Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

Aletheides

No

The only way to avoid turtles is to have uncapped AOE abilities. Tutles ruin PvP and makes boring zerg spamming mandatory. AoE can be balanced or rather tuned individually with radius and effectiveness of individual skills.

Tankqull

No

well to be honest i do not understand ZOS.
alot of their developers come from a game dealing with spells and dmg in the best way jet to be seen in an mmo. but instead copying from there they copy from games that have been considered to have failed in those regards.

erikklerougeb16_ESO

No

I voted NO.
If you think AoE is too powerfull, reduce the damage but don't nerf the cap, i think it's stupid, besides, how will you decide who will take more damage ? The nearest to the AoE ? What if someone jump ?
(take example on Dark Age Of Camelot).

Misslol

No

moXrox wrote: »

A lot of them are probably comming from GW2, a very AoE heavy game. But only a few of them recognize the importance of SIEGE weapons in ESO. In GW2 the siege weapons dont play much of a role, wheras in ESO the Siege weapons DONT HAVE ANY AOE CAP and are important.

OMG how can you talk about GW2 and stating that siege weaps don't play much of a role... Arrow Carts in a T3 keep dismantled the fun at all..GW2 sieges have 50 people cap..well can we say they have a cap?
Still in GW2 the aoe cap made it the zerg feast cause that was an area assist game beacuse of that and noskillers exploited that stacking people to hell.
The aoe cap is dumb.. If u have 30 people in your aoe and cap is 6 the spell hit 6 RANDOM guys and if it has ticks the 2nd hit is other 6 guys and not necessarily the previous ones and your will counts ZERO in that cause you cannot select the target but the game do it for you.
DAOC was an heavy aoe game.. If you were sticked and afk a sorcerer would mezz you for 1 min and make u see the movie where your friends were slaughtered.

Nijjion

No

@Misslol / @moXrox GW2 is joked by a lot people as 'Arrow Cart Wars'... think it's called that for a reason haha

----

Aside from that people should look at how DAoC vs GW2 RvR was. It's like day and night difference with how AoE is and DAoC did it better. Granted DAoC has better healing than ESO but that's due to the healing being tailored to console players so they had to noobify it. (Simple fix would be to make it heal group members first over randoms)

I despise the cheap tactics that GW2 birthed, it has and will be the plague to mmo communities. Shouldn't handcuff people... damn games going all call of duty that like to shrink the skill caps in games.

Dudis

No

I just assumed that AoEs were uncapped since well, that's how it should be.

I've never bombed a zerg in this game and while i do have bat swarm slotted on my melee bar, it's there as a last resort when i need some extra damage and survivability. It does for me what i think an ult is supposed to do. I generally don't fight more than 1-3 people at once since i run mostly solo.

I just disagree with the direction they want to take the game in, caving in to the bads that would rather have stuff nerfed than learn how to deal with them etc.

From the beginning, I loved this game because they dared to take things to the extreme.
You die fast but have strong healing and other defensive/escape abilities.
There are seemingly OP abilities but also easily available hard counters to them.
I do agree that some things needs to be adjusted though, Ultimate Cost Reduction for one and Mist Form could use a nerf aswell as maybe some other abilities.


Simply put, the game dares to punish you for being stupid. They are now starting to change this to cater to the wrong people. Say what you want about them needing the subs. Dumbing the game down, making it boring for everyone in the end won't help either.

Back on topic: Having artificial caps on AoE is just plain dumb imo.



Here's a fun vid for you since you started talking about daoc
(skip to 1 minute in for the first bomb)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI250gU4Ct8#t=1m3s

Kiash

No

Let me make this very clear to you ZOS: As much of a fan of this game as I am, if you introduce an AoE cap, I'll most likely quit and take my friends with me. The AoE cap ruined GW2 WvW, if you want to promote zerging, fine, but don't do it with an AoE cap that forces everyone to zerg.

I can't believe you are even considering this, it's the worst idea you have had yet.

This seriously makes me physically sick that I have to wake up and read this. It's like someone giving you a diamond ring then taking the diamond off the ring and just leaving you with a crappy band.

Adwaenyth

No

Even the so evil and malicious bat swarm isn't that op if you just remove the cost reduction. But a total AOE cap on all spells ist outright BAD for a game.

If you have to resort to this kind of mechanics to balance the game, it is just utterly wrong.

DAoC - as this is where at least some of the devs are coming from - has worked just well with all that AoE and PBAoE in game.

And saying that you should survive just because you have more numbers is plain bad. Seriously.
Where on earth is the fun in PvP when you just need to bring more people to win? That is the single most boring thing I've yet to experience in a game. Also it leaves an underpopulated factions at an even worse impass than the more populated ones.

For someone who is enjoying to beat the odds it is just unsatisfying to have that thrown upon you, because they're now stacking the odds even more against you.

And yes, leaving the game is an option I'd like to use last. However, if this goes live I feel that I might have to - which I would regret, since I felt the game was really beautiful - but I will do. Just having an enjoyable PvE content isn't worth the subscription for me.
In any case anyone wants to tell me that threatening with this is sad. - It's not a threat. I loved the game so far and I'd like to continue playing it, THAT is why I am telling this. To make everyone think about it again, since a person that cares for the game considers leaving because of that change. I do hope they reconsider - although I doubt it.

It's been a fun month so far, but if this continues, I'll go back to single player Elder Scrolls games and go look for a different MMO.

ragamerb16_ESO

Yes

Your post is stupid, you do realize that the only way to fight a ZERG in PvP with this AoE cap is for EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE to have nothing but AoE..

I always thought that stupid is...

...Tearing your shirt off and going around screaming that the world is going to end because a certain change is going to happen...

...And then get the confirmation the game has always been like this.

This only gives a way to evaluate most of the "feedback" we are seeing in this thread:

Ppl that have no clue on how the game is already working and that fabricate what could happen based on what 1 or 2 persons say...

...This entire thread is just a memee chorus of ppl singing the song some persons teached them.

In fact, this is preccissely what should encourage to extend the CAP to broken AOE skills and should serve any1 to spot which players are really expecting to see a change on their gameplay and why they complain.

The rest of the "zerg vs AOE" analysis/complains, etc... Come from the usual suspects... The ones that on a given combat system have the option to do DPS outside AOE...

...Which simply turns this into our old friend "ranged vs melee" debate.


EDIT: I just hope ESO Devs have learned a valuable lesson on why "feedback" coming from a certain type of player has to be taken with...

...A truckload of salt .

Lowbei

No

m

Dudis

No

Does it really matter though, how it already is/was when people don't seem to want a cap to begin with?

I don't even use AoE in this game but I see why capping it is a terrible thing to do.

Adwaenyth

No

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

In fact, this is preccissely what should encourage to extend the CAP to broken AOE skills and should serve any1 to spot which players are really expecting to see a change on their gameplay and why they complain.

The rest of the "zerg vs AOE" analysis/complains, etc... Come from the usual suspects... The ones that on a given combat system have the option to do DPS outside AOE...

...Which simply turns this into our old friend "ranged vs melee" debate.


EDIT: I just hope ESO Devs have learned a valuable lesson on why "feedback" coming from a certain type of player has to be taken with...

...A truckload of salt .

The problem with 6 people max target of any AOE makes the gameplay utterly static.

Everyone just needs to clump up and stick to the zerg without giving much thought about anything.

Zerg gameplay hasn't been that much fun to begin with, but not being able to do much about it except using the same static gameplay is rather game breaking.

If you just look at how the game is atm, it is just like that. Even WITH the bat swarm it is like that.
The problem is not the bat swarm per se even. Removing the cost reduction from it or preventing people from casting other spells while it is running and the bat swarm problem is fixed.

prana33b14_ESO

No

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

...Tearing your shirt off and going around screaming that the world is going to end because a certain change is going to happen...

...And then get the confirmation the game has always been like this.

This only gives a way to evaluate most of the "feedback" we are seeing in this thread:

Ppl that have no clue on how the game is already working and that fabricate what could happen based on what 1 or 2 persons say...

...This entire thread is just a memee chorus of ppl singing the song some persons teached them.

In fact, this is preccissely what should encourage to extend the CAP to broken AOE skills and should serve any1 to spot which players are really expecting to see a change on their gameplay and why they complain.

The rest of the "zerg vs AOE" analysis/complains, etc... Come from the usual suspects... The ones that on a given combat system have the option to do DPS outside AOE...

...Which simply turns this into our old friend "ranged vs melee" debate.


EDIT: I just hope ESO Devs have learned a valuable lesson on why "feedback" coming from a certain type of player has to be taken with...

...A truckload of salt .

I hope you stick around and take your licks when the pvp turns to utter crap. People weren't playing the GW2 ball style of play because they didn't think there was a cap yet. The game is early and everything TESO devs led us to believe leading up to release pointed to AOE like DAOC with no caps.

I'll be quoting these lol posts when the forums are full of whiners complaining about breaking up the zerg because it's BORING.

If the TESO devs have some assurances in place to avoid the GW2 playstyle now is the time to make a statement imo.

prana33b14_ESO

No

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

...Tearing your shirt off and going around screaming that the world is going to end because a certain change is going to happen...

...And then get the confirmation the game has always been like this.

This only gives a way to evaluate most of the "feedback" we are seeing in this thread:

Ppl that have no clue on how the game is already working and that fabricate what could happen based on what 1 or 2 persons say...

...This entire thread is just a memee chorus of ppl singing the song some persons teached them.

In fact, this is preccissely what should encourage to extend the CAP to broken AOE skills and should serve any1 to spot which players are really expecting to see a change on their gameplay and why they complain.

The rest of the "zerg vs AOE" analysis/complains, etc... Come from the usual suspects... The ones that on a given combat system have the option to do DPS outside AOE...

...Which simply turns this into our old friend "ranged vs melee" debate.


EDIT: I just hope ESO Devs have learned a valuable lesson on why "feedback" coming from a certain type of player has to be taken with...

...A truckload of salt .

I hope you stick around and take your licks when the pvp turns to utter crap. People weren't playing the GW2 ball style of play because they didn't think there was a cap yet. The game is early and everything TESO devs led us to believe leading up to release pointed to AOE like DAOC with no caps. Now that this is out in the open, any raid leader worth a crap will have their raid standing on each other in one big ball. They will wreck anyone with lower numbers.

I'll be quoting these lol posts when the forums are full of whiners complaining about how they need to do something to break up the zerg because it's BORING just like the GW2 forums were for months.

If the TESO devs have some assurances in place to avoid the GW2 playstyle now is the time to make a statement imo. Or maybe someone here that voted YES can actually explain these mechanics to us?!?!

ElderScrollsUserID

No

Just make it like in wow. Put a dmg/heal cap, but AOE needs to touch all targets, else its just silly. Realism, always more realism.

Feidam

Zargorius wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

It just amazes me how up in arms this community gets over little things. There are other methods to deal with zergs like the use of siege. What we really see here is people wanting a group of 5 to take out a group of 40 and walk away unscathed. However, if you utilize choke points and all available tools you'll be able to make a serious dent in a passing Zerg, but your odds of escaping are lessened. Granted those numbers are made up, but the point stands.

Furthermore, I think it needs to be said again that the caps are already in place on the majority of skills. Someone LoL'd me for saying that earlier but it is true and everyone has already been dealing with the caps save for a select number of broken abilities.

Except before most people didn't know it. Now that the cap starts to get widely known just watch the tactics evolve towards the zerg balls. I just hope to be wrong.

Again use siege. Also, it's not like only 6 people are going to get hit by multiple people using aoe. If these zero balls start to become an issue they can always change the aoe caps at a later date.

prana33b14_ESO

No

Feidam wrote: »

Again use siege. Also, it's not like only 6 people are going to get hit by multiple people using aoe. If these zero balls start to become an issue they can always change the aoe caps at a later date.

Siege is for...sieging and yes you are right 6 people will get hit by one person's aoe. A healer will heal them with one heal. 6 OTHER people will get by another's aoe. A healer will heal them with one heal. The rare chance 2 or 3 people's aoe hits one or two players instead of other randoms, they may get a kill. Neither of these scenarios allows the smaller group to accomplish anything before getting run over.

Adwaenyth

No

Feidam wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

It just amazes me how up in arms this community gets over little things. There are other methods to deal with zergs like the use of siege. What we really see here is people wanting a group of 5 to take out a group of 40 and walk away unscathed. However, if you utilize choke points and all available tools you'll be able to make a serious dent in a passing Zerg, but your odds of escaping are lessened. Granted those numbers are made up, but the point stands.

Furthermore, I think it needs to be said again that the caps are already in place on the majority of skills. Someone LoL'd me for saying that earlier but it is true and everyone has already been dealing with the caps save for a select number of broken abilities.

Except before most people didn't know it. Now that the cap starts to get widely known just watch the tactics evolve towards the zerg balls. I just hope to be wrong.

Again use siege. Also, it's not like only 6 people are going to get hit by multiple people using aoe. If these zero balls start to become an issue they can always change the aoe caps at a later date.

Erhm. You think that if they dumbed it down once, they're going to make zerging more difficult again!?

Feidam

Adwaenyth wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

Feidam wrote: »

It just amazes me how up in arms this community gets over little things. There are other methods to deal with zergs like the use of siege. What we really see here is people wanting a group of 5 to take out a group of 40 and walk away unscathed. However, if you utilize choke points and all available tools you'll be able to make a serious dent in a passing Zerg, but your odds of escaping are lessened. Granted those numbers are made up, but the point stands.

Furthermore, I think it needs to be said again that the caps are already in place on the majority of skills. Someone LoL'd me for saying that earlier but it is true and everyone has already been dealing with the caps save for a select number of broken abilities.

Except before most people didn't know it. Now that the cap starts to get widely known just watch the tactics evolve towards the zerg balls. I just hope to be wrong.

Again use siege. Also, it's not like only 6 people are going to get hit by multiple people using aoe. If these zero balls start to become an issue they can always change the aoe caps at a later date.

Erhm. You think that if they dumbed it down once, they're going to make zerging more difficult again!?

I think they will do what is beneficial for their game. MMORPG's change all the time. I've also played and loved daoc for many years. It is my favorite mmo. I've been around the RvR style block. This game is designed for large scale war. Not pocket war. If you came to this game expecting small group skirmishes to be the norm it is way to early in this games life for that to happen. Also, anyone that has used an addon to see their damage numbers has known for awhile that most of their aoe was capped. It was obvious even in the beta.

I do think the tooltips should have stated that though.

There are problems with uncapped aoe as well. People seem to forget in the early days of daoc aoe didn't have fall off as you moved from the epicenter of the spell. That came later as aoe had become king. If you will notice I have not voted in this poll because the choice I don't care isn't there. There are pros and cons to both systems. All we know is contrary to constant spewing of misinformation from vocal people there are already caps in game on live. My guild has been testing for verification since the little blow up. Also, currently, on live we know that well place siege shot into a tightly grouped clump of players will severely hurt those players. If the choose not to leave their little ball they will die.

ragamerb16_ESO

Yes

Sorry for changing the order while adressing multiple posters... But I prefer to talk per subject:

The problem is not the bat swarm per se even. Removing the cost reduction from it or preventing people from casting other spells while it is running and the bat swarm problem is fixed.

Self healing scaling based on nearby targets, It's always a problem. In fact, Inhale, has been nerfed twice because precissely this. The problem is a numerical one... With enough mitigation you can enjoy effective immunity very easily. The real question, in my case is... If Inhale was so closely monitorized (even on beta), why Bat Swarm hasn't?

The problem with 6 people max target of any AOE makes the gameplay utterly static.

I hope you stick around and take your licks when the pvp turns to utter crap.

The question is... Why haven't you noticed this "dramatic problem" until some1 says... "HEY! THEY ARE GOING TO NERF AOE".

That's the issue about all this cries... If they weren't noticing it before means it was a correct mechanic to start with... ONLY ppl abusing this mechanic on specific powers that have created a winning recipe around them are the ones Doomsaying left and right.

You know... It's the real joke about PvP on MMOs... It's killed by the players that claim want to PvP, then go around left and right like parrots repeating the same memes they learned somewhere "PvP is dynamic... Unpredictable... Skill based"...

...And then they tear the world down each time a fixed, easily repeteable recipe is taken down by Devs... Or when their prefered way to avoid PvP until 50 is nerfed.

We will get the PvP we deserve... Shaped not my whinning threads like this, based on assumptions and lacking real feedback...

...But by our actions on the field, how we really fight (Instead of claiming how we should)...

...Want interesting PvP? Start by stopping fighting like bots using 2 buttons following the current FOTM.

xeoneexb14_ESO

No

moXrox wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

moXrox wrote: »

Most of those who did vote NO dont really care about AoE caps.

90% of the players here dont even know that we have caps already ingame for most abilities. Or probably a big amount who did vote NO dont even care that we have AoE caps.

A lot of them are probably comming from GW2, a very AoE heavy game. But only a few of them recognize the importance of SIEGE weapons in ESO. In GW2 the siege weapons dont play much of a role, wheras in ESO the Siege weapons DONT HAVE ANY AOE CAP and are important.

What about you think about your no-skill "elite" tactic, using the following combos to mow down other players :

/Talons
/Impulse
/Bat Swarms

The most powerfull skills are the most easy ones to use and this is just wrong.


Here you have the proof, AoE cap before the new announced chat - nobody of the voter here did care about an AoE cap before. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHwbrXNfbNM


Thank you to cuddler for this video.

Still doesn't change the fact that now we will have turtling zerg wars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o

I think most people didn't knew about the cap, so thats why that we know there is a cap the rage has started.

diminishing returns on AoE and you will probably not see such pvp.

So fix the diminishing returns on the current AoE system NOT reducing the amount of players it HITS. Obviously you and every other dimwit that voted yes never played DAoC. That game is practically identical to this in terms of PVP. The same fricking guy is the head of that department. THEY didn't nerf AoE in DAoC and that game did perfectly fine. I never played GW2, I've played DAoC. I KNOW what I'm talking about when I say this is a VERY bad idea. It not only causes massive turtles, it prevents them from being broken. Because of the fact zergs will realize that they can't be broken, this pvp system will be token from the day they implement the system to the day this game fails, which wont be long.

prana33b14_ESO

No

I haven't noticed because I'm level 17 and haven't had time to play yet because of working 12+ hour days this spring. This is not relevant anyway as we are now talking what will become of pvp now that it is known. I'm not talking from any pvp experience in this game yet besides the betas I played. However, I played and watched as GW2 became zerg balls running into zerg balls then quit.

I already asked what this game is doing different that will create a different gameplay experience than GW2 despite the caps. Instead of strawmanning this into everyone clamoring is mad because they use aoe, how about answering this question? What is different in this game than GW2 that will alleviate the zerg issue? Siege isn't the answer.

Tankqull

No

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

The problem with 6 people max target of any AOE makes the gameplay utterly static.

I hope you stick around and take your licks when the pvp turns to utter crap.

The question is... Why haven't you noticed this "dramatic problem" until some1 says... "HEY! THEY ARE GOING TO NERF AOE".

That's the issue about all this cries... If they weren't noticing it before means it was a correct mechanic to start with... ONLY ppl abusing this mechanic on specific powers that have created a winning recipe around them are the ones Doomsaying left and right.

because the abilitys to bust zergs currently are not.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

No

Its pretty apparent that Zenimax is balancing to PvE not to some PvP whiners.

xeoneexb14_ESO

No

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

Your post is stupid, you do realize that the only way to fight a ZERG in PvP with this AoE cap is for EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE to have nothing but AoE..

I always thought that stupid is...

...Tearing your shirt off and going around screaming that the world is going to end because a certain change is going to happen...

...And then get the confirmation the game has always been like this.

This only gives a way to evaluate most of the "feedback" we are seeing in this thread:

Ppl that have no clue on how the game is already working and that fabricate what could happen based on what 1 or 2 persons say...

...This entire thread is just a memee chorus of ppl singing the song some persons teached them.

In fact, this is preccissely what should encourage to extend the CAP to broken AOE skills and should serve any1 to spot which players are really expecting to see a change on their gameplay and why they complain.

The rest of the "zerg vs AOE" analysis/complains, etc... Come from the usual suspects... The ones that on a given combat system have the option to do DPS outside AOE...

...Which simply turns this into our old friend "ranged vs melee" debate.


EDIT: I just hope ESO Devs have learned a valuable lesson on why "feedback" coming from a certain type of player has to be taken with...

...A truckload of salt .

Guess what, not all of us are AoE junkies. I'm pure single target melee and I can definatly see this is a VERY bad idea. You can put diminishing returns on AoE's, and reduce the overall damage on them to fix this issue, putting a hardcap on numbers makes it very hard to break up a turtle. I've seen crazy *** in DAoC where you had 200+ fights and the massive AoE's going off, EVERYBODY would attempt to dodge the AoE. If you are stupid enough to be caught in an AoE and not run then you deserve to die. I've played since beta and I never saw much of the turtle zerg going on. I played PvP quite extensively. I haven't touched PvP since release only because I wanted to reach max level or close to it before I did. I'm curious now as to how bad turtling has become in PvP. The PvP system is one of the main factors I am playing this right now. It's SOOO reminescent of DAoC's style. There are alot of skills that need tweaking and fixing, do that FIRST, don't put a damn hard cap on the number of targets you can hit... This is just stupid and they deserve to fail hard if they make this decision.

"

savak

Yes

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

Kiash

No

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

No.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

No

Kiash wrote: »

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

No.

You need to read the dev tracker.

Kiash

No

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Kiash wrote: »

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

No.

You need to read the dev tracker.

Do you believe everything you read?

Ragnar_Lodbrok

No

Kiash wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Kiash wrote: »

savak wrote: »

Once again... There are already caps in game, they just weren't advertised. Some abilities were bugged and they are now being fixed. That is all.

No.

You need to read the dev tracker.

Do you believe everything you read?

Oh yes because the devs are lying.