What happened to " we will track your exp earned " ????( Gina Bruno answered this 12/28/2014)

Kaliki

Guppet wrote: »

I keep seeing this said. If you have ran out of the content you enjoy, that is your issue, not the champion system.

If they gave you 100 extra CP, you would still have no content that you enjoy to do.

Why are you still playing if you have no more content you enjoy?

The fact is, anyone that is still here and still enjoying it, is doing some form of content (or they are not playing at all), that content will award XP, be it currently or after the rebalance of XP awards.

Its about not getting CP for the content we enjoyed, but that doesnt mean I don't enjoy the game now.
But if I want to get CP now I would have to grind, which I don't enjoy. Otherwise I'd just do a few select things which would grant very little CP, which is also fine.

However, the issue remains that they take away most of my XP earned so far and make my time spent in the game worth less than that of other players.

You can twist that around as you like, but deleting progress of player A while rewarding player B is not fair. And spare me the "life's not fair, deal with it" – I am only here to voice my opinion as long as I have game time left and as long as you keep refueling the debate. ;-P

Lettigall

Thank you for getting back to me with clarification, I can completely see where you're coming from now.
In regards to the latest response that you linked, I can see why that would be cause for concern. My understanding of it is that the system may have failed to track XP past 14 (I can't 100% this, as a lot of the Dev/Community team are still out for the holidays). What we can't have lost is the amount of XP gained between 1 and 14, as that's a set amount. If you're VR14, you've got it. I agree that this point could do with some clarification.
In regards to the latter point, we do not have any information at this time that would either prove or disprove that different VRanks will be handled differently. Yes, at this point everyone will be given 30CP, but the power difference between a VR1 and VR14 will remain. How phase 4 will handle a difference in VRanks has not been offered yet.
The point in your response that I most agree with is the potential for CP from content (non-repeatable quests) that a lower VRank will have over a higher VRank. In that regard I'm afraid I have no information, but I will point out that there are a number of repeatable quests and end game content (trials, Undaunted etc.) that lower VRanks do not have access to, or the ability to complete. In completing these, you'll be able to make gains that a lower rank player won't be able to, but will get through quests. Unfortunately I can't say if these will be comparable without having numbers in front of me (which I would love to have access to).
Once the teams are back, I will personally push for more clarification on this one. I know they don't like to post too many specifics, but I will do my best to fight the player corner on this one, as you're the ones that have dedicated yourselves to playing, so it's my job to support you!
I can't make any promises, especially time wise, but I will do what I can to get the thread updated with additional information in the near future.
I hope that goes some way to allaying your concerns, and I apologize for any confusion this has caused. I wish you the best of luck in your adventures, and please don't hesitate to contact us again if there's anything else we can help you with!
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Yesterday I had nice conversation with support and seems devs are keeping them in dark as same as us.

Gilvoth

Guppet wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

And yet a VR 14 will end up with more CP than the Casual, as the CS is based on time played and not content done.

Why is this so hard to understand for you?

If you keep playing as much as you did before, then you will still have more CPs with 1.7.

Then what was the problem to "track XP" if it's time dependent? It's even easier to track time, /played does it for you any time. YOu just need to see what was this number for each character when on Oct 3.
But no, most likely they won't reward me with CP for just being and online and chatting (finding a group) or trading.
I am pretty sure that CP will be rewarded for XP and players who have quests left can and will get it faster.

I have nothing left to do but grind, which I won't do because it's not fun. And I bet they won't scale XP so that for 2 trials(for coffers) and 7 dungeons(for dailies) I will get as much XP as another player would get for a week of questing.
I remember, it would take 1 to 2 days to complete the entire veteran zone. I bet they won't make it so that, say, 9 AA runs will give me as much XP because in this case people will just grind trials and spend almost no efforts and time.

I keep seeing this said. If you have ran out of the content you enjoy, that is your issue, not the champion system.

If they gave you 100 extra CP, you would still have no content that you enjoy to do.

Why are you still playing if you have no more content you enjoy?

The fact is, anyone that is still here and still enjoying it, is doing some form of content (or they are not playing at all), that content will award XP, be it currently or after the rebalance of XP awards.

i have never had any love for the content, eso is a complete backwards setting and description of morrowind where it was suppose to have originated, the devs have no clue what morrowind even is nor her culture or peoples nor history. they seem to be in-love with skyrim and oblivion to the point where morrowind was destroyed and non-existant in eso.
your view of why i am upset with the champion system is completely false and as far from reality as east is from the west. allow me to explain the truth of why i personaly am upset with the rediculas 30 cp


i play eso for the pvp and my love of morrowind, even tho morrowind is non-existant in eso i still seek after her.
so as i pvp i allways try to stay competitive and up to speed with all the other people which is only natural.
since we were told specificly the following

WHAT WE WERE PROMISSED:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

that led me to believe that in order to stay competitive in pvp i needed to finish all i could in the pve area so that i would be prepared for the champion system release.
however this was a lie we were told because

WHAT WE ARE GETTING:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed

this is unfair, unpolished and unwanted and has nothing to do with what you mentioned and has Everything to do with being forced into making a new character in order to be competitive and fair in the new update coming in just a few weeks destroys all the work i did on the v14 character i have.

if the quests and matterial was infact repeatable it would not be an issue and no one would be complaining.

Merlin13KAGL

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

i have all but 1 trade skill maxed and i am vr7, so that for sure makes me equal to a vr14 with no trade skills..... THEY ARE TWO SEPERATE THINGS....

trade skills have their own experience- i maxed it. level grinding has its own experience level, which veteran ranks are attached to and are to be replaced by CPs- i don't have it maxed. the mere fact that the character progression isn't maxed MAKES me unequal to a VR14. if you want to stand around shooting the bull or crafting, thats on you. if you want to level and work towards character progression (the numbers that make you kill faster) thats on you as well. neglect either and that is on you.... its all equal but they are completely separate systems.

TL;DR, eh, @ahstin2001nub18_ESO‌ ? Perhaps you should follow the whole thread and it would make more sense.

No one, save you, is speaking of trade skills.

The complaint (I'll summarize for you) involves the 100's more hours put in by some than by others beyond VR14.

The complaint, while note entirely invalid, will probably not see any change come to pass.

There was no grandfathered Undaunted Rep.

There was no bonus to Master Enchanters when they revamped the crafting progression. (Yeah, that's a trade skill, but included here strictly for example.)

There is an obvious difference between time spent /emoting and time performing in game functions. Common sense indicates that most are probably making good use of their time. Not everyone's power leveling, not everyone's RPing a minute for minute daily routine. Give me a break.

Some people have more levels, more XP's, more overall XP's (all alts), and more time in game. Will they see anything from it?

No one knows.

To be honest, I'm trying to figure out wth your complaint is, exactly?

Guppet

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

And yet a VR 14 will end up with more CP than the Casual, as the CS is based on time played and not content done.

Why is this so hard to understand for you?

If you keep playing as much as you did before, then you will still have more CPs with 1.7.

Then what was the problem to "track XP" if it's time dependent? It's even easier to track time, /played does it for you any time. YOu just need to see what was this number for each character when on Oct 3.
But no, most likely they won't reward me with CP for just being and online and chatting (finding a group) or trading.
I am pretty sure that CP will be rewarded for XP and players who have quests left can and will get it faster.

I have nothing left to do but grind, which I won't do because it's not fun. And I bet they won't scale XP so that for 2 trials(for coffers) and 7 dungeons(for dailies) I will get as much XP as another player would get for a week of questing.
I remember, it would take 1 to 2 days to complete the entire veteran zone. I bet they won't make it so that, say, 9 AA runs will give me as much XP because in this case people will just grind trials and spend almost no efforts and time.

I keep seeing this said. If you have ran out of the content you enjoy, that is your issue, not the champion system.

If they gave you 100 extra CP, you would still have no content that you enjoy to do.

Why are you still playing if you have no more content you enjoy?

The fact is, anyone that is still here and still enjoying it, is doing some form of content (or they are not playing at all), that content will award XP, be it currently or after the rebalance of XP awards.

i have never had any love for the content, eso is a complete backwards setting and description of morrowind where it was suppose to have originated, the devs have no clue what morrowind even is nor her culture or peoples nor history. they seem to be in-love with skyrim and oblivion to the point where morrowind was destroyed and non-existant in eso.
your view of why i am upset with the champion system is completely false and as far from reality as east is from the west. allow me to explain the truth of why i personaly am upset with the rediculas 30 cp


i play eso for the pvp and my love of morrowind, even tho morrowind is non-existant in eso i still seek after her.
so as i pvp i allways try to stay competitive and up to speed with all the other people which is only natural.
since we were told specificly the following

WHAT WE WERE PROMISSED:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

that led me to believe that in order to stay competitive in pvp i needed to finish all i could in the pve area so that i would be prepared for the champion system release.
however this was a lie we were told because

WHAT WE ARE GETTING:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed

this is unfair, unpolished and unwanted and has nothing to do with what you mentioned and has Everything to do with being forced into making a new character in order to be competitive and fair in the new update coming in just a few weeks destroys all the work i did on the v14 character i have.

if the quests and matterial was infact repeatable it would not be an issue and no one would be complaining.

But if the only thing you are here for is PVP (Morowwind is not here), surly you disliked doing cadwells silver and gold. So you would probably have preferred not to do it, but felt the need, as it was quicker XP than PVP. That reeks of "I had to go up a hill backwards in the snow, so everyone must".

Removing it is better for future players like yourself.

So the content you actually enjoy is still available to you (PVP) and they have said they are going to rebalance its XP gains.

So your actually upset because you assume they will not balance the XP correctly, you assume. You also assume that if they get the balance wrong, it will be detrimental to your play style. They could just as easily screw it up the opposite way and it end up with PVP awarding more than questing. You know nothing of the rebalance till it happens.

Gilvoth

Guppet wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

And yet a VR 14 will end up with more CP than the Casual, as the CS is based on time played and not content done.

Why is this so hard to understand for you?

If you keep playing as much as you did before, then you will still have more CPs with 1.7.

Then what was the problem to "track XP" if it's time dependent? It's even easier to track time, /played does it for you any time. YOu just need to see what was this number for each character when on Oct 3.
But no, most likely they won't reward me with CP for just being and online and chatting (finding a group) or trading.
I am pretty sure that CP will be rewarded for XP and players who have quests left can and will get it faster.

I have nothing left to do but grind, which I won't do because it's not fun. And I bet they won't scale XP so that for 2 trials(for coffers) and 7 dungeons(for dailies) I will get as much XP as another player would get for a week of questing.
I remember, it would take 1 to 2 days to complete the entire veteran zone. I bet they won't make it so that, say, 9 AA runs will give me as much XP because in this case people will just grind trials and spend almost no efforts and time.

I keep seeing this said. If you have ran out of the content you enjoy, that is your issue, not the champion system.

If they gave you 100 extra CP, you would still have no content that you enjoy to do.

Why are you still playing if you have no more content you enjoy?

The fact is, anyone that is still here and still enjoying it, is doing some form of content (or they are not playing at all), that content will award XP, be it currently or after the rebalance of XP awards.

i have never had any love for the content, eso is a complete backwards setting and description of morrowind where it was suppose to have originated, the devs have no clue what morrowind even is nor her culture or peoples nor history. they seem to be in-love with skyrim and oblivion to the point where morrowind was destroyed and non-existant in eso.
your view of why i am upset with the champion system is completely false and as far from reality as east is from the west. allow me to explain the truth of why i personaly am upset with the rediculas 30 cp


i play eso for the pvp and my love of morrowind, even tho morrowind is non-existant in eso i still seek after her.
so as i pvp i allways try to stay competitive and up to speed with all the other people which is only natural.
since we were told specificly the following

WHAT WE WERE PROMISSED:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

that led me to believe that in order to stay competitive in pvp i needed to finish all i could in the pve area so that i would be prepared for the champion system release.
however this was a lie we were told because

WHAT WE ARE GETTING:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed

this is unfair, unpolished and unwanted and has nothing to do with what you mentioned and has Everything to do with being forced into making a new character in order to be competitive and fair in the new update coming in just a few weeks destroys all the work i did on the v14 character i have.

if the quests and matterial was infact repeatable it would not be an issue and no one would be complaining.

But if the only thing you are here for is PVP (Morowwind is not here), surly you disliked doing cadwells silver and gold. So you would probably have preferred not to do it, but felt the need, as it was quicker XP than PVP. That reeks of "I had to go up a hill backwards in the snow, so everyone must".

Removing it is better for future players like yourself.

So the content you actually enjoy is still available to you (PVP) and they have said they are going to rebalance its XP gains.

So your actually upset because you assume they will not balance the XP correctly, you assume. You also assume that if they get the balance wrong, it will be detrimental to your play style. They could just as easily screw it up the opposite way and it end up with PVP awarding more than questing. You know nothing of the rebalance till it happens.

wrong, i am a nightblade so i would NOT be getting new cp, basicly everything you just said is totaly not even in view of the truth of the matters involved. i dont wish to write a full 112 page explanation of it so i will surfice to just state the following and will not be responding any further to your comment

" i spend almost my entire time in pvp and completed ALL of the quests in all 3 alliances to stay competitive in pvp, with the 30 champion points being given to my v14 stamina build nightblade i will not be able to keep up with lower level people who are able to do the quests in all 3 alliances and many other things that i allready completed and can not complete again due to us having been lied to. so in order to stay competitive in pvp i am forced to make the decision to make a new character or leave eso."

Guppet

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

And yet a VR 14 will end up with more CP than the Casual, as the CS is based on time played and not content done.

Why is this so hard to understand for you?

If you keep playing as much as you did before, then you will still have more CPs with 1.7.

Then what was the problem to "track XP" if it's time dependent? It's even easier to track time, /played does it for you any time. YOu just need to see what was this number for each character when on Oct 3.
But no, most likely they won't reward me with CP for just being and online and chatting (finding a group) or trading.
I am pretty sure that CP will be rewarded for XP and players who have quests left can and will get it faster.

I have nothing left to do but grind, which I won't do because it's not fun. And I bet they won't scale XP so that for 2 trials(for coffers) and 7 dungeons(for dailies) I will get as much XP as another player would get for a week of questing.
I remember, it would take 1 to 2 days to complete the entire veteran zone. I bet they won't make it so that, say, 9 AA runs will give me as much XP because in this case people will just grind trials and spend almost no efforts and time.

I keep seeing this said. If you have ran out of the content you enjoy, that is your issue, not the champion system.

If they gave you 100 extra CP, you would still have no content that you enjoy to do.

Why are you still playing if you have no more content you enjoy?

The fact is, anyone that is still here and still enjoying it, is doing some form of content (or they are not playing at all), that content will award XP, be it currently or after the rebalance of XP awards.

i have never had any love for the content, eso is a complete backwards setting and description of morrowind where it was suppose to have originated, the devs have no clue what morrowind even is nor her culture or peoples nor history. they seem to be in-love with skyrim and oblivion to the point where morrowind was destroyed and non-existant in eso.
your view of why i am upset with the champion system is completely false and as far from reality as east is from the west. allow me to explain the truth of why i personaly am upset with the rediculas 30 cp


i play eso for the pvp and my love of morrowind, even tho morrowind is non-existant in eso i still seek after her.
so as i pvp i allways try to stay competitive and up to speed with all the other people which is only natural.
since we were told specificly the following

WHAT WE WERE PROMISSED:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

that led me to believe that in order to stay competitive in pvp i needed to finish all i could in the pve area so that i would be prepared for the champion system release.
however this was a lie we were told because

WHAT WE ARE GETTING:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed

this is unfair, unpolished and unwanted and has nothing to do with what you mentioned and has Everything to do with being forced into making a new character in order to be competitive and fair in the new update coming in just a few weeks destroys all the work i did on the v14 character i have.

if the quests and matterial was infact repeatable it would not be an issue and no one would be complaining.

But if the only thing you are here for is PVP (Morowwind is not here), surly you disliked doing cadwells silver and gold. So you would probably have preferred not to do it, but felt the need, as it was quicker XP than PVP. That reeks of "I had to go up a hill backwards in the snow, so everyone must".

Removing it is better for future players like yourself.

So the content you actually enjoy is still available to you (PVP) and they have said they are going to rebalance its XP gains.

So your actually upset because you assume they will not balance the XP correctly, you assume. You also assume that if they get the balance wrong, it will be detrimental to your play style. They could just as easily screw it up the opposite way and it end up with PVP awarding more than questing. You know nothing of the rebalance till it happens.

wrong, i am a nightblade so i would NOT be getting new cp, basicly everything you just said is totaly not even in view of the truth of the matters involved. i dont wish to write a full 112 page explanation of it so i will surfice to just state the following and will not be responding any further to your comment

" i spend almost my entire time in pvp and completed ALL of the quests in all 3 alliances to stay competitive in pvp, with the 30 champion points being given to my v14 stamina build nightblade i will not be able to keep up with lower level people who are able to do the quests in all 3 alliances and many other things that i allready completed and can not complete again due to us having been lied to. so in order to stay competitive in pvp i am forced to make the decision to make a new character or leave eso."

Wow it really sounds like you did not read one word of what you quoted from myself, as you basically just confirmed every last thing I had said lol. I don't blame you for not responding any further, it would only be detrimental to your argument, such as it is lol.

knightblaster

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Actually, even WoW, the pinnacle *cough* of a vertical progression system, doesn't take power from existing characters. In all of Azeroth - up to the new expansion's zone - you'll remain the demigod you used to be. Only if you buy it and set foot into new lands, you'll have to start anew.

This is true, but thy manage it both by (1) catch-up systems (which were themselves unpopular with the more advanced players, but were done anyway) and (2) periodic resets with expansions where everyone goes to the starting line again. Both seem like a better approach than this one, even though the design of this game is very different.

Pathfinder

knightblaster wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Actually, even WoW, the pinnacle *cough* of a vertical progression system, doesn't take power from existing characters. In all of Azeroth - up to the new expansion's zone - you'll remain the demigod you used to be. Only if you buy it and set foot into new lands, you'll have to start anew.

This is true, but thy manage it both by (1) catch-up systems (which were themselves unpopular with the more advanced players, but were done anyway) and (2) periodic resets with expansions where everyone goes to the starting line again. Both seem like a better approach than this one, even though the design of this game is very different.

I said this in a different thread, but ZOS should just reset everyone's toons to lv0 and stick us back in a Cold Harbor cell. Blame it on Molag Bal and be done with it.

AngryNord

Pathfinder wrote: »

knightblaster wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Actually, even WoW, the pinnacle *cough* of a vertical progression system, doesn't take power from existing characters. In all of Azeroth - up to the new expansion's zone - you'll remain the demigod you used to be. Only if you buy it and set foot into new lands, you'll have to start anew.

This is true, but thy manage it both by (1) catch-up systems (which were themselves unpopular with the more advanced players, but were done anyway) and (2) periodic resets with expansions where everyone goes to the starting line again. Both seem like a better approach than this one, even though the design of this game is very different.

I said this in a different thread, but ZOS should just reset everyone's toons to lv0 and stick us back in a Cold Harbor cell. Blame it on Molag Bal and be done with it.

That would cause so many unsubs it'd most likely be the end of this game

Gidorick

Pathfinder wrote: »

knightblaster wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Actually, even WoW, the pinnacle *cough* of a vertical progression system, doesn't take power from existing characters. In all of Azeroth - up to the new expansion's zone - you'll remain the demigod you used to be. Only if you buy it and set foot into new lands, you'll have to start anew.

This is true, but thy manage it both by (1) catch-up systems (which were themselves unpopular with the more advanced players, but were done anyway) and (2) periodic resets with expansions where everyone goes to the starting line again. Both seem like a better approach than this one, even though the design of this game is very different.

I said this in a different thread, but ZOS should just reset everyone's toons to lv0 and stick us back in a Cold Harbor cell. Blame it on Molag Bal and be done with it.

That's a bit dramatic.

knightblaster

Gidorick wrote: »

Pathfinder wrote: »

knightblaster wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Actually, even WoW, the pinnacle *cough* of a vertical progression system, doesn't take power from existing characters. In all of Azeroth - up to the new expansion's zone - you'll remain the demigod you used to be. Only if you buy it and set foot into new lands, you'll have to start anew.

This is true, but thy manage it both by (1) catch-up systems (which were themselves unpopular with the more advanced players, but were done anyway) and (2) periodic resets with expansions where everyone goes to the starting line again. Both seem like a better approach than this one, even though the design of this game is very different.

I said this in a different thread, but ZOS should just reset everyone's toons to lv0 and stick us back in a Cold Harbor cell. Blame it on Molag Bal and be done with it.

That's a bit dramatic.

Right. The "resets" I have seen in other games come along organically with expansions that increase level cap, introduce new gear and skills and so on. It is much easier to swallow there -- although I do remember players grousing when WoW's first expac was released that their top level gear was being replaced quickly in the expac which "trivialized their effort". Of course, they were right -- that was precisely what was happening. But the problem in these games where vertical progression is so intense and meaningful (as compared to, say, EVE, where it's more horizontal), is that unless you have periodic restarts like that, the game becomes very unappetizing for new players due to the power gap (especially in PvP but also in PvE unless there are catch-ups in place).

Of course, it only works well if it is done organically, with the introduction of new levels and content and so on, so that it really is a new start. That's still annoying to some players, but it's generally more acceptable to them than something like this, where there is no new content (at least not significant amounts of it), but a kind of reset happening anyway. The need for periodic resets is clear in a game of this type, but the context in which they come has to include all the other elements of a real new start, complete with content that all players can use to advance. Outside of that context, players will feel like they are simply being robbed.

To address gap issues outside of a real reset, a catch-up mechanism could be employed in lieu of what they are doing here. In other words, lower VR players could earn XP faster in silver/gold to catch up to the higher VR players faster, and close the gap that way without taking anything away from the higher VR players in the interim. This would address the gap issue without completely alienating the high VR players. Yes, some would still grouse about "welfare XP" and "not being fair that it doesn't take as long as it did for me, I put in the work", and so on, and that's natural, but still this would be more acceptable to most than the planned system.

I think ZOS really needs to put more thought into this, and I say this as a player who hasn't played for a few months, does not have a VR14, and would benefit from the system as currently proposed personally.

Enodoc

Lettigall wrote: »

Thank you for getting back to me with clarification, I can completely see where you're coming from now.
In regards to the latest response that you linked, I can see why that would be cause for concern. My understanding of it is that the system may have failed to track XP past 14 (I can't 100% this, as a lot of the Dev/Community team are still out for the holidays). What we can't have lost is the amount of XP gained between 1 and 14, as that's a set amount. If you're VR14, you've got it. I agree that this point could do with some clarification.
In regards to the latter point, we do not have any information at this time that would either prove or disprove that different VRanks will be handled differently. Yes, at this point everyone will be given 30CP, but the power difference between a VR1 and VR14 will remain. How phase 4 will handle a difference in VRanks has not been offered yet.
The point in your response that I most agree with is the potential for CP from content (non-repeatable quests) that a lower VRank will have over a higher VRank. In that regard I'm afraid I have no information, but I will point out that there are a number of repeatable quests and end game content (trials, Undaunted etc.) that lower VRanks do not have access to, or the ability to complete. In completing these, you'll be able to make gains that a lower rank player won't be able to, but will get through quests. Unfortunately I can't say if these will be comparable without having numbers in front of me (which I would love to have access to).
Once the teams are back, I will personally push for more clarification on this one. I know they don't like to post too many specifics, but I will do my best to fight the player corner on this one, as you're the ones that have dedicated yourselves to playing, so it's my job to support you!
I can't make any promises, especially time wise, but I will do what I can to get the thread updated with additional information in the near future.
I hope that goes some way to allaying your concerns, and I apologize for any confusion this has caused. I wish you the best of luck in your adventures, and please don't hesitate to contact us again if there's anything else we can help you with!
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Yesterday I had nice conversation with support and seems devs are keeping them in dark as same as us.

Lloyd seems to understand where we're coming from... I think.

Just to draw on this bit that he said:
The point in your response that I most agree with is the potential for CP from content (non-repeatable quests) that a lower VRank will have over a higher VRank. In that regard I'm afraid I have no information, but I will point out that there are a number of repeatable quests and end game content (trials, Undaunted etc.) that lower VRanks do not have access to, or the ability to complete.
All the existing repeatable content (Trials, Undaunted, Craglorn) is for groups, while the non-repeatable quests are solo content. Therefore they are not comparable.

Grao

.

Lettigall wrote: »

Thank you for getting back to me with clarification, I can completely see where you're coming from now.
In regards to the latest response that you linked, I can see why that would be cause for concern. My understanding of it is that the system may have failed to track XP past 14 (I can't 100% this, as a lot of the Dev/Community team are still out for the holidays). What we can't have lost is the amount of XP gained between 1 and 14, as that's a set amount. If you're VR14, you've got it. I agree that this point could do with some clarification.
In regards to the latter point, we do not have any information at this time that would either prove or disprove that different VRanks will be handled differently. Yes, at this point everyone will be given 30CP, but the power difference between a VR1 and VR14 will remain. How phase 4 will handle a difference in VRanks has not been offered yet.
The point in your response that I most agree with is the potential for CP from content (non-repeatable quests) that a lower VRank will have over a higher VRank. In that regard I'm afraid I have no information, but I will point out that there are a number of repeatable quests and end game content (trials, Undaunted etc.) that lower VRanks do not have access to, or the ability to complete. In completing these, you'll be able to make gains that a lower rank player won't be able to, but will get through quests. Unfortunately I can't say if these will be comparable without having numbers in front of me (which I would love to have access to).
Once the teams are back, I will personally push for more clarification on this one. I know they don't like to post too many specifics, but I will do my best to fight the player corner on this one, as you're the ones that have dedicated yourselves to playing, so it's my job to support you!
I can't make any promises, especially time wise, but I will do what I can to get the thread updated with additional information in the near future.
I hope that goes some way to allaying your concerns, and I apologize for any confusion this has caused. I wish you the best of luck in your adventures, and please don't hesitate to contact us again if there's anything else we can help you with!
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Yesterday I had nice conversation with support and seems devs are keeping them in dark as same as us.

Yup, I had a long chat with Lloyd yesterday as well. Apparently this bomb was pushed for him to handle, poor guy. He has as little information as we do which is very unsatisfying and totally not his fault.

What I think will happen if ZoS doesn't give in and apply the rules of the champion system as they were meant to be:

1.6 - Any account with a veteran rank character will receive 30 CPs independent of progression within the current system; independent of exp.

Conjecture: Why is ZoS doing this? Because they want to bring the vr1 power as close as possible to the power of the vr14. They are balancing us out as much as possible, as discreetly as they managed.

1.7 - The end of the veteran system, hail the Champion System.

Conjecture: With vet ranks gone the attribute points given to us as rewards for leveling in the Vranks will also be removed. We will all be given 49 (or 50) attribute points at max level. That will remove any left over difference between the now gone vr1s and vr14s, we will all be the same (except for those that managed to grind more champion points in between 1.6 and 1.7)

Gear will also be rescaled at this point as rank requirements will be gone. How this will work is still vague, but it is obvious armor alone will not maintain the difference in power between those that used to be vr1s and those that used to be vr14s.

If you think about it, it is quite brilliant! Right now they say vr14s will still be stronger then vr1s and therefore we can't complain that vr1s and vr14s are getting the same amount of CPs. And when 1.7 drops ZoS can simply say "Well, you all knew the veteran system was being removed. We already awarded CPs to those that had enough experience to earn them."

And with such a simple ploy they manage to reset the system to 0, or as close to 0 as they dare to attempt.

Grao

Pathfinder wrote: »

knightblaster wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Actually, even WoW, the pinnacle *cough* of a vertical progression system, doesn't take power from existing characters. In all of Azeroth - up to the new expansion's zone - you'll remain the demigod you used to be. Only if you buy it and set foot into new lands, you'll have to start anew.

This is true, but thy manage it both by (1) catch-up systems (which were themselves unpopular with the more advanced players, but were done anyway) and (2) periodic resets with expansions where everyone goes to the starting line again. Both seem like a better approach than this one, even though the design of this game is very different.

I said this in a different thread, but ZOS should just reset everyone's toons to lv0 and stick us back in a Cold Harbor cell. Blame it on Molag Bal and be done with it.

Sadly, you are closer to the truth then everyone realizes. Of course ZoS won't be so blunt, but they are resetting our characters as much as they dare to do, hoping not to incur on the wrath of their player base.

xaraan

XGP wrote: »

Hello all,

The sole reason why we do Quests is to level up our skill lines, our vet ranks, and our skills to morph. I think everyone that has done all the quests in the game and finished everything has been rewarded with skill points, atribution points, dye colors, and the titles. These's where the reasons for completeing the game for those mile stones and rewards. You can complain about every little detail but it will not change the overall outcome. Be glad that we are getting Champion points.

I my self have completed most of the game content. But you guys are also missing the one importand thing even if you complete everything now and don't have much to do they will release more content with more dyes more achivements more quests for you to level. So just be patient more will come when its supposed to.

Don't know why people keep saying stuff like this.

You do realize that someone doing quests after CP comes out gets all that PLUS CP right? I do not. I have 5 vets, that's 65m xp worth of quests that I cannot repeat or earn again (and once 1.7 is out, even vet levels will be taken away and all that xp really will be for nothing). I do not like pvp. Dailies are ok, but mostly group related and not enough to earn as much as questing. I do not want to grind. This leaves me with two (and a half with a v5 I have) character slots of quests to earn CP with.

How do people not understand that once the CP system is fully in place after 1.7 that the xp is essentially wasted?? If a v1 player never played from now until june and neither did I with my 5 v14s, we would be the same except for a few extra skill points from doing the quest lines that they can jump in and do - once they do them - they will have the same points PLUS CP from the xp of doing them (that's 13m+ xp from doing the zones unless you skip a lot of stuff). You can get through that in a couple weeks if you really wanted to. Do you know how much slower someone in my position would earn points waiting for members to get online to do a group dungeon daily? and waiting for months to go by when zos puts out new content? (They released one group content zone last year and two vet dungeons last year - that's the only new content they put out and it is all group based).

xaraan

Lettigall wrote: »

Thank you for getting back to me with clarification, I can completely see where you're coming from now.
In regards to the latest response that you linked, I can see why that would be cause for concern. My understanding of it is that the system may have failed to track XP past 14 (I can't 100% this, as a lot of the Dev/Community team are still out for the holidays). What we can't have lost is the amount of XP gained between 1 and 14, as that's a set amount. If you're VR14, you've got it. I agree that this point could do with some clarification.
In regards to the latter point, we do not have any information at this time that would either prove or disprove that different VRanks will be handled differently. Yes, at this point everyone will be given 30CP, but the power difference between a VR1 and VR14 will remain. How phase 4 will handle a difference in VRanks has not been offered yet.
The point in your response that I most agree with is the potential for CP from content (non-repeatable quests) that a lower VRank will have over a higher VRank. In that regard I'm afraid I have no information, but I will point out that there are a number of repeatable quests and end game content (trials, Undaunted etc.) that lower VRanks do not have access to, or the ability to complete. In completing these, you'll be able to make gains that a lower rank player won't be able to, but will get through quests. Unfortunately I can't say if these will be comparable without having numbers in front of me (which I would love to have access to).
Once the teams are back, I will personally push for more clarification on this one. I know they don't like to post too many specifics, but I will do my best to fight the player corner on this one, as you're the ones that have dedicated yourselves to playing, so it's my job to support you!
I can't make any promises, especially time wise, but I will do what I can to get the thread updated with additional information in the near future.
I hope that goes some way to allaying your concerns, and I apologize for any confusion this has caused. I wish you the best of luck in your adventures, and please don't hesitate to contact us again if there's anything else we can help you with!
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Yesterday I had nice conversation with support and seems devs are keeping them in dark as same as us.

This is all well and good, but Gina kind of doubled down on the "no more CP coming" already, even when vet levels are removed. That's what causing the problem.

And frankly, the whole "we have access to content a v1 doesn't" is BS. First of all, they can do all undaunted - they scale to level and you can do them whatever level you want. The only thing they really can't do is "be carried" since they won't earn xp if they partner up with people more than 4 levels higher than them, as long as they avoid that they can earn xp virtually any way we can.

Plus, telling me I have to wait for 3 other people or 11 other people to earn XP when a v1 can jump on solo and do quests and earn a sht-ton of xp relatively quickly is BS as well. (Heck, even all the new content added since launch has all been group based).

The fact is, a new vet has the entire game of content ahead of them and a variety of ways to earn XP/CP. A v14 does not.

xaraan

I really think if ZoS would at least reset silver/gold quests (even if they wait until 1.7) for everyone it would solve a lot of this. Sure, some might be mad that the xp they already earned is for naught, but at least everyone will be on the same starting point and be able to earn future points the same way.

Darlgon

Not that I agree.. but..

I have had more than one MMO in the past 15 years tell the players: "You used the benefits of X that you earned for the current system between when you got them and when it is being replaced. Now, we have a new system, so you will just have to live with it."

None of those received a popular reaction with players, but the MMOs continue to exist to this day. Dont be surprised if we end up with that here.

pillabe

Darlgon wrote: »

Not that I agree.. but..

I have had more than one MMO in the past 15 years tell the players: "You used the benefits of X that you earned for the current system between when you got them and when it is being replaced. Now, we have a new system, so you will just have to live with it."

None of those received a popular reaction with players, but the MMOs continue to exist to this day. Dont be surprised if we end up with that here.

How many times were you told, "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP..."?

Darlgon

pillabe wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Not that I agree.. but..

I have had more than one MMO in the past 15 years tell the players: "You used the benefits of X that you earned for the current system between when you got them and when it is being replaced. Now, we have a new system, so you will just have to live with it."

None of those received a popular reaction with players, but the MMOs continue to exist to this day. Dont be surprised if we end up with that here.

How many times were you told, "Continue to play! We are tracking your XP..."?

Every time.. because you continued to use the benefits and even power ups/ level ups of the old system until the new system appeared.

pillabe

Darlgon wrote: »

Every time.. because you continued to use the benefits and even power ups/ level ups of the old system until the new system appeared.

Except we were told our XP was being tracked so it could carry over to the new system. You know that. You're just being a troll now.

Kevinmon

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap.

Sindala

Kevinmon wrote: »

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap.

Is that incase we forgot what she said....you know cos it's only be re-posted about 400 times in this same thread.

Darlgon

pillabe wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Every time.. because you continued to use the benefits and even power ups/ level ups of the old system until the new system appeared.

Except we were told our XP was being tracked so it could carry over to the new system. You know that. You're just being a troll now.

Nope your trolling, because I was referencing other game experience that I was talking about in what you first quoted.. you were the one who posted and keeps holding to what ZoS has said is no longer correct and has been changed.

EQBallzz

Guppet wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

And yet a VR 14 will end up with more CP than the Casual, as the CS is based on time played and not content done.

Why is this so hard to understand for you?

If you keep playing as much as you did before, then you will still have more CPs with 1.7.

Then what was the problem to "track XP" if it's time dependent? It's even easier to track time, /played does it for you any time. YOu just need to see what was this number for each character when on Oct 3.
But no, most likely they won't reward me with CP for just being and online and chatting (finding a group) or trading.
I am pretty sure that CP will be rewarded for XP and players who have quests left can and will get it faster.

I have nothing left to do but grind, which I won't do because it's not fun. And I bet they won't scale XP so that for 2 trials(for coffers) and 7 dungeons(for dailies) I will get as much XP as another player would get for a week of questing.
I remember, it would take 1 to 2 days to complete the entire veteran zone. I bet they won't make it so that, say, 9 AA runs will give me as much XP because in this case people will just grind trials and spend almost no efforts and time.

I keep seeing this said. If you have ran out of the content you enjoy, that is your issue, not the champion system.

If they gave you 100 extra CP, you would still have no content that you enjoy to do.

Why are you still playing if you have no more content you enjoy?

The fact is, anyone that is still here and still enjoying it, is doing some form of content (or they are not playing at all), that content will award XP, be it currently or after the rebalance of XP awards.

It's not a matter of having "no more content you enjoy". It's having no more XP-rich content left. If someone does writs, daily pledge and dungeons or harvesting or crafting. They may enjoy all that but the XP gained for those activities is minuscule compared to silver/gold content. If CP was awarded for those at least people would have a reasonable base of CP to start with if they weren't interested in grinding after CS goes live so gaining CP at a slower rate wouldn't matter as much.

Sindala

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Zenimax offices on their first day back thou.
The return of big boss from his Caribbean cruise with his first words..."What the **** happened while I was away, I told you lot NOT to say anything!!".
Dear god it's a s*** storm on every forum!!!.


Lol.

BRogueNZ

The more I read the less I care.

pillabe

Darlgon wrote: »

Nope your trolling, because I was referencing other game experience that I was talking about in what you first quoted.. you were the one who posted and keeps holding to what ZoS has said is no longer correct and has been changed.

*You're

Its been changed and is no longer correct. What, did they have their fingers crossed when they said it?

Of course I expect them to follow through on what they said. That is what this thread is about.

Full yet?

JKorr

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

And yet a VR 14 will end up with more CP than the Casual, as the CS is based on time played and not content done.

Why is this so hard to understand for you?

If you keep playing as much as you did before, then you will still have more CPs with 1.7.

Then what was the problem to "track XP" if it's time dependent? It's even easier to track time, /played does it for you any time. YOu just need to see what was this number for each character when on Oct 3.
But no, most likely they won't reward me with CP for just being and online and chatting (finding a group) or trading.
I am pretty sure that CP will be rewarded for XP and players who have quests left can and will get it faster.

I have nothing left to do but grind, which I won't do because it's not fun. And I bet they won't scale XP so that for 2 trials(for coffers) and 7 dungeons(for dailies) I will get as much XP as another player would get for a week of questing.
I remember, it would take 1 to 2 days to complete the entire veteran zone. I bet they won't make it so that, say, 9 AA runs will give me as much XP because in this case people will just grind trials and spend almost no efforts and time.

I keep seeing this said. If you have ran out of the content you enjoy, that is your issue, not the champion system.

If they gave you 100 extra CP, you would still have no content that you enjoy to do.

Why are you still playing if you have no more content you enjoy?

The fact is, anyone that is still here and still enjoying it, is doing some form of content (or they are not playing at all), that content will award XP, be it currently or after the rebalance of XP awards.

i have never had any love for the content, eso is a complete backwards setting and description of morrowind where it was suppose to have originated, the devs have no clue what morrowind even is nor her culture or peoples nor history. they seem to be in-love with skyrim and oblivion to the point where morrowind was destroyed and non-existant in eso.
your view of why i am upset with the champion system is completely false and as far from reality as east is from the west. allow me to explain the truth of why i personaly am upset with the rediculas 30 cp


i play eso for the pvp and my love of morrowind, even tho morrowind is non-existant in eso i still seek after her.
so as i pvp i allways try to stay competitive and up to speed with all the other people which is only natural.
since we were told specificly the following

WHAT WE WERE PROMISSED:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »
Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

that led me to believe that in order to stay competitive in pvp i needed to finish all i could in the pve area so that i would be prepared for the champion system release.
however this was a lie we were told because

WHAT WE ARE GETTING:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed

this is unfair, unpolished and unwanted and has nothing to do with what you mentioned and has Everything to do with being forced into making a new character in order to be competitive and fair in the new update coming in just a few weeks destroys all the work i did on the v14 character i have.

if the quests and matterial was infact repeatable it would not be an issue and no one would be complaining.

That first quote from Maria;
In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Where does anything in the first quote say "We have set this in place permanently because we are finished with it and know it works."?

They try to listen to the people who want information about what they are working on/content in process. That kind of implies that they will be giving out information that isn't set in stone or final. When they do, people assume the information IS final, and when it has to be changed after the devs work with it and see what the players are doing, the ones who assumed it was final get upset, threaten to unsub, try to get everyone worked up, or instigate a forum "revolution".

How can you tell whether you will still be competitive in pvp or not? Are they making all the vr14 gear go away? Nerfing any of the skills for vr14s that won't be nerfed for lower level players?