Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

Kiash · April 2014

No

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Kiash wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Kiash wrote: »

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

No.

You need to read the dev tracker.

Do you believe everything you read?

Oh yes because the devs are lying.

Your words, not mine. I just don't think we are getting the whole story here.

Taonnor · April 2014

No

Why we not see the number of caps in tooltips?

Zargorius · April 2014

No

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

That is not all. All is that Zenimax didn't think necessary to inform people that there were caps on AoE abilities and let them believe there were none.
Now that the info spreads we will see how this affects the PvP landscape but it can only get worse imho.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · April 2014

No

Zargorius wrote: »

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

That is not all. All is that Zenimax didn't think necessary to inform people that there were caps on AoE abilities and let them believe there were none.
Now that the info spreads we will see how this affects the PvP landscape but it can only get worse imho.

Zenimax doesnt care about the PvP landscape, thats why the game is balanced for PvE. Not surprising since it is a PvE first game.

Lowbei · April 2014

No

My guild has been bombing zergs for weeks, and I have NEVER noticed an aoe cap. So stating that its always been like this is ridiculous. We have 6v40d openfield with no siege and won and certainly saw no caps there.

To claim that we shouldnt be upset about this massive dealbreaker is dumb.

If the patch goes thru like this, then the game will drop from three to only one populated pvp campaign. How sad for month two.

How patheticly sad that a game with years of potential failed on the first month because the devs didnt care what the players wanted despite seeing our outrage.

Zargorius · April 2014

No

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

That is not all. All is that Zenimax didn't think necessary to inform people that there were caps on AoE abilities and let them believe there were none.
Now that the info spreads we will see how this affects the PvP landscape but it can only get worse imho.

Zenimax doesnt care about the PvP landscape, thats why the game is balanced for PvE. Not surprising since it is a PvE first game.

PvE first but without PvE endgame...mad world.

Mykah · April 2014

Yes

Jackiepvp wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pryda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o&hd=1

Future of the game if you don't change this cap to 6 targets.

Oh look... a GW2 video.. oh i mean ESO video

How nice..

This is what GW2 looks like right now with its caps

Thanks ZoS for making this game into a giant turd like GW2

And that.. is right now in live with a few unlimited AoE skills flying about. Once those skills also become capped.. our raid will be immortal to anything, assuming we are still subbed that is.

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

Oh thats right, youd spread out or get one shotted.

Sorcs and DKs are pretending they should be ballistas on steroids and that makes the game "skill based".

There are AE caps on skills for a reason. There are siege weapons available to all classes and builds for a reason.

Zargorius · April 2014

No

Mykah wrote: »

Jackiepvp wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pryda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o&hd=1

Future of the game if you don't change this cap to 6 targets.

Oh look... a GW2 video.. oh i mean ESO video

How nice..

This is what GW2 looks like right now with its caps

Thanks ZoS for making this game into a giant turd like GW2

And that.. is right now in live with a few unlimited AoE skills flying about. Once those skills also become capped.. our raid will be immortal to anything, assuming we are still subbed that is.

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

Oh thats right, youd spread out or get one shotted.

Sorcs and DKs are pretending they should be ballistas on steroids and that makes the game "skill based".

There are AE caps on skills for a reason. There are siege weapons available to all classes and builds for a reason.

So you want this to be Elder Siege Online. Got it. Still prefer Scorched Earth more though.

Taonnor · April 2014

No

Mykah wrote: »

Jackiepvp wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pryda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o&hd=1

Future of the game if you don't change this cap to 6 targets.

Oh look... a GW2 video.. oh i mean ESO video

How nice..

This is what GW2 looks like right now with its caps

Thanks ZoS for making this game into a giant turd like GW2

And that.. is right now in live with a few unlimited AoE skills flying about. Once those skills also become capped.. our raid will be immortal to anything, assuming we are still subbed that is.

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

Oh thats right, youd spread out or get one shotted.

Sorcs and DKs are pretending they should be ballistas on steroids and that makes the game "skill based".

There are AE caps on skills for a reason. There are siege weapons available to all classes and builds for a reason.

Can you hit a running turtle on field with ballistas?

legiont666ub17_ESO · April 2014

No

Mykah wrote: »

Jackiepvp wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pryda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o&hd=1

Future of the game if you don't change this cap to 6 targets.

Oh look... a GW2 video.. oh i mean ESO video

How nice..

This is what GW2 looks like right now with its caps

Thanks ZoS for making this game into a giant turd like GW2

And that.. is right now in live with a few unlimited AoE skills flying about. Once those skills also become capped.. our raid will be immortal to anything, assuming we are still subbed that is.

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

Oh thats right, youd spread out or get one shotted.

Sorcs and DKs are pretending they should be ballistas on steroids and that makes the game "skill based".

There are AE caps on skills for a reason. There are siege weapons available to all classes and builds for a reason.

Because the entire aspect of PVP should revolve around people setting up seige weapons in between keeps watch out for this guy.

Tankqull · April 2014

No

Mykah wrote: »

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

stay out of los - "problem" solved. btw they are caped as well on the pts

Zargorius · April 2014

No

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

stay out of los - "problem" solved. btw they are caped as well on the pts

Hang on, siege is caped as well? Are you *** kidding?

driosketch · April 2014

The sad part is some people are still posting like AoE caps are new. This whole time you've been paying with caps and you didn't even notice. Don't believe anyone who tells you anecdotally that such and such skill has no cap now unless they have video evidence proving it. People are claiming no cap on skills that have been shown do in fact have caps. Some people can't admit they don't know what they're talking about. That's not even a debate as the head of a certain guild has already issued a partial retraction of the initial post to say they are now aware that only a few skills are in fact uncapped.

It was misleading lies and speculation that started this panic. There was never any hard facts or testing done. I know personally that the PTS had barely gone live when they came screaming on the forums that they had just tested every skill and found they all had brand new caps. In fact, all they had was a knee jerk reaction to a misreading of the patch notes.

TL/DR: You were lied to by certain PTS testers who caused a panic based on ignorance.

PS, now that caps are more commonly known because of all the attention brought to the issue, it has ironically caused the stat of of the very meta play they were trying to prevent.

PPS, all siege is not meant only for keeps. At least one in each class is designed for troops. Use it.

ChairGraveyard · April 2014

No

neuroelectub17_ESO wrote: »

Just say NO to turtling.

Every game I've ever played that had or implemented full on aoe caps turned into a turtling joke in pvp. Everyone gets bored quickly and just quits the game.

100% agreed - turtling is ***.

It's also exploiting, though (exploiting broken mechanics to be invincible = exploiting/cheating).

Also, it's pretty easy to tell the handful of "Yes" votes are from people who just want to exploit and cheat in PvP using stacking/turtling.

RaZaddha · April 2014

No

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

Your post is stupid, you do realize that the only way to fight a ZERG in PvP with this AoE cap is for EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE to have nothing but AoE..

I always thought that stupid is...

...Tearing your shirt off and going around screaming that the world is going to end because a certain change is going to happen...

...And then get the confirmation the game has always been like this.

This only gives a way to evaluate most of the "feedback" we are seeing in this thread:

Ppl that have no clue on how the game is already working and that fabricate what could happen based on what 1 or 2 persons say...

...This entire thread is just a memee chorus of ppl singing the song some persons teached them.

In fact, this is preccissely what should encourage to extend the CAP to broken AOE skills and should serve any1 to spot which players are really expecting to see a change on their gameplay and why they complain.

The rest of the "zerg vs AOE" analysis/complains, etc... Come from the usual suspects... The ones that on a given combat system have the option to do DPS outside AOE...

...Which simply turns this into our old friend "ranged vs melee" debate.

EDIT: I just hope ESO Devs have learned a valuable lesson on why "feedback" coming from a certain type of player has to be taken with...

...A truckload of salt .

PEOPLE.DIDN'T.KNEW. There was a cap. I didn't think there was a cap, my friends didn't, my guild didn't, nobody that I knew thougth there was a cap, when they said there was a cap already and a video showed confirmation of this we said a colossal "WTF?"
Nobody is saying theres no cap anymore aside from a few uninformed, what we want is no caps because THIS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o

Is ALREADY happening, this is on LIVE, not PTS, the turtling is starting, now that the population knows theres a cap the strategy will change and every organized guild will start to turtle, because their chances to stay alive longer increase the closer they are to each other.

Now, if we want to fight in the open field siege will be mandatory? The clunky slow as a snail siege that unless on a choke point is basically a sitting duck? Good luck with Elder Siege Online...

Razeo · April 2014

No

This is exactly why I can't wait for Camelot Unchained. Its gonna be a breath of fresh air after being suffocated by current MMo companies who cater to the lemmings that Blizzard has brought into the genre and corporate parent companies who only care about $$ instead of a quality game.

ChairGraveyard · April 2014

No

Zargorius wrote: »

Hang on, siege is caped as well? Are you *** kidding?

Doesn't surprise me. It's pretty obvious some turtling/stacking cheater got to ZOS and convinced them to implement this cap.

Easy enough to tell by all the people posting here with Yes votes, that seem suspiciously gleeful about the prospect of cheating via turtling/stacking.

LunaRae · April 2014

No

Nice post @RivenVII‌ - appreciate you shedding some light on PTS changes. The world is listening, lets hope Zenimax is as well

Lets hope for the best, everyone keep reposting on the web to get more people responding.

http://kotaku.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-mmo-log-i-suppose-i-should-be-1568384790

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2408df/aoe_nerfed_in_pts/

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/04/eso-target-caps/

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/forums/thread/411128/page/1

I'm sure there are many more websites, both large companies and small communities, that are eagerly waiting to hear from Zenimax and praying they reconsidering this change prior to implementing on live servers. As a melee night blade I know AoE is strong, but it's not so strong that I'd like to see it butchered like this. I know Zeni is hearing us (hence this change) they just need a little direction from the players and fans

ChairGraveyard · April 2014

No

RaZaddha wrote: »

Nobody is saying theres no cap anymore aside from a few uninformed, what we want is no caps because THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o

Is ALREADY happening, this is on LIVE, not PTS, the turtling is starting, now that the population knows theres a cap the strategy will change and every organized guild will start to turtle, because their chances to stay alive longer increase the closer they are to each other.

Now, if we want to fight in the open field siege will be mandatory? The clunky slow as a snail siege that unless on a choke point is basically a sitting duck? Good luck with Elder Siege Online...

Just like in GW2 - stacking cheaters everywhere abusing the AoE cap. Great.

Lowbei · April 2014

No

... been rolling 40+player zergs with 6 people and have NEVER seen an aoe cap yet, so you can stop this "theres always been caps" nonsense.

Jackiepvp · April 2014

No

Mykah wrote: »

Jackiepvp wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pryda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o&hd=1

Future of the game if you don't change this cap to 6 targets.

Oh look... a GW2 video.. oh i mean ESO video

How nice..

This is what GW2 looks like right now with its caps

Thanks ZoS for making this game into a giant turd like GW2

And that.. is right now in live with a few unlimited AoE skills flying about. Once those skills also become capped.. our raid will be immortal to anything, assuming we are still subbed that is.

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

Oh thats right, youd spread out or get one shotted.

Sorcs and DKs are pretending they should be ballistas on steroids and that makes the game "skill based".

There are AE caps on skills for a reason. There are siege weapons available to all classes and builds for a reason.

I doubt 6 ballistas would kill us. I dont know where you get this idea of "1 shot" but I imagine you know very little of what all the classes in teso have to offer in a defensive capacity. Most of you play a single class and know just a few things about that class, that turtle stacking is the result of knowing everything about the game, its fairly immortal short of us lagging.

People have already tried using siege to counter our raid, even in those fights we had oil/catas/ballistas on us, it hardly mattered.

Not to mention a game where the only way to beat the optimal player strategy is to use siege, is a fairly bad *pvp* game.

ChairGraveyard · April 2014

No

If the AoE cap isn't removed, I'm just going to go around in stealth and report every person that participates in stacking/turtling exploits.

Lowbei · April 2014

No

You zergers just love stacking up because you like touching each others butts.

Stop touching butts.

Sick_Mushroom · April 2014

Yes

??? lol ... they arent cap nothing ... this ever was capped ... just buggy and doesnt working as intended.
U need learn to read properly !

ChairGraveyard · April 2014

No

Sick_Mushroom wrote: »

??? lol ... they arent cap nothing ... this ever was capped ... just buggy and doesnt working as intended.
U need learn to read properly !

This is the type of person that wants AoE caps and stacking/turtling exploits in the game.

I rest my case.

Zolyok · April 2014

Yes

Beside the yes or no debate

Zeni didn't say anything about this and nobody is asking for an answer.
When i say answer i mean a yes or no but develloped.
I'd really like to have a real answer with explanation not a bot generated message like.

Mykah · April 2014

Yes

Jackiepvp wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

Jackiepvp wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pryda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o&hd=1

Future of the game if you don't change this cap to 6 targets.

Oh look... a GW2 video.. oh i mean ESO video

How nice..

This is what GW2 looks like right now with its caps

Thanks ZoS for making this game into a giant turd like GW2

And that.. is right now in live with a few unlimited AoE skills flying about. Once those skills also become capped.. our raid will be immortal to anything, assuming we are still subbed that is.

How would your little turtle raid strat do against 6 ballistas fired together?

Oh thats right, youd spread out or get one shotted.

Sorcs and DKs are pretending they should be ballistas on steroids and that makes the game "skill based".

There are AE caps on skills for a reason. There are siege weapons available to all classes and builds for a reason.

I doubt 6 ballistas would kill us. I dont know where you get this idea of "1 shot" but I imagine you know very little of what all the classes in teso have to offer in a defensive capacity. Most of you play a single class and know just a few things about that class, that turtle stacking is the result of knowing everything about the game, its fairly immortal short of us lagging.

People have already tried using siege to counter our raid, even in those fights we had oil/catas/ballistas on us, it hardly mattered.

Not to mention a game where the only way to beat the optimal player strategy is to use siege, is a fairly bad *pvp* game.

Lol yeah eating 6 ballista shots to the face is no big deal when you BS rhetoric on a forum.

Speaking of rhetoric, your last line there is pretty funny, if your fighting a zerg with a small group of players you'll need to use Siege, Positioning, hit and run, element of surprise, BALANCED group make up, every thing you can.

In the current system all you need is DK and Sorc vamps spamming Bat Swarm Pulsar Talons and Standard with a single Templar healbot aeing. THAT is a fairly bad *pvp* game you FOTM poser.

ChairGraveyard · April 2014

No

^^^ Stacking exploiters. LOL.

Looks like the thread needs a reminder.

Stacking/turtling exploiting exists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o

Above is an example of the end result of AoE caps. Super easy, super abuseable cheating built right into the game.

ZOS, don't ruin this game by making it trivial to cheat via turtling/stacking.

A vote "Yes" for AoE caps is a "Yes" vote for ***CHEATERS***.

Mykah · April 2014

Yes

Mykah wrote: »

There is nothing skill based about running into 100 players spamming 3 abilities and expecting to "skillfully" land 300 attacks every 5 seconds, that is what siege weapons are for. Note that siege weapons are stationary, require defense to hold, and can only be fired once every few seconds. Compare that to Sorc and DK AE which is mobile and spammable and clearly there is a balance issue.

Also I hear a lot of talk about how this will only help the zerg, it will destroy skill, ect ect. Ask yourselves, what about skill in a zerg vs zerg situation, (the MAJORITY of sieging going on in game) What kind of zerg did unlimited AE foster in the uncapped system? I'll tell you, it made stacking DK Sorc Vamps with a few Templar heal bots the end all be all makeup for any group size.

120v200 the AE spam makeup wins.
60v100 the AE spam makeup wins.
40v80 the AE spam makeup wins.
20v40 the AE spam makeup wins.
8v16 the AE spam makeup wins.
6v12 the AE spam makeup wins.

You guys seriously support this?

THIS is why they have an AE cap, its not to make sure the zerg crushes the little guy, its to make sure that different classes and builds are all viable in massive pvp. The vocal minority on this forum crying at the top of their little lungs are kidding themselves if they think its "skill" that was letting them nullify the efforts of a force five times their size, it was AE mechanics shredding through under-leveled players in mass that let them do it.

Pressing 1 button and directly damaging 100 other people is rediculous in a game where other builds can only damage one person at a time. This is not just a "leet small group" vs "nub zerg" issue, it is a zerg vs zerg issue, its a 12v12 issue, its a 6v12 issue. Its about creating a balance between all playstyles regardless of the numbers involved. Step back and look at the big picture here, the entire game does not revolve around you Sorc or DK ae spam, nor should it.

Its also funny these QQers havent touched this post because it cuts to the very core of the issue of WHY there needs to be a AE cap, CLASS BALANCE.

They are too busy screaming about the evil nub zerg trying to defend their 1 dimensional playstyle from being brought into line with all the other builds to see the big picture, this game was not built around your DK Sorc AE damage spam, get over yourselves.

legiont666ub17_ESO · April 2014

No

Mykah wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

There is nothing skill based about running into 100 players spamming 3 abilities and expecting to "skillfully" land 300 attacks every 5 seconds, that is what siege weapons are for. Note that siege weapons are stationary, require defense to hold, and can only be fired once every few seconds. Compare that to Sorc and DK AE which is mobile and spammable and clearly there is a balance issue.

Also I hear a lot of talk about how this will only help the zerg, it will destroy skill, ect ect. Ask yourselves, what about skill in a zerg vs zerg situation, (the MAJORITY of sieging going on in game) What kind of zerg did unlimited AE foster in the uncapped system? I'll tell you, it made stacking DK Sorc Vamps with a few Templar heal bots the end all be all makeup for any group size.

120v200 the AE spam makeup wins.
60v100 the AE spam makeup wins.
40v80 the AE spam makeup wins.
20v40 the AE spam makeup wins.
8v16 the AE spam makeup wins.
6v12 the AE spam makeup wins.

You guys seriously support this?

THIS is why they have an AE cap, its not to make sure the zerg crushes the little guy, its to make sure that different classes and builds are all viable in massive pvp. The vocal minority on this forum crying at the top of their little lungs are kidding themselves if they think its "skill" that was letting them nullify the efforts of a force five times their size, it was AE mechanics shredding through under-leveled players in mass that let them do it.

Pressing 1 button and directly damaging 100 other people is rediculous in a game where other builds can only damage one person at a time. This is not just a "leet small group" vs "nub zerg" issue, it is a zerg vs zerg issue, its a 12v12 issue, its a 6v12 issue. Its about creating a balance between all playstyles regardless of the numbers involved. Step back and look at the big picture here, the entire game does not revolve around you Sorc or DK ae spam, nor should it.

Its also funny these QQers havent touched this post because it cuts to the very core of the issue of WHY there needs to be a AE cap, CLASS BALANCE.

They are too busy screaming about the evil nub zerg trying to defened their 1 dimensional playstyle from being brought into line with all the other builds to see the big picture, this game was not built around your DK Sorc AE damage spam, get over yourselves.

they touched it many people touched it.