Official Discussion Thread, "Unveiling The New Arcanist Class"

ajkb78

Gosh, that's lame.

ajkb78

It takes a whole year to figure out how to weld a roguelike scenery-and-mobs generator into a game engine that's been around for a decade? Wow. How... disappointing.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Seraphayel wrote: »

Most requested and easiest to implement while still being able to heavily monetize it

That’s how it should be paraphrased if we’re honest.

Most requested would definitely be either new skill lines, new weapons or Spellcrafting. There’s nowhere the demand for a new class as there was for stuff that affects all players and builds equally. A new class is just the easiest way as it’s still a flashy feature, but not as complex to implement as something like Spellcrafting.

Or a new weapon skilline. Or some overhaul of zones, or some harder overland mode.

Elsonso

ajkb78 wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Look, I'm as excited for this class as anyone, it looks AWESOME!
But calling it a "feature" was pretty misleading. A feature is something that existing characters can participate in. This isn't.

Also, any chance you can finally give us class change tokens?!
I desperately want my main to be an Arcanist (from what we've seen, it's everything I always wanted out of Sorcerer but didn't get), but the thought of having to start over makes me want to give up.

I don't think the new class is the feature. Near the end, they mentioned a new infinite dungeon system to be released in an update after the Necrom chapter.

That's not the new feature either. That's just something so they have *something* to sell the Q3 DLC as rather than purely QoL updates which would presumably mostly apply throughout the base game.

The new Q4 feature is, as far as I can tell, still entirely under wraps and no hint of what it is came out in the reveal except that it's a major feature. I've speculated elsewhere what I think it might be, there are certainly some obvious candidates, but ZoS gonna ZoS, I could be completely wrong.

Same as q2 feature will be the new class q4 is a new dungeon system that we've been told of, leaving q3 with just bug fixes and qol stuff while only q1 having classical dungeons same as always.

Watch the stream again. The endless dungeon is q3, to provide *something* interesting alongside a whole update that would otherwise be bugfixes and QOL.

Endless dungeon is Update 40. That is 4Q.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Grandsheba wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Grandsheba wrote: »

I LOATHE new classes, the one of BIGGEST issues in this game is constant restarting on progress. This game has no real evolution just a constant cycle of resets. A new class is not bringing something new its something that we are familiar with, tutorials play and another hard grind back to the 3k cp system..

Herma mora is dope but the way you implemented the deadric prince of fate and knowledge is horrible. No black books? There are an infinite number of black books and they were one of the most Ineresting things in the dragonborn dlc so how did you miss this opportunity.

Lastly stop making new classes and make new skill lines, I feel this new update will be better received if you offered 3 new skill lines that revolves around finding black books and earning the black books through the storyline and other side quest. Allowing both new and vet players to expand in both lore and their builds. This saves spaces and resources as well for not needed a new character slot or the wasted time of logging out to switch gear and ect.

STOP MAKING NEW CLASSES AND MAKE NEW SKILL LINES!! Balance wise this opens up many opportunities to allow for other classes to catch up if they feel under performing as well instead of making yet another class you have to Balance with the previous poorly balanced ones.

You still have time to fix this:
1. Change from new class to 3 new deadirc skill lines.
2. Add black books to the quest that unlock the new skills and morphs making the storyline worth playing.
3. Bring some level of difficulty or vet play for the questline to feel like an immersive threat to be played solo or with guild mates/friends.
4. Pay attention to this thread and your long playing fan base, we don't like to restart over and over so stop doing that and just evolve the game by adding new skill lines and counters to what ever seems over powered, no more nerfs. We want to achive CHIM.

We love to replay stuff, that is part of elderscroll

Part of elderscrolls since Redguard was rpg choice, the abile to craft your character and improve them. The whole point of the game is CHIM, starting over is a choice. But with dlcs you weren't forced to start over for a class or a new ability, you could add it to your current character and continue the story. That is TES, that is progression. If you want to start over thats fine, I've done it too bjt I wasn't forced to.

Making this a skill line adds choice for progression or to start over. Win win for all players.

Loss for all player that actualy wanted a class and paid money because of it. Now that zos as advertised a new class switching it would be a huge disrespect to these people.

Making it skill line is worst for those who actually wanted to play an arcanist as ignoring other class skill/passive to play as an arcanist would only make our character weaker than one who mix skill line. This would also cause problem with certain tral leader, for exemple if they bring a necro they may expect you it to bring major vulnerability or they may want to choose a warden healer for minor toughness. This will cause problem

So making it a skill line will worsen the experiance of those wha wanted a class, of those who preordered the chapter because a new class was advertise.

New skill line would be nice but shouldnt come at the expence of a wanted and annouced feature.

Syldras

Jammy420 wrote: »

The ogma infinium doesnt disappear when you read from it, it could be something along those lines.

They said it's not one of the Black Books, neither the Oghma Infinium, but something like the Arcanist's personally spellbook. A grimoire, so to say. Still makes me think that this might be regarded as something like a collection of "scrolls" bound as a book. That scrolls are normally a loose collection doesn't mean binding them would not work. Similar to most books (also in real life) having a rectangular shape doesn't mean they could not be bound in a spherical form it someone wanted that (for religious reason or whatever). It doesn't change functionality. I just hope they come up with a good lore explanation, then I'm fine with it.

tohopka_eso wrote: »

Curious, maybe wrong but wasn't there a post a while ago that said they can update and/or change lore as needed?

I don't think they said that - and I hope they won't just randomly change things without keeping consistency and logic in mind. That said, I think it's fine to add new things to lore, especially about topics and time periods where there wasn't much information about before. It's even okay to contradict lorebooks, as they are not reliable, but just subjective descriptions by their (fictional) author. There should not be contradictions to things we've personally seen/experiences in the games, though, things that might be regarded a fact.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Syldras wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

The ogma infinium doesnt disappear when you read from it, it could be something along those lines.

They said it's not one of the Black Books, neither the Oghma Infinium, but something like the Arcanist's personally spellbook. A grimoire, so to say. Still makes me think that this might be regarded as something like a collection of "scrolls" bound as a book. That scrolls are normally a loose collection doesn't mean binding them would not work. Similar to most books (also in real life) having a rectangular shape doesn't mean they could not be bound in a spherical form it someone wanted that (for religious reason or whatever). It doesn't change functionality. I just hope they come up with a good lore explanation, then I'm fine with it.

tohopka_eso wrote: »

Curious, maybe wrong but wasn't there a post a while ago that said they can update and/or change lore as needed?

I don't think they said that - and I hope they won't just randomly change things without keeping consistency and logic in mind. That said, I think it's fine to add new things to lore, especially about topics and time periods where there wasn't much information about before. It's even okay to contradict lorebooks, as they are not reliable, but just subjective descriptions by their (fictional) author. There should not be contradictions to things we've personally seen/experiences in the games, though, things that might be regarded a fact.

I dont see a problem with not using up scroll uppon using. To me its more like a game mechanic than lore. No differant than suddenly being able to dual wield spell or weapon or loosing the ability to use spell while having a shield in Skyrim. Or even eso completely changing staff from skyrim and adding block to dual wield.

Syldras

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont see a problem with not using up scroll uppon using. To me its more like a game mechanic than lore.

Well, okay. Same issue as with potions, probably. At least I think no one is swallowing them including their bottle - I hope. Then again, in TES3 Morrowind, raw glass was an alchemy ingredient and could be eaten Dwemer metal too, by the way.

Elsonso

Syldras wrote: »

tohopka_eso wrote: »

Curious, maybe wrong but wasn't there a post a while ago that said they can update and/or change lore as needed?

I don't think they said that - and I hope they won't just randomly change things without keeping consistency and logic in mind. That said, I think it's fine to add new things to lore, especially about topics and time periods where there wasn't much information about before. It's even okay to contradict lorebooks, as they are not reliable, but just subjective descriptions by their (fictional) author. There should not be contradictions to things we've personally seen/experiences in the games, though, things that might be regarded a fact.

Lore exists to explain what they are doing, not limit what they are doing. I am sure they try to stay within the established Lore, but if that does not work, the Lore can be updated to make it work. Loopholes work best for this and the Lore can be rewritten to cover up the seams. Bethesda owns the IP, so as long as Bethesda is on board with what they are doing, all is good.

For an example relative to current events... think "dragons".

DaveMoeDee

TaSheen wrote: »

Broken23 wrote: »

Lydawobbles wrote: »

Will we get more character slots? Or do we have to delete a character to be able to be an Arcanist?

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1618356310365589504?t=vFG5V7Ol-PCHy7rOmz6MyQ&s=19

free character slot with chapter purchase

So now we know!

Nice. Something to spend my crowns on, which are just sitting there. Should be 21 slots though, 3 per class. Not that I actually need 3 arcanists like my 3 of every other class. I guess 20 is better so I don't waste too much time grinding the character and skill leveling.

I also have to catch up on all of last year's content. I was going to stop buying expansions and just ESO+ a month per year, but that wouldn't include the new class, so ZOS got me there.

After catching up on content with my main, I am actually considering a full casual playthrough of all content with an Arcanist.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

Lore exists to explain what they are doing, not limit what they are doing. I am sure they try to stay within the established Lore, but if that does not work, the Lore can be updated to make it work. Loopholes work best for this and the Lore can be rewritten to cover up the seams. Bethesda owns the IP, so as long as Bethesda is on board with what they are doing, all is good.
For an example relative to current events... think "dragons".

They can, of course. But, while there are inconsistencies every now and then, they should know that TES lore how it was built over several decades is a factor they shouldn't ruin. It would be a waste. And it is of importance for a lot of their fans.

Elsonso

Syldras wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Lore exists to explain what they are doing, not limit what they are doing. I am sure they try to stay within the established Lore, but if that does not work, the Lore can be updated to make it work. Loopholes work best for this and the Lore can be rewritten to cover up the seams. Bethesda owns the IP, so as long as Bethesda is on board with what they are doing, all is good.
For an example relative to current events... think "dragons".

They can, of course. But, while there are inconsistencies every now and then, they should know that TES lore how it was built over several decades is a factor they shouldn't ruin. It would be a waste. And it is of importance for a lot of their fans.

Syldras wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Lore exists to explain what they are doing, not limit what they are doing. I am sure they try to stay within the established Lore, but if that does not work, the Lore can be updated to make it work. Loopholes work best for this and the Lore can be rewritten to cover up the seams. Bethesda owns the IP, so as long as Bethesda is on board with what they are doing, all is good.
For an example relative to current events... think "dragons".

They can, of course. But, while there are inconsistencies every now and then, they should know that TES lore how it was built over several decades is a factor they shouldn't ruin. It would be a waste. And it is of importance for a lot of their fans.

Honestly, if you go back and read the comments at the launch of games like Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, you will find someone who reflects on things much the same as you have here. Each game changes the Lore to build background for what is happening in the current game. Half of the lore of Elder Scrolls is reconned into the lore when the next game is created, and this does not always happen without conflicting with previous Lore.

tohopka_eso

That's why I asked as a curiosity question. I thought I read it somewhere but I wasn't sure. And figured I asked here.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

Honestly, if you go back and read the comments at the launch of games like Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, you will find someone who reflects on things much the same as you have here. Each game changes the Lore to build background for what is happening in the current game. Half of the lore of Elder Scrolls is reconned into the lore when the next game is created, and this does not always happen without conflicting with previous Lore.

As I said, I see a difference between filling gaps or correcting things that have only been told through unreliable authors in lorebooks yet, as well as having aspects changing through the centuries, which is absolutely natural - and throwing lore under the bus altogether. Maybe everyone has a different opinion on what degree still makes sense or what is acceptable and where the line is crossed. I'm fine if they give logical explanations. What I dislike are things that don't make any sense at all, recharacterizations of people or factions within a short period of time, or lore oversights/contradictions within one game (or even one chapter: think of the stupid lore around ToT). If they don't even get lore within ESO right, it seems lazy and makes me wonder about the competence of their writers, plain and simple.

wsmith97ub17_ESO

Finally, a class for me based around my own life goals in the pursuit of knowledge. I have 18 maxed out chars, but I can finally have my main to truly start the game on 6/5/23.

I am taking that week off zos, don't delay the launch please.

Maythor

I'd be another person speaking up, and saying that I'd prefer a total of 21 slots by the end of whatever additions you make.

We have had a Status Quo of the possibility of 3 characters per class (if we wished), for a while now and with 3 factions, and at least 3 roles (despite the armoury station there are certain races that I might prefer to try out on more than 2 characters, without having to constantly pay to flip) .. it would seem to make more sense to have the option of 3 Arcanists.

I'd rather not say anything else, so as to not have my post edited and the information I want seen be removed, thanks!

Billium813

So far, we have only received small descriptions of the 3 skill lines for Arcanist and some brief gameplay snippets. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this and being pessimistic, however I'm slightly worried from some of these descriptions... It feels like Arcanist is more of a "Greenplar", or maybe "Octoplar", and will have lots of overlap with Templar class identity.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63493

If you like to play offense, when wielding the destructive magics of the damage-focused Herald of the Tome skill line, you manipulate arcane energies to bombard your foes with damaging blasts, beams, and more.

Templar uses light energies in beams, Arcanist will be shooting green energy? Hmm.

---

I mean, that's just Squid Jabs, right? I wonder if it'll be the class spamable...

---

Prefer to play a supporting role? With the restorative Curative Runeforms skill line, you can make use of healing runes to keep your party (or yourself) healthy, shield your allies from damage, or even help them navigate the battlefield via portals with the Apocryphal Gate ability, which summons a passage between worlds!

If you like to play defensively and protect your allies, the magic of the Apocryphal Soldier skill line allows you to dominate your foes’ attention, buff yourself or your party’s defensive capabilities, and even conjure an explosive damage shield with Runespite Ward

Using wards and runes for healing and protection... that sounds oddly familiar...

---

Green Cleansing Ritual?

---

Sun Shield? Mobile Rune Focus? Green Living Dark?

Maythor

That second gif is giving me Splatoon vibes.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Syldras wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont see a problem with not using up scroll uppon using. To me its more like a game mechanic than lore.

Well, okay. Same issue as with potions, probably. At least I think no one is swallowing them including their bottle - I hope. Then again, in TES3 Morrowind, raw glass was an alchemy ingredient and could be eaten Dwemer metal too, by the way.

To be fair the Liquid efficiency green champion point slottable does give10% chance to not spend potion/poison on usage😆

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syldras wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont see a problem with not using up scroll uppon using. To me its more like a game mechanic than lore.

Well, okay. Same issue as with potions, probably. At least I think no one is swallowing them including their bottle - I hope. Then again, in TES3 Morrowind, raw glass was an alchemy ingredient and could be eaten Dwemer metal too, by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjXOwUnJzA0

Syldras

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjXOwUnJzA0

I see. I have been doing it wrong all the time.

Wolf_Eye

Elvenheart wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Look, I'm as excited for this class as anyone, it looks AWESOME!
But calling it a "feature" was pretty misleading. A feature is something that existing characters can participate in. This isn't.

Also, any chance you can finally give us class change tokens?!
I desperately want my main to be an Arcanist (from what we've seen, it's everything I always wanted out of Sorcerer but didn't get), but the thought of having to start over makes me want to give up.

I don't think the new class is the feature. Near the end, they mentioned a new infinite dungeon system to be released in an update after the Necrom chapter.

That's not the new feature either. That's just something so they have *something* to sell the Q3 DLC as rather than purely QoL updates which would presumably mostly apply throughout the base game.

The new Q4 feature is, as far as I can tell, still entirely under wraps and no hint of what it is came out in the reveal except that it's a major feature. I've speculated elsewhere what I think it might be, there are certainly some obvious candidates, but ZoS gonna ZoS, I could be completely wrong.

I might be totally wrong too, but it seems in other forum posts and in the Global Reveal it was stated that the most requested feature was the new class, and that the new system announced for later in the year was the endless dungeon with a buddy. Maybe @ZOS_Kevin could clarify?

Yes, I think this is what originally confused me back in my earlier post. There is the new class, which was requested by most, and then a new feature, which is coming much later in the year (endless dungeon). I was getting the two mixed up.

logan68

Syldras wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Tentacles have no place on the fantasy archetype of an Arcanist.

Rename him to "Acolyte of Hermaeus Mora". Done. I agree though that this class is strangely specific. Same goes for the druidlike Warden which doesn't really have a reason to be related to Vvardenfell.

which is why after the expansion it will fade it is way to specific and since they made it healer tank DPS it will play a lot like Neco. I wish they had done spell crafting or just made skill lines.

Syldras

logan68 wrote: »

which is why after the expansion it will fade it is way to specific

I'm sure players who are interested in roleplaying aspects and who care for what their character actually represents in ESO's world will still use it.

Elsonso

Syldras wrote: »

logan68 wrote: »

which is why after the expansion it will fade it is way to specific

I'm sure players who are interested in roleplaying aspects and who care for what their character actually represents in ESO's world will still use it.

My gut instinct on this is that if you gathered up all of the people around the world who fit that description, you wouldn't even need a reservation at a restaurant to hold a party for everyone.

Ok... maybe not that bad... but past conversations around here where "roleplaying" was mentioned have suggested that it is a small group relative to the overall population.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

My gut instinct on this is that if you gathered up all of the people around the world who fit that description, you wouldn't even need a reservation at a restaurant to hold a party for everyone.
Ok... maybe not that bad... but past conversations around here where "roleplaying" was mentioned have suggested that it is a small group relative to the overall population.

I know it's a minority here in the forums, but it's not that the "community creations", "fiction & roleplaying" and "lore" forums (which are probably places where these player types might show up) were completely dead. I also see characters with lore-accurate names and matching outfits basically every time i log in. And somehow I can imagine that, while they don't come to the forums that often, there will be many players who came from the singleplayer TES games and play ESO that way, focussing on exploration and stories and choose their class according to what kind of charater or background story they have in mind.

LukosCreyden

The amount of players who specifically want to roleplay "hermaeus mora cultist tentacle mage" is probably pretty damn low. In fact, I dare say that not many new players will not be looking to the game and chapter for the sake of "look it has a hermaeus mora class!"

Hopefully the class isn't as aesthetically specific as all that, otherwise it'll end up like warden; bizarrely specific aesthetic designed to grab attention with nostalgia but ultimately ending up as lacking in class fantasy and people mostly asking for an animation overhaul.

Shagreth

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The amount of players who specifically want to roleplay "hermaeus mora cultist tentacle mage" is probably pretty damn low. In fact, I dare say that not many new players will not be looking to the game and chapter for the sake of "look it has a hermaeus mora class!"

Hopefully the class isn't as aesthetically specific as all that, otherwise it'll end up like warden; bizarrely specific aesthetic designed to grab attention with nostalgia but ultimately ending up as lacking in class fantasy and people mostly asking for an animation overhaul.

You can't possibly know that. Skyrim had an entire expansion revolving around him, so you're grossly underestimating how many people may want to play & like the theme. Hopefully the class IS aesthetically specific to the full extent. Most people in my guilds are really looking forward to the class and even refer to said prince as "Uncle Herma", tell me the last prince other than him and Sheogorath that have their very own term of endearment. On a more serious note, just because you don't like it and can't think of reasons why anyone could -- doesn't make it the same for everyone.

@ZOS_Kevin Hopefully you guys won't backtrack and will stick to the theme fully.

LukosCreyden

@Shagreth respectfully, your entire argument could be flipped around and turned back at you. Just because Mora has fans, it does not necessarily mean loads.of people want a class specifically themed around him.
Just because some of your guildies like the idea, doesn't mean it will land with the majority at all.
I like Sheogorath, but I wouldn't want a class specifically themed around him.

Personally, for a class, I think things should be more open; not a highly specific theme but something more broad. After all, the class is the template you build a characyer around. For example, if they go all in on the runic magic, that'd be cool, it isn't too much of a jarring theme.
For much more thematic things, like Daedric Princes, a single extra skill line like Psijic would be good.
Imagine that, each Deadric Prince we have significant interaction with having a specific skill line. This way, you could take the template that is your class and add some Daedric flavor, if that makes sense.


At the end of the day, these are all just my personal thoughts, you don't have to agree with them. ZOS is probably mostly done building the class at this point, so regardless of what it is shaping up to be, I HIGHLY doubt they would change anything at this point.

Elvenheart

LukosCreyden wrote: »

@Shagreth respectfully, your entire argument could be flipped around and turned back at you. Just because Mora has fans, it does not necessarily mean loads.of people want a class specifically themed around him.
Just because some of your guildies like the idea, doesn't mean it will land with the majority at all.
I like Sheogorath, but I wouldn't want a class specifically themed around him.

Personally, for a class, I think things should be more open; not a highly specific theme but something more broad. After all, the class is the template you build a characyer around. For example, if they go all in on the runic magic, that'd be cool, it isn't too much of a jarring theme.
For much more thematic things, like Daedric Princes, a single extra skill line like Psijic would be good.
Imagine that, each Deadric Prince we have significant interaction with having a specific skill line. This way, you could take the template that is your class and add some Daedric flavor, if that makes sense.


At the end of the day, these are all just my personal thoughts, you don't have to agree with them. ZOS is probably mostly done building the class at this point, so regardless of what it is shaping up to be, I HIGHLY doubt they would change anything at this point.

Personally, I would absolutely LOVE a class themed around Uncle Sheo! Can we say butterflies? 🦋

Edit: but I have to say I like the idea about a single skill on associated with each daedric prince too 😊