U39 - PTS Endeavours: more choice is less it seems

Lady_Galadhiel

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RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Another lot on the same theme, no real surprises, just as bad as I was expecting...

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse.

emilyhyoyeon

If they are trying to reduce the number of endeavors people earn because people are stockpiling too many or whatever... Personally I wouldn't be stockpiling so many if they brought back crates more often so I can actually spend them.

If a crate season has nothing I want, I'm not spending anything, because there's nothing I want to buy. Cycle through old crates more so I can actually be sitting at 5k seals at a time instead of 35k

BergisMacBride

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Another lot on the same theme, no real surprises, just as bad as I was expecting...

Harrowstorm one is fine, all others I won't even bother with. Too much time and effort to fit around my other daily game activities.

I agree that it looks like that these represent just the new ones and we won't see all of these together on a given day. I'd expect that the dungeon ones will align with the daily pledge. I still won't do them on most days, particularly if it's a longer dlc dungeon cause it's not worth the time for me personally. I'd expect most players will feel the same.

Still too specific and exclusionary. Just keep it at "complete a dungeon" or "complete a trial" [snip]. And the grouped with a guildie thing, well that's just an unnecessary addition and restriction.

Also seems that there are still going to be only 5 dailies or else they would've reformatted to increase the number of dailies to whatever the new number would be. So at least one of two of these will be replacing the more reasonable ones we have now that no one ever really complained about.

If their goal is to decrease the number of seals earned each day, this is a great way to do it imo.

[edited for profanity bypass]

NoxiousBlight

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

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RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Another lot on the same theme, no real surprises, just as bad as I was expecting...

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse.

Man. I know I sound dramatic. But these endeavor changes feel like the worst changes they have made in a while.

The endeavor system keeps me logging on during the days when my play time is limited. I know I can always spare 15-20 minutes to knock out the endeavors, then I log off. The endeavor system, as is, has been a huge boon in keeping me interested in the game. It has kept me around even when I didn't feel like playing ESO. Then after a few weeks, while logged on, something will sound interesting to me and I remember why I like this game and I keep playing and subscribing.

If it goes live like this I will just stop playing on those days when I can't afford a 2 hour gaming session. The time commitment ZOS wants from you on the daily is nuts. I know you have to pick and choose, and no one is forcing you to do endeavors, but it seems like the most important "task" because the time gate is so long. And once I stop logging on every day, all it takes is 5-6 days of me not logging on in a row to start considering an uninstall.

These changes are bad. Really bad. We don't need longer, harder chores. The chores should be light and easy. ZOS should really just focus on making fun new systems. That will keep people playing long term - fun, not more chores. Even the most addicted won't tolerate these asinine new endeavors for long.

Luke_Flamesword

I can imagine next year Endavours in ESO:

"Buy a crown crate with guildmate"

ApoAlaia

I mean at least they are in line with one of the stated goals for Q3: QoL changes.

A change for the worse is still a change.

Calastir

Mellirus

These endeavors are definitely NOT the QoL changes I was expecting from this patch. Frankly, these are so bad that I just can't believe ZOS would actually go live with them.

But just in case they're considering to - please, for the love of ESO, listen to the feedback in this thread and do not let these new endeavors go live.

Current system is solid as it is. I've barely missed any endeavors since they were added to the game. But these new ones are plain terrible, restrictive, they feel like a nuisance and a corporate effort to enforce more play time & DLC purchases, and my wife and I would likely start skipping them entirely.

XtreemeESO

Dude what is this??? Endeavors were fine the way they were!!!

RaddlemanNumber7

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I mean at least they are in line with one of the stated goals for Q3: QoL changes.

A change for the worse is still a change.

I wonder, is this -QoL or <QoL ?

Meredy

Endeavors were good when they were activities you'd do by accident anyway. It's not fun going specifically out of your way to say complete a Cyro daily already.

The way they approach these endeavors and made them so specific is a step in the wrong direction.

ApoAlaia

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I mean at least they are in line with one of the stated goals for Q3: QoL changes.

A change for the worse is still a change.

I wonder, is this -QoL or <QoL ?

QoL/0 - undefined detriment, infinite possibilities.

Meredy

Doing specific endeavors feels like, someone else (in this case ZOS) forcing their definition of "fun" on you.

HappyTheCamper

jaws343 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Yea this absolutely cannot go live. There have been a lot of controversial changes over the years, but one I remember standing out was when they proposed new light and heavy attack changes a few years ago and the community unanimously hated it (which is very rare lol.)

Same thing is happening here. Reading this thread it’s obviously clear no one who plays this game, at any difficulty level, on any platform, is happy about these changes. It’s very clearly a way to discourage people from doing the endeavors to push more people into purchasing the filthy crown crates.

I’ll definitely be paying attention to this change in the coming PTS weeks. Thanks to OP and all others for sharing this information.

I play the game. I welcome a larger variety of endeavor activities.

That’s fair, but these changes are not that at all. It’s very evident if someone actually *reads* the new examples in the pictures.

No one can even remotely pretend that’s even true. No acting coach could make me believe someone actually supports the specific suggested changes. These are not “a larger variety of activities”, it’s the exact opposite. These are pigeon-holed, dlc specific, unfriendly time-consuming grinds that are not “daily” repeatables. They do not encourage more options; they force you to do more with way less.

This is one of the worst changes they’ve come up with. This is not a hyperbolic opinion. They literally make no sense by any means.

I mean, doing a dungeon is literally a thing that someone may do through the course of their play time for the day. Making it a specific dungeon gives players a reason to do that dungeon.

From the list of things that have been shown so far, I'd absolutely do the following:

Day 1:
Complete Banished Cells 1 - Ok, 10-15 minutes on my own, loot some things, maybe get some companion gear drops with my companion out.
Complete Fang Lair - Sure, ~30 mins on my own. But, if it were an endeavour, the direct queue for the dungeon is going to be fast, so probably a fairly quick 4 man run on normal. Fill out that sticker book.
Abyssal Geyser - That's a gimme
Tribute Match - NPC match takes a few minutes, has some drops from Necrom.

So 4/5 on that day 1. I'd do Hel Ra depending on the day, and if there were a group running it. But I'd not go out of my way for it. But also, I think it is perfectly fine that Endeavors also cater to players who may also do multiple trials per day, of whom, this endeavor could fit into their play session perfectly.

Day 2:
Complete Banished Cells 2 - Same as BC1, ~15 minutes alone, companion gear drop potential. Also leads for antiquities.
Scalecaller - ~30 mins solo, and a repeat of everything I said around Fang Lair
Defeat 1 Dragon - Also a gimme

So 3/5 that day. Same for Sanctum as I said for Hel Ra. And I don't really do Group BGs, but if a guild mate posted for someone to join them in some because it was the daily, I'd X up and join in. And also, having PVP related Endeavors is perfectly valid. Pretty much, if it is an activity that a player can participate in this game, there is no reason that an Endeavor should not be associated with it. Players' refusal to participate in some of that content is not a legitimate reason.

Again though, I'll reiterate, I highly doubt the configuration of endeavors seen on PTS will even remotely match how they will be grouped on Live. Generally, they provide Endeavor activities that are all unique in their focus in game. The PTS is showing 2 dungeon dailies at the same time, I'd bet that will never happen, ever, on live. They are very very clearly showing off the new options that may come up.

Also, given that Fang Lair, followed by Scalecaller, is the general Pledge rotation order, it wouldn't shock me if these specific dungeons were paired with daily pledges.

So I will agree that the specific dungeons will probably be paired with the pledges. But my original point is “why?” Why are they doing this? The argument is “to give us more ways for endeavors.” Changing endeavors that say “Complete a dungeon” to “Complete Banished Cells 2” makes no sense if they (as they claim) wish to provide more options. It’s like a shopping mall with a food court claiming they want more options for customers, then closing all the restaurants except the pizza place.

Now, do I think this is an exact list of endeavors they would actually put out? No, I’m like you, it’s probably just PTS. But they appear to be targeting more dlc paths, which not everyone owns. If we look at the specific pledges and hypothetically say this is a list of 5 that could go live one day, then what if someone doesn’t have Summerset, Dragonbones, or High Isle? They can only complete 2/5 pledges, which is the exact opposite of “more options.”

Again, like my original point, if people actually look at these changes instead of just putting up with it and waving their hands, it’s very clear this is a bad decision. They appear to be pigeon-holing endeavors. (Which is bad for everyone, and is especially bad considering the terrible changes they’ve been making to the crown crates.)

Edit: and I’ll 100% reverse my opinion if the pts rolls by and the endeavors turn out to be better/more options! Fine but me, but as far as what we have now, it’s scary.

But they aren't changing the endeavor from "Do dungeon" to "do x dungeon".

They are adding "do x dungeon" to the list of dungeon related endeavor options that could show up.

And if it is paired with pledges, then how is it not a perfectly reasonable option for players who do their pledges every day to also earn endeavors for doing so, while maybe even incentivizing players who might not to actually do the pledges and boost the dungeon finder queue?

And also, the what if argument around people not having parts of the game is irrelevant in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with providing people who participate in the entire game, or certain portions of the game, the same opportunity to earn various rewards, like endeavors.

1. But why add “do X dungeon” to the list? What is the point? It’s just artificial fluff that screams “hey guys, there are over 140 dungeons in ESO, so we’ve added 140 new endeavor types for you to possibly get. Pretty cool huh?” No! Because there’s nothing wrong with the current “Play any dungeon for 1 endeavor!” It’s not needed. It’s them just acting like they’re giving us more when they’re not. I’m honestly more confused by their decision then outraged lol. It’s a silly addition they don’t need to be bothering.

2. I agree, pairing it with pledges is okay, and very convenient. But sometimes there are occasions where pledges are not the same on all servers (rare but sometimes). If they can make sure to keep track of that, then it’s a little better, but still limiting choice. If the pledge is Castle Thorn for example, and the endeavor becomes “Play through Castle Thorn 1 time” there are people in the game that cannot do that. Or sometimes I do the daily random for exp gains. This new system will less likely support that.

3. I agree, absolutely not, I don’t mind ToT and such being in the pool (I honestly thought it was a possibility lol!) But like I said, as long as they don’t make 3 of the 5 options in a day from dlc, then it’s fine. But hypothetically if they did, then people will only be allowed to accumulate 2 of a possible 3 points. It’s just something I hope they’re aware of upon release to live servers.

Overall I’m less “angry pitchfork” and more “I just want to know why bother adding these”.

Edit: heck one of the new ones says “do X with a guild mate.” That’s just another dumb pigeon hole that isn’t needed! So next patch will they make endeavors that say “Play Fungal Grotto 1 on a nightblade character.”?

TaSheen

Interestingly enough, I don't play the content listed in any of the new endeavors. And since I'm not about to change what I play/find fun in this game, I won't be messing with the new ones at all. What it will do, seemingly, is make my usual two daily endeavors I do either one or none (there were 3 I did yesterday, and I'm doing the antiquities weekly on each account both PC megaservers), but normally there's only a couple dailies and no weeklies that I'm willing to mess with.

I have my day worked out around the fun things - that's not going to change.

Taggund

As someone who does not do dungeons except in very rare circumstances, these are becoming really bad. I already avoid any endeavor that is a specific zone location. Seems like I may get 1 a day going forward. Doing this just makes it where there is less reason to login.

GooGa592

If these changes to endeavors go live I won't be playing more and spending more in crown store. I'll be playing less and spending less. I think most posters in this thread feel the same. I'll just engage less in the game because endeavors will be too discouraging to bother with. Which will mean fewer log ins and less in game time for me, and less interest in spending in the crown store due to overall less engagement with the game.

bellablithely

Here I was thinking we'd finally get trading or fishing-related endeavours or something fun like that. These stink more than Thurvokun's mouldy bones.

tomofhyrule

So again this is looking at the "Endeavors should mesh with the event" versus "Endeavors should mesh with things you'd do today anyway like pledges" versus "The PTS Endeavors are just the new ones all at once" theories...

Today's Dungeon Endeavors on PTS are Blackheart and March. Today's pledges on PTS are Wayrest 2, Arx, and Scalecaller.

Again, I get if they want to give us dungeon endeavors. I get that they're testing the Undaunted event. But if we assume a player is going to want to do pledges when they get home from work... and then they have to do two different dungeons for Endeavors? That's a massive time commitment to do five dungeons, and means players won't really have time for anything else.
"But engagement!"
But burnout.

PLEASE don't give us a set of five Endeavors like these on live. I'd actually be interested to know which Endeavors drive engagement the most - I'm willing to bet the when endeavors are easier and something you'd do normally, then players will hang around and do them and other thigs in game, whereas if Endeavors are time consuming, they'll either just shut the game off immediately or do the endeavor and immediately bounce and not engage with the game thereafter.

BenevolentBowd

July 10


July 13

Dark_Lord_Kuro

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I could be mistaken but, I think they are just running the new endeavors for testing purposes and that on live it will mix the old and new. But, that might just be wishful thinking...

Here's today's list:

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Another lot on the same theme, no real surprises, just as bad as I was expecting...

Can someone check what are the undaunted daily today on pts? If it match it would be a bit better than if not.

Also they are mostly the same as yesterday and same order too...🤔
1 base game dungeon
1 dlc dungeon
1 world event
1 trial
1 with a guildmate

DarcyMardin

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

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RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Another lot on the same theme, no real surprises, just as bad as I was expecting...

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse.

This is horrific. Can’t solo Blackheart Haven or March of Sacrifices. Or, obviously, this trial or any other trial.

I don’t run dungeons with guildmates. I play solo, or rarely, use the random dungeon finder, but that won’t work here.

Harrowstorm, OK, assuming there are other people there, which, given that I play at off hours, could very well not be true.

Which means I can finish *maybe* one endeavor instead of my usual quick three out of five.

Another reason to cancel ESO+, which I maintain on three accounts currently. ESO+ is helpful for doing endeavors, especially the crafting ones. But if I’m not going to doing endeavors because ZOS has turned them in a PITA, there’s little reason to keep ESO+. Or even to sign in to the game at all.

NotoriousBTK

Adding my voice to say how bad this change will be. Endeavors are already a grind and I'm not going to bother anymore if I can only really finish maybe one a day instead of 3.

tomofhyrule

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Can someone check what are the undaunted daily today on pts? If it match it would be a bit better than if not.

It's a few posts up from yours. And no, the Pledges and Endeavors are not the same.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Today's Dungeon Endeavors on PTS are Blackheart and March. Today's pledges on PTS are Wayrest 2, Arx, and Scalecaller.

UrQuan

If ZOS really wants to convince me it's not worth logging in and playing for a bit every day, this is an excellent way to do it.

No_Lollygaggin

I do not like changing these to specify the specific content within each type that much be done. I can see it may be well intentioned to help for groups forming to do similar content but its not for me. I much prefer the ESO approach of Play How You Want.

SerafinaWaterstar

Well if these changes come to the live server, I will, as others have also said, be far less inclined to log in & do the daily endeavours. No q4 dlc and now this - just when other games coming out this autumn…..

This is just awful. It’s bad enough that you have to buy crates to get items rather than just buy the damn thing; endeavours were a way to at least try & get one or two things without crate/gems.

[snip]

Not impressed.

[edited for bashing]

BergisMacBride

Actually the only really NEW content for endeavors thus far are for ToT, Harrowstorms, Geysers and the event tickets weekly. All of the other "New" ones are just much more restrictve versions of existing endeavors (dungeons, battlegrounds, trials).

IMO this show either a lack of imagination/effort or a conscious effort to really decrease participation and seals earned.

What about kill any world boss in x zone? Catch x number of fish in x zone? Harvest x numbers or torchbugs1\butterflies? Talk to Maiq once today?

StabbityDoom

I am disabled. Do you have any idea how many of your player base is older, disabled?
I cannot do these endgame type deals. My hands hurt doing basic stuff.

What about *casuals*? They barely have the time to do one or two endeavors NOW, you expect them to somehow find the time to run a full dungeon when they have jobs, kids, lives?

I'm horrified. You guys said you were pro-accessibility and I believed you, with oakensoul and the companions. This is a step back. If this is about crates being non-giftable affecting your bottom line, turn it back on and let the money come in even if there's fraud, and fight the bug on your end. At least then you have most of the income.

I'm afraid nobody reads these comments. But I LOVE ESO. You guys know I stick through EVERYTHING, no matter how bad the change. But this one feels directly at people like me. Listen. IF YOU DO THIS YOU WILL BE ATTRACTING ONLY ONE KIND OF PLAYER - and I assure you, people my age have more money than they do. Please listen.
@ZOS_Kevin I hope these messages get to those who matter in this decision. I'm really scared. Thank you.

Wolfkeks

Not a good change. This feels more like you made the endeavors more complicated/unpopular so peeps won't do them...