- Endgame Raiders have their golden items, undaunted skills and the entertaining group-experiences they will never forget doing all those dungeons!

- Endgame PvP'ers have their decorative PvP-rank and PvP-skills and lots of hours spent in the Horse Simulator 2014, which they can upgrade to the "Farming Simulator" game for even more PvP. They now can spend CP to buy a farmer horse, if they do not have one so far.

- Never do math like: level 50 +14VR +30 CP -14VR +xx CP +10 level (next upgrade) or you will be banned from the game for conspiracy!

@Grao: this is why my patience is gone with certain types of people. ZoS is easy to deal with- stop paying them. the ones that chim in with these notions are people that others have to work and play with, in the game. these statements are just SOOO old and played out and they don't even touch the topic at all regarding the VR to CS conversion which this and many threads are about.

not only that, they said they are reevaluating content and gear. so gear can be drastically changed along with the content difficulty. the vr14 golds now, may stay gold, but they can possibly be nerfed or simply grandfathered so that next gear-upgrade cycle may not be upgrades, leaving the second generation of gear upgrades being the only set to boost your character (which might be another year from now). they may change the set bonuses in such a way, that the gold items no longer apply with your play-style, especially since abilities are also being changed. this concept can be applied to the PVP specific sets (if any) as well. however, no one seems to care about the gear or the skill changes; just the experience conversion and rightly so. i sure didn't play a game for faux-life-experiences.

the VR14 "power over the VR1" is only a limited time experience. if you are concerned about that, then tell ZoS that they need to NOT implement the VR system replacement WITH the VR system in place. what they should do/have done is just remove VRs, add within the trees the equivalent attribute/skill points currently available (applying them properly to the current VRs), follow through with the Oct 3rd statement, and install the CS progression. in less time than it took to get VR14 you can get the same attribute points/skill points and invest them sooner to give you the "feel good" equality.

the math equation people are only concerned with is (x) VR exp = (Y) CP exp. no body is interested in anything but the conversion that ZoS changed midstream...

Well, yes. On my post (link in my signature) I mentioned this problem is of ZoS creation. Systems that were never meant to coexist shouldn't be forced to, alas, ZoS needs to test out parts of the Champion System and they don't have a large test server or many official, hired, beta testers.

As for the skill changes, I think that is to be expected. ESO is still a new game, there are abilities that are trully useless, so having those replaced will be good. Having Destro and Resto staff scale from spell power makes perfect sense... So those changes, they worry me because I will need to relearn my class, but at the same time they excite me cause I will have to relearn my class and maybe the new rotations will be nicer. Who knows. (I play a Sorcerer and our rotation can't get more boring then it was)

Finally, but not least at all, changes to gear. That is coming, we all know. Since the veteran ranks are being retired with them go the gear requirements of the veteran system... How it will work only the gods and the Devs know... I sure have no idea what will be done, specially concerning crafted gear.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster · January 2015

I had hope for the last week or two ZOS had better sense than this. People have quoted @ZOS_MariaAliprando numerous times saying they "are tracking" our progress so that we'd be compensated for our time invested when the Champion System is implemented.

I haven't played since December 19th, when I first learned ZOS was going back on their word, but I have been checking back periodically to see whether or not ZOS was *truly* intent on invalidating hundreds of hours of my time.

This is the treatment we should expect from this studio from here on out. Even if ZOS comes to their senses and they change their minds, the damage is done.

/unsubbed
/moving-on

I will, however, take notice when the console release of this game comes and goes with a whimper. ZOS used up all of the Elder Scrolls franchise loyalty momentum when the PC version launched. The "new players" ZOS keeps prioritizing over the current players do not exist, so the projections they're using to justify this boneheaded decision are wrong.

I'm really sorry this game is going to flop. It had a lot of potential. It's a shame the people in charge of it aren't more competent (or honest). You can't make promises to your customers and break them without consequences. Period. I have too much self-respect to keep playing now that ZOS has proven itself untrustworthy.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2015

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

I had hope for the last week or two ZOS had better sense than this. People have quoted @ZOS_MariaAliprando numerous times saying they "are tracking" our progress so that we'd be compensated for our time invested when the Champion System is implemented.

I haven't played since December 19th, when I first learned ZOS was going back on their word, but I have been checking back periodically to see whether or not ZOS was *truly* intent on invalidating hundreds of hours of my time.

This is the treatment we should expect from this studio from here on out. Even if ZOS comes to their senses and they change their minds, the damage is done.

/unsubbed
/moving-on

I will, however, take notice when the console release of this game comes and goes with a whimper. ZOS used up all of the Elder Scrolls franchise loyalty momentum when the PC version launched. The "new players" ZOS keeps prioritizing over the current players do not exist, so the projections they're using to justify this boneheaded decision are wrong.

I'm really sorry this game is going to flop. It had a lot of potential. It's a shame the people in charge of it aren't more competent (or honest). You can't make promises to your customers and break them without consequences. Period. I have too much self-respect to keep playing now that ZOS has proven itself untrustworthy.

Sadly, I expect to see a lot more of these posts. Normally I wouldn't take /quit posts very seriously but in this case I do think there might be quite a backlash from this. Nobody likes to feel like their time is trivialized and this decision to completely reverse their position to track XP isn't even necessary. My hope is that this blows over and update 6 is a huge success and a lot of fun. I'm not confident that will be case though.

Tavore1138 · January 2015

Grao wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

It's cool that you have found justification to continue playing (and paying) based on the *hope* that they current plan will be changed but I don't think I will be doing that. I think some of us don't want to continue investing more time and money into a system that will pull the rug out from under us come 1.7.

If they haven't changed course by the time 1.6 releases and make some kind of clear statements to that effect I think I would rather let my account expire and then just come back later if it turns out they changed their minds for 1.7. Not going to continue throwing good money/time after bad when I have little reason to trust ZOS to do the right thing at this point.

They do need to release a statement regarding what will happen come 1.7, hope will only get me so far. It is hope, not foolishness. ^^

The problem is though - lets say they come out this week and go:

"Grao - we assure you that in about 3-4 months once we have tested, released & patched 1.6 and are about to send out 1.7 we will compensate you for the x hundred hours of post level 50 time in the form of some additional CP, we have the numbers."

How based on the current dishonesty could you actually trust that a week before 1.7 drops they wouldn't then come back and say:

"Hey, things change, our word is not our bond, see ya".

??

Because as much as on the surface this is about the number of CP and the time spent the real issue that underpins all the anger and woe is TRUST.

A senior dev told us something that was not true - there was no need to make that promise in such clear terms but they chose to do so.

A senior CS person did not actually apologise (Gina's post was very carefully & deliberately worded to not be an apology).

How can we trust what they tell us in future?

NotSo · January 2015

I'm just going to wait quietly for an update from ZOS. Reading everything you guys have to say really sucks.

Grao · January 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

It's cool that you have found justification to continue playing (and paying) based on the *hope* that they current plan will be changed but I don't think I will be doing that. I think some of us don't want to continue investing more time and money into a system that will pull the rug out from under us come 1.7.

If they haven't changed course by the time 1.6 releases and make some kind of clear statements to that effect I think I would rather let my account expire and then just come back later if it turns out they changed their minds for 1.7. Not going to continue throwing good money/time after bad when I have little reason to trust ZOS to do the right thing at this point.

They do need to release a statement regarding what will happen come 1.7, hope will only get me so far. It is hope, not foolishness. ^^

The problem is though - lets say they come out this week and go:

"Grao - we assure you that in about 3-4 months once we have tested, released & patched 1.6 and are about to send out 1.7 we will compensate you for the x hundred hours of post level 50 time in the form of some additional CP, we have the numbers."

How based on the current dishonesty could you actually trust that a week before 1.7 drops they wouldn't then come back and say:

"Hey, things change, our word is not our bond, see ya".

??

Because as much as on the surface this is about the number of CP and the time spent the real issue that underpins all the anger and woe is TRUST.

A senior dev told us something that was not true - there was no need to make that promise in such clear terms but they chose to do so.

A senior CS person did not actually apologise (Gina's post was very carefully & deliberately worded to not be an apology).

How can we trust what they tell us in future?

I know it will be hard to trust ZoS again after their latest statements concerning the conversion of Experience to Champion Points, but I'd still prefer a statement to nothing and nothing is what we have right now.

Although I've been combative on the forum, it is only because I want an answer and because I actually care about the game, I care enough to understand why ZoS can't give us all the Champion Points we are owed right now. It is true that with the Veteran System still in place, granting us access to all of those champion points would create too big of a discrepancy between levels.

So I understand why ZoS changed their initial plans despite the promised made to the community month ago, I am reasonable enough to see that. I hope ZoS is reasonable enough to see our side too and come around with a plan that works both for them and the game and for us who have been playing ESO for months and months.

We need that answer, we need to see their plans changing now, before the release of 1.6. This 30 'free' champion points, they are not a good precedence to a system just being implemented... Right now, that is not unfair to those already at vr1 or above (since the veteran system provides us character progression already), but it is definitely unfair to those not at the veteran ranks... Can you imagine... If you reach vr1 one day after 1.6 is released, you will get no point at all according to ZoS current plan... That alone will create some severe imbalance between older and new players.

EQBallzz · January 2015

Grao wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

On an additional note, dev teams do not set their own agenda. Whatever they are working towards (i.e. wiping VR2 to VR14 in preparation for CP), it would have been set by management.

.. or some technical issue that has made them realise they can't audit what has been done so far and thus can't appropriate the correct amount of CP back tn people who have gained ranks past VR1. Which if true is ludicrous.

Like i said earlier, they've wasted many months of my work trying to build my characters past VR1 with no prior warning so to hell with ZOS. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Your statement will only be true if when 1.7 comes to live and the veteran system is removed, ZoS gives no Champion Point compensation for the experience between Vr1 and vr14.

Thanks for your post, however I suspect you may have misread what I posted so please accept my apologies.

The reason I'm angry, I and lots of other good folk (including yourself no doubt) have spent months building up their main and alts way past VR1 and for what? To be told "we're changing the system and by the way anything levelled further than VR1 will count for nothing kthxbai".

The game itself lacks enough content to be fresh after 9 months and then they pull the above stunt.. no thanks.

I definitely understand your point. I am just choosing to believe ZoS will change position for a more agreeable compromise and give us Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the Veteran Rank when that loss actually occur (likely on update 1.7).

Why am I choosing to believe them again? Because I really enjoy this game. True, we are lacking content atm, but that happens with every MMO, specially those starting, and the content we got to play, I at least found very enjoyable, specially the quests and the graphics of the game.

I tried playing WildStar and I just couldn't stand the questing and even WoW's quests are... Bland and very repetitive. I think ESO did a good job disguising their quest progression with little interesting stories, so for now I think I will stick around. Come 1.7, if ZoS frustrates my expectation (that are not even that high) then it will be the time to pack my bags and maybe look over at WoW again.

It's cool that you have found justification to continue playing (and paying) based on the *hope* that they current plan will be changed but I don't think I will be doing that. I think some of us don't want to continue investing more time and money into a system that will pull the rug out from under us come 1.7.

If they haven't changed course by the time 1.6 releases and make some kind of clear statements to that effect I think I would rather let my account expire and then just come back later if it turns out they changed their minds for 1.7. Not going to continue throwing good money/time after bad when I have little reason to trust ZOS to do the right thing at this point.

They do need to release a statement regarding what will happen come 1.7, hope will only get me so far. It is hope, not foolishness. ^^

The problem is though - lets say they come out this week and go:

"Grao - we assure you that in about 3-4 months once we have tested, released & patched 1.6 and are about to send out 1.7 we will compensate you for the x hundred hours of post level 50 time in the form of some additional CP, we have the numbers."

How based on the current dishonesty could you actually trust that a week before 1.7 drops they wouldn't then come back and say:

"Hey, things change, our word is not our bond, see ya".

??

Because as much as on the surface this is about the number of CP and the time spent the real issue that underpins all the anger and woe is TRUST.

A senior dev told us something that was not true - there was no need to make that promise in such clear terms but they chose to do so.

A senior CS person did not actually apologise (Gina's post was very carefully & deliberately worded to not be an apology).

How can we trust what they tell us in future?

I know it will be hard to trust ZoS again after their latest statements concerning the conversion of Experience to Champion Points, but I'd still prefer a statement to nothing and nothing is what we have right now.

Although I've been combative on the forum, it is only because I want an answer and because I actually care about the game, I care enough to understand why ZoS can't give us all the Champion Points we are owed right now. It is true that with the Veteran System still in place, granting us access to all of those champion points would create too big of a discrepancy between levels.

So I understand why ZoS changed their initial plans despite the promised made to the community month ago, I am reasonable enough to see that. I hope ZoS is reasonable enough to see our side too and come around with a plan that works both for them and the game and for us who have been playing ESO for months and months.

We need that answer, we need to see their plans changing now, before the release of 1.6. This 30 'free' champion points, they are not a good precedence to a system just being implemented... Right now, that is not unfair to those already at vr1 or above (since the veteran system provides us character progression already), but it is definitely unfair to those not at the veteran ranks... Can you imagine... If you reach vr1 one day after 1.6 is released, you will get no point at all according to ZoS current plan... That alone will create some severe imbalance between older and new players.

I'm not as understanding as you. I'm not buying this excuse. There is nobody stopping them from tracking the XP/quests/vet levels (or whatever metric they want to use for conversion to CP) up to the launch of 1.6 and then marking everyone's account with whatever CP equivalent that equates to but then not awarding those points until 1.7 goes live (and the vet levels are removed). That would allow everyone to still have their progress count for something and not overpower players while vet levels and the CS are running in parallel. It's really not that difficult if it's something they wanted/intended to do.

It seems clear they are using this as an excuse to reset the players who have spent the most time so that they can wring out even more subscription time from people who will essentially have to double up on hundreds of hours of progression. I hope that I'm wrong but that's what it looks like to me.

smacx250 · January 2015

As far as I've seen, there hasn't been any conclusive statement about what will happen with XP and CP as of 1.7. And given the fallout of a certain previous forward looking statement, I guess I wouldn't expect one for 1.7, or read too much into it should one be made.

Joejudas · January 2015

yeah it was settled for the time being....we will see going forward...but no one knows and we wont know until later.

badmojo0777b14_ESO · January 2015

i have defended ZOS on many occassions in the last year. i am calm rational adult who prides myself on not NERD RAGING or rage quitting. i can handle not awarding us character points for experience gained past v14 if it unbalances the system. that being said V14s are well within their rights to be furious if all vet toons are rolled back to 50 and awarded 30 points for all. its lazy and unacceptable. we aren't asking for a thousand points, simply some compensation for the effort and time spent leveling from vr1 to vr14. we are NOT in the same place as a brand new vr1, and refuse to be treated as such. even if its only 2-5 points per vet rank, that atleast shows some form of compensation on ZOS's part. ZOS needs to do some explaining and throw us a bone here or they will see ALOT of subscriptions being dropped, no doubt about it.