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What happened to " we will track your exp earned " ????( Gina Bruno answered this 12/28/2014)
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Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Ok, you are just wrong. In game what measures commitment and effort is the level of your character and maybe, maybe the number of quests completed or advance on PvP. Nothing else.
The only thing your hypothetical situation tells me is that the vr3 that took 1000 hours of game play to reach such a low level is horrible. He shouldn't be rewarded or punished for being horrible.
LOL @Merlin13KAGL
I can't even.
LMAO.
I'm not even going to validate what you said with a response.
It's an extreme example, definitely, but the argument I see the most equates level with time dedicated to the game.
The gap will exhibit itself shortly after, as I've already said ~ as your other post promises. My overall point is that there are more factors involved that they will base their decisions on.
The 'horrible' player @Grao mentions may have put their time into other aspects of the game.
All of these things play a factor in their decisions.
Ideally, I'd like to see it as a combination of time played, rank, and XP's.
They're ultimately going to do whatever they're going to do, and they're likely not going to justify it, one way or the other, to anyone.
Not saying you're right or wrong, just saying it's a losing battle.
What other aspects of the game? Seriously... It is an MMO, or you quest, or you grind (both for leveling), you do PvP and you work professions. My main character has all exploration achievements, all quests completed, all professions leveled to maxed... And I didn't take that many hours to reach vr3 >.<
And none of your arguments play any role on ZoS decision. Their decision (as they've stated in another forum post) is based only in the need to flatten the differences between vr1s and the other vr levels because they are abolishing those differences.
Coming 1.7 we will all have the power or of a vr1 or of a vr14 or something in between, no matter what rank we are currently on the veteran system! Isn't that great?
No. just. noGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]6 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Ok, you are just wrong. In game what measures commitment and effort is the level of your character and maybe, maybe the number of quests completed or advance on PvP. Nothing else.
The only thing your hypothetical situation tells me is that the vr3 that took 1000 hours of game play to reach such a low level is horrible. He shouldn't be rewarded or punished for being horrible.
LOL @Merlin13KAGL
I can't even.
LMAO.
I'm not even going to validate what you said with a response.
It's an extreme example, definitely, but the argument I see the most equates level with time dedicated to the game.
The gap will exhibit itself shortly after, as I've already said ~ as your other post promises. My overall point is that there are more factors involved that they will base their decisions on.
The 'horrible' player @Grao mentions may have put their time into other aspects of the game.
All of these things play a factor in their decisions.
Ideally, I'd like to see it as a combination of time played, rank, and XP's.
They're ultimately going to do whatever they're going to do, and they're likely not going to justify it, one way or the other, to anyone.
Not saying you're right or wrong, just saying it's a losing battle.
What other aspects of the game? Seriously... It is an MMO, or you quest, or you grind (both for leveling), you do PvP and you work professions. My main character has all exploration achievements, all quests completed, all professions leveled to maxed... And I didn't take that many hours to reach vr3 >.<
And none of your arguments play any role on ZoS decision. Their decision (as they've stated in another forum post) is based only in the need to flatten the differences between vr1s and the other vr levels because they are abolishing those differences.
Coming 1.7 we will all have the power or of a vr1 or of a vr14 or something in between, no matter what rank we are currently on the veteran system! Isn't that great?
No. just. no
Yup, that was my reaction when I was told so by ZoS too. Don't believe, here is a copy of the email:
Thank you for getting back to me. I completely understand your frustration on this.
As I mentioned in my last response, the major point to take away from the thread at this time is as follows:
'The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.'
This means that when the system comes in, players will retain their Veteran Ranks, keeping the power differential between VR1 and VR14 players the same. You will not have the progression you worked so hard for removed.
As for what comes in the phases after, I'm afraid I don't have that information at this time. I can only ask you to watch the thread for updates as more information becomes available.
I apologize for any confusion or frustration this issue has caused you, and I hope that allays some of your concerns. As always, please don't hesitate to reply with any questions you may have, and I'll do my best to address them.
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team
TL:DR as I see it: With 1.6 ZoS start closing in the difference between Vr1s and Vr14s by giving unearned points to the vr1s and removing earned points from the vr14.
Patch 1.7 comes, no more veteran ranks, all power normalized to vr1 or vr14 independent of your current progression! Oh, you know those extra Attribute points we liked so much given as you rank on the vet system? Those will be gone! You know your awesome vr14 gold gear? Yeah... Won't be so awesome.6 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »So, I just got a neat little answer from ZoS about this theme. Apparently they are giving everyone 30 points because they want to start leveling the plain field between Vr1 and Vr14. Wanna know why? Because they are planning to strip all the veteran ranks without any consideration to the time and effort you spent going from vr1 to vr14.
And what does that mean? That leveling beyond vr1 is now completely pointless, since whatever progression you do during 1.6 will be nule and void. Isn't that brilliant of them?
They are also sadists... They are stripping us of our earned power and exp layer by later as form of prolonged torture, they are skinning us alive! Maybe they hope to lose less players by doing it little by little.
To be honest its simply a numbers game, they realize that their game has attracted swarms of super casuals who want everyone to be the same so that is what they are trying to do.
It worked for WoW but unfortunately it will not work for ZoS as they are not as established. The super casuals will soon realize that they still can't do content and are still being destroyed by more skilled players, once they realize this they will leave the game in swarms as will many of the loyal customers they betrayed.
gg.
Do you honestly believe what you just said?
Seriously I couldn't care less about your "e-peen" in ESO. And if you had 10 million CP´s, who cares?
The time you spent grinding those I spent with friends and family, building a house, traveling around the world.
You guys take yourself as way to important, nobody cares about your success in online gaming.
Didn't you say you got rank 14 (high warlord) in WoW, that took far more time than anything in this game. There were even people account sharing to try and get that, so the accounts could be logged on 24 hours a day. No one got that title with less than 12 hours a day for weeks on end.Edited by Guppet on December 30, 2014 3:59PM1 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yup, that was my reaction when I was told so by ZoS too. Don't believe, here is a copy of the email:
Thank you for getting back to me. I completely understand your frustration on this.
As I mentioned in my last response, the major point to take away from the thread at this time is as follows:
'The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.'
This means that when the system comes in, players will retain their Veteran Ranks, keeping the power differential between VR1 and VR14 players the same. You will not have the progression you worked so hard for removed.
As for what comes in the phases after, I'm afraid I don't have that information at this time. I can only ask you to watch the thread for updates as more information becomes available.
I apologize for any confusion or frustration this issue has caused you, and I hope that allays some of your concerns. As always, please don't hesitate to reply with any questions you may have, and I'll do my best to address them.
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team
At the risk of sounding not upset at whats going on... basically that email says
1.) With update 1.6 and phase 3, every account with one VR 1 to VR14 will get 30 CP and keep their VR rank (Basically 30 CP to try out the Champion System.)
2.) ZoS has not determined what Phase 4 will do with individual Veteran ranked characters and rewarding each characters ranks, nor how their individual progression will be rewarded. (Which is why they could still say they are rewarding individual progression.)
Sigh.. not exactly sure they really are reading the reaction in the forums and in-game. Thanks for a copy of an official response... but not sure that isnt throwing gasoline on a fire.Edited by Darlgon on December 30, 2014 3:05PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.5 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Agreed. Idk, maybe I'm old and was raised with the ideology that rewards are given based on the result of hard work and dedication.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Ok, you are just wrong. In game what measures commitment and effort is the level of your character and maybe, maybe the number of quests completed or advance on PvP. Nothing else.
The only thing your hypothetical situation tells me is that the vr3 that took 1000 hours of game play to reach such a low level is horrible. He shouldn't be rewarded or punished for being horrible.
LOL @Merlin13KAGL
I can't even.
LMAO.
I'm not even going to validate what you said with a response.
It's an extreme example, definitely, but the argument I see the most equates level with time dedicated to the game.
The gap will exhibit itself shortly after, as I've already said ~ as your other post promises. My overall point is that there are more factors involved that they will base their decisions on.
The 'horrible' player @Grao mentions may have put their time into other aspects of the game.
All of these things play a factor in their decisions.
Ideally, I'd like to see it as a combination of time played, rank, and XP's.
They're ultimately going to do whatever they're going to do, and they're likely not going to justify it, one way or the other, to anyone.
Not saying you're right or wrong, just saying it's a losing battle.
What other aspects of the game? Seriously... It is an MMO, or you quest, or you grind (both for leveling), you do PvP and you work professions. My main character has all exploration achievements, all quests completed, all professions leveled to maxed... And I didn't take that many hours to reach vr3 >.<
And none of your arguments play any role on ZoS decision. Their decision (as they've stated in another forum post) is based only in the need to flatten the differences between vr1s and the other vr levels because they are abolishing those differences.
Coming 1.7 we will all have the power or of a vr1 or of a vr14 or something in between, no matter what rank we are currently on the veteran system! Isn't that great?
No. just. no
Yup, that was my reaction when I was told so by ZoS too. Don't believe, here is a copy of the email:
Thank you for getting back to me. I completely understand your frustration on this.
As I mentioned in my last response, the major point to take away from the thread at this time is as follows:
'The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.'
This means that when the system comes in, players will retain their Veteran Ranks, keeping the power differential between VR1 and VR14 players the same. You will not have the progression you worked so hard for removed.
As for what comes in the phases after, I'm afraid I don't have that information at this time. I can only ask you to watch the thread for updates as more information becomes available.
I apologize for any confusion or frustration this issue has caused you, and I hope that allays some of your concerns. As always, please don't hesitate to reply with any questions you may have, and I'll do my best to address them.
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team
TL:DR as I see it: With 1.6 ZoS start closing in the difference between Vr1s and Vr14s by giving unearned points to the vr1s and removing earned points from the vr14.
Patch 1.7 comes, no more veteran ranks, all power normalized to vr1 or vr14 independent of your current progression! Oh, you know those extra Attribute points we liked so much given as you rank on the vet system? Those will be gone! You know your awesome vr14 gold gear? Yeah... Won't be so awesome.
@ZOS caved into this PC/sheltered ideal of giving a trophy to everyone just for showing up. Bunch of milk drinkers!Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]7 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yup, that was my reaction when I was told so by ZoS too. Don't believe, here is a copy of the email:
Thank you for getting back to me. I completely understand your frustration on this.
As I mentioned in my last response, the major point to take away from the thread at this time is as follows:
'The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.'
This means that when the system comes in, players will retain their Veteran Ranks, keeping the power differential between VR1 and VR14 players the same. You will not have the progression you worked so hard for removed.
As for what comes in the phases after, I'm afraid I don't have that information at this time. I can only ask you to watch the thread for updates as more information becomes available.
I apologize for any confusion or frustration this issue has caused you, and I hope that allays some of your concerns. As always, please don't hesitate to reply with any questions you may have, and I'll do my best to address them.
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team
At the risk of sounding not upset at whats going on... basically that email says
1.) With update 1.6 and phase 3, every account with one VR 1 to VR14 will get 30 CP and keep their VR rank (Basically 30 CP to try out the Champion System.)
2.) ZoS has not determined what Phase 4 will do with individual Veteran ranked characters and rewarding each characters ranks, nor how their individual progression will be rewarded. (Which is why they could still say they are rewarding individual progression.)
Sigh.. not exactly sure they really are reading the reaction in the forums and in-game. Thanks for a copy of an official response... but not sure that isnt throwing gasoline on a fire.
The huge problem with 1.6 is that vr14s should get about 50 champion points minimum (that is the value of exp gained to reach vr14 from vr1, translated to champion points) and vr1s should get... Well, 0 points (unless they already have some experience gathered within vr1, of course).
So, you must agree, they are trying to flatten the levels, diminish the difference of power. If you assume that is a pattern and apply it to the complete removal of the veteran system (Likely on 1.7), what you end up with is the simple conclusion that ZoS will ignore individual progression and make everyone's power level the same and whatever they think is ok to restart the grind... Sorry, the game.
P.s. Maybe throwing gasoline into the fire is exactly what we need. Maybe the mods (they are watching!) will actually pass our complains up the food chains and the devs will decide not to break the progression rules of their own system upon release!
I mean, why are they giving 30 CPs to the vr1s? The VR1s haven't earned those points and future VR1s won't get those points. The 30 CPs is a one time deal upon the release of the system!
Why are the vr14 not being given the 50 or so points they are entitled to? That they worked for? When vr1s level all the way to vr14 within the system they will get those points we, currently already leveled, wont.Edited by Grao on December 30, 2014 3:21PM5 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yup, that was my reaction when I was told so by ZoS too. Don't believe, here is a copy of the email:
Thank you for getting back to me. I completely understand your frustration on this.
As I mentioned in my last response, the major point to take away from the thread at this time is as follows:
'The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.'
This means that when the system comes in, players will retain their Veteran Ranks, keeping the power differential between VR1 and VR14 players the same. You will not have the progression you worked so hard for removed.
As for what comes in the phases after, I'm afraid I don't have that information at this time. I can only ask you to watch the thread for updates as more information becomes available.
I apologize for any confusion or frustration this issue has caused you, and I hope that allays some of your concerns. As always, please don't hesitate to reply with any questions you may have, and I'll do my best to address them.
Warmest regards,
Lloyd
The Elder Scrolls Online Team
At the risk of sounding not upset at whats going on... basically that email says
1.) With update 1.6 and phase 3, every account with one VR 1 to VR14 will get 30 CP and keep their VR rank (Basically 30 CP to try out the Champion System.)
2.) ZoS has not determined what Phase 4 will do with individual Veteran ranked characters and rewarding each characters ranks, nor how their individual progression will be rewarded. (Which is why they could still say they are rewarding individual progression.)
Sigh.. not exactly sure they really are reading the reaction in the forums and in-game. Thanks for a copy of an official response... but not sure that isnt throwing gasoline on a fire.
You bring up a good point. It is quite possible that because there will still be vet ranks in phase 3 that awarding 30 CPs to everyone will affect nothing in regards to "power" differences.
When it comes to phase 4 and the removing of the ranks differences however, @ZOS should really consider rewarding the rank differences with the appropriate amount of CPs.Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]2 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What other aspects of the game? Seriously... It is an MMO, or you quest, or you grind (both for leveling), you do PvP and you work professions. My main character has all exploration achievements, all quests completed, all professions leveled to maxed... And I didn't take that many hours to reach vr3 >.<
And none of your arguments play any role on ZoS decision. Their decision (as they've stated in another forum post) is based only in the need to flatten the differences between vr1s and the other vr levels because they are abolishing those differences.
Coming 1.7 we will all have the power or of a vr1 or of a vr14 or something in between, no matter what rank we are currently on the veteran system! Isn't that great?
@Grao , did you read the part of my post that said that was an extreme example? Some RP, some craft, collect, interact with Guildies.
720 hours equates to 30 days in game played and does not somehow obligate someone to be at any particular level. What about people that enjoy making alts, repeatedly? Is their time somehow worth less?
How about 8 characters at 125 hours each, trying different builds or alliances?
You, and however many other people, have determined where someone should be at given a certain amount of time and you have determined, arbitrarily, what that is or is not supposed to be worth.
The 'you didn't do it this way' or 'you didn't reach this goal, so you do/don't deserve this reward' is BS.
Your RANK is your reward. The benefits that come with it, skillpoints, attribute points, gear, time mastering your skills is your reward. Changing how that is viewed will not change those gains.
None of your arguments play any role in their decision either.
That is my very point.
They're looking at the entire player base, not just the ones that have somehow determined they are 'worth more.'
I've got max level characters. I've got characters that are not.
People are making assumptions about how the transition to no-VR's is going to work when ZOS has probably not decided themselves.
One month's sub $ is one month's sub $. Period.
This "I'm more important that the next guy, so change it or I'll leave" crap is ridiculous. If you don't like it when it comes out, walk on.
The game will continue either way.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS7 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭@Merlin13KAGL
Again you go on about 'hours spent in game.' Its not about hours and never has been. NO mmo rewards people for just time spent in game. They reward players for reaching certain thresholds, such as exp, gear or other. Paying your monthly sub does not give someone the right to be put at the same level as another player who has progressed more. We were told there would be certain thresholds for CP gain. We were told 95% of the player base would not reach that cap. We didn't just pull this info out of butts, it was stated by lead devs and other higher ups at ZoS.
Furthermore, the "assumptions" people are making about transitions to no VR levels are based of the words and postings here from ZoS themselves. When they say they have no plan to reward lost VR ranks in future patches we have to assume that will happen. We have to speak up now, so hopefully it will get changed. Sitting quietly now, waiting to see if they will do another 180 when 1.7 comes is not how you make sure this gets changed.7 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »What other aspects of the game? Seriously... It is an MMO, or you quest, or you grind (both for leveling), you do PvP and you work professions. My main character has all exploration achievements, all quests completed, all professions leveled to maxed... And I didn't take that many hours to reach vr3 >.<
And none of your arguments play any role on ZoS decision. Their decision (as they've stated in another forum post) is based only in the need to flatten the differences between vr1s and the other vr levels because they are abolishing those differences.
Coming 1.7 we will all have the power or of a vr1 or of a vr14 or something in between, no matter what rank we are currently on the veteran system! Isn't that great?
@Grao , did you read the part of my post that said that was an extreme example? Some RP, some craft, collect, interact with Guildies.
720 hours equates to 30 days in game played and does not somehow obligate someone to be at any particular level. What about people that enjoy making alts, repeatedly? Is their time somehow worth less?
How about 8 characters at 125 hours each, trying different builds or alliances?
You, and however many other people, have determined where someone should be at given a certain amount of time and you have determined, arbitrarily, what that is or is not supposed to be worth.
The 'you didn't do it this way' or 'you didn't reach this goal, so you do/don't deserve this reward' is BS.
Your RANK is your reward. The benefits that come with it, skillpoints, attribute points, gear, time mastering your skills is your reward. Changing how that is viewed will not change those gains.
None of your arguments play any role in their decision either.
That is my very point.
They're looking at the entire player base, not just the ones that have somehow determined they are 'worth more.'
I've got max level characters. I've got characters that are not.
People are making assumptions about how the transition to no-VR's is going to work when ZOS has probably not decided themselves.
One month's sub $ is one month's sub $. Period.
This "I'm more important that the next guy, so change it or I'll leave" crap is ridiculous. If you don't like it when it comes out, walk on.
The game will continue either way.
Ok, first, if you have several characters you've been leveling you should be getting a lot more then 30 CPs as CPs are account wide and supposed to take in consideration of ALL characters, not just one.
Also, you say our rank is our reward, but our ranks are being stripped, slowly but surely. They already said that the veteran system is going and will be reduced to a single level with progression base on champion points. Since they are not giving the earned points to anyone (but giving free 30 points to the current vr1s but not future vr1s) it seems pretty clear progression means nothing to them.
And:
- Skill points have nothing to do with Levels. When you level up you dont gain a skill point, you gain an attribute point and the attribute points for vr1-vr14 will be removed since those levels will no longer exist.
- Gear will also be completely changed and flattened as there won't be gear requirements. The vr14 gear you get from a raid will be accessible to a vr1 (if they go through the raid, of course) and no one knows how the stats on gear will be. Everything about progression now will come from Champion points, which we are being capriciously denied even though we earned them.
- Third, I don't think I am more important then the vr1s, but I do think, no, I know I spent more time playing the game, I've gathered more experience (It is a number, there is no argument here) and according to the rules of the champion system I should get champion points. I am not, so I am being cheated, so I am pissed off, yes.7 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Merlin13KAGL
Again you go on about 'hours spent in game.' Its not about hours and never has been. NO mmo rewards people for just time spent in game. They reward players for reaching certain thresholds, such as exp, gear or other. Paying your monthly sub does not give someone the right to be put at the same level as another player who has progressed more. We were told there would be certain thresholds for CP gain. We were told 95% of the player base would not reach that cap. We didn't just pull this info out of butts, it was stated by lead devs and other higher ups at ZoS.
Furthermore, the "assumptions" people are making about transitions to no VR levels are based of the words and postings here from ZoS themselves. When they say they have no plan to reward lost VR ranks in future patches we have to assume that will happen. We have to speak up now, so hopefully it will get changed. Sitting quietly now, waiting to see if they will do another 180 when 1.7 comes is not how you make sure this gets changed.
VR14=VR14=VR14.
VR14 > VR1.
Pretty sure after whatever they do, post VR14 equivalent will still be greater than post VR1 equivalent.
What is known is only the first half of what they're doing and how they're doing it.
Is it different than what they said they'd do. Yeah. Not arguing that point.
While it sounds good, I have yet to see an example of forum complaining and threats sway their intent one way or the other.
I get that people are pissed. I do. But, the argument is being made about who 'makes the game what it is.' Unfortunately, that's probably not the way ZoS sees it.
I find it pointless to make demands to ZoS about something they have not fully disclosed all the details of because it's still probably in transition on their end.
Someone's gonna be pissed no matter how it goes. Someone's gonna get screwed. I'd put $ on it.
If the small number of CP's are not going to make that much of a difference (argument towards giving someone more), the argument equally goes the other way (If it's not that much of a difference, why should we have to give more to start?)
The short version:- ZoS said something.
- ZoS said something else.
- ZoS will eventually say something different yet.
They are not obligated to do anything other than what they are going to do.
Raise hell, if it makes you feel better. This forum is full of expectations and demands to ZoS. Is there one that has actually gone somewhere?
This horse is dead before it's even had a chance to be properly conceived.
Edited by Merlin13KAGL on December 30, 2014 4:36PMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS4 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »@Merlin13KAGL
Again you go on about 'hours spent in game.' Its not about hours and never has been. NO mmo rewards people for just time spent in game. They reward players for reaching certain thresholds, such as exp, gear or other. Paying your monthly sub does not give someone the right to be put at the same level as another player who has progressed more. We were told there would be certain thresholds for CP gain. We were told 95% of the player base would not reach that cap. We didn't just pull this info out of butts, it was stated by lead devs and other higher ups at ZoS.
Furthermore, the "assumptions" people are making about transitions to no VR levels are based of the words and postings here from ZoS themselves. When they say they have no plan to reward lost VR ranks in future patches we have to assume that will happen. We have to speak up now, so hopefully it will get changed. Sitting quietly now, waiting to see if they will do another 180 when 1.7 comes is not how you make sure this gets changed.
VR14=VR14=VR14.
VR14 > VR1.
Pretty sure after whatever they do, post VR14 equivalent will still be greater than post VR1 equivalent.
What is known is only the first half of what they're doing and how they're doing it.
Is it different than what they said they'd do. Yeah. Not arguing that point.
While it sounds good, I have yet to see an example of forum complaining and threats sway their intent one way or the other.
I get that people are pissed. I do. But, the argument is being made about who 'makes the game what it is.' Unfortunately, that's probably not the way ZoS sees it.
I find it pointless to make demands to ZoS about something they have not fully disclosed all the details of because it's still probably in trasition on their end.
Someone's gonna be pissed no matter how it goes. Someone's gonna get screwed. I'd put $ on it.
If the small number of CP's are not going to make that much of a difference (argument towards giving someone more), the argument equally goes the other way (If it's not that much of a difference, why should we have to give more to start?)
The short version:- ZoS said something.
- ZoS said something else.
- ZoS will eventually say something different yet.
They are not obligated to do anything other than what they are going to do.
Raise hell, if it makes you feel better. This forum is full of expectations and demands to ZoS. Is there one that has actually gone somewhere?
This horse is dead before it's even had a chance to be properly conceived.
VR is being removed is a result of disgruntled players providing feedback, so there is a precedent.
It does not look like it will make a difference this time though.1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VR is being removed is a result of disgruntled players providing feedback, so there is a precedent.
It does not look like it will make a difference this time though.
@Guppet , I hope they find a middle ground that makes everyone semi-happy.
I just don't know that that's possible at this point. I suspect much of what is in debate is how to do damage control to minimize losses before they even put it out.
There are 50 different ways you could determine character 'weight,' XP's and rank being only one of them.
It's gonna be what it's gonna be. People will stay, people will go.
Guess I just hate to see all of the community so up in arms about any one thing.
And for the record, ZoS has tended to be more reactive than proactive. I suspect they are treading more carefully than ever after the 1.5 fiasco. For their sake, and their continued existance, I hope so.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
kolkedieb17_ESOSoul ShrivenAs always... they had to change something.... what ever you say ZoS... your words means nothing......2
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Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »@Merlin13KAGL
Again you go on about 'hours spent in game.' Its not about hours and never has been. NO mmo rewards people for just time spent in game. They reward players for reaching certain thresholds, such as exp, gear or other. Paying your monthly sub does not give someone the right to be put at the same level as another player who has progressed more. We were told there would be certain thresholds for CP gain. We were told 95% of the player base would not reach that cap. We didn't just pull this info out of butts, it was stated by lead devs and other higher ups at ZoS.
Furthermore, the "assumptions" people are making about transitions to no VR levels are based of the words and postings here from ZoS themselves. When they say they have no plan to reward lost VR ranks in future patches we have to assume that will happen. We have to speak up now, so hopefully it will get changed. Sitting quietly now, waiting to see if they will do another 180 when 1.7 comes is not how you make sure this gets changed.
VR14=VR14=VR14.
VR14 > VR1.
Pretty sure after whatever they do, post VR14 equivalent will still be greater than post VR1 equivalent.
What is known is only the first half of what they're doing and how they're doing it.
Is it different than what they said they'd do. Yeah. Not arguing that point.
While it sounds good, I have yet to see an example of forum complaining and threats sway their intent one way or the other.
I get that people are pissed. I do. But, the argument is being made about who 'makes the game what it is.' Unfortunately, that's probably not the way ZoS sees it.
I find it pointless to make demands to ZoS about something they have not fully disclosed all the details of because it's still probably in trasition on their end.
Someone's gonna be pissed no matter how it goes. Someone's gonna get screwed. I'd put $ on it.
If the small number of CP's are not going to make that much of a difference (argument towards giving someone more), the argument equally goes the other way (If it's not that much of a difference, why should we have to give more to start?)
The short version:- ZoS said something.
- ZoS said something else.
- ZoS will eventually say something different yet.
They are not obligated to do anything other than what they are going to do.
Raise hell, if it makes you feel better. This forum is full of expectations and demands to ZoS. Is there one that has actually gone somewhere?
This horse is dead before it's even had a chance to be properly conceived.
VR is being removed is a result of disgruntled players providing feedback, so there is a precedent.
It does not look like it will make a difference this time though.
@Merlin13KAGL clearly doesn't understand that the veteran ranks are being scrapped and that there will be nothing after it other then champion system.
As for this argument @Merlin13KAGL,
The short version:- ZoS said something.
- ZoS said something else.
- ZoS will eventually say something different yet.
That doesn't mean we have to accept and follow their every whim, remember, they are payed by us, not the other way around. Arguing that contesting leads no where just makes you a sheep; doing nothing leads to stagnation and death.
And why would other people be pissed if CPs were given out according to the rules of the system being implemented? Vr14s would get their points, Vr1s would get theirs as they kept on leveling, just as it should be. The vr1s need handicaps? "Oh, you guys are falling so behind, so here it is, a handicap to bring you closer to the rest of the pack". Doesn't seem to matter to ZoS that new players flowing in won't get that handicap at all... Ever.4 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭My two cents: A plain and simple, irrefutable fact:
A VR1 does not deserve 30 CP, if 30 CP is the amount of CP that a person with three VR14s deserves.
To say otherwise is to say that someone who spent 100 hours playing deserves the same reward as someone who spent 1000 hours playing.
If you're going to sit there and tell me that you think the above statement is not true, then I'd really like to have the emperor skill line, even though I didn't put in the work required to get emperor.
Maybe if I QQ'd enough on the forums about a power gap and a disparity between Former emps and normal players I'd get my way. How about it guys? Emp buffs for everyone?
Please and thanks!
You're absolutely right. Except that for the betterment of the game you're wrong because it will be nearly impossible for Dev's to make as many balance adjustments to the CP system before everyone's totals start to diversify.
How do you expect the devs to accurately balance the skills when people have a ton of different starting points? How are the devs to know whether it is the ability that is OP or lacking, or the fact that is is the disparity between who has more CP.
It sucks. We get it. The VR14's put in a ton of time, and I would be pissed too if I was one of them.
This argument is another red herring. There are a number of things they can do. For instance, they can determine the CP to be awarded when 1.6 launches but not award them until 1.7 when the vet system is removed. That would give them the time between 1.6 and 1.7 to monitor the CP gain like you mentioned with everyone starting at 30 CP and then an additional allotment of CP based on your earned XP or vet level at the time 1.6 launches but not awarded until 1.7.
Stop making up excuses for ZOS. The truth is they could do any number of things more fairly if they wanted to but they are choosing not to at the expense of those who played their game the most.7 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Grao , Merlin13KAGL understands it just fine.
Merlin13KAGL's not going to throw a tantrum and stop playing over something that has not been implemented yet.
Forum base is a small representation of the player base. There are a lot more to consider than just you and I. It's about $, and that's where it's gonna have the biggest impact.
It's the 'Your vote counts" argument. Sound great, but in practice, not likely.
And regarding new players / casuals flowing in, what do you think the "Enlightenment bonus" is intended to do.
I don't expect you to just accept every whim. I also don't expect them to quake in fear and change it because "I said so," either.
They'll implement, they'll adjust.
Rinse and repeat. I don't see them scrapping an idea, no matter how simple it may be to change it, without first seeing the impact it has.
It's a test to see where people will place points, high level, or low level, to see how fast people truly gain points, high level, or level.
Those things cannot be tested and adjusted if they don't start it off even.
Only then will the next phase change one way or the other.
I don't expect anyone to sit idly by. I equally don't expect people to complain about the brokenness of something before they've even had a chance to properly break it.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS4 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »@Grao , Merlin13KAGL understands it just fine.
Merlin13KAGL's not going to throw a tantrum and stop playing over something that has not been implemented yet.
Forum base is a small representation of the player base. There are a lot more to consider than just you and I. It's about $, and that's where it's gonna have the biggest impact.
It's the 'Your vote counts" argument. Sound great, but in practice, not likely.
And regarding new players / casuals flowing in, what do you think the "Enlightenment bonus" is intended to do.
I don't expect you to just accept every whim. I also don't expect them to quake in fear and change it because "I said so," either.
They'll implement, they'll adjust.
Rinse and repeat. I don't see them scrapping an idea, no matter how simple it may be to change it, without first seeing the impact it has.
It's a test to see where people will place points, high level, or low level, to see how fast people truly gain points, high level, or level.
Those things cannot be tested and adjusted if they don't start it off even.
Only then will the next phase change one way or the other.
I don't expect anyone to sit idly by. I equally don't expect people to complain about the brokenness of something before they've even had a chance to properly break it.
You don't see ZoS scrapping an entire idea? Man, they are scrapping the entire veteran system because people thought it was too hard to level up. >.>
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Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You don't see ZoS scrapping an entire idea? Man, they are scrapping the entire veteran system because people thought it was too hard to level up. >.>
Not before they implemented it in the first place, no.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
No, they choose the most damaging option, scraping it after releasing. Wouldn't it be best to listen critics now and fix the problems? I think so, that is why I am criticizing now... You know... Here... Before the release...
Oh, by the way, I actually think the champion system is fine. My problem is this stupid exception to the rules that ZoS came up with. There is no possible, logical reason to give 30 free champion points to a few select vr1s and there is no reason not to give earned points to players that actually earned points.Edited by Grao on December 30, 2014 5:20PM9 -
Lynnessa✭✭✭✭I still can't see that anyone is really losing anything... you can still do whatever it is you do in the game after these changes, can't you?
I get that a lot of people have a sense of entitlement because of the many hours of "work" they spent playing a game, but it just isn't something I can identify with. (No, that's not an invitation for someone to explain it again. I get it. My mind just doesn't work that way.)7 -
Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still can't see that anyone is really losing anything... you can still do whatever it is you do in the game after these changes, can't you?
I get that a lot of people have a sense of entitlement because of the many hours of "work" they spent playing a game, but it just isn't something I can identify with. (No, that's not an invitation for someone to explain it again. I get it. My mind just doesn't work that way.)
When in phase 4 veteran ranks are removed Vr1 player will ends up with 30CP + CP from content(non repeatable) +from killing NPC's + CP from PvP+ repeatable quests.
Vr14 player ends up with 30CP+from killing NPC's+ CP from PvP+ repeatable quests. Vr14 gets no CP from content they completed before phase 3!Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!9 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
QFT. This so-called "balancing" permanently unbalances all players who have no Veteran characters.I mean, why are they giving 30 CPs to the vr1s? The VR1s haven't earned those points and future VR1s won't get those points.
If they're going to stick with 30 CPs, at least make it a scaled-to cap. 1 CP per 500,000 XP, starting with 1 CP at VR1, up to a cap of 30 CPs.
Brief breakdown:
VR1 +0 XP: 1 CP
VR1 +500,000 XP: 2 CP
VR2 +0 XP: 3 CP
up to
VR14 +500,000 XP: 28 CP
VR14 +1,000,000 XP: 29 CP
VR14 +1,500,000 XP: 30 CP
If they have actually failed at their tracking of XP past VR14, that still gives people 27 CPs for their VR14, plus any more that other Vet characters will have earned from the same scale; a VR 2 would get them to the cap of 30 easily.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭I asked this three questions of a ZoS support. HIs answer follws under the questions.
Why are you giving vr1s that didn't earn any point those 30 free points?
Why not award the earned point to those that earned them already? I mean, ZoS knows the exp required to go from rank to rank, why not award points according to that?
What makes the current Vr1s deserving of 30 points and future vr1s (new players) non-deserving?
Answer:
Unfortunately, those are all design questions, and as I haven't had a hand in the design process I can't tell you why the development team have decided these things. The only point I can make is that I believe the second part about points for ranks will hopefully be addressed in phase 4, assuming that is the point when VRanks are removed.
So, here are my questions for a member of Dev to answer. I doubt they will, but here they are. Oh, one little thing you may not realize reading that answer... If Lloyd is correct about how these champion points we are not getting will be distributed when VRanks are removed those VR1s that got free points now and go on leveling (and earning points while leveling) will gain even more points for free (when their levels are converted). Isn't that nice?2 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭so you do realize we re only mad because we did extra quests that we were told we would get exp that we cant do now....that everyone else can still do ? some of you are still defending that choice on the companies part. its selfish to defend that. i dont care how many champion points i get or anyone else gets.....i just dont want to be at a disadvantage down the road....which we will be in the current system.6
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All I'd like to know is can you reset the quests as we can get the xp from discovering and questing again?
Or can we have a couple more character slots for "loyalty" reward or something to give us a couple more characters to quest with?-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC4 -
Sindala✭✭✭✭✭It's ok Gina, i'll go ahead and answer this one for you.
No.
and......No. Being First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.2 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh, I'm fairly certain that 1. they aren't going to answer any of my questions (from this post or the last in this thread) straight or at all and 2. the answer to those would be anything but no. They really don't care how unfair this is to those of us that have earned 13m (x however many vet characters) that we cannot re-earn. It's an amplified version of what happened with undaunted passives and a couple other roll-outs they did in the past.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC6 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh, I'm fairly certain that 1. they aren't going to answer any of my questions (from this post or the last in this thread) straight or at all and 2. the answer to those would be anything but no. They really don't care how unfair this is to those of us that have earned 13m (x however many vet characters) that we cannot re-earn. It's an amplified version of what happened with undaunted passives and a couple other roll-outs they did in the past.
Yup. they don't learn from past mistakes.
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XGP✭✭Hello all,
The sole reason why we do Quests is to level up our skill lines, our vet ranks, and our skills to morph. I think everyone that has done all the quests in the game and finished everything has been rewarded with skill points, atribution points, dye colors, and the titles. These's where the reasons for completeing the game for those mile stones and rewards. You can complain about every little detail but it will not change the overall outcome. Be glad that we are getting Champion points.
I my self have completed most of the game content. But you guys are also missing the one importand thing even if you complete everything now and don't have much to do they will release more content with more dyes more achivements more quests for you to level. So just be patient more will come when its supposed to.10
