Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

Xsorus

No

Justiwutz wrote: »

I like posts that start with "an AOE cap has never existed", followed by a video proving it exists. Funny.

Should it exist? That's absolutly impossible to say. AOE caps avoid a lot of issues. In theory, it would be possible for 5 man to wipe an entire raid. Sure, it's the raids fault for standing like that, but the possibility is something that's not really required.
On the other hand, the AOE cap causes these stacking issues.

I actually like the WoW AOE cap, where most skills are limited at 10 targets and targets above 10 will SPLIT the damage, meaning 20 targets take the same total damage as 10 targets.

EDIT: That means if 2 raids decide to stack, they will still die. Even an 80 man raid would only split the damage "down" to 1/8 of the original, but with another 80 man raid dealing that damage, both sides would die.

Dragonknight Standard/Inhale/Burning Talon doesn't have it
Templar Blazing Spear/Remembrance isn't capped
restro staff, healing spring seems to be capped at 12

BumboklatMon

No

Mykah wrote: »

There is nothing skill based about running into 100 players spamming 3 abilities and expecting to "skillfully" land 300 attacks every 5 seconds, that is what siege weapons are for. Note that siege weapons are stationary, require defense to hold, and can only be fired once every few seconds. Compare that to Sorc and DK AE which is mobile and spammable and clearly there is a balance issue.

Also I hear a lot of talk about how this will only help the zerg, it will destroy skill, ect ect. Ask yourselves, what about skill in a zerg vs zerg situation, (the MAJORITY of sieging going on in game) What kind of zerg did unlimited AE foster in the uncapped system? I'll tell you, it made stacking DK Sorc Vamps with a few Templar heal bots the end all be all makeup for any group size.

120v200 the AE spam makeup wins.
60v100 the AE spam makeup wins.
40v80 the AE spam makeup wins.
20v40 the AE spam makeup wins.
8v16 the AE spam makeup wins.
6v12 the AE spam makeup wins.

You guys seriously support this?

THIS is why they have an AE cap, its not to make sure the zerg crushes the little guy, its to make sure that different classes and builds are all viable in massive pvp. The vocal minority on this forum crying at the top of their little lungs are kidding themselves if they think its "skill" that was letting them nullify the efforts of a force five times their size, it was AE mechanics shredding through under-leveled players in mass that let them do it.

Pressing 1 button and directly damaging 100 other people is rediculous in a game where other builds can only damage one person at a time. This is not just a "leet small group" vs "nub zerg" issue, it is a zerg vs zerg issue, its a 12v12 issue, its a 6v12 issue. Its about creating a balance between all playstyles regardless of the numbers involved. Step back and look at the big picture here, the entire game does not revolve around you Sorc or DK ae spam, nor should it.

Please disregard this post.

BumboklatMon

No

Everyone who is crying about AOE. Needs to learn how to play, there are multiple ways to counter an aoe make up group. Shields, Caltrops, Runes, Stunlocks, etc etc etc. If they do not know how to utilize this then maybe they shouldn't be pvp'ing...


PLEASE DON'T GIVE IN TO THE CRYING BADDIES!!!!
I WILL GIVE YOU $15 A MONTH!!!

savak

Yes

Guys, zenimax has already stated that caps are already in the game, and some have been BUGGED and are getting fixed. That is all. So please stop crying. If you really can't use siege or think of others specs to play then please follow on your threats and unsub already.

ChairGraveyard

No

I really wish stacking cheaters weren't brigading this thread.

Dorado

No

I've never understood why any game would choose to artificially limit an area effect ability of any kind (whether it's AoE, PBAoE, or target-able). If an enemy/target is in the area of effect then it should hit, period. If targets don't want to get hit by the ability, move out of the area. Simple.

Many have already said this... there is a simple counter to AoE's, spread out. If your only tactic is to army zerg rush you should be burned to a crisp in all the AoE's that can be brought to bare on your silly tactic. With this nerf you'll be able to stand in red circles all day and possibly never get hit.

This seems to me like a knee jerk reaction and a quick fix dev hack to a problem with current meta. If devs feel people are abusing area effect abilities, then design the abilities smarter, don't make an artificial cap to their effectiveness. I've seen many games do this kind of thing and I've always felt it was a lazy solution to a perceived problem that ultimately only made game play worse.

I really hope more people see this poll/thread and vote on it so it'll stay at the top of recent discussion. I also hope that enough people will respond to this so that perhaps devs will rethink this knee jerk hack of a solution.

pjr_99b14_ESO

No

From the Legend Gaming founder, Drahl.

Yes this has very bad ramifications on vokundein in Pvp. Our Pvp grps, being the premier Pvp force in TESO, rely on our organization and skill to take down massive zergs. With this, it'll make that much harder.

Yes dks need a nerf. They are the most overpowered Pvp class I've seen in 20 years of hardcore Pvp. But this is not how you fix them. I'll help ZOS out.

Below are the correct fixes:

1). Pboe CC - limited to 3 targets
2). Remove all ultimate reducing items and abilities
3). Ultimate points are no longer gained while an ultimate is active. So when an ultimate ends, you're at 0 ultimate.
4). Decrease pbaoe dmg based upon distance from caster. People next to caster take 100% dmg. Those further away take less (Daoc).
5). Introduce soft CC immunity


All problems solved.

I am on the same page with Drahl.

Aeekto

Yes

BumboklatMon wrote: »

Everyone who is crying about AOE. Needs to learn how to play, there are multiple ways to counter an aoe make up group. Shields, Caltrops, Runes, Stunlocks, etc etc etc. If they do not know how to utilize this then maybe they shouldn't be pvp'ing...


PLEASE DON'T GIVE IN TO THE CRYING BADDIES!!!!
I WILL GIVE YOU $15 A MONTH!!!

Crying about crying? .... made my day
This thread is an entire crying-fest about the Cap.

Actually it takes a lot more skill with a AOE-Cap.
You have to make wise decisions when and where you place your AOE and you need a lot more teamplay to focus the most dangerous enemies.... instead of simply run inside and AOE-Spam everyone to death (everyone is able to do it... that means, it´s no skill at all).

In short:
These AOE-nonCap-Spammer need to learn how to play since they lack a lot of skill and are only capable of spamming 1-2 Skills

prana33b14_ESO

No

savak wrote: »

Guys, zenimax has already stated that caps are already in the game, and some have been BUGGED and are getting fixed. That is all. So please stop crying. If you really can't use siege or think of others specs to play then please follow on your threats and unsub already.

It's not specs. It's how the meta will play out and devolve into gw2 style zerg balls to win. Quit strawmanning this into specs, fotm powergamers, or people trying for easy wins. These people are trying to improve pvp based on experience in other games. Look, I've barely gotten to play yet so I'm going to stick around a bit and give them a chance to prove us wrong but people quit in droves when this issue was not addressed in gw2 and that is f2p. People won't be paying 15 a month if it turns out that way.

Xsorus

No

pjr_99b14_ESO wrote: »

From the Legend Gaming founder, Drahl.

Yes this has very bad ramifications on vokundein in Pvp. Our Pvp grps, being the premier Pvp force in TESO, rely on our organization and skill to take down massive zergs. With this, it'll make that much harder.

Yes dks need a nerf. They are the most overpowered Pvp class I've seen in 20 years of hardcore Pvp. But this is not how you fix them. I'll help ZOS out.

Below are the correct fixes:

1). Pboe CC - limited to 3 targets
2). Remove all ultimate reducing items and abilities
3). Ultimate points are no longer gained while an ultimate is active. So when an ultimate ends, you're at 0 ultimate.
4). Decrease pbaoe dmg based upon distance from caster. People next to caster take 100% dmg. Those further away take less (Daoc).
5). Introduce soft CC immunity


All problems solved.

I am on the same page with Drahl.

i disagree with him, Clearly he's never seen a Bright Wizard

or played early game of DAOC and fought a Smite Cleric, or a Pre-Nerf post buff Valkyrie in DAOC

Xsorus

No

Aeekto wrote: »

BumboklatMon wrote: »

Everyone who is crying about AOE. Needs to learn how to play, there are multiple ways to counter an aoe make up group. Shields, Caltrops, Runes, Stunlocks, etc etc etc. If they do not know how to utilize this then maybe they shouldn't be pvp'ing...


PLEASE DON'T GIVE IN TO THE CRYING BADDIES!!!!
I WILL GIVE YOU $15 A MONTH!!!

Crying about crying? .... made my day
This thread is an entire crying-fest about the Cap.

Actually it takes a lot more skill with a AOE-Cap.
You have to make wise decisions when and where you place your AOE and you need a lot more teamplay to focus the most dangerous enemies.... instead of simply run inside and AOE-Spam everyone to death (everyone is able to do it... that means, it´s no skill at all).

In short:
These AOE-nonCap-Spammer need to learn how to play since they lack a lot of skill and are only capable of spamming 1-2 Skills

Actually you don't need more skill with an AoE cap, because the counter to AoE is having more then 6 people and standing on top of one another.

no amount of "placing" your AoE will change that. If no AOE cap was present, then yes...placing your AoE in the right spot is more meaningful...However AoE cap completely negates it.

The Wise Decision with the AoE cap is to simply avoid everyone with more people then you, and if they really outnumber you, just Log like everyone does in Guild Wars 2 when outnumbered.

Altros

No

I love all the people that think not having caps makes AoEs too powerful when you are free to move out of them. That zerg that got wrecked by 3 people got wrecked because they stood there and ate the AoEs.

Instead, they could have used strategy and had a few people with magelight guarding each entrance ready to knock any would be stealth bombers out of stealth. Instead, however, they decided to make a tight ball in one area and then not move once they started taking damage. If you don't use strategy and get stealth bombed because of it, that's your fault not the game's.

And for that one guy that wants people to post their class info: Bow, Nightblade, unturned and proud.

Asava

No

With an AoE cap then all bottle necks like holes in the wall, gates, bridges, walls will be utterly useless to defend. Attackers are supposed to have 3-1 odds against a defending enemy for it to be considered an acceptable risk for a reason. However, if caps are in place then 6 attacking people could effectively absorb the damage that defending aoe is throwing out at a bottle neck and then the rest of the attackers rush thru into the back lines of the defenders without being deterred. At least now when people are running thru they take damage and move or hold up until things quiet down. With caps in place it'll be a giant zerg ball moving together with no one dying and total numbers win the day. That really doesn't sound fun nor entertaining which is sad since this is a game.

awkwarrd

No

BumboklatMon wrote: »

HELL NO!


If you guys want to be like Blizzard and listen to all the crying from noobs then please do it but, I can guarantee YOU WILL LOSE SOOOO MANY PEOPLE....

A.O.E. - AREA OF EFFECT.... I thought you guys knew this...


if you dont have AOE you might as well call it;


H.L.P. - Hits Limited People... No one wants that crap!


Please don't ever do this. It was dumb to even consider it.


I'm sorry if I may come off harsh but don't ruin this game please... I've waited way to long and I'm happy right now. If you nerf AOE, you might as well make this game Free2Play.... -___________-

I couldn't help but laugh and nod slowly as i read this.

The more people you have, the more aoe you have.
Meaning the more people are effected by aoe.
So zerg it up, gw2 style.

A subscription game using freetoplay game mechanics.
If the players feedback to the aoe cap isn't recognized, then what's the point after that.
May aswell just go download a bot and let it play for you.

ChairGraveyard

No

Since ZOS seems to want to lift the worst ideas from GW2, let's give a list of other "features" from that game we'd like to see. /s

* AoE Cap
* Diminishing returns on quests (i.e., if you do one quest, the second and onward will give you 1/10th the XP, until you log out for 24 hours).
* Diminishing returns on loot (after you loot one enemy, no loot for 24h).
* Mystical Blacksmithing Station - instead of getting items from questing and fighting, all items come from the Mystical Blacksmithing Station, which is basically just like a slot machine except the odds are even WORSE.

Gwynde

No

I really hope ZOS listens to the players on this and doesn't add any AOE caps. There are ways to fight AOEs – move, spread out, interrupt. Intelligent play is a far more interesting way to lessen the impact of AOE rather than across the board nerfing by the devs.

And as a healer, I'm already limited by the fact that I can't target who I heal. Please don't limit my toolkit even further by limiting the number of targets for my AOE heals.

ShadowWolf81b14a_ESO

I can see a 'nerf' to AOE attacks being a 'short-sighted' way for a company new to the market of MMO's used to counter the RMT/Gold-farming *** we all know and hate.

But, this wont work if this is the main reason why they are thinking of making a AOE nerf such as this. All it will do is cause the RMT/Gold-Farming *** to use even MORE bots at one location to get around the 'number of targets' limit.

ie: if an AOE attack can only affect 3 mobs, but the RMT/Gold-Farming *** is trying to farm groups of 8 mobs. He'll simply add 3 more bots to his 'farming' group so ensure that at least SOME of those casts hit mobs that the others missed.

Nothing changes in terms of fighting the RMT/Gold-farming ***.

But, what DOES change, is the NORMAL game-play. Players who are NOT gold-farming/RMT ***.

So, what does it change for them?

Well in PVP it makes a HUGE change. Why?.. Well there will no be absolutly no reason at all 'not' to simply move around in 1 big 'blob'. There will be absolutly no reason to 'spread out' To keep from being hit by AOE's and seeing your entire party wyped out. Instead of seeing a 'wide-spread' battle in PVP... you'll see just a single 'blob' of players fighting with everyone stuck in 1 tight circle.

In PVE.. it'll make AOE's practically useless as a "oh ***" skill to use when things go wrong. Whats the point of useing a AOE Root as a 'pull back!' skill.. If only 2 of the 4 mobs rushing towards you are going to be affected?

If anything, i agree with what i saw someone else mention. Make the Magica used on the skill dicated by the number of targets in the area. Let mages decide if they want to specialize in 'wid-spread, but single-use' skills that take a long time to recover from, vs lots of little attacks.

Razeo

No

savak wrote: »

Guys, zenimax has already stated that caps are already in the game, and some have been BUGGED and are getting fixed. That is all. So please stop crying. If you really can't use siege or think of others specs to play then please follow on your threats and unsub already.

You honestly think there are non-Emp/Vamp classes out there who depend on AOE skills in PvP and expect results? AOE dmg in pvp unless your the 2 I just mentioned is crap in Cyrodiil, and if you've seen otherwise feel free to provide proof. And no, other than healing skills there are no dmg aoe caps in the game atm (its already been tested) and don't worry, if these changes do go through I and many others WILL unsub. I just hope you'll find some satisfaction on a very dead Cyrodiil.

w4rbossb16_ESO

No

Gisgo wrote: »

nacario1989neb18_ESO wrote: »

I think there should be an aoe cap. Certain classes have it to easy to just run around and spam their aoes with little effort and tactical thought, while they have better survivability. Classes like nightblade gets the short end of the stick.

Please speak for yourself i am a nightblade and im perfectly fine with AOE in its current form.
Stay out of it and live.

lol who will you kill with your nightblade when the whole map will be stacked on the same pixel. dolyaks??

CkniSa

No

if u find 100 players stacked together they deserve to be pbaoed down

Oldpcgamer

No

No, it should stay "Area of Effect" not "Area you might be effected"

Digerati

No

pjr_99b14_ESO wrote: »

From the Legend Gaming founder, Drahl.

Yes this has very bad ramifications on vokundein in Pvp. Our Pvp grps, being the premier Pvp force in TESO, rely on our organization and skill to take down massive zergs. With this, it'll make that much harder.

Yes dks need a nerf. They are the most overpowered Pvp class I've seen in 20 years of hardcore Pvp. But this is not how you fix them. I'll help ZOS out.

Below are the correct fixes:

1). Pboe CC - limited to 3 targets
2). Remove all ultimate reducing items and abilities
3). Ultimate points are no longer gained while an ultimate is active. So when an ultimate ends, you're at 0 ultimate.
4). Decrease pbaoe dmg based upon distance from caster. People next to caster take 100% dmg. Those further away take less (Daoc).
5). Introduce soft CC immunity


All problems solved.

I am on the same page with Drahl.

Drahl is right. an AoE cap is just plain LAZY.

Digerati

No

If all AoEs are supposed to have caps and it's a bug that most do not.. Why do some have an AoE cap specified in their description? It seems that the ones that have an AoE cap have it specified in their description while the ones that do not have no cap specified in their description..

Digerati

No

Razeo wrote: »

savak wrote: »

Guys, zenimax has already stated that caps are already in the game, and some have been BUGGED and are getting fixed. That is all. So please stop crying. If you really can't use siege or think of others specs to play then please follow on your threats and unsub already.

You honestly think there are non-Emp/Vamp classes out there who depend on AOE skills in PvP and expect results? AOE dmg in pvp unless your the 2 I just mentioned is crap in Cyrodiil, and if you've seen otherwise feel free to provide proof. And no, other than healing skills there are no dmg aoe caps in the game atm (its already been tested) and don't worry, if these changes do go through I and many others WILL unsub. I just hope you'll find some satisfaction on a very dead Cyrodiil.

My guild will clear out if they make this poor design decision.. And I can't blame them. If they're going to take such a silly, illogical, senseless, and LAZY design direction, what silliness awaits us in the future?

Keystone.Jones

No

The reason I play this game is because of the PVP and the lack of AOE cap; if this cap is implemented and stays, then I could just be playing free GW2 instead. I really hope they listen to their Customers as it looks like most people don't want this. If they really feel the need to add this, then make different campaigns with this option so we can all avoid it.

RaZaddha

No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o

I don't want another GW2. Please, please, no aoe cap, ok?

byghostlightrwb17_ESO

Yes

AOE's are way too over powered in this game, they dont take skill or have repercussions for use. HAH Id like to see friendly fire a factor in it, see how all these power gamers feel about them after they have been toasted a few times.

Anyone who watched any prelaunch videos could see how over powered and unremarkable they made gameplay.

NTclaymore

No

I think as many others it seems that AOE only helps the large zergs win every battle. The problem some of those that vote for the AOE cap is probally caused in some combos that make use of currently bugged skills prove to be way to strong even for a semi-organized zerg. Please keep bugged skills in mind before voting for the aoe cap. Other threads can give you great detail on the skill you are concerned about. Be informed before voting please.

Adhal

No

CkniSa wrote: »

if u find 100 players stacked together they deserve to be pbaoed down

This. The only problem in this game is the emperors vampire dk/sorc combos. If people are too stupid to go range when they have heavy aoe they deserve to die, we have weapons swap! If I see aoe crazy spam I go to my bow and try to cc and focus healers.

Altros

No

byghostlightrwb17_ESO wrote: »

AOE's are way too over powered in this game, they dont take skill or have repercussions for use. HAH Id like to see friendly fire a factor in it, see how all these power gamers feel about them after they have been toasted a few times.

Anyone who watched any prelaunch videos could see how over powered and unremarkable they made gameplay.

omg, friendly fire AoEs. I've actually always wanted to play a game with friendly fire AoEs. I would be fine with the increase in skill requirement that this would bring, but I doubt many share my sentiment.

Either way, however, this would not fix this issue with some of the AoEs. The issue with these AoEs is that they have bonuses-per hit that cause them to become broken when they hit a large number of players.

Even that, however, has 2 ways of being looked at. On the one hand, does it make sense that someone can cause a legitimate meteor shower thanks to shooting star's ultimate gained per hit? On the other hand, is it not the fault of the other group for standing close enough that there were enough people to get hit by said meteor to fill the caster's ultimate gauge?

I think part of the reason so many people think that the current AoEs are overpowered is because they're too used to games where large groups turning into a turtle was the way to win, so they have the habit of clumping together ingrained in their play style. I bet if people adopted a more spread out style of play they would see that a lot of these AoEs really aren't that OP. Regardless though, there are definitely some skills that need a nerf, but a sweeping change like limiting the number of targets hit per AoE is not the way to do it as many AoEs are fine as they are.