PTS Update 37 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Pelanora

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, we took your feedback to the combat team regarding the state of Sorcerer. We have a few comments to share.
....

Regarding Sorcerers and their lack of unique buff/debuffs, this is intentional and there are no current plans to change this. Sorcerers do have some unique abilities in their kit, like silences. However, not locking Sorcerer into having unique buffs/debuff allows for more class diversity in group environments.

You know, we never asked for a unique buff/debuff. To be unique, that would be a new buff/debuff. We didn't ask for brand new buffs/debuffs.

Although that would be very cool, I suspect youre pouring your resources into the new class, and nothing new will come for the original base game classes, ever- or not for year/s.

We asked for access to a couple of basic buffs/debuffs other classes have. See anything written by @Turtle_Bot.

We asked for existing buffs to not be added to the pile owned by dk, when sorc has so little- so, you know, we asked for balance.

That is very different question than the answer provided back to us.

Any chance on an answer from zos on what we actually asked? @ZOS_Kevin

Lancer1602

Pelanora wrote: »

.
"Interesting.

vDSR last boss HM damage rankings

the top 100 dps is made up of

18 necro
6 sorcs
8 templar
0 warden
1 nightblade
67 dragon knights

Xalvakka HM is worse.

Lord Falgravn HM is pretty much all necro and DK

Nahviintaas HM

It's all the same. Overwhelming numbers of DKs followed by a decent number of necro's and a handful of the rest."

---

Is this it? Is this the answer?

Zos want some hard classes, and an easy, enhance-accessibility, raise the floor- class? Succeed at endgame, be happy, sub-forever, class?

We think things should be balanced, we compare classes to the best-in-school class, but thats for nought if zos wants to provide an easy to play class. The others will only work within some theory, whatever it is, of that class.

So if that's right, no other class will ever catch up to dk, will ever be best at something compared to it, the only hope is to argue for 'within class' improvements (if we could figure out what that class WAS in the heads of the dev.s).

warden

ESO_Nightingale

Lancer1602 wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

.
"Interesting.

vDSR last boss HM damage rankings

the top 100 dps is made up of

18 necro
6 sorcs
8 templar
0 warden
1 nightblade
67 dragon knights

Xalvakka HM is worse.

Lord Falgravn HM is pretty much all necro and DK

Nahviintaas HM

It's all the same. Overwhelming numbers of DKs followed by a decent number of necro's and a handful of the rest."

---

Is this it? Is this the answer?

Zos want some hard classes, and an easy, enhance-accessibility, raise the floor- class? Succeed at endgame, be happy, sub-forever, class?

We think things should be balanced, we compare classes to the best-in-school class, but thats for nought if zos wants to provide an easy to play class. The others will only work within some theory, whatever it is, of that class.

So if that's right, no other class will ever catch up to dk, will ever be best at something compared to it, the only hope is to argue for 'within class' improvements (if we could figure out what that class WAS in the heads of the dev.s).

warden

this is a result of taking away passive damage from all warden dps except for frost warden, and nerfing sub assault burst by more than 20% in addition to making cutting dive more reasonable instead of a weird af giga-dot. result was frost warden was finally able to catch up to the rest of the dps builds of warden but warden as a whole dropped.

StaticWave

LonePirate wrote: »

Maybe I missed some things in the various patch notes over the weeks, but have any of the following issues been addressed in this latest update? If not, what can be done to have some sort of response from the dev team on them? These are Cyrodiil PVP related.

• The widespread stuck in combat bug, primarily in Cyrodiil, that has been plaguing us for YEARS. Players can remain stuck in combat for 30 minutes or more even after returning to their gate areas and literally doing nothing. Is this ever going to be fixed?
• Being unable to exit Cyrodiil delves. One of the few ways if not the only way to end the stuck in combat bug is to enter a delve in Cyrodiil. However, it's common to receive a campaign is full message when exiting a delve in prime time and thus being stuck in the delve for a bit. If I am in Cyrodiil, I should be part of the current campaign population that should guarantee me a place when I move from one part of Cyrodiil (a delve) to another part of Cyrodiil (the open world).
• The massive overtuning of Heavy Armor resistance especially with regard to Magic based skills/weapons. High Magicka/Spell Damage players can barely put a dent in the health of players outfitted with Heavy Armor and I'm not talking about tanks who take 3 digits worth of damage or even less depending on the attack/damage type.
• The damage underperformance of Light Armor for Magicka players. There is a negligible damage increase for players in Light Armor. A balanced game has Light Armor with High Damage and Low Resistance with Heavy Armor having Low Damage and High Resistance. Not ESO, as it has Light Armor with Low Damage and Low Resistance while Heavy Armor has High Damage and High Resistance. Battle Spirit could be used to remedy this problem without impacting PVE but for some reason this powerful manipulator of stats in Cyrodiil is not used to do so.
• The puzzling damage disparity between Stamina Weapon skills and Magicka Weapon skills. Watch players attack resource flag guards and you'll see this all the time. Players with Stamina Weapon skills can do 2x-3x as much damage as players with Magicka Weapon skills. It's not limited to ranged vs. melee differences as there are significant differences between bow players and destruction staff players.
• The overperformance of Vigor. There is absolutely no reason for this skill to heal so many players so significantly all at once. It's more powerful than Templar self heals. How does that make any sense? Stamina players deserve a strong self heal but this skill needs to have its effectiveness reduced significantly on targets beyond the caster, especially when multiple targets are affected.
• Heal stacking and stun evasion. I welcome feedback from others as I am still researching these two phenomena but these two events more so than high health and high resistances are the real reasons ball groups are so untouchable. Yes, gear, some skills, potions and constellation perks play a part; but there is something else going on here.
• Personal Pet Peeve: DK Chains and Dark Convergence are basically the same skill as they move player(s) to a new location nearby. However, Chains will fail north of 50% of the time while Dark Convergence is closer to a 0% failure rate. Yes, there is some stun evasion impacting Chains which is fine; but Dark Convergence seems to be a different beast altogether, especially when it permits stun stacking. Is it too much to ask to have both Chains and Dark Convergence work similarly?

For those who spend time in the various PVP elements of the game, please feel free to add to this list.

There’s no reason to use heavy armor when armor is so easy to get. Light/medium armor passives are so much better than heavy armor passives, and you can get back the majority of armor with Protective trait and having Minor Resolve.

TechMaybeHic

StaticWave wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Maybe I missed some things in the various patch notes over the weeks, but have any of the following issues been addressed in this latest update? If not, what can be done to have some sort of response from the dev team on them? These are Cyrodiil PVP related.

• The widespread stuck in combat bug, primarily in Cyrodiil, that has been plaguing us for YEARS. Players can remain stuck in combat for 30 minutes or more even after returning to their gate areas and literally doing nothing. Is this ever going to be fixed?
• Being unable to exit Cyrodiil delves. One of the few ways if not the only way to end the stuck in combat bug is to enter a delve in Cyrodiil. However, it's common to receive a campaign is full message when exiting a delve in prime time and thus being stuck in the delve for a bit. If I am in Cyrodiil, I should be part of the current campaign population that should guarantee me a place when I move from one part of Cyrodiil (a delve) to another part of Cyrodiil (the open world).
• The massive overtuning of Heavy Armor resistance especially with regard to Magic based skills/weapons. High Magicka/Spell Damage players can barely put a dent in the health of players outfitted with Heavy Armor and I'm not talking about tanks who take 3 digits worth of damage or even less depending on the attack/damage type.
• The damage underperformance of Light Armor for Magicka players. There is a negligible damage increase for players in Light Armor. A balanced game has Light Armor with High Damage and Low Resistance with Heavy Armor having Low Damage and High Resistance. Not ESO, as it has Light Armor with Low Damage and Low Resistance while Heavy Armor has High Damage and High Resistance. Battle Spirit could be used to remedy this problem without impacting PVE but for some reason this powerful manipulator of stats in Cyrodiil is not used to do so.
• The puzzling damage disparity between Stamina Weapon skills and Magicka Weapon skills. Watch players attack resource flag guards and you'll see this all the time. Players with Stamina Weapon skills can do 2x-3x as much damage as players with Magicka Weapon skills. It's not limited to ranged vs. melee differences as there are significant differences between bow players and destruction staff players.
• The overperformance of Vigor. There is absolutely no reason for this skill to heal so many players so significantly all at once. It's more powerful than Templar self heals. How does that make any sense? Stamina players deserve a strong self heal but this skill needs to have its effectiveness reduced significantly on targets beyond the caster, especially when multiple targets are affected.
• Heal stacking and stun evasion. I welcome feedback from others as I am still researching these two phenomena but these two events more so than high health and high resistances are the real reasons ball groups are so untouchable. Yes, gear, some skills, potions and constellation perks play a part; but there is something else going on here.
• Personal Pet Peeve: DK Chains and Dark Convergence are basically the same skill as they move player(s) to a new location nearby. However, Chains will fail north of 50% of the time while Dark Convergence is closer to a 0% failure rate. Yes, there is some stun evasion impacting Chains which is fine; but Dark Convergence seems to be a different beast altogether, especially when it permits stun stacking. Is it too much to ask to have both Chains and Dark Convergence work similarly?

For those who spend time in the various PVP elements of the game, please feel free to add to this list.

There’s no reason to use heavy armor when armor is so easy to get. Light/medium armor passives are so much better than heavy armor passives, and you can get back the majority of armor with Protective trait and having Minor Resolve.

I disagree there. There are in fact, multiple ways to skin a cat when it comes to resist, but light armor having natural lower resist AND the negative passive to take more damage from martial attacks, which most the bug hitters are; loses out to heavy innate extra resist as well as more health to compensate for it's equivalent magical attacks damage increase . It's much more efficient to run heavy with offensive stats and traits than try to run light with defensive traits. I mean who actually run protective? Or Lady mundus?

Now medium! medium is the way to go if you can.

StaticWave

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Maybe I missed some things in the various patch notes over the weeks, but have any of the following issues been addressed in this latest update? If not, what can be done to have some sort of response from the dev team on them? These are Cyrodiil PVP related.

• The widespread stuck in combat bug, primarily in Cyrodiil, that has been plaguing us for YEARS. Players can remain stuck in combat for 30 minutes or more even after returning to their gate areas and literally doing nothing. Is this ever going to be fixed?
• Being unable to exit Cyrodiil delves. One of the few ways if not the only way to end the stuck in combat bug is to enter a delve in Cyrodiil. However, it's common to receive a campaign is full message when exiting a delve in prime time and thus being stuck in the delve for a bit. If I am in Cyrodiil, I should be part of the current campaign population that should guarantee me a place when I move from one part of Cyrodiil (a delve) to another part of Cyrodiil (the open world).
• The massive overtuning of Heavy Armor resistance especially with regard to Magic based skills/weapons. High Magicka/Spell Damage players can barely put a dent in the health of players outfitted with Heavy Armor and I'm not talking about tanks who take 3 digits worth of damage or even less depending on the attack/damage type.
• The damage underperformance of Light Armor for Magicka players. There is a negligible damage increase for players in Light Armor. A balanced game has Light Armor with High Damage and Low Resistance with Heavy Armor having Low Damage and High Resistance. Not ESO, as it has Light Armor with Low Damage and Low Resistance while Heavy Armor has High Damage and High Resistance. Battle Spirit could be used to remedy this problem without impacting PVE but for some reason this powerful manipulator of stats in Cyrodiil is not used to do so.
• The puzzling damage disparity between Stamina Weapon skills and Magicka Weapon skills. Watch players attack resource flag guards and you'll see this all the time. Players with Stamina Weapon skills can do 2x-3x as much damage as players with Magicka Weapon skills. It's not limited to ranged vs. melee differences as there are significant differences between bow players and destruction staff players.
• The overperformance of Vigor. There is absolutely no reason for this skill to heal so many players so significantly all at once. It's more powerful than Templar self heals. How does that make any sense? Stamina players deserve a strong self heal but this skill needs to have its effectiveness reduced significantly on targets beyond the caster, especially when multiple targets are affected.
• Heal stacking and stun evasion. I welcome feedback from others as I am still researching these two phenomena but these two events more so than high health and high resistances are the real reasons ball groups are so untouchable. Yes, gear, some skills, potions and constellation perks play a part; but there is something else going on here.
• Personal Pet Peeve: DK Chains and Dark Convergence are basically the same skill as they move player(s) to a new location nearby. However, Chains will fail north of 50% of the time while Dark Convergence is closer to a 0% failure rate. Yes, there is some stun evasion impacting Chains which is fine; but Dark Convergence seems to be a different beast altogether, especially when it permits stun stacking. Is it too much to ask to have both Chains and Dark Convergence work similarly?

For those who spend time in the various PVP elements of the game, please feel free to add to this list.

There’s no reason to use heavy armor when armor is so easy to get. Light/medium armor passives are so much better than heavy armor passives, and you can get back the majority of armor with Protective trait and having Minor Resolve.

I disagree there. There are in fact, multiple ways to skin a cat when it comes to resist, but light armor having natural lower resist AND the negative passive to take more damage from martial attacks, which most the bug hitters are; loses out to heavy innate extra resist as well as more health to compensate for it's equivalent magical attacks damage increase . It's much more efficient to run heavy with offensive stats and traits than try to run light with defensive traits. I mean who actually run protective? Or Lady mundus?

Now medium! medium is the way to go if you can.

Lots of people run protective. You also need to factor in the crit chance/crit damage/pen acquired by running light and medium.

Sacrificing 3 infused traits for 3.3k armor is not a big deal compared to sacrificing 5k pen + crit chance or 10% crit damage + 10% weapon dmg.

This is not to mention you have access to a universal Major Evasion in medium, which is even more mitigation than heavy armor.

StaticWave

I run 3 light, 3 medium, 1 heavy and my armor fully buffed is still at 26k back bar on a stamsorc with zero protective because of Minor Resolve. Templar and DK can reach 28k easily. With Protective I can easily reach 28k armor.

StaticWave

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

StaticWave

Furthermore, light armor actually helps you take less damage against hard hitting abilities like Whip, Concealed Weapon, Assassin's will, etc because they are all magicka-based damage.

My light armor spell resistance is pretty much very close to the value of heavy armor spell resistance, and I also take less Magic damage as well in light. I would've taken more in heavy armor. Melee stamina damage is very rare now so you won't see them as often.

Therefore, I think heavy armor is not as good as it used to be because you just get so much more stats out of using light and heavy armor, and that the meta currently favors magicka based abilities, which in turn favors light armor.

TechMaybeHic

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

The_Titan_Tim

@ZOS_Kevin,

Hey, just wanted to add more to the conversation regarding Templar balance, one thing that’s not being discussed would be Templar Support.

One of the major areas that the class is lacking, is that it doesn’t excel as a support, when it feels like we’re being pushed into that direction with all of the recent changes to our class.

As a Healer or a Tank, the class doesn’t provide anything unique that makes a team consider bringing them along, Radiant Aura is an ability purely designed to benefit sustain, but falls short as it has no auxiliary effects like Replenishing Path on Nightblade, we have no AoE roots like Choking Talons or Gripping Shards, we’ve even lost our root from the synergy between Destructive Clench and Wall of Frost, we have no in-class chains, or any unique group utility buffs like Major Cowardice from Fear or Minor Toughness on Warden passively for healing.

Two of our Majors have been rendered obsolete over the years, Major Defile on Dark Flare, and Major Maim on Nova as these provide such a small value compared to when they were considered the main flavor of their respective abilities.

While I understand the logic behind Templar’s cut to offense, it feels pretty bad playing as a “Bastion of Light” or a “Beacon of Hope” right now and I would really appreciate it if your team could take a look at the utility aspect of our class and how it performs comparatively with other choices.

DC137

Please don't change Harmony its the only pvp build I've ever worked towards to properly try pvp and i was 90% finished grinding for it!

StaticWave

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I’m a stamsorc with Streak. I hit the speed cap without using Swift.

I don’t have sea serpent because I don’t have the DLC, but DDF is good.

What’s keeping me alive is kiting lol. I’ve run this for 4 patches and honestly have not had any issues.

StaticWave

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

TechMaybeHic

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

StaticWave

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

TechMaybeHic

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

Last I played stamsorc much was before they made a change to crit surge. Healing with hurricane up, gave me time. It was at the time; lacking burst from pre hybrid. Selene's was popular at the time. It's been years.

StaticWave

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

Last I played stamsorc much was before they made a change to crit surge. Healing with hurricane up, gave me time. It was at the time; lacking burst from pre hybrid. Selene's was popular at the time. It's been years.

Ahhh it's been awhile then. Crit chance wasn't nuked at the time. I remember hitting 40% crit quite easily.

The current stamsorc is pretty bastardized lol. Not worth playing the class in its current iteration.

UNSeki

Please, give shields skills mitigation to DoTs. I really want this. lol

I think sorcerers have potential to do well with more tankiness in their kit. I use an unconventional light armor Armor Master vampire (with Undeath) build that can often outlast and kill dedicated tanks on BG, but that's only because I invested so much time into it (and it's still far from perfect, especially in non-DM modes).

I find that, as a sorc, I simply cannot hold the chaosball. Like, ever. I just don't have the heals/tankiness to do it.

StaticWave

UNSeki wrote: »

Please, give shields skills mitigation to DoTs. I really want this. lol

I think sorcerers have potential to do well with more tankiness in their kit. I use an unconventional light armor Armor Master vampire (with Undeath) build that can often outlast and kill dedicated tanks on BG, but that's only because I invested so much time into it (and it's still far from perfect, especially in non-DM modes).

I find that, as a sorc, I simply cannot hold the chaosball. Like, ever. I just don't have the heals/tankiness to do it.

Sorc actually does really well if it doesn't need to worry about survivability. The class has some of the best consistent burst in the game.

With that said, buffing its survivability needs to be done carefully. While other classes have defensive HoTs, most of Sorc's HoTs are offensive, meaning you need to do damage to heal. This is fine and suited the class's aggressive playstyle. However, the nerfs to crit chance greatly affected its healing potential. Not only that, but Sorc also lacks a true burst heal.

I think giving the class a passive like NB where slotting a Dark Magic ability increases crit chance by X value would be a good step towards giving the class back its offensive healing potential. Turning Empowered Shield morph into a burst heal is also another step to fix the class' major weakness of not having a decent burst heal. Warden has 2 class burst heals, so I don't see why Sorc can't have 2.

To compensate for these changes, I don't think you need to give the class anymore Major buffs. While bar space is an issue for the class, it is probably best to keep it that way because if you allow Sorc to have access to Major Prophecy/Major Breach through an ability like Curse or Frag, you're going to allow Sorc to stack as many damage abilities as possible, while having all those important debuffs in the game. This will simply make the class TOO STRONG. Think about it, if I can slot Crushing Shock, Frag, Curse, and Bound Arms and still have Major Breach + Major Prophecy, a burst heal, and a bunch of other defensive abilities, I'm going to have even more burst and even more defense. I'd be too strong of a class.

Hesperax79

@ZOS_Kevin

I know that the question was asked long time ago, but about the Necro:
If Bomber Necro is not a wanted playstyle the make viable playstyle of the class, like,

MagCro: Curses (Dot's, Debuffs and Buff removal) with lot of pets. Small pets and big pets, maybe permanent pets (at least until you are in combat)

StamCro: Knight-of-Death. Slow monster in heavy armor, damage-based self heal, slow but powerfull attack.

If you give reason to play with the class the ppl will do.

katorga

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

Last I played stamsorc much was before they made a change to crit surge. Healing with hurricane up, gave me time. It was at the time; lacking burst from pre hybrid. Selene's was popular at the time. It's been years.

Ahhh it's been awhile then. Crit chance wasn't nuked at the time. I remember hitting 40% crit quite easily.

The current stamsorc is pretty bastardized lol. Not worth playing the class in its current iteration.

Correct. Stamsorc still does what stamsorc does, but for me, i can do the same thing, better, easier using NB now. NB is now a faster class than stamsorc, with more damage, more burst and way, way better healing, with the added benefit that that NB class kit is so overloaded at this point I have ZERO dependencies on sets or weapon lines. NB does all this while wasting fewer skill slots and GCD on buffs.

gariondavey

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

Last I played stamsorc much was before they made a change to crit surge. Healing with hurricane up, gave me time. It was at the time; lacking burst from pre hybrid. Selene's was popular at the time. It's been years.

Ahhh it's been awhile then. Crit chance wasn't nuked at the time. I remember hitting 40% crit quite easily.

The current stamsorc is pretty bastardized lol. Not worth playing the class in its current iteration.

Correct. Stamsorc still does what stamsorc does, but for me, i can do the same thing, better, easier using NB now. NB is now a faster class than stamsorc, with more damage, more burst and way, way better healing, with the added benefit that that NB class kit is so overloaded at this point I have ZERO dependencies on sets or weapon lines. NB does all this while wasting fewer skill slots and GCD on buffs.

How is nb faster? Minor + major is the same as sorc. Neither get unique speed increases. Sorc has streak which combined with minor + major gets you around faster than a nb could.

Chilly-McFreeze

gariondavey wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

Last I played stamsorc much was before they made a change to crit surge. Healing with hurricane up, gave me time. It was at the time; lacking burst from pre hybrid. Selene's was popular at the time. It's been years.

Ahhh it's been awhile then. Crit chance wasn't nuked at the time. I remember hitting 40% crit quite easily.

The current stamsorc is pretty bastardized lol. Not worth playing the class in its current iteration.

Correct. Stamsorc still does what stamsorc does, but for me, i can do the same thing, better, easier using NB now. NB is now a faster class than stamsorc, with more damage, more burst and way, way better healing, with the added benefit that that NB class kit is so overloaded at this point I have ZERO dependencies on sets or weapon lines. NB does all this while wasting fewer skill slots and GCD on buffs.

How is nb faster? Minor + major is the same as sorc. Neither get unique speed increases. Sorc has streak which combined with minor + major gets you around faster than a nb could.

That's all that you got out of the statement?

You don't need to cast a minor expedition skill, as it's passively baked into NB's spammable.
Shades let's you cross space better (through objects) and faster than streak. Yes, it's different but you're not immobile by any means. Plus vamp streak is a thing now.

katorga

How is nb faster? Minor + major is the same as sorc. Neither get unique speed increases. Sorc has streak which combined with minor + major gets you around faster than a nb could.

Passive minor, almost 100% uptime on major with core skills I would use/slot anyway so no wasted slots or GCD wasted buffing. No need for bow, race against time, elude, whatever for Major. Less things to worry about. The speed is just "there".

I don't count streak, which I really like, as base movement speed; it is huge advantage over a targeted gap closer, but doesn't everyone get a "blink" next patch? Assuming the new mist form works, scratch that advantage.

(Don't forget the NB gap closer gives you another 10% damage increase...lol peeps were complaining about major berserk on DK gap closer)

NB still has shade or invis, different but same outcome as streak for escape. No match for offensive streak, how I primarily use it.

Turtle_Bot

gariondavey wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

Last I played stamsorc much was before they made a change to crit surge. Healing with hurricane up, gave me time. It was at the time; lacking burst from pre hybrid. Selene's was popular at the time. It's been years.

Ahhh it's been awhile then. Crit chance wasn't nuked at the time. I remember hitting 40% crit quite easily.

The current stamsorc is pretty bastardized lol. Not worth playing the class in its current iteration.

Correct. Stamsorc still does what stamsorc does, but for me, i can do the same thing, better, easier using NB now. NB is now a faster class than stamsorc, with more damage, more burst and way, way better healing, with the added benefit that that NB class kit is so overloaded at this point I have ZERO dependencies on sets or weapon lines. NB does all this while wasting fewer skill slots and GCD on buffs.

How is nb faster? Minor + major is the same as sorc. Neither get unique speed increases. Sorc has streak which combined with minor + major gets you around faster than a nb could.

NB is faster because it gets to have both minor and major expedition. Minor is passive on their BiS spammable and major is secondary effect of one of their best HoTs, i.e. both are secondary passive parts of core skills that don't force the player to make a choice to when deciding to include these buffs on their build. Meanwhile sorcerer has to choose between either buff since they are only given on different morphs of the same base ability and as such, sorc cannot get both at the same time without going out of the class kit and giving up something else to do so.

Shade also allows NB to teleport in so many more ways than streak could ever hope to, it allows vertical, LoS, through walls, across impassible terrain and provides a DoT as well as maim for additional mitigation. All classes are also getting access to a pseudo ball of lightning ability with the rework to mist form, so streak is not going to be unique there either.

TL//DR: NB is faster because it gets both speed buffs passively on core skills, sorc has to choose between the buffs and cannot naturally get both at once while also needing to make room for them on non-existent bar space if it wants both, and streak is not going to be as unique anymore with the changes to mist form.

Cloudrest

@ZOS_Kevin

I'd also like to pass on the suggestion that incremental balance patches happen in-between larger content updates. I'm meaning like a monthly combat balance patch where outliers can be corrected without waiting what feels like 3-4 months for basic tweaks to underperforming/overperforming classes/builds/skills/sets etc.

I think it'd give the combat team some much-needed flexibility to adjust things, whilst leaving large overhauls to the combat system that truly shake up the meta for content patches.

gariondavey

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For example this is one of the builds I run in different armor combinations.

1) 5 Heavy + 1 medium + 1 light, all infused jewelries



2) 5 light + 1 medium + 1 heavy, all protective jewelries



3) 3 light + 3 medium + 1 heavy, 2 protective 1 infused




IMO unless you plan on using Evasion, the 3rd combination is the best because you're only sacrificing 2.5k HP, 2.3k armor, and ~150 weapon dmg to gain 2% crit chance, 4% crit damage + crit healing, 2k pen, and a bunch of other passives from both light and medium armor. These are much better than strictly armor because armor is so easily countered nowadays with Corrosive and easily accessible pen. Furthermore, Undeath makes heavy armor not as strong as before.

You're using a very particular build that honestly is not wide spread . No single Sea Serpent Coil with swift. No Maras. Low overall resist and crit resist low speed. Honestly whats probably keeping you alive is engine guardian and maybe Ball over streak? Wouldn't ever run that build myself.

I also have 26k armor back bar, 36k max HP, and daedric trickery buffs. Major Protection/Vitality/Mending are amazing.

What class do you play specifically? This build was tailored to my playstyle so it’s not exactly for everyone.

I'd say I'm homeless as far as a main is concerned. Sorc is the only one I haven't really played since update 35/36. Mostly I run brawlers though. I use Maras on pretty much everything lol

Well Mara is a meta set lol. Most people run Mara/Rallying Cry.

Part of the reason why I have lower resistances than normal builds (I guess 26k is low by today's standards) is because I've done so much dueling that the majority of my defense comes from blocking/rolling/streaking/using movement. This greatly affected how I play in other PvP contents.

I used to run builds with 33k+ resistances but I needed more damage so I just gradually dropped armor until I could comfortably play at my current resistances. It took a while to adapt, but I wouldn't recommend this build for someone who just got into stamsorc.

I've also done several experiments slotting this exact build on other classes and the difference is very noticeable. I hate to complain all the time, but man stamsorc is so bad defensively lol. On other classes I'm twice as tanky without putting in as much effort. I wish ZOS could just buff sorc's survivability a little bit more so we can have more options in how we play.

Last I played stamsorc much was before they made a change to crit surge. Healing with hurricane up, gave me time. It was at the time; lacking burst from pre hybrid. Selene's was popular at the time. It's been years.

Ahhh it's been awhile then. Crit chance wasn't nuked at the time. I remember hitting 40% crit quite easily.

The current stamsorc is pretty bastardized lol. Not worth playing the class in its current iteration.

Correct. Stamsorc still does what stamsorc does, but for me, i can do the same thing, better, easier using NB now. NB is now a faster class than stamsorc, with more damage, more burst and way, way better healing, with the added benefit that that NB class kit is so overloaded at this point I have ZERO dependencies on sets or weapon lines. NB does all this while wasting fewer skill slots and GCD on buffs.

How is nb faster? Minor + major is the same as sorc. Neither get unique speed increases. Sorc has streak which combined with minor + major gets you around faster than a nb could.

NB is faster because it gets to have both minor and major expedition. Minor is passive on their BiS spammable and major is secondary effect of one of their best HoTs, i.e. both are secondary passive parts of core skills that don't force the player to make a choice to when deciding to include these buffs on their build. Meanwhile sorcerer has to choose between either buff since they are only given on different morphs of the same base ability and as such, sorc cannot get both at the same time without going out of the class kit and giving up something else to do so.

Shade also allows NB to teleport in so many more ways than streak could ever hope to, it allows vertical, LoS, through walls, across impassible terrain and provides a DoT as well as maim for additional mitigation. All classes are also getting access to a pseudo ball of lightning ability with the rework to mist form, so streak is not going to be unique there either.

TL//DR: NB is faster because it gets both speed buffs passively on core skills, sorc has to choose between the buffs and cannot naturally get both at once while also needing to make room for them on non-existent bar space if it wants both, and streak is not going to be as unique anymore with the changes to mist form.

That doesn't mean it is faster, lol. They have the same speed. But I understand what you are trying to get across in your tldr section.

gariondavey

Cloudrest wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

I'd also like to pass on the suggestion that incremental balance patches happen in-between larger content updates. I'm meaning like a monthly combat balance patch where outliers can be corrected without waiting what feels like 3-4 months for basic tweaks to underperforming/overperforming classes/builds/skills/sets etc.

I think it'd give the combat team some much-needed flexibility to adjust things, whilst leaving large overhauls to the combat system that truly shake up the meta for content patches.

Other games do this and it makes for much better gameplay.
Please consider this @ZOS_Kevin !

StaticWave

gariondavey wrote: »

That doesn't mean it is faster, lol. They have the same speed. But I understand what you are trying to get across in your tldr section.

I think what they mean in a nutshell is NB has access to both Expedition buffs with class abilities, while Sorc can only choose 1 or the other. Realistically though it's not a big deal because you'd slot RAT for Major Expedition, which is actually a benefit considering you'd also get Minor Force + a snare/root cleanse and immunity. Although one could also argue that you'd give up important buffs whereas a NB doesn't have to, but it's not a big deal on a healing build.