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PTS Update 37 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes
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Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ecgberht_confused wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »If they get an instant-cast burst heal unassociated with pets, like every other class, I want Shadowy Disguise or a functioning Streak on my Templar. I’d also like Battle Roar too while we’re at it.
But NB does have both shadowy disguise AND an instant cast heal? Why is that fair for NB but not sorc?
"Malevolent Offering" is a very risky skill, coz the healing often hits other players. The range is pretty high. Furthermore the skill must crit, otherwise it's weak and expensive.
What's the average critical chance of Nbs in PvP? Maybe 30 to 45%?
So in the end you get two big "ifs".
Duels are a different story of course!
weak and expensive?
It has the same tooltip as honor the dead and resistant flesh and is nearly 25% cheaper in magicka cost per cast than either of those 2 abilities, both of which also often heal allies instead of you with the same 28m radius as offering.
NB has one of the best burst heals in the game, and it got it without losing anything from shadowy disguise or shade teleport or even its healing over time in refreshing path or heal on damage with soul tether (that is also a massive AoE stun + burst).8 -
Ecgberht_confused wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »If they get an instant-cast burst heal unassociated with pets, like every other class, I want Shadowy Disguise or a functioning Streak on my Templar. I’d also like Battle Roar too while we’re at it.
But NB does have both shadowy disguise AND an instant cast heal? Why is that fair for NB but not sorc?
"Malevolent Offering" is a very risky skill, coz the healing often hits other players. The range is pretty high. Furthermore the skill must crit, otherwise it's weak and expensive.
What's the average critical chance of Nbs in PvP? Maybe 30 to 45%?
So in the end you get two big "ifs".
Duels are a different story of course!
Believe me, sorcs would be jumping out of joy if we got anything even close to malevolent offering that's not tied to pets. That's all we're asking for!
Also NB typically has more crit chance AND damage than sorcs due to passivesEdited by Ecgberht_confused on February 22, 2023 12:50PM6 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭And let's forget about the sorcerer and remember the necromancer who was completely destroyed in this patch and the players don't even know how to play...1
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TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ecgberht_confused wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »If they get an instant-cast burst heal unassociated with pets, like every other class, I want Shadowy Disguise or a functioning Streak on my Templar. I’d also like Battle Roar too while we’re at it.
But NB does have both shadowy disguise AND an instant cast heal? Why is that fair for NB but not sorc?
"Malevolent Offering" is a very risky skill, coz the healing often hits other players. The range is pretty high. Furthermore the skill must crit, otherwise it's weak and expensive.
What's the average critical chance of Nbs in PvP? Maybe 30 to 45%?
So in the end you get two big "ifs".
Duels are a different story of course!
The only classes that do not risk the same would be DK and Warden0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Don't shoot the messenger people. Kevin is doing a fantastic job. It's the dev team that continues to baffle us. There's one noticeable quote that Kevin relayed, and that's a class can not be good at everything. That's a good thought in principle and should be adhered to. Unfortunately there's 3 classes that can do everything. Nightblade, Dragonknight and Warden. All of them are fantastic in PvE and fantastic in PvP, they can practically do all roles. Tank, heal, and especially DPS in PvE. Looking from a PvP perspective. There's literally nothing these classes do not have. They literally have everything they need. Dk literally had unlimited stamina sustain with ash cloud. These 3 classes have everything at there fingertips when it comes to PvP. So it's clear to me the devs DO NOT play PvP.. All are mobile due to how easy it is to stack speed, all have damage, all have great sustain, all have great healing and mitigation. These 5 core functions in PvP make them have everything more or less. It's all you need for PvP. Sorcerer has terrible sustain, terrible mitigation and terrible healing and terrible damage (Terrible damage is only due the fact we have to run so much resistance and sustain) so 4 out of the 5 main functions in PvP we don't have. And to add insult to injury our only mobility skill, Streak has ramping cost.
No one plays DPS Warden or NB in PVE unfortunately lol. DK and Necro are the only 2 classes in PvE rn
That's kinda overdramatic. Not everyone runs in a scorepushing or trifecta progressing group. In mid game there is plenty of wardens and nbs especially that warden is now one of the best classers for one bar heavy attack setups. Yeah nb and warden are not meta DPS but that doesn't mean noone plays them as DD in PvE.
Well that just means there are more casuals than try hards.
Well yes. ESO is mostly populated by casual players.0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »I want sorcerer as a whole to be buffed not just shield stacking option. I'm just fighting for that more simply due to the fact is the weakest out of all the styles of play by a huge margine and has been for many many years hence why people do not use them anymore. I do not play stamina or hybrid sorcerer however just looking at the passives and the kit vs other classes just at base it's obvious not as powerful as a Dk, Nb, Wardens and to a less extent a temp. Necro is garbage outside of bombing groups. Some of our passives are utterly terrible. I'm in full support of having empowered ward being a burst heal, making pets one bar, reworking passives, buffing darkdeal/morphs, making BOL do more ect as it would help the class in every possible playstyle. Just do not forget about the weakest form of sorcerer and that's pure max magicka shield sorcerer. It's the most favourite style of play across the board for mag specs and it's becoming more and more redundant due to it underperforming massively in today's climate. But yes the class as a whole needs buffing not just that one playstyle
People don’t play MagSorc in PvP because it is extremely unfriendly to new players, while extremely rewarding to veterans.
Any class, in any game, that has a steep learning curve to it, will be looked over by the majority.
Edit; I shouldn’t say people don’t play MagSorc in PvP, they are literally everywhere. Just not in duels, and that’s due to that skill curve.
It’s much easier to play a Dragonknight and DoT people up, or go invisible to blast someone with a 20k critical Spectral Bow.
I’m also in favor of making pets one-bar with a 20-30 second duration attached to them, but I don’t believe Sorcerer’s deserve better heals, that is their weak point, it’s always been that way. If they get an instant-cast burst heal unassociated with pets, like every other class, I want Shadowy Disguise or a functioning Streak on my Templar. I’d also like Battle Roar too while we’re at it.
You're basically getting an alternative to ball of lightning with the new mist form skill, so I think its fair if sorcs get a burst heal as a morph of ward so that they have an instant cast heal not tied to pets at the cost of giving up their shield.
Calling mist an alternative for ball of lightning is like calling DK chain an alternative for other gap cloers. It's truth on paper but real aplication of ability makes it way less effective and not a real alternative which is one of the reasons devs tried to buff chain in the first place. Even after fixes on PTS , mist is still super cluncky with that ground AoE targeting. Ball of lightning is also a weaker morph that barely anyone is using because stun os streak is way better so in reality we are getting a crippled version of a weaker morph. Not the end of the world but let's not pretend new mist will be a ground shaking deal. Templars especially would preffer to have current version of mist rather than new one. For them new mist change is a nerf.Edited by axi on February 22, 2023 2:32PM0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think an important thing to note is that I don't want to have to shield stack on a sorc. Shield stacking is not a good mechanic to have to rely on for survival. The Sorc shield should be strong enough on its own to not have to rely on running 2-3 shields and spending 2-3 global cooldowns to stay alive.
Imagine the opposite with healing. Imagine having to run multiple burst heals, and use them consecutively, to stay alive. That's what shield stacking is.
Not to mention it locks you into having to run light armor, which makes you much weaker and less powerful than the alternatives.
So yeah, shields need to be buffed or scaled better so that they can stand on their own as singular defensive options.7 -
AdamLAD✭✭✭✭✭Imagine if You had to use dragons blood, breath of life and that ridiculous nightblade heal as much as you have to with wards. That's actually a great analysis. Just constantly recasting after recasting 🤣3
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Destai✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In addition to taking feedback to the team about Sorc, we also took your feedback to the team regarding the state of Templars. We want to follow up on how the team uses feedback to inform combat and balance changes.
The combat team is always looking at data from various points of play (PvE, PvP, low-end to high-end damage parse, group content and solo play, etc.) and collective feedback across the board to make informed balanced adjustments. Many of the previous adjustments to Templar were directly made off of those points.
While there are no planned changes for Templar in U37, outside of anything already highlighted in patch notes, we're evaluating everchanging data and will continue to adjust around issues when they arise. Your continued feedback will be apart of that process.
Thanks for giving us some good details, appreciate the follow up. I feel like there's some conflict between balancing classes against a spreadsheet so all classes can do all things and giving us a unique feel for each class. Seems like DK's are getting all the love for the time being.0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah, I looked at my sorc some more. No major prophecy or savagery. No bar space to put like camo hunter or something. There is brutality and sorcery, on a needed skill but then do you use pots for some crit. No major or minor breach. No mending I mean, I still see sorcs capable of hitting hard in combos, but the buffs; they are not there when a lot of classes are walking around buffed to the gills and some have unnamed buffs to go with it.
Seems a tough spot as you don't want a ranged DK in survivability and burst so I get the "have a weakness" comment; but its kind of a mess.2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »
Undodgable executes with a big tooltip and a 20m range is a bad game design. Steel Tornado was an undodgable execute with a 9m range and got nerfed (rightfully so). It was so strong that people used it as both a spammable and an execute.
You're comparing apples and oranges here. Steel Tornado is an aoe execute. Radiant is single target. It'd be better to compare Impale and Radiant. Impale is dodgeable, but then again it isn't a channel either. There are downsides to being channels. And Radiant only tickles until under 20% anyways. And having a skill to counter dodge rolling is important. Besides, we don't want all classes to be the same.
I compared Steel Tornado with Radiant Destruction because they both scale at 50% HP, are undodgable, and can be used above 50% HP. Impale is only useful below 25%. This makes Steel tornado and Radiant Destruction more similar than Impale and Radiant Destruction.
Anyways, an execute that is undodgable AND has a long range should start scaling at a lower HP threshold, not at 50%. Impale is an example of an execute that would be fine if it’s undodgable because it scales at 25% HP. Whirling Blade is an example of an execute that can scale at 50% HP threshold because it’s easy to escape the range.
Execute damage that are long ranged and have a strong scaling should still be countered by more than one basic defensive maneuvers. The issue of people being too tanky is entirely different and needs different solutions, NOT making executes stronger to the point that it’s difficult to play against.Edited by StaticWave on February 22, 2023 4:58PMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭Ecgberht_confused wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »If they get an instant-cast burst heal unassociated with pets, like every other class, I want Shadowy Disguise or a functioning Streak on my Templar. I’d also like Battle Roar too while we’re at it.
But NB does have both shadowy disguise AND an instant cast heal? Why is that fair for NB but not sorc?
Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet, if the discussion was removing the necessity to slot pets on both bars, I would be in support of it 100%. I’m also referring to specific abilities, ie. Streak AoE undodgeable, unblockable stun that does damage and teleports you.
A closer similarity would be to request something like a Molten Whip on Templar, it’s “need” area is damage… I don’t have to tell you or anyone else what happens if Templar damages as good as heals again in-class. We’re back at square one.0 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.10 -
ForumBully✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet
Do you realize you just referred to the Sorc pets as an asset? There's no faster way to lose credibility.5 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
Undodgable executes with a big tooltip and a 20m range is a bad game design. Steel Tornado was an undodgable execute with a 9m range and got nerfed (rightfully so). It was so strong that people used it as both a spammable and an execute.
You're comparing apples and oranges here. Steel Tornado is an aoe execute. Radiant is single target. It'd be better to compare Impale and Radiant. Impale is dodgeable, but then again it isn't a channel either. There are downsides to being channels. And Radiant only tickles until under 20% anyways. And having a skill to counter dodge rolling is important. Besides, we don't want all classes to be the same.
I compared Steel Tornado with Radiant Destruction because they both scale at 50% HP, are undodgable, and can be used above 50% HP. Impale is only useful below 25%. This makes Steel tornado and Radiant Destruction more similar than Impale and Radiant Destruction.
Anyways, an execute that is undodgable AND has a long range should start scaling at a lower HP threshold, not at 50%. Impale is an example of an execute that would be fine if it’s undodgable because it scales at 25% HP. Whirling Blade is an example of an execute that can scale at 50% HP threshold because it’s easy to escape the range.
Execute damage that are long ranged and have a strong scaling should still be countered by more than one basic defensive maneuvers. The issue of people being too tanky is entirely different and needs different solutions, NOT making executes stronger to the point that it’s difficult to play against.
Just because the ability begins scaling at 50% does not mean that it reaches anywhere near the value of being impactful immediately at that 50% or even 40%. You need to hit them while they are under 20% to ensure a kill with one tick of the ability, and that’s on a build in Clever Alchemist, New Moon, Blackrose DW & Balorgh, as high as damage gets. Now if we’re not factoring in Undeath, something found on everybody that’s not a Werewolf, maybe 25%.
If given the choice of nerfing an Execute that executes people, or buffing Executes that aren’t actually securing kills as intended, I’d go with option #2. Which is why I’m not shouting from the rooftops to get Mage’s Wrath nerfed as it’s clearly overperforming in Deathmatch.1 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭ForumBully wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet
Do you realize you just referred to the Sorc pets as an asset? There's no faster way to lose credibility.
Trust me, I know they suck. The pets are horrible for damage as they don’t respond to pet commands as frequently as they need to, but contrary to popular belief, the Twilight Matriarch is phenomenal. That ability heals 2 targets with the strength of a full burst heal, without having to look at them; or even be near it, and then proceeds to heal itself for half.
Healer pain points are that they die and have a cast time, which is fair at least for the Twilight Matriarch as it’s performing like old Breath of Life, that mythic ability of old that’s in the gutter right now, that nobody is talking about, unlike an overperforming ability like Mage’s Wrath that’s being completely looked over. Weird enough.
As far as combat efficiency, Pets are horrible, they don’t move around the battlefield smoothly in PvP, they don’t have passive health regen, and the damage is debatable.
I’ll repeat myself though, if the discussion is removing the need to have to slot pets on both bars, I can agree to that, while giving them a 20-30 second duration, similar to Skeletal Arcanist.Skeletal Mage; another pet that’s underperforming, I proposed in a thread awhile back, quite a few changes to pets that I believe would be beneficial to the health and identity of pet builds as a whole…
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/624025/conjured-pet-reworks#latestEdited by The_Titan_Tim on February 22, 2023 8:19PM0 -
ForumBully✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »ForumBully wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet
Do you realize you just referred to the Sorc pets as an asset? There's no faster way to lose credibility.
Trust me, I know they suck. The pets are horrible for damage as they don’t respond to pet commands as frequently as they need to, but contrary to popular belief, the Twilight Matriarch is phenomenal. That ability heals 2 targets with the strength of a full burst heal, without having to look at them; or even be near it, and then proceeds to heal itself for half.
Healer pain points are that they die and have a cast time, which is fair at least for the Twilight Matriarch as it’s performing like old Breath of Life, that mythic ability of old that’s in the gutter right now, that nobody is talking about, unlike an overperforming ability like Mage’s Wrath that’s being completely looked over. Weird enough.
As far as combat efficiency, Pets are horrible, they don’t move around the battlefield smoothly in PvP, they don’t have passive health regen, and the damage is debatable.
I’ll repeat myself though, if the discussion is removing the need to have to slot pets on both bars, I can agree to that, while giving them a 20-30 second duration, similar to Skeletal Arcanist.Skeletal Mage; another pet that’s underperforming, I proposed in a thread awhile back, quite a few changed to pets that I believe would be beneficial to the health and identity of pet builds as a whole…
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/624025/conjured-pet-reworks#latest
Not only is it not worth two slots, it's not worth one. The only time it comes to your side is to die and explode taking you with it.
The suggestion to improve it only brings it up to skeletal Arcanist level, and that is a sad statement because that sucks too. It is hopeless as an open world burst heal...pets in general are hopeless in Cyrodiil and the only way to improve the situation with pets, all pets, is to not use them.1 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.
Pet commands on console are…- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press LT to call your pets back to you.
- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press RT to have your pet attack a ranged target.
- Heavy attack a target to have your pet switch to that one.
The Twilight Matriarch is the best burst heal in the game in group play as it hits two targets for full value without having to monitor where the players being healed are, similar to how Breath of Life worked, prior to it being deleted from the game.
People hear me call Honor the Dead “Breath of Life” and say, what is that?Edited by The_Titan_Tim on February 22, 2023 8:01PM0 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Regarding Sorcerers and their lack of unique buff/debuffs, this is intentional and there are no current plans to change this. Sorcerers do have some unique abilities in their kit, like silences. However, not locking Sorcerer into having unique buffs/debuff allows for more class diversity in group environments.
Oh well.
With U37, you manage to release a patch that is actually decent and gives reason for hope that maybe we won't have to dread the ominous arrival of new patches, like has been the case for the last years.
(Yes, maybe take that as feedback as well: Your patches have not been a reason to be excited about new stuff. Your patches have been a reason for fear and anxiety about your dreaded combat changes. And a general conviction that whatever you do, it'll make things worse - like AWA. For several cycles now.)
Anyway, there's a good update coming out...
... and at the same time, there are quotes like this. I don't even know where to start, and the snipped rest of the post raises even more questions, this is just the most egregious part. Like, wtf is that paragraph even supposed to mean???
And so, with only a few sentences, every budding confidence in the combat team is thoroughly destroyed again.Edited by Varana on February 22, 2023 8:00PM4 -
The_Titan_Tim wrote: »ForumBully wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet
Do you realize you just referred to the Sorc pets as an asset? There's no faster way to lose credibility.
I’ll repeat myself though, if the discussion is removing the need to have to slot pets on both bars, I can agree to that, while giving them a 20-30 second duration, similar to Skeletal Arcanist.Skeletal Mage; another pet that’s underperforming, I proposed in a thread awhile back, quite a few changed to pets that I believe would be beneficial to the health and identity of pet builds as a whole…
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/624025/conjured-pet-reworks#latest
Others will also repeat themselves that the discussion is NOT about having the pet in one vs 2 bars. It's about the fact that in PvP the heal is tied to a plaguebreak bomb fuse, that even if it doesn't kill you, will almost certainly be dead during any interaction that's longer than a gank. Leaving you channeling a resummon when you needed to heal instead2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.
Pet commands on console are…- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press LT to call your pets back to you.
- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press RT to have your pet attack a ranged target.
- Heavy attack a target to have your pet switch to that one.
The Twilight Matriarch is the best burst heal in the game in group play as it hits two targets for full value without having to monitor where the players being healed are, similar to how Breath of Life worked, prior to it being deleted from the game.
People hear me call Honor the Dead “Breath of Life” and say, what is that?
Ahaha
The only burst heal in the game you have to expend resources on to keep it alive to even heal you in the first place.5 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.
Pet commands on console are…- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press LT to call your pets back to you.
- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press RT to have your pet attack a ranged target.
- Heavy attack a target to have your pet switch to that one.
The Twilight Matriarch is the best burst heal in the game in group play as it hits two targets for full value without having to monitor where the players being healed are, similar to how Breath of Life worked, prior to it being deleted from the game.
People hear me call Honor the Dead “Breath of Life” and say, what is that?
Ahaha
The only burst heal in the game you have to expend resources on to keep it alive to even heal you in the first place.
If you learn how to Line of Sight properly, it’s pretty great for eating ST ultimates like Incap, or for interrupting burst combos by using it as a shield.0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »I want sorcerer as a whole to be buffed not just shield stacking option. I'm just fighting for that more simply due to the fact is the weakest out of all the styles of play by a huge margine and has been for many many years hence why people do not use them anymore. I do not play stamina or hybrid sorcerer however just looking at the passives and the kit vs other classes just at base it's obvious not as powerful as a Dk, Nb, Wardens and to a less extent a temp. Necro is garbage outside of bombing groups. Some of our passives are utterly terrible. I'm in full support of having empowered ward being a burst heal, making pets one bar, reworking passives, buffing darkdeal/morphs, making BOL do more ect as it would help the class in every possible playstyle. Just do not forget about the weakest form of sorcerer and that's pure max magicka shield sorcerer. It's the most favourite style of play across the board for mag specs and it's becoming more and more redundant due to it underperforming massively in today's climate. But yes the class as a whole needs buffing not just that one playstyle
People don’t play MagSorc in PvP because it is extremely unfriendly to new players, while extremely rewarding to veterans.
Any class, in any game, that has a steep learning curve to it, will be looked over by the majority.
Edit; I shouldn’t say people don’t play MagSorc in PvP, they are literally everywhere. Just not in duels, and that’s due to that skill curve.
It’s much easier to play a Dragonknight and DoT people up, or go invisible to blast someone with a 20k critical Spectral Bow.
I’m also in favor of making pets one-bar with a 20-30 second duration attached to them, but I don’t believe Sorcerer’s deserve better heals, that is their weak point, it’s always been that way. If they get an instant-cast burst heal unassociated with pets, like every other class, I want Shadowy Disguise or a functioning Streak on my Templar. I’d also like Battle Roar too while we’re at it.
You're basically getting an alternative to ball of lightning with the new mist form skill, so I think its fair if sorcs get a burst heal as a morph of ward so that they have an instant cast heal not tied to pets at the cost of giving up their shield.
They have one, it’s called Combat Prayer.0 -
ForumBully✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.
Pet commands on console are…- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press LT to call your pets back to you.
- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press RT to have your pet attack a ranged target.
- Heavy attack a target to have your pet switch to that one.
The Twilight Matriarch is the best burst heal in the game in group play as it hits two targets for full value without having to monitor where the players being healed are, similar to how Breath of Life worked, prior to it being deleted from the game.
People hear me call Honor the Dead “Breath of Life” and say, what is that?
Ahaha
The only burst heal in the game you have to expend resources on to keep it alive to even heal you in the first place.
If you learn how to Line of Sight properly, it’s pretty great for eating ST ultimates like Incap, or for interrupting burst combos by using it as a shield.
So it's the burst heal you let die as a body block AND the burst heal you have to keep alive.
Sounds awesome....jealous, other classes?5 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭ForumBully wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.
Pet commands on console are…- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press LT to call your pets back to you.
- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press RT to have your pet attack a ranged target.
- Heavy attack a target to have your pet switch to that one.
The Twilight Matriarch is the best burst heal in the game in group play as it hits two targets for full value without having to monitor where the players being healed are, similar to how Breath of Life worked, prior to it being deleted from the game.
People hear me call Honor the Dead “Breath of Life” and say, what is that?
Ahaha
The only burst heal in the game you have to expend resources on to keep it alive to even heal you in the first place.
If you learn how to Line of Sight properly, it’s pretty great for eating ST ultimates like Incap, or for interrupting burst combos by using it as a shield.
So it's the burst heal you let die as a body block AND the burst heal you have to keep alive.
Sounds awesome....jealous, other classes?
It’s extremely versatile, you use the ability as you need it, for either mitigation or healing. I wish we were all so lucky, to be honest. Sorcerer, Warden, and Necromancer are the only three classes that have cheesy ult eating pets built into their kit. While the rest of us need to run Engine Guardian for that utility, and I don’t hear anyone call that Plague-bait.0 -
Thecompton73✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.
Pet commands on console are…- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press LT to call your pets back to you.
- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press RT to have your pet attack a ranged target.
- Heavy attack a target to have your pet switch to that one.
The Twilight Matriarch is the best burst heal in the game in group play as it hits two targets for full value without having to monitor where the players being healed are, similar to how Breath of Life worked, prior to it being deleted from the game.
People hear me call Honor the Dead “Breath of Life” and say, what is that?
Ahaha
The only burst heal in the game you have to expend resources on to keep it alive to even heal you in the first place.
Plus now Stam Sorcs not only need to double bar the burst heal but they also need to clear another skill spot for a shield so they can try to keep it active for when they need it?2 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭Thecompton73 wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Sorcerer does have instant cast burst heals, they just need to protect their pet,
Yeah, no. The pet has such little health that it constantly dies, not to mention the extremely poor AI that causes it to constantly run off and die. Also, there is the fact that the pet is a considerably liability with its "ability" to explode in a plaguebreak bomb, which, since it has so little health, it will do. Then, you can get stun-locked while you have to resummon it. And, on top of all that, the heal isn't even guaranteed to hit you.
I don't consider a flying plaguebreak bomb that's just likely to get you killed as it is to actually heal you to be a reasonable, comparable, burst heal.
Pet commands on console are…- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press LT to call your pets back to you.
- Press and hold Left Stick and Right Stick, then press RT to have your pet attack a ranged target.
- Heavy attack a target to have your pet switch to that one.
The Twilight Matriarch is the best burst heal in the game in group play as it hits two targets for full value without having to monitor where the players being healed are, similar to how Breath of Life worked, prior to it being deleted from the game.
People hear me call Honor the Dead “Breath of Life” and say, what is that?
Ahaha
The only burst heal in the game you have to expend resources on to keep it alive to even heal you in the first place.
Plus now Stam Sorcs not only need to double bar the burst heal but they also need to clear another skill spot for a shield so they can try to keep it active for when they need it?
Stam Sorcs have access to Rally, last I checked that ability still functions? Or you could throw on a Restoration Staff if you want more restoration, there’s always Combat Prayer.
Even more revolutionary of an idea, have you heard of the set known as Mara’s Balm? Try it out, it’s pretty good I’ve been told.
Templar and Necromancer need two damage sets to kill competent players.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on February 22, 2023 8:55PM0 -
ForumBully✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
You misunderstand. I want advocates for improvements, not nerfs. Hitting the highest nail is a failed strategy.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on February 23, 2023 1:55PM0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭ForumBully wrote: »
You misunderstand. I want advocates for improvements, not nerfs. Hitting the highest nail is a failed strategy.
Sorcerer, Necromancer, and Templar are all performing exactly how Kevin described, while the other three just wear whatever stat dense sets are overperforming for the patch.
So yes, if we’re going to buff underused abilities, awesome. If we’re going to buff them in ways that eliminates the inherent drawbacks of playing specific classes, it’s a problem.
If you want work done on your class, you need to ask for the right things, improving Sorcerer defense by creating new HoTs or adding in-class no-catch burst heals, is unlikely.
If you want to buff Sorcerer, ask for well thought out, more reliable sustain passives and better damage buffs, those are much more actionable as that is the direction the class is meant to be played.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on February 23, 2023 1:56PM0