U39 - PTS Endeavours: more choice is less it seems

reazea

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Yea this absolutely cannot go live. There have been a lot of controversial changes over the years, but one I remember standing out was when they proposed new light and heavy attack changes a few years ago and the community unanimously hated it (which is very rare lol.)

Same thing is happening here. Reading this thread it’s obviously clear no one who plays this game, at any difficulty level, on any platform, is happy about these changes. It’s very clearly a way to discourage people from doing the endeavors to push more people into purchasing the filthy crown crates.

I’ll definitely be paying attention to this change in the coming PTS weeks. Thanks to OP and all others for sharing this information.

So much this^

haelgaan

Calling out specific dungeons or trials? That's horrible - why would they do something so stupid? I have no problem with "Do a dungeon" or "Do a trial" but specifying exactly which content you want to force a customer to play is terribly bad.

Mik195

Milanesa_Napolitana wrote: »

This is awful, they're doing this to push the sale of crown crates while telling us it's an improvement.

The change is puzzling. I do buy crown crates if there is something 400 gems or less that I want since 2 batches of crates gets me what I want (usually a mount) plus a few random things which I like.

Before endeavors I never even looked at apex mounts but given that it was possible to attain them with my endeavors, I started noticing them and if I didn't have the points available, I might buy an extra set of crates just to see if the apex might drop (worst case I'd end up with a few more non combat pets or gems which is fine). If endeavors are so much harder, its back to only looking at regular items to decide if I'm buying any crates.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same, but my interest in expensive things goes away if there isn't a reasonable way to get them.

karthrag_inak

Perhaps these are just tests of new 'extremes'/'specifics'? Not just 'Complete a dungeon' but 'Complete Scalecaler Peak'.

Khajiit would assume they would be one -offs, along with the more mundane 'deconstruct 5 clothier items' and 'kill 5 people with Blade of Woe'. Surely there will always be at least 1 endeavor that is reasonably crafter-friendly, and at least 1 that is reasonably newbie friendly.

-khajiit after a day sniffing happy spice in the sunshine-.

Belegnole

sad, just sad

To think they said they wouldn't hide things behind TOT and wouldn't force us to play it. What a lie that was.

IrisDupree

I can say with certainty that if these changes go live I will never purchase another crown crate. I don't care what they put in them, how much I am tempted by the new hairstyle or shiny furniture.
The endeavors are barely worth doing now and if its do a dungeon for 1 seal? aww heck no.

jaws343

IrisDupree wrote: »

I can say with certainty that if these changes go live I will never purchase another crown crate. I don't care what they put in them, how much I am tempted by the new hairstyle or shiny furniture.
The endeavors are barely worth doing now and if its do a dungeon for 1 seal? aww heck no.

The 1 seal has always been the PTS placeholder value.

TaSheen

Belegnole wrote: »

sad, just sad

To think they said they wouldn't hide things behind TOT and wouldn't force us to play it. What a lie that was.

True. But I won't play it in any case, because NOTHING is worth spending my game time in something so stultifyingly NOT my kind of thing.

In other words, I don't care what sort of reward they lock behind ToT, I'm not interested.

BlueRaven

These new endeavors are terrible.

They seem to be trying to drive down the amount of players doing them, while also ham-fistedly trying to get more people in dungeons/trials.

They can’t totally get rid of endeavors, as I think they are a defense against earning rewards only through “gambling”.

thejadefalcon

I, for one, think these Endeavours are absolutely fantastic, just what we needed to spice up the system!

The new Dailies give 200 Seals each and the Weekly 1,000, right?

... no?

... what do you mean *no*?

Do you even PLAY the game, ZOS?

TaSheen

thejadefalcon wrote: »

I, for one, think these Endeavours are absolutely fantastic, just what we needed to spice up the system!

The new Dailies give 200 Seals each and the Weekly 1,000, right?

... no?

... what do you mean *no*?

Do you even PLAY the game, ZOS?

You win the intarwebs for today!!

Lady_Lindel

This is so just beyond ludicrous, you have to laugh. There are no words to describe how pathetic this is.

antihero_kazuma

We already know ZOS only cares about it's bottom line. If this is going to be a legitimate change, people won't spend time doing them anymore and ZOS connection with it's fan base would be questionable at best. I'm curious to see how many people are actually gonna keep playing or speak positively in regards to them. I'm thinking I need a break myself and gonna get rid of ESO plus for a year

AuroranGoldenEagle

I thought more types of Endeavors would be stuff like "Fish x number of times", "Roll dodge x number of times in combat", "Travel x number of ft. while on a mount", these might be too easy/bad examples, but I thought they would be new activites or things to do to keep people engaged.

Reducing "Complete 1 dungeon" to "Complete THIS specific dungeon" is not providing people with more types of Endeavors, it's limiting.

Would really hate to see these become a thing when the update goes live.

TaSheen

antihero_kazuma wrote: »

We already know ZOS only cares about it's bottom line. If this is going to be a legitimate change, people won't spend time doing them anymore and ZOS connection with it's fan base would be questionable at best. I'm curious to see how many people are actually gonna keep playing or speak positively in regards to them. I'm thinking I need a break myself and gonna get rid of ESO plus for a year

Eh, I'll keep playing because overall the game is a lot of fun (for me, my specifc playstyle). I'm absolutely NOT going to mess with the new "do this or else" endeavors setup. And I'm not going to spend crowns (three accounts on annual subs - lot of crowns sitting there unspent).

Elsonso

vsrs_au wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Less choice: complete "1 Trial" or "1 Dungeon" has become complete a named Trial/Dungeon. Including activities that relatively few people do, like ToT and Geysers, actually reduces the choice for most people. Sneaky.

Speaking personally there isn't one thing among those five that I would do.

This is Crown Store stuff, so I wonder if people are collecting too many, too quickly. If so, they have choices... increase prices, reduce the number awarded, or make them harder to get. Or... all three!

If they are going to "improve" this with more specific named tasks, I will probably stop paying attention to them. This is becoming guided activities rather than just doing things we already do.

How could any of us be collecting too many endeavour seals too quickly? The most we can collect in a week is about 450 seals, so items costing, say, 7200 seals take roughly 16 weeks to buy, and 9600 seal items take 21 weeks (at least they did for me). Not exactly what I'd call too quickly.

Well, I can't say what they are thinking, but it has occurred to me that if a lot of people are maxing out endeavors, they may be too easy to get. It is possible that some people may be concerned about that. Seals, even at the current painfully slow rate of acquisition and low overall value, may still be too easy to earn. This could be some sort of threat to Crown sales, if Seal spending is up and Crown purchasing is down. Although, if they fix Crown Crate gifting, the latter won't be a problem for a while.

It is an idea. Not the most likely one.

There is another idea where they are concerned about future drops in active players. If they can do more to guide players to group content, then group content will maintain viability even with fewer players. Things like the Undaunted and Endeavors that steer players to specific dungeons mean more players are queuing up for those specific things. People trying to queue for other group content will suffer, though. Anyway... It is just a thought.

It could also be as simple as them wanting more participation in group content, or group content that does not see a lot of activity. Steer the solo players out of their comfort zone. Bastion Nymic was a push towards group content, and maybe that's a goal here, too.

Then again, maybe they had a contest to see what "QoL" things ZOS employees could think of and "more Endeavors" won. Once they decided to do that, they obviously had to dream up more Endeavors. There are a limited number of things they can do, so it is only natural that they wandered into this minefield.

The best Daily and Weekly Endeavors are the ones you just get because you happen to be playing the game. The current line up is pretty good for that. They can only go downhill from there, apparently.

TaSheen

Elsonso wrote: »

The best Daily and Weekly Endeavors are the ones you just get because you happen to be playing the game. The current line up is pretty good for that. They can only go downhill from there, apparently.

All too true.

I refuse to play the "new game".

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Horrible. I’m currently in my ‘off season’ for ESO, but the current Endeavor system keeps me at least logging in and playing for a bit each day. But if that becomes too tedious, frustrating, or both - which the samples of new Endeavors shown suggest it will very quickly - I can easily see myself only logging into ESO for a few weeks in the spring when the new story content comes out, and otherwise ignoring the game.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

If they go along with this then the endeavors better be worth more then 10, 15 or 20 for doing them, 30, 40 and 50 would be better for endeavors of this "Difficulty"

HappyTheCamper

jaws343 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Yea this absolutely cannot go live. There have been a lot of controversial changes over the years, but one I remember standing out was when they proposed new light and heavy attack changes a few years ago and the community unanimously hated it (which is very rare lol.)

Same thing is happening here. Reading this thread it’s obviously clear no one who plays this game, at any difficulty level, on any platform, is happy about these changes. It’s very clearly a way to discourage people from doing the endeavors to push more people into purchasing the filthy crown crates.

I’ll definitely be paying attention to this change in the coming PTS weeks. Thanks to OP and all others for sharing this information.

I play the game. I welcome a larger variety of endeavor activities.

That’s fair, but these changes are not that at all. It’s very evident if someone actually *reads* the new examples in the pictures.

No one can even remotely pretend that’s even true. No acting coach could make me believe someone actually supports the specific suggested changes. These are not “a larger variety of activities”, it’s the exact opposite. These are pigeon-holed, dlc specific, unfriendly time-consuming grinds that are not “daily” repeatables. They do not encourage more options; they force you to do more with way less.

This is one of the worst changes they’ve come up with. This is not a hyperbolic opinion. They literally make no sense by any means.

I mean, doing a dungeon is literally a thing that someone may do through the course of their play time for the day. Making it a specific dungeon gives players a reason to do that dungeon.

From the list of things that have been shown so far, I'd absolutely do the following:

Day 1:
Complete Banished Cells 1 - Ok, 10-15 minutes on my own, loot some things, maybe get some companion gear drops with my companion out.
Complete Fang Lair - Sure, ~30 mins on my own. But, if it were an endeavour, the direct queue for the dungeon is going to be fast, so probably a fairly quick 4 man run on normal. Fill out that sticker book.
Abyssal Geyser - That's a gimme
Tribute Match - NPC match takes a few minutes, has some drops from Necrom.

So 4/5 on that day 1. I'd do Hel Ra depending on the day, and if there were a group running it. But I'd not go out of my way for it. But also, I think it is perfectly fine that Endeavors also cater to players who may also do multiple trials per day, of whom, this endeavor could fit into their play session perfectly.

Day 2:
Complete Banished Cells 2 - Same as BC1, ~15 minutes alone, companion gear drop potential. Also leads for antiquities.
Scalecaller - ~30 mins solo, and a repeat of everything I said around Fang Lair
Defeat 1 Dragon - Also a gimme

So 3/5 that day. Same for Sanctum as I said for Hel Ra. And I don't really do Group BGs, but if a guild mate posted for someone to join them in some because it was the daily, I'd X up and join in. And also, having PVP related Endeavors is perfectly valid. Pretty much, if it is an activity that a player can participate in this game, there is no reason that an Endeavor should not be associated with it. Players' refusal to participate in some of that content is not a legitimate reason.

Again though, I'll reiterate, I highly doubt the configuration of endeavors seen on PTS will even remotely match how they will be grouped on Live. Generally, they provide Endeavor activities that are all unique in their focus in game. The PTS is showing 2 dungeon dailies at the same time, I'd bet that will never happen, ever, on live. They are very very clearly showing off the new options that may come up.

Also, given that Fang Lair, followed by Scalecaller, is the general Pledge rotation order, it wouldn't shock me if these specific dungeons were paired with daily pledges.

So I will agree that the specific dungeons will probably be paired with the pledges. But my original point is “why?” Why are they doing this? The argument is “to give us more ways for endeavors.” Changing endeavors that say “Complete a dungeon” to “Complete Banished Cells 2” makes no sense if they (as they claim) wish to provide more options. It’s like a shopping mall with a food court claiming they want more options for customers, then closing all the restaurants except the pizza place.

Now, do I think this is an exact list of endeavors they would actually put out? No, I’m like you, it’s probably just PTS. But they appear to be targeting more dlc paths, which not everyone owns. If we look at the specific pledges and hypothetically say this is a list of 5 that could go live one day, then what if someone doesn’t have Summerset, Dragonbones, or High Isle? They can only complete 2/5 pledges, which is the exact opposite of “more options.”

Again, like my original point, if people actually look at these changes instead of just putting up with it and waving their hands, it’s very clear this is a bad decision. They appear to be pigeon-holing endeavors. (Which is bad for everyone, and is especially bad considering the terrible changes they’ve been making to the crown crates.)

Edit: and I’ll 100% reverse my opinion if the pts rolls by and the endeavors turn out to be better/more options! Fine but me, but as far as what we have now, it’s scary.

jaws343

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Yea this absolutely cannot go live. There have been a lot of controversial changes over the years, but one I remember standing out was when they proposed new light and heavy attack changes a few years ago and the community unanimously hated it (which is very rare lol.)

Same thing is happening here. Reading this thread it’s obviously clear no one who plays this game, at any difficulty level, on any platform, is happy about these changes. It’s very clearly a way to discourage people from doing the endeavors to push more people into purchasing the filthy crown crates.

I’ll definitely be paying attention to this change in the coming PTS weeks. Thanks to OP and all others for sharing this information.

I play the game. I welcome a larger variety of endeavor activities.

That’s fair, but these changes are not that at all. It’s very evident if someone actually *reads* the new examples in the pictures.

No one can even remotely pretend that’s even true. No acting coach could make me believe someone actually supports the specific suggested changes. These are not “a larger variety of activities”, it’s the exact opposite. These are pigeon-holed, dlc specific, unfriendly time-consuming grinds that are not “daily” repeatables. They do not encourage more options; they force you to do more with way less.

This is one of the worst changes they’ve come up with. This is not a hyperbolic opinion. They literally make no sense by any means.

I mean, doing a dungeon is literally a thing that someone may do through the course of their play time for the day. Making it a specific dungeon gives players a reason to do that dungeon.

From the list of things that have been shown so far, I'd absolutely do the following:

Day 1:
Complete Banished Cells 1 - Ok, 10-15 minutes on my own, loot some things, maybe get some companion gear drops with my companion out.
Complete Fang Lair - Sure, ~30 mins on my own. But, if it were an endeavour, the direct queue for the dungeon is going to be fast, so probably a fairly quick 4 man run on normal. Fill out that sticker book.
Abyssal Geyser - That's a gimme
Tribute Match - NPC match takes a few minutes, has some drops from Necrom.

So 4/5 on that day 1. I'd do Hel Ra depending on the day, and if there were a group running it. But I'd not go out of my way for it. But also, I think it is perfectly fine that Endeavors also cater to players who may also do multiple trials per day, of whom, this endeavor could fit into their play session perfectly.

Day 2:
Complete Banished Cells 2 - Same as BC1, ~15 minutes alone, companion gear drop potential. Also leads for antiquities.
Scalecaller - ~30 mins solo, and a repeat of everything I said around Fang Lair
Defeat 1 Dragon - Also a gimme

So 3/5 that day. Same for Sanctum as I said for Hel Ra. And I don't really do Group BGs, but if a guild mate posted for someone to join them in some because it was the daily, I'd X up and join in. And also, having PVP related Endeavors is perfectly valid. Pretty much, if it is an activity that a player can participate in this game, there is no reason that an Endeavor should not be associated with it. Players' refusal to participate in some of that content is not a legitimate reason.

Again though, I'll reiterate, I highly doubt the configuration of endeavors seen on PTS will even remotely match how they will be grouped on Live. Generally, they provide Endeavor activities that are all unique in their focus in game. The PTS is showing 2 dungeon dailies at the same time, I'd bet that will never happen, ever, on live. They are very very clearly showing off the new options that may come up.

Also, given that Fang Lair, followed by Scalecaller, is the general Pledge rotation order, it wouldn't shock me if these specific dungeons were paired with daily pledges.

So I will agree that the specific dungeons will probably be paired with the pledges. But my original point is “why?” Why are they doing this? The argument is “to give us more ways for endeavors.” Changing endeavors that say “Complete a dungeon” to “Complete Banished Cells 2” makes no sense if they (as they claim) wish to provide more options. It’s like a shopping mall with a food court claiming they want more options for customers, then closing all the restaurants except the pizza place.

Now, do I think this is an exact list of endeavors they would actually put out? No, I’m like you, it’s probably just PTS. But they appear to be targeting more dlc paths, which not everyone owns. If we look at the specific pledges and hypothetically say this is a list of 5 that could go live one day, then what if someone doesn’t have Summerset, Dragonbones, or High Isle? They can only complete 2/5 pledges, which is the exact opposite of “more options.”

Again, like my original point, if people actually look at these changes instead of just putting up with it and waving their hands, it’s very clear this is a bad decision. They appear to be pigeon-holing endeavors. (Which is bad for everyone, and is especially bad considering the terrible changes they’ve been making to the crown crates.)

Edit: and I’ll 100% reverse my opinion if the pts rolls by and the endeavors turn out to be better/more options! Fine but me, but as far as what we have now, it’s scary.

But they aren't changing the endeavor from "Do dungeon" to "do x dungeon".

They are adding "do x dungeon" to the list of dungeon related endeavor options that could show up.

And if it is paired with pledges, then how is it not a perfectly reasonable option for players who do their pledges every day to also earn endeavors for doing so, while maybe even incentivizing players who might not to actually do the pledges and boost the dungeon finder queue?

And also, the what if argument around people not having parts of the game is irrelevant in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with providing people who participate in the entire game, or certain portions of the game, the same opportunity to earn various rewards, like endeavors.

LadyLethalla

If these were in addition to what we currently have, great. If these are a replacement, I guess I will barely be earning them anymore after the change. Which might be intended.

OtarTheMad

The funny thing is I don’t think ZOS even realizes the heavy impact this will have on the game. Now I can’t speak for others but I know that during times when I take a break I still log in to do endeavors and writs and fill up my store. That’s it.

Endeavors are what keep my interest in the game when it drives me nuts, almost as a reminder of things I love about it which is combat, the community and just the Elder Scrolls environment. But if they go forward with this? Well, other games are coming out, interest wanes because I don’t have a ton of free time so now I won’t be logging in everyday to do endeavors. Maybe I’ll log in every week just to keep my store full, do writs or maybe I’ll just log in for events.

Seems like, from what I read here, that others kind of feel the same. They log in to do endeavors everyday but also get reminded on why they played this game in the first place. Without that reminder, who knows how often they’d log in.

Idk. For me, I have ADHD and I don’t medicate for it so out of sight out of mind is REAL lol. I can get lost in a game and just simply forget others are fun too.

Elsonso

LadyLethalla wrote: »

If these were in addition to what we currently have, great. If these are a replacement, I guess I will barely be earning them anymore after the change. Which might be intended.

My guess is that they are in addition... and I also suspect that the selection on PTS is weighted towards the new ones.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I prpose to replace dungeon specefic one by : complete(insert pledge npc name) daily pledge. That way it will blend more easily in the daily routine of much more player while also sending you to a specific dungeon. Best of both world

As for trial, intoduce a trial undunted npc and repeat?maybe?

Tribute: good addition. Does actually increase variety

Specific world event: kind of ok with those will make people chose other than dark anchor.

350 kill: good as you can kill how ever you want.

Kendaric

Elsonso wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

If these were in addition to what we currently have, great. If these are a replacement, I guess I will barely be earning them anymore after the change. Which might be intended.

My guess is that they are in addition... and I also suspect that the selection on PTS is weighted towards the new ones.

While that is most likely the case, they will take up space in the current endeavor lists when they go live. As such, they will replace easier or more popular endeavors on any days they appear.

So for me at least it will mean less endeavors and therefore less time spend in game, if I even log in.

Lady_Galadhiel

Kendaric wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

If these were in addition to what we currently have, great. If these are a replacement, I guess I will barely be earning them anymore after the change. Which might be intended.

My guess is that they are in addition... and I also suspect that the selection on PTS is weighted towards the new ones.

While that is most likely the case, they will take up space in the current endeavor lists when they go live. As such, they will replace easier or more popular endeavors on any days they appear.

So for me at least it will mean less endeavors and therefore less time spend in game, if I even log in.

Exactly.
Only when they add 2 dungeons and 1 trial into the pool, people like me will only be able to complete 2 if even, because I wont bother with specific dungeons or Trials.
If they don't want to upset a large portion of the playerbase who cares about seals, they would need to select them very carefully each day so every type of player could at least complete 2.

ApoAlaia

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

If these were in addition to what we currently have, great. If these are a replacement, I guess I will barely be earning them anymore after the change. Which might be intended.

My guess is that they are in addition... and I also suspect that the selection on PTS is weighted towards the new ones.

While that is most likely the case, they will take up space in the current endeavor lists when they go live. As such, they will replace easier or more popular endeavors on any days they appear.

So for me at least it will mean less endeavors and therefore less time spend in game, if I even log in.

Exactly.
Only when they add 2 dungeons and 1 trial into the pool, people like me will only be able to complete 2 if even, because I wont bother with specific dungeons or Trials.
If they don't want to upset a large portion of the playerbase who cares about seals, they would need to select them very carefully each day so every type of player could at least complete 2.

Furthermore, because I see the 'people should take part on a variety of activities' argument crop up quite a bit on the thread, given that running a specific dungeon or trial would at least take 15 minutes there should be daily endeavours along the lines of:

- Sell goods for a total value of 50.000 gold on guild traders.
- Complete 32 durable daily writs.
- Complete 24 consumable daily writs.
- Collect 8 potent/fortified nirncrux.

Let's have all possible activities the game has to offer represented...

RaddlemanNumber7

Another lot on the same theme, no real surprises, just as bad as I was expecting...

KlauthWarthog

"With a guildmate". What an idiotic restriction. What next, "perform a group dance with members of 2 opposing factions on the top of an outpost on Cyrodiil"?