Official Discussion Thread, "Unveiling The New Arcanist Class"

Katheriah

I like books more than enough to want to be a mage walking around with a tome.

nwilliams2107b16_ESO

So, come June we’re going to have a lot of Doctor Strange wannabes running around. Yup including me, cannot wait!

VaranisArano

I'm glad to see the Chapter come out with new feature that changes the dynamic of multiple aspects of the game.

A new class is the sort of feature I'm willing to pay $40 for on pre-order.

Frankly, it's a big improvement over last year's card game which exists as a side activity and where even the forum players who started out the most enthusiastic have turned to posting complaint threads about its opaque scoring system, unbalanced decks, and game mechanics they don't like.

Soarora

Chaos2088 wrote: »

When I saw new class, I was like omg yes!!! Then saw what is was….and disappointed really. Don’t think centring a class around a daedric Prince was a good move. It just feels abit….meh. Not been playing for a while and was hoping this would ignite my passion for the game again. Sadly not.

You know... Templar is centered around Meridia, right? I know it's less obvious from the visuals but it doesn't seem like all of the visuals of Arcanist are blatantly Hermaeus either, just green and wibbly. Dragonknight is also centered around Tsaesci, which isn't a Prince but it is a very specific race. So... this isn't the first class with an exact theme that doesn't fit 99% of the characters using it.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Soarora wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

When I saw new class, I was like omg yes!!! Then saw what is was….and disappointed really. Don’t think centring a class around a daedric Prince was a good move. It just feels abit….meh. Not been playing for a while and was hoping this would ignite my passion for the game again. Sadly not.

You know... Templar is centered around Meridia, right? I know it's less obvious from the visuals but it doesn't seem like all of the visuals of Arcanist are blatantly Hermaeus either, just green and wibbly. Dragonknight is also centered around Tsaesci, which isn't a Prince but it is a very specific race. So... this isn't the first class with an exact theme that doesn't fit 99% of the characters using it.

Templars are more aedra than exclusively Meridia themed. But can be used for aedra worshippers, Meridia, restoration users. It's a class that can be interpreted in many ways, same as the other classes.

There's no such thing for this "Arcanist". It's just Hermaeus Mora and that's it.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Not sure what I find more abhorrent. The nicheness of the class or how they described it like "Anime" or whatever it was. I don't want my very non-anime fantasy mmorpg class to be described like that.

Sealish

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Not sure what I find more abhorrent. The nicheness of the class or how they described it like "Anime" or whatever it was. I don't want my very non-anime fantasy mmorpg class to be described like that.

I dunno... Tentacles, Arcane Sigils, Forbidden and Forgotten Magical Power... nope, no anime tropes to be found at all there

In all seriousness though, the game doesn't have an anime aesthetic, theme, or feel. You'll be safe.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Sealish wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Not sure what I find more abhorrent. The nicheness of the class or how they described it like "Anime" or whatever it was. I don't want my very non-anime fantasy mmorpg class to be described like that.

I dunno... Tentacles, Arcane Sigils, Forbidden and Forgotten Magical Power... nope, no anime tropes to be found at all there

In all seriousness though, the game doesn't have an anime aesthetic, theme, or feel. You'll be safe.

That is just common fantasy themes. DnD is filled with them.

And no, the game doesn't have an anime aesethic which is why I found it so weird and slightly off-putting in them using it as a describtion for the class. It does not make me interested in the class, more the opposite.

BretonMage

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Not sure what I find more abhorrent. The nicheness of the class or how they described it like "Anime" or whatever it was. I don't want my very non-anime fantasy mmorpg class to be described like that.

Did they actually describe it as "anime"? That's ominous. TES has always been the antithesis to anime. And even though ESO is brighter and flashier than the SP games, the anime style denotes a simplistic aesthetic that I hope ESO never descends into.

CoolBlast3

BretonMage wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Not sure what I find more abhorrent. The nicheness of the class or how they described it like "Anime" or whatever it was. I don't want my very non-anime fantasy mmorpg class to be described like that.

Did they actually describe it as "anime"? That's ominous. TES has always been the antithesis to anime. And even though ESO is brighter and flashier than the SP games, the anime style denotes a simplistic aesthetic that I hope ESO never descends into.

What they actually said was "we went through a lot of different inspirations and themes for this class, from XYZ (can't remember) to even anime" They were basically just trying to make a point they tried a lot of different stuff out

ZOS_Kevin

To be clear, we didn't describe the tentacles as anime. We listed a ton of things referenced for the Arcanist, like movies and literature. We also mentioned "there's even a handful of anime references". Here is the the time stamp for the quote.

Athan1

The Arcanist is all I ever wanted from ESO, a mage using a book. This is a staple in the RPG genre and I'm glad this is being added. I also love the lore connection to the Apocrypha. It's important for classes to be connected to the world's lore, rather than being whatever looks cool to play as. The idea of the spellbook is neat and I'm keen to see how it works. Looking forward to it!

The only concern I have is the colour theme chosen for this class. It may sound trivial, but I think it's important because it sets a class's identity. The two new classes, Warden and Necromancer, have an almost identical colour palette of aquamarine/green skill effects. Now I see that the Arcanist has almost the same colour theme. Why?

Green is typically associated with nature, either benevolent (plants) or malevolent (toxins, gases). Thematically, this is the exact opposite of the arcane. Colourwise, the arcane is typically depicted with hues of blue or purple. I get that they don't want it to look similar to the Sorcerer (which has the purple theme), but honestly right now the Arcanist looks like a Necromancer with a book, or a nature mage. This really gives the wrong impression about the class. In fact, when I first saw the poster and before reading more details, I immediately thought "oh, they added a new necromancer?".

How about a blue or pure white theme? Pure red would also work (given that the NB skills don't have intense vfx). Or I hope that skills will get some colour variation (e.g. each skill line having a different colour theme).

BretonMage

I think it's green because it derives from Apocrypha:

TaSheen

Eh, green is my favorite color!

Araneae6537

Warden has some skills of similar color, perhaps more blue-green, but necro is definitely cyan blue, not green.

Elvenheart

BretonMage wrote: »

I think it's green because it derives from Apocrypha:

We are the Arcanists. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile.

shadyjane62

Athan1 wrote: »

The Arcanist is all I ever wanted from ESO, a mage using a book. This is a staple in the RPG genre and I'm glad this is being added. I also love the lore connection to the Apocrypha. It's important for classes to be connected to the world's lore, rather than being whatever looks cool to play as. The idea of the spellbook is neat and I'm keen to see how it works. Looking forward to it!

The only concern I have is the colour theme chosen for this class. It may sound trivial, but I think it's important because it sets a class's identity. The two new classes, Warden and Necromancer, have an almost identical colour palette of aquamarine/green skill effects. Now I see that the Arcanist has almost the same colour theme. Why?

Green is typically associated with nature, either benevolent (plants) or malevolent (toxins, gases). Thematically, this is the exact opposite of the arcane. Colourwise, the arcane is typically depicted with hues of blue or purple. I get that they don't want it to look similar to the Sorcerer (which has the purple theme), but honestly right now the Arcanist looks like a Necromancer with a book, or a nature mage. This really gives the wrong impression about the class. In fact, when I first saw the poster and before reading more details, I immediately thought "oh, they added a new necromancer?".

How about a blue or pure white theme? Pure red would also work (given that the NB skills don't have intense vfx). Or I hope that skills will get some colour variation (e.g. each skill line having a different colour theme).

I hate the green they used. Lime green is awful. One of the reasons I declined to buy new chapter. Don't want to look at that sickly green all the time.

ACamaroGuy

Will be be able to use our weapons as usual or is the class supplying their own? Meaning, we still use the 5/5/2 or 5/5/1/1, etc., get theirs buffs and such but the class abilities by pass them and create their own effects?

Yamenstein

Can a dev explain why they decided a new class instead of say Spellcrafting or any other system that allows further player customisation/identity/re-lifting zone content/etc? Even the Q4 announced content - which sounds great btw - still doesn't address a lot of issues players have with this game.

Arcanist looks great - i love H.P Lovecraft - but I guess I was expecting more when it prior to the announcement ZoS was saying that it's something that has been asked for a lot by their community.

I'm looking forward to it but overall it was maybe a 7/10 for a global reveal. Much better than last years High Isle content, but that isn't saying much.

Hopefully some of the existing issues will be addressed in upcoming streams and patch notes (Q3 for example).

When is the next stream for the upcoming dungeon DLC? Was it the 26th or 27th of Jan?

Edit: Also, really curious if you could combo the portals and the tentacles. To get further reach!

Syldras

Athan1 wrote: »

Green is typically associated with nature, either benevolent (plants) or malevolent (toxins, gases).

Or in this case, Apocrypha. Greenish grey colors are even mentioned several times in the Lovecraft novels which have clearly been an inspiration for Hermaeus Mora and his realm.

mdb800

I say this in the most constructive intent: bring books into battle just doesn't belong in ESO and runs counter to the lore of the series; it's more akin to dungeons and dragons or some over-the-top, tongue-and-cheek, stereotypical image of fantasy fans.

I know other games do this too in some years but that is where ESO/ elder scrolls shines; stepping away from stereotype and thinking " if I had supernatural gifts; how would I use them in battle". If you were in tamriel, you would never see anyone playing guitar, playing flutes or reading books to initiate an attack in combat. Also, it feels kinda demeaning as if people who play the game or not smart enough to use what the learn in the world , so they gotta carry a book because of exceptionally poor memorizations and an inability to learn.

Please, please change the animation and art behind those particular moves... It really misses the mark of what makes elder scrolls different from other fantasy.

TaSheen

mdb800 wrote: »

I say this in the most constructive intent: bring books into battle just doesn't belong in ESO and runs counter to the lore of the series; it's more akin to dungeons and dragons or some over-the-top, tongue-and-cheek, stereotypical image of fantasy fans.

I know other games do this too in some years but that is where ESO/ elder scrolls shines; stepping away from stereotype and thinking " if I had supernatural gifts; how would I use them in battle". If you were in tamriel, you would never see anyone playing guitar, playing flutes or reading books to initiate an attack in combat. Also, it feels kinda demeaning as if people who play the game or not smart enough to use what the learn in the world , so they gotta carry a book because of exceptionally poor memorizations and an inability to learn.

Please, please change the animation and art behind those particular moves... It really misses the mark of what makes elder scrolls different from other fantasy.

Oh, heck no! I've been waiting for one hand and rune or tome forever in ESO. This is great, thank the devs!

The_Titan_Tim

Tentacles have no place on the fantasy archetype of an Arcanist.

Chapter themed classes have always been a problem… people are still unhappy with the Vvardenfell themed abilities that Warden’s have. It doesn’t synergize well with roleplaying because people eventually leave the chapter, or have no interest in it.

Binding all Arcanists to Hermaeus Mora by forcing his tentacles into a skill line will restrict people. It needs to be more generic and you have an entire list of spells from prior games to pull from to make it work…

We’re not getting Spellcrafting (the real ‘most requested feature,’) so it shouldn’t be too hard to find replacements that are roleplay friendly.

Syldras

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Tentacles have no place on the fantasy archetype of an Arcanist.

Rename him to "Acolyte of Hermaeus Mora". Done. I agree though that this class is strangely specific. Same goes for the druidlike Warden which doesn't really have a reason to be related to Vvardenfell.

Elvenheart

Syldras wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Tentacles have no place on the fantasy archetype of an Arcanist.

Same goes for the druidlike Warden which doesn't really have a reason to be related to Vvardenfell.

I’ve always thought this 🌳

mdb800

TaSheen wrote: »

mdb800 wrote: »

I say this in the most constructive intent: bring books into battle just doesn't belong in ESO and runs counter to the lore of the series; it's more akin to dungeons and dragons or some over-the-top, tongue-and-cheek, stereotypical image of fantasy fans.

I know other games do this too in some years but that is where ESO/ elder scrolls shines; stepping away from stereotype and thinking " if I had supernatural gifts; how would I use them in battle". If you were in tamriel, you would never see anyone playing guitar, playing flutes or reading books to initiate an attack in combat. Also, it feels kinda demeaning as if people who play the game or not smart enough to use what the learn in the world , so they gotta carry a book because of exceptionally poor memorizations and an inability to learn.

Please, please change the animation and art behind those particular moves... It really misses the mark of what makes elder scrolls different from other fantasy.

Oh, heck no! I've been waiting for one hand and rune or tome forever in ESO. This is great, thank the devs!

Why would you look for that in elder scrolls though? To each their own but that is like introducing a six shooting bullet revolver in star wars or aliens in lord of the rings.

Back when Morrowind and oblivion was released, the PR with Bethesda actually mad it extremely clear that elder scrolls is not that type of fantasy game series, with carrying books into combat or singing songs while a clanfear tries to chew on you. Elder scrolls has a very established history at thumbing it's nose at that sort of thing.

peacenote

I am looking forward to the new class, ty! Looks fun. I have loved every single new class so far and I will greatly enjoy getting two new slots and leveling alts to learn the class. (If I could just get map tracking fixed and the ability to re-pursue group content achievements as a log, it would be the perfect addition!) Also glad to see the next companions are dudes and one will be pretty quiet.

I have a small concern about what "with a buddy" means with regards to the endless dungeon teaser and I wish you had just said a tiny bit more. I love group content, which is what dungeons are, and I hope a buddy means either a companion or a real player. Or up to four players but everyone can bring a companion (like maybe it is a little harder than a regular dungeon as you work through it.) Losing group content (more actual dungeons that I can solo or play with up to three friends) out to solo content only would be a bummer. That to me wouldn't be a dungeon but an endless solo arena. I would be much more excited if it could be confirmed that the new dungeon feature is dungeon-y in that we can play it with friends.

Syldras

mdb800 wrote: »

Back when Morrowind and oblivion was released, the PR with Bethesda actually mad it extremely clear that elder scrolls is not that type of fantasy game series, with carrying books into combat or singing songs while a clanfear tries to chew on you.

In a way we did have something like that though. Remember the spell scrolls, for example in Morrowind? They had sometimes extensive texts written on them. I always assumed that logically, to use them the character would read the incantations out loud.

IronWooshu

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

I don't think the new class is the feature. Near the end, they mentioned a new infinite dungeon system to be released in an update after the Necrom chapter.

Going to push back on this a bit. The amount of work and balancing that it takes to make a new class, it is absolutely a new feature that changes the dynamic of multiple aspects of the game.

The infinite dungeon is also a new feature that we're excited to get to later this year, but we should not discount a new class. It's a ton of work to get as feature like a new class online, and the team is excited to be able to fulfill this request.

You guys do put a ton of work in and I'm sure every player thanks you. I thank you for the countless years you guys have given me in this game even tho I have not played in over a year, logging in for the first time a few days ago because I was excited about ESO future talk from the Studio's Director so looking forward to the reveal stream today I was more disappointed then excited not because of the area but because of the new class. I'm not trying to sound ungrateful but all the work that you guys put into those skill lines, why couldn't they have been universal like the Psijic Skill line? Instead of gate keeping a new system behind a new class why not make the new system multiple skill lines that can fit all existing classes? Essentially that is pretty much a new class because you are taking the old classes and injecting new life into them. That would make 5 new classes rather than just 1. I honestly fear for the other classes especially my DK because you probably overloaded the kit for the Arcanist by taking away buffs from the old classes to now make the Arcanist bring a unique buff to groups. Not to mention you know exactly what a new class needs to survive in PVP/PVE that the original classes look even more dated as they did when the Warden was released and then when the Necromancer was released. All I am saying, that hard work you guys do, if you just gave the original classes new skill lines + passives could bring the original classes into this century on par with these new classes. Essentially injecting a new system into the game without watering down the game with another class that does everything well.

mdb800

Syldras wrote: »

mdb800 wrote: »

Back when Morrowind and oblivion was released, the PR with Bethesda actually mad it extremely clear that elder scrolls is not that type of fantasy game series, with carrying books into combat or singing songs while a clanfear tries to chew on you.

In a way we did have something like that though. Remember the spell scrolls, for example in Morrowind? They had sometimes extensive texts written on them. I always assumed that logically, to use them the character would read the incantations out loud.

Sorta they were single use or had limited charges. They operated more like runes. They were spells already imbued into the scroll by a different arcanist or mystic when already poured it heir Magicka into it. Think of someone saving a spell they cast into a CO2 canister. Once you use it, it's done. Like soul gems but instead of raw power, it is a specific spell. It wasn't as if the user had to open it and read certain lines to receive instructions on how to use that and forget said directions after it is read. Incantations imbued with power are a thing in elder scrolls but reading books in the middle of battle is not. Alot of NPC characters in morrowind discuss this and if I recall Skyrim has a scroll meant to darken the sky too but you end up imbuing the spell into a bow.

Also the whole "wizards reading from books while in battle" used to be a trope used to make jabs at "fantasy writers" as a form of mockery. Because characters did cast spells from scrolls , in stories and fiction written by novice writers, dnd players to learn them, kind of how some martial arts have scrolls demonstrating said moves are performed; the scroll doesn't get up and do the martial arts moves for you.