What happened to " we will track your exp earned " ????( Gina Bruno answered this 12/28/2014)

Kraven

Darlgon wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

Are you suggesting that anyone who has a V14 or has an issue with this is not a part of the player base? Are you suggesting that the 4-5 of you who have no issue and blindly support the decision are the only player base that matters? Are you suggesting that players should not speak up about their disdain for an underhanded trick?

Are you suggesting that the people who have VR14s are the sole representatives of the playerbase? In that case, you dont speak for me (and my 55 days/21 hours of playtime).

There has to be a middle ground, and ultimately, all these "the sky is falling because ZoS is giving out 30 CP" threads are based on a LOT of player speculation and interpretation of a FEW words from ZoS. How about letting this die until we get the Dev Diaries and our hands on the PTS before running out the pitchforks and tar?

At which point have I spoken for anyone? Or at any point discounted anyone else's opinion on this or any subject? Where as on the other hand telling a group of people, any group, "Don't call yourselves a player base." is dismissive and short sighted.

There are many different types of players in MMOs, they don't always in fact very rarely play the same way or put the same importance on certain aspects of the games they're playing. Welcome to online gaming. I don't represent anyone's views but my own, and I don't claim to, but if you think I'm the only one who shares similar concerns then you're kidding yourself.

People are leaving the game dropping subs left and right. The "wait and see" approach may not be the brightest idea when while you're waiting what you are seeing is waves of people leaving. Whether due to CP30, Broken PvP, lack of new PvP content, lack of endgame content, distrust in developers or company practices.

Speculation? Most of the issue comes directly from words told to us by ZO. It's not speculation it's outright concern for a poor decision and you suggest "Oh just sit by, say and do nothing! I'm sure it will change on it's own if everyone just accepts it."

The uproar is being caused by statements made by ZO and then after a month of such concerns being posted all over the forums and outside media. After a month of people claiming daily they've cancelled subs there is no word at all to address these concerns. Wait and see? Some of us have been waiting and seeing for nearly 2 years now. What we're seeing is a trend of BS that is disturbing.

Kraven

Winnower wrote: »

I disagree vehemently with the current "30 CP and a mule" plans, but I've stated my position strongly previously. There are lots (LOTS) of people who also disagree, even if they don't post so in any threads on the forums. Thank goodness there are some regular forum posters continuing the discussion.

There are a number of people in the two real (read: not trade) guilds I'm in who have not logged in since December 19th/20th. I waited until after the holidays were over to start inquiring into the lack of presence - i'm talking about 30-40 folks here (I've been able to hear responses on about half), and over 90% of them so far (don't have responses on all of them) do not have an in-game presence because of this situation.

Most of these people have already unsubbed - their future presence may depend on what happens with the game but the likelihood of their returning will probably diminish over time. It scares me that many of the ones unsubbed actually had game time left that they aren't using.

Unfortunately most of these people are ones with at least one VR14 toon - who had endgame gear and who helped the guilds do progression in trials, organized daily pledges, led PvP, helped newer players with builds and other things that are really quite important in the day-to-day life of a healthy guild.

So if you think this hasn't already had a significant effect on those of us who plan to remain, think again.

This. Players who were on the leader boards have just given up, lost interest due specifically to CP30. Solid members that supported their guilds are falling off leaving a void. Once again I'll point out these are people who pay attention. When the roll back happens many more will just walk out the door.

Morshire

Wait, we get to be offended again about another insult, from other players no less, that think that one fan/player/group is better or worse than another? OHHHHH the horrrrrroorrr.

ZOS has time yesterday to come to the threads and joke with players.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145457/i-can-haz-patch-notes/p2
(Which I am not knocking, it shows they are here and that counts) But it aggravates this situation because any acknowledgement...I do mean any...would go miles to at least stop the hemorrhaging flow of players that are leaving or have left. I would bet that a simple acknowledgement would stem the tide, for at least a moment, because then people would have to validly say that it is on the table and they are looking into it. Most people, at least for a bit, would stay in the hopes that ZOS would........

And if the sky is falling, at this point their won't be tons of people to watch it fall. I was in Eastmarch last night, and there for a couple of hours. Know how many players I saw? 3..yep count them 3 players across the map. All 3 were in the same area as I, and one was just sitting there staring at the side of a mountain both times I passed them. Some one somewhere needs to stop laughing at how combative and dismissive this makes both sides of this debate (everyone realizes that whichever side you are on, at the point of insults, people stop, okay, I stop, looking at the rest of the statement because I have already dismissed it as not being constructive to the debate.) I bet the people at ZOS do the same. Or worse, they sit and laugh at how stupid some comments are without actually taking either side seriously.

And to be clear, while I side with the people who are up in arms, I also see the validity of the other side. What I cannot understand is how people can get so hung up on semantics. "Entitled", "owed", "promise", "lied to", "elitist", "hardcore/casual"....these words may not accurately convey someone's meaning, but it does convey the feeling. Rather than have everyone "whip it out" so we can measure, (IMO that is what PVP is for) we need to see the issue at stake:
1) ZOS has shown a propensity for "misleading" customers. (Insert your grip here)
2) The game is loosing players. (Whether you add value to them or not, they = $$$)
3) If we lose players that have helped us get here with the game, ZOS will be forced to find players elsewhere...by whatever means they have to.

Will this game be everything you'd hoped it would be in a year if that happens? IDK, but I can say that I would rather not find out. This isn't about stupid champion systems or points, or whose the better/more important fan/ player. It is flat out about ZOS and the way they continue to make mistakes at the cost of players. (IMO)

Sylvyr

At this point, if I had to guess, which I guess I do (not a lot of choice there), since there's no simple confirm or deny response to this huge and long time ongoing thread with many concerned customers...

It seems to come down to a couple likely things:

1) They feel they communicated clearly and enough to us already and don't want to bother giving this any more time or attention.
2) They just don't know...
3) They know but don't want to tell us (why? I dunno, save subs?)

and the most optimistic guess is

4) They are just too busy.

None of these scenarios, in their own ways, makes me feel confident as a customer.

phreatophile

To everyone who said shut up a take it, apparently making our disgust known is effective.

Giraffon

Everyone! They have changed their position on this. It's much better now. Go check out:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145544/feedback-to-the-champion-system#latesthttp://

Grao

Giraffon wrote: »

Everyone! They have changed their position on this. It's much better now. Go check out:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145544/feedback-to-the-champion-system#latesthttp://

*Fireworks*

We were heard!

Joejudas

I'm very very happy guys. well done guys we did it they listened.

Francescolg

So a vr14 will get 70 CP (max.), so far so good.. ..but...

How much are 70 CP out of total obtainable CP?
Isn't 30 or 70 not so much of a difference when you see it in a brighter light?
Didn't the old quote: "we will track further XP" refer to "invisible" XP after vr 14?
I still feel unenlighted
I think they tracked nothing and that this 70 CP are just some old left christmas cookies, expiration day: 01-15-2015

Grao

Francescolg wrote: »

So a vr14 will get 70 CP (max.), so far so good.. ..but...

How much are 70 CP out of total obtainable CP?
Isn't 30 or 70 not so much of a difference when you see it in a brighter light?

You can get a total of 3600 CPs right now (1.6), but that is meant to be an extremely long progression.

Enodoc

Francescolg wrote: »

So a vr14 will get 70 CP (max.), so far so good.. ..but...

How much are 70 CP out of total obtainable CP?
Isn't 30 or 70 not so much of a difference when you see it in a brighter light?

70/3600 = 0.01944, basically 2% of the total. The point is that this is a much fairer, scaled system based on your XP rather than a flat rate for everyone.

global_gbb16_ESO

<snip> no longer relevant

Francescolg

Excuse me but 2 % does not sound so meaningful to me.

seanvwolf

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i am not doing what you claim i did. i worked for something that i did not recieve. it was honest "work" and by "work" i mean just that. it was "work" i hate pve in this game because of alot of the reversal it has from morrowind and also the community i witness in eso. so for me it was pain staking and i raced through it as fast as i could.

Wait... what? You worked at it because it was toward achievements and dyes and skill points and wayshrine unlocks and... bah.

You are complaining about something that hasn't come. You never had to finish quests to get to VR14 or higher... you could have grinded, like I see others doing from time to time (though I only personally grinded to vr14 from vr13; did all the quests).

This is like complaining about not having a full skill line fully trained to morph simply because you couldn't access the skill line before it was released and ALL THAT WASTED XP could have gone to the new skill line [sarcasm is sarcastic].

The truth is the CS is launching on the PTS for testing and feedback... TESTING AND FEEDBACK... Essentially, subject to change.

The conversions were going to be accounted for testing purposes and that you'd be able to play with it until the system hits Live. What's the purpose of testing on the PTS? Bug squashing and feedback from the community. Because things change. It could be that the community decides they hate the CS system and want to keep the Vet system going on live... and if ZOS says okay, then guess what? It should happen. And all that wasted time ZOS put in to the CS after the outcry from PvP whiners complaining about the advantage VR14's had could have gone to creating VR15-16 content. Or working on the Imperial City... or creating a more dynamic Cyrodiil.

Change is the name of the game.

Grao

Francescolg wrote: »

Excuse me but 2 % does not sound so meaningful to me.

The Champion System works through diminishing returns, so those first few %s will be the ones to heavily affect your characters.

Also, the Veteran System max exp was never meant to match or even come close to the max exp of the Champion System. The whole point of the new system is to extend the progression of your characters to almost limitless, allowing for greater build flexibility.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Well I just ran the uninstaller, seeing as how ZOS is run by untrustworthy hacks. Not only are you incompetents failing to keep your word about tracking XP, your uninstaller failed to remove 30 GB's of game data, which I am now deleting myself.

You idiots at ZOS can't do anything right, can you?

Northern_Wolfling

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Well I just ran the uninstaller, seeing as how ZOS is run by untrustworthy hacks. Not only are you incompetents failing to keep your word about tracking XP, your uninstaller failed to remove 30 GB's of game data, which I am now deleting myself.

You idiots at ZOS can't do anything right, can you?

I see you are unhappy, but isn't this a bit harsh?

Morshire

Wait WTF - am I missing something or are people still wanting to quit? While I respect the opinion, I am dumbfounded. Is this perfect, no. But I truly believe that is about as fair as we could hope for. Not tracking XP, well maybe not beyond VR14, but surely for every 200k XP = 1CP (Up till it launches, then the rest of people got to do it with the normal means) is compensation enough for the "effort" people have given to the game.
-
*sitting here scratching my head* WTH am I missing?

Grao

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Well I just ran the uninstaller, seeing as how ZOS is run by untrustworthy hacks. Not only are you incompetents failing to keep your word about tracking XP, your uninstaller failed to remove 30 GB's of game data, which I am now deleting myself.

You idiots at ZOS can't do anything right, can you?

Damn, you didn't uninstall the game when ZoS said they'd give 30 CPs to any veteran character and now that the company compromises you decide to uninstall?

Ok. Just to leave my opinion, true, those with multiple high level characters will be hurt a little, yes, but far less then they'd have been on the previous plan. At least now your character's individual progression is being respected; come 1.7 and the removal of the veteran system, your characters will still have the power lvl of a Vr14.

Francescolg

Grao wrote: »

The Champion System works through diminishing returns, so those first few %s will be the ones to heavily affect your characters.

Also, the Veteran System max exp was never meant to match or even come close to the max exp of the Champion System. The whole point of the new system is to extend the progression of your characters to almost limitless, allowing for greater build flexibility.

Maybe, but if I did play a lot in the last 6+ months I'd still feel like less well off..

Up to 6+ months of power gaming for 70 out of 3600 CP?

I feel like beeing set back to level 2 of 100 for what...? recreation
Second, I have not so much motivation to leave PvP again just to have to level vr 2 - 100 next, this is just how it feels for me, these are just my personal thoughts!

Northern_Wolfling

Grao wrote: »

Ok. Just to leave my opinion, true, those with multiple high level characters will be hurt a little, yes, but far less then they'd have been on the previous plan. At least now your character's individual progression is being respected; come 1.7 and the removal of the veteran system, your characters will still have the power lvl of a Vr14.

And as for now more. Craglorn was to be balanced around 30CP (the power of a vet14). But I totally agree it is nice that they appriciate your character's individual progression now

Morshire

Wait what? I have been advocating for this change, now it is here (maybe not in the way that everyone would hope for, but they did change) and it isn't enough? You realize:

200k XP = 1CP means that all the xp gained is being rewarded based on a method that recognizes the effort in VR.

The fact that they did change the approach does show they listen to the fan base (maybe not specific changes cause that would be a mess, but changing stance is what people needed to hear from ZOS)

Not going to be a "level" playing field as VR1 doesn't get the same CP and will only get 30CP in the new system for completing Gold/Silver (guessing this is right, but using what others said.

The 70CP is above and beyond what anyone who is not VR14 at launch will ever get. Period.

They stuck to their word when they said "up to a cap".

I mean, really they kind of nailed it in my eyes. Is it enough, I doubt it ever will. But for all the threads I followed that discussed this issue, they hit all the points in some fashion. WTF am I missing?

Grao

Francescolg wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

The Champion System works through diminishing returns, so those first few %s will be the ones to heavily affect your characters.

Also, the Veteran System max exp was never meant to match or even come close to the max exp of the Champion System. The whole point of the new system is to extend the progression of your characters to almost limitless, allowing for greater build flexibility.

Maybe, but if I did play a lot in the last 6+ months I'd still feel like less well off..

Up to 6+ months of power gaming for 70 out of 3600 CP?

I feel like beeing set back to level 2 of 100 for what...? recreation
Second, I have not so much motivation to leave PvP again just to have to level vr 2 - 100 next, this is just how it feels for me, these are just my personal thoughts!

True, you are not getting the power up you were lead to believe was coming, but as I mentioned before, at least none of your characters wont be weakened or flattened to the same status of all other veteran characters. There will still be scaling, even after the veteran ranks are removed.

To feel better, just think you are getting 70 CPs in each of your characters and you will be able to get more CPs from all those characters as you go on playing.

lifthrasir85 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ok. Just to leave my opinion, true, those with multiple high level characters will be hurt a little, yes, but far less then they'd have been on the previous plan. At least now your character's individual progression is being respected; come 1.7 and the removal of the veteran system, your characters will still have the power lvl of a Vr14.

And as for now more. Craglorn was to be balanced around 30CP (the power of a vet14). But I totally agree it is nice that they appriciate your character's individual progression now

Yes, I will say that PvP during 1.6 will be rougher to the lower veteran ranks as the difference in power between levels will be greater until ZoS removes the Veteran System. Still, hopefully 70 out of 3600 isn't enough to break the system.

Francescolg

IMO, if you do tweak the leveling system by modificating it too often, you (snip's) up! :-(

In june 2014 we already were complaining about the supplementary VR 1-14 grind and now we get a 3600 CP grind which we start at 70 CP

I can live with it but I still think they created too much so far. The leveling system is the structure behind the game. If you change it too often you..

Northern_Wolfling

Grao wrote: »

lifthrasir85 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ok. Just to leave my opinion, true, those with multiple high level characters will be hurt a little, yes, but far less then they'd have been on the previous plan. At least now your character's individual progression is being respected; come 1.7 and the removal of the veteran system, your characters will still have the power lvl of a Vr14.

And as for now more. Craglorn was to be balanced around 30CP (the power of a vet14). But I totally agree it is nice that they appriciate your character's individual progression now

Yes, I will say that PvP during 1.6 will be rougher to the lower veteran ranks as the difference in power between levels will be greater until ZoS removes the Veteran System. Still, hopefully 70 out of 3600 isn't enough to break the system.

What I actually wanted to say was, that with 1.7 VR14s never were about to be nerfed, since 30CP equals VR14. Now you get even more than that (70CP) plus vr1s won't be buffed to "equality". Wich is fair. I think it's really good what they did now.
But true, during 1.6. vet 14s will have more vet ranks AND more CPs. ;-)
Edit: I think that's why they were so reluctant to consider the individual progession at first, since your vet ranks still exist in 1,6.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO

Guppet wrote: »

The single biggest problem, is that they have delayed removing VR levels till 1.7 or later. It makes no sense to have both systems at the same time. It cant be about testing it sooner either as some have VR levels and others don't, so its not balanced anyway.

Saying it will be removed later is like saying go and have fun playing, but when you come back im gonna smack you in the face.

I think this whole thing would be less painful if they went the whole hog and removed VR completely when they bring in CP.

This is absolutely incorrect....people need to really have at least an ounce of reading comprehension....they said months ago that the Champion system will be rolled out in phases. They said both systems will coexist in the 3rd phase which is what we are going into when 1.6 hits. They explained why this was necessary so I am not going to explain it here you can do a bit of homework and do a forum search.

Guppet

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

The single biggest problem, is that they have delayed removing VR levels till 1.7 or later. It makes no sense to have both systems at the same time. It cant be about testing it sooner either as some have VR levels and others don't, so its not balanced anyway.

Saying it will be removed later is like saying go and have fun playing, but when you come back im gonna smack you in the face.

I think this whole thing would be less painful if they went the whole hog and removed VR completely when they bring in CP.

This is absolutely incorrect....people need to really have at least an ounce of reading comprehension....they said months ago that the Champion system will be rolled out in phases. They said both systems will coexist in the 3rd phase which is what we are going into when 1.6 hits. They explained why this was necessary so I am not going to explain it here you can do a bit of homework and do a forum search.

Just because they said both systems will be in effect at the same time, does not automatically make it a good idea.

Also since when can an opinion be incorrect? An opinion is all about perspective.

Before you accuse someone of lacking reading comprehension, you should make sure you actually show some yourself. At the time I wrote the above comment, they were intending to award all VR players 30 CP, They said it was to test the balance, which can't be done when people are different VR levels. I guess you can't comprened how that would be the case.

Joejudas

I'm happy with how this is being resolved. The people still complaining...just imo are being unreasonable. I'm extremely happy with what we are getting. It's a system based on progression which we all knew. All we truely wanted was a small diiference so there was still a recognized difference between a vr1 and a vr14. I do realize that VR won't go away until 1.7 and I wasn't expecting anything until that point. So I'm extremely grateful it's coming early.

global_gbb16_ESO

Definitely a move in the right direction with the CP compensation amendment but for the time being at least I think i will stay unsubscribed and come back in a few months once the CP system has settled down a bit. One of the problems I'm encountering (as well as being mega annoyed initially at the 30CP cap) is the lack of motivation to do the same grind over again for building new characters.

Out of sheer interest, has ZOS considered allow a player to completely reset a character (in terms of class etc) for perhaps a small progress penalty?

Nijjion

Giraffon wrote: »

Everyone! They have changed their position on this. It's much better now. Go check out:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145544/feedback-to-the-champion-system#latesthttp://

That literarly changes nothing, and I mean nothing.

They could give us 30 or 70 champ points or even none at the start really. Changes did nothing.