Official Discussion Thread, "Unveiling The New Arcanist Class"

CardinalJack

Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about this class. The Nord in me loves the idea of rune-based magic but on the other hand, Herma Mora.... Not too comfortable with the idea of playing a class that sold its soul to the Demon of Knowledge for the ability to turn parts of one's body into tentacles.

If I do end up making one, it will be similar to what I did with Necromancer. Leveled it up, gave it some gear and put it away. Only dragging it out during events where I can use it to turn in daily crafting writs in for event coffers.

Still salty about all my Skyrim characters ending up as his slaves in the DB dlc...

Grandsheba

Stefirex wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Look, I'm as excited for this class as anyone, it looks AWESOME!
But calling it a "feature" was pretty misleading. A feature is something that existing characters can participate in. This isn't.

Also, any chance you can finally give us class change tokens?!
I desperately want my main to be an Arcanist (from what we've seen, it's everything I always wanted out of Sorcerer but didn't get), but the thought of having to start over makes me want to give up.

When you can get from 1 to 50 in a day and collect all the skyshards in a week and Champion points are shared. Making a new character isn't as rough as it used to be. You're getting a new character slot too, so Bob's your uncle!

Yeah but the vast majority doesn't want todo that, especially not forced. This is an rpg and most people want to play as such with the option to continue with their current character.

If you choose to spend a week or a day doing a regrind that's up to you. Some of us don't have that time to spend redoing tutorials and new character grinds nor want to for a 7th time. The ability to explore a new skill line as the arcanist with all 3 skill lines will bring something new for all players, including those that choose to start over and those thst choose to continue from their current character.

It also makes use for the armory system to have more use.

Grandsheba

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official discussion thread for, "2023 Global Reveal- Unveiling The New Arcanist Class"

"Learn more about ESO’s new Arcanist class, just announced as part of the 2023 ESO Global Reveal!"

Sound off below and let us know what you think of the new class!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/626257/arcanist-new-class-vs-new-skill-line/p1

So far this poll is in favor of having the class Arcanist released as 3 skills under the same name "Arcanist"

This offers a choice similar to Skyrim dragonborn dlc and previous TES games of role play and build freedom. Summerset was one of the best-received expansions, as we got a new skill line that offered players the option to start over or continue and expand their current adventure with their current character.

I, like many others, am personally tired of starting over and doing a tutorial again. Especially for a 7th time and most likely won't spend money on the new story if it's not inclusive to use older players. If this class was changed to a skill line similar to the psijic, fighters guild, vampire, werewolf, mages guild, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, and etc. then I'd buy the DLC/pre-order in a heartbeat.

This change wouldn't take away from nor undermine the idea or desire for a new class, as the new class option is still available. Players can still start a new character in these zones and explore the skill lines if they choose. On the other hand build diversity and the use of the armory system becomes more relevant with the ability to play as a deadirc priest or a Miraak-like dragon knight and etc.

Bring back the freedom of the RPG that kept The Elder scrolls games popular up to this point.

Treeshka

Should have been a few skill lines that can be acquired through playing the story and side quests within the zone instead of a new class. This way it would be much more engaging instead of just starting from literally zero as character.

Jammy420

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Cannot remember if I posted in here already or not lol. But here goes:

The new class looks great and the combo system sounds fantastic. Definitely a worthwhile addition.
However.
I have to echo the sentiment that without the ability to change classes, this cool new addition is something that many will have to miss out on.
A lot of people are attached to their characters and the amount of progress they've made with questing and skill lines. So much so, that they will be unwilling to start afresh for a new class, despite being interested in it.
As such, I believe that either focusing on independent skill lines that everyone can use, or introducing the ability to change class, would be ideal. This way, people won't miss out on the big new feature of the year.

I hope a class change feature can be acknowledged and considered for the near future.

Exactly, I am completely unwilling to redo years of work simply to get a new class. It is completely unreasonable of the devs to expect this.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Tentacles have no place on the fantasy archetype of an Arcanist.

Rename him to "Acolyte of Hermaeus Mora". Done. I agree though that this class is strangely specific. Same goes for the druidlike Warden which doesn't really have a reason to be related to Vvardenfell.

The name Acolyte instead of Arcanist for the class is a lot more fitting. Kind of cool actually.


Fundamentally I still have an issue with a class--something inherently restrictive--being centered around something super specific, making it even more restrictive without some serious headcanoning going on.

I know a new class was a super requested feature. And think I can pretty safely assume a new class would attract more attention marketing-wise than a new skill line. But the Arcanist class IMO would have made a much better skill line.

The visuals look beautiful from what I've seen. I don't have any issue with how the class has been done, except for the fact that it is a class.

The concept of going to a new land, getting acquainted with a daedric prince and learning their secrets slowly, getting a glimpse into their powers, etc, and having that manifest as unlocking a skill line for that character is just perfect (for what I'm understanding that is to come).

To me, what the Arcanist is doesn't make sense as a class. Its concept is just perfect for a skill line.



And actually, the more I think about it, they could've even done two skill lines: one Mora focused, and one more generic that could be a one hand rune weapon skill line, since it looks like a lot of the animations could work for something like that especially with some color changes.

The arcanist would make far more money if people were actually heard when it comes to the class change token. TONS of people are going to be unwilling to touch the class now, and in the future when its a stand alone dlc. I know I am not touching it with a ten foot pole unless there is a class change token. And I have been supporting this game since beta.

Jammy420

Stefirex wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Look, I'm as excited for this class as anyone, it looks AWESOME!
But calling it a "feature" was pretty misleading. A feature is something that existing characters can participate in. This isn't.

Also, any chance you can finally give us class change tokens?!
I desperately want my main to be an Arcanist (from what we've seen, it's everything I always wanted out of Sorcerer but didn't get), but the thought of having to start over makes me want to give up.

When you can get from 1 to 50 in a day and collect all the skyshards in a week and Champion points are shared. Making a new character isn't as rough as it used to be. You're getting a new character slot too, so Bob's your uncle!

Do you not understand people when they say they are emotionally attached to characters? And grinding through ALL content again, in order to get where we are at with our characters is extremely tedious. Not everyone uses their characters like seasonal fashion.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Stefirex wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Look, I'm as excited for this class as anyone, it looks AWESOME!
But calling it a "feature" was pretty misleading. A feature is something that existing characters can participate in. This isn't.

Also, any chance you can finally give us class change tokens?!
I desperately want my main to be an Arcanist (from what we've seen, it's everything I always wanted out of Sorcerer but didn't get), but the thought of having to start over makes me want to give up.

When you can get from 1 to 50 in a day and collect all the skyshards in a week and Champion points are shared. Making a new character isn't as rough as it used to be. You're getting a new character slot too, so Bob's your uncle!

Not everyone can do that. Sure, when I had time it was pretty easy but now? I have maybe 2 days a week I can sit down and play. So this new class, while highly interesting, does not appeal to me because it would take me so long to level it and forget putting it as my main… no way.

Exactly, people posting its no big deal, dont realise most people have a life outside of this game, and it is absurdly unreasonalbe to expect us to drop our characters we spent A TON of time on, for a new class.

MreeBiPolar

Ooook, now while this is definitely not the mother of all misleading ads, it is most certainly a contender...

phantasmalD

mdb800 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

mdb800 wrote: »

I say this in the most constructive intent: bring books into battle just doesn't belong in ESO and runs counter to the lore of the series; it's more akin to dungeons and dragons or some over-the-top, tongue-and-cheek, stereotypical image of fantasy fans.

I know other games do this too in some years but that is where ESO/ elder scrolls shines; stepping away from stereotype and thinking " if I had supernatural gifts; how would I use them in battle". If you were in tamriel, you would never see anyone playing guitar, playing flutes or reading books to initiate an attack in combat. Also, it feels kinda demeaning as if people who play the game or not smart enough to use what the learn in the world , so they gotta carry a book because of exceptionally poor memorizations and an inability to learn.

Please, please change the animation and art behind those particular moves... It really misses the mark of what makes elder scrolls different from other fantasy.

Oh, heck no! I've been waiting for one hand and rune or tome forever in ESO. This is great, thank the devs!

Why would you look for that in elder scrolls though? To each their own but that is like introducing a six shooting bullet revolver in star wars or aliens in lord of the rings.

Back when Morrowind and oblivion was released, the PR with Bethesda actually mad it extremely clear that elder scrolls is not that type of fantasy game series, with carrying books into combat or singing songs while a clanfear tries to chew on you. Elder scrolls has a very established history at thumbing it's nose at that sort of thing.

Citation needed.

Books have always been a central part of magic in TES. Arena and Daggerfall for example both played it very straight by naming your list of spells the 'Spellbook'.
Later games also preserved the connection between mages and books. The Mages Guild has always been THE knowledge guild. The one place that keeps massive libraries to preserve and categorize all things magic and Nirn related.
Oblivion and Skyrim also had a bunch of spell tomes that taught you spells upon reading it.

And even if the list of spells wasn't officially called a 'book', the gameplay was still identical to the old D&D roots. You select a spell from a list of known effects and ready it for casting. Not calling your list of spells a book is just semantics.

mdb800 wrote: »

Also, it feels kinda demeaning as if people who play the game or not smart enough to use what the learn in the world , so they gotta carry a book because of exceptionally poor memorizations and an inability to learn.

It's elitist to imply that the only way you can be a mage is if you can perfectly memorize every single word you've ever read.

MreeBiPolar

phantasmalD wrote: »

mdb800 wrote: »

Also, it feels kinda demeaning as if people who play the game or not smart enough to use what the learn in the world , so they gotta carry a book because of exceptionally poor memorizations and an inability to learn.

It's elitist to imply that the only way you can be a mage is if you can perfectly memorize every single word you've ever read.

Well, /technically/, in ESO, when you complete the Mages Guild quest line, you get /exactly/ that, Eidetic Memory

(Which has been bugged like hell ever since though)

phantasmalD

Lmao, I guess that's true.

Akasha_Mei

Probably another with the fate, if Dps, to wear the meta uniform "Rele, PoN, Zaans, Kjalnars"... Spellcaster turning mellee gear in meta... " I'm really thinking in call meta endgame... Lol

Soraka

I'm excited to try it!

Nord_Raseri

Probably already said. Would it not have been better, instead of a class, made herma-squid tentacle skill line and rune-blade weapon + skill ine? Ten times (20 characters vs 2) more useful.

duagloth

Having too grind a new class up all over again is a sad attempt at trying to turn old content into new. 😆

RaddlemanNumber7

What's new with this class? All I'm seeing is graphics and the portal spell. The rest of it looks like a rehash of all the damage/resistance, major/minor this and that which we already have.

Elsonso

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

What's new with class? All I'm seeing is graphics and the portal spell. The rest of it looks like a rehash of all the damage/resistance, major/minor this and that which we already have.

There is only so much they can do with what skills actually do. Mainly, they can change the effects and animation. It is also easier to balance with the other classes if they aren't off in the weeds doing something new. This means they will be reusing stuff, just with different cosmetic effects.

anadandy

Everyone saying how it's so easy to just "power level to 50" seems to be forgetting Skill Points. That thing you need to unlock abilities and that come from a limited number of activities that are one offs - zone stories, dungeon quests, public dungeon group event, AW ranks. That's a hell of a grind of many have done dozens of times already.

Even if you went the crown store route - you can't buy vanilla skill lines, no weapon skills, no passives, no race skills...

The_Graeh

The idea of a new class sours when I think about how many hours or hundreds of dollars it takes to level up a new toon. Mages guild, psijic, assault, support, undaunted, scrying, excavation... Are all such brutal grinds, but paying thousands of crowns per skill line, plus all the skyshards needed. I'd feel good about eso if you gave us the choice to reclass a character we've already invested hundreds of hours into.

Alliance 3000 crowns
Mages Guild 3000 crowns
Undaunted 3000 crowns
Psijic 3000 crowns
100 skyshards @50 crowns each 5000 crowns

How much does 18,000 crowns cost in the store?? Couple hundred dollars??
The new class seems pointless for me, or a ruthless cash-grab, without a class change token. Running through content I've already done multiple times, skipping all the dialogue, and rushing just to collect skyshards is simply unenjoyable.

Duke_Falcon

To give you my honest and thoughtful impression of the class, I'd need to be able to read the Skill Lines, Skills, and Passives that the Class brings to the table. I don't think those are out so I can't really say to much.

Lore wise I think its fine. I loved playing thee original Morrowind, as well as Oblivion. Skyrim was fine too, but I really loved Oblivion. Alteration, Destruction, Mysticism, Illusion, etc... were all super fun to level and creating spells with them in Morrowind was loads of fun. I had hoped Spell Crafting was going to be a thing, but perhaps it'd just be to OP and break the game by taking away Class identities. Arcanist may be a way to tap into some of that Lore potential.

logan68

its too specific to the DLC like the warden I always feel like only the dark elf should play it.

logan68

phantasmalD wrote: »

> Apocryphal Gate

You took away the ability to travel vertically with chains from Dragonknights years ago due to being "highly exploitable" in PvP.
And now you're essentially making it a selling point of a new class. Booo.

Give back vertical targeting and pulls for Dragonknights. At least outside of Cyrodiil.

Now you know what the future holds for the portal PVPers will whine (its what they do) and then it will be gone and you will be left wondering why you bothered leveling it in the first place. Save yourself the trouble. I know this classes future ill level him to 50 try out the neat feature then park him in a crafting area to craft for eternity.

keshka007

Pretty spiffy trailer. So just how much computer horsepower does it take for that level of graphics? I am looking forward to the day my in game play looks that good.

I_killed_Vivec

Elsonso wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

What's new with class? All I'm seeing is graphics and the portal spell. The rest of it looks like a rehash of all the damage/resistance, major/minor this and that which we already have.

There is only so much they can do with what skills actually do. Mainly, they can change the effects and animation. It is also easier to balance with the other classes if they aren't off in the weeds doing something new. This means they will be reusing stuff, just with different cosmetic effects.

bombard your foes with damaging blasts, beams, and more

Crystal frags, Jesus beam...

Runeblades, which launches lethal projectiles at your foes

DKs can throw stones

healing runes to keep your party (or yourself) healthy, shield your allies from damage

Sounds like a rework of the templar healing skills...

even conjure an explosive damage shield

Undaunted bone shield?

Tentacles?

DKs had better get ready for a nerf to whips and chains to make tentacles look good.

And wardens are going to be upset when they look at their portals...

mdb800

Is there any chance of altering the animations , so it is not a book being brought into battle?

It just leans too far into "anime" genshin impact, final fantasy 14... ( Or even earlier DND) Making household items weapons of magic for comedic purposes and looking at the video, it seems way too far off from what ESO is.

Really, according to lore; the only thinks that can be read, that cause any alterations in reality is the elder scrolls. So really, this is like putting the terminator, Rambo or shaggy in mortal Kombat.
Sure, it may cool to some but it , very much breaks the lore that it shouldn't be taken seriously. Given it's brooding theme, I don't think arcanist would make a good "joke" class. I mean, should there really be magical frying pan skills, flame bending guitars, flying brooms in ESO? Why not borrow from Harry Potter and do horcruxes? How bout introducing holy hand grenades in cyrodil?

Combat in Elder scrolls has always been larger than life to a nuanced degree. Weapons you would find in a medieval battle field with properties altered with imbued magic.


Everything shown about the class seems fine; just change the animation to not include harrypotter-fantasy-anime-dnd 📚 doing the fighting. Make it like it is something from the elder scrolls universe.

I am sure the art talent behind creating the class had good intentions but using books to read in front of monsters is not of elder scrolls. The idea of getting power from the knowledge a book contains though; that is true to elder scrolls, just not the the book being a weapon in the same vein of a sword.

Syldras

mdb800 wrote: »

Everything shown about the class seems fine; just change the animation to not include harrypotter-fantasy-anime-dnd 📚 doing the fighting. Make it like it is something from the elder scrolls universe.

I see it as another aspect in which they wanted to include this year's Lovecraftian theme (his stories have a focus on books, librarians, cultists..., among other things). Not mainly anime or Harry Potter.

Seraphayel

The entire class just doesn’t fit an Elder Scrolls game. Neither visually nor thematically. It’s just way too specific and flashy in the way of relying too much on other RPGs or animes.

Elsonso

Seraphayel wrote: »

The entire class just doesn’t fit an Elder Scrolls game. Neither visually nor thematically. It’s just way too specific and flashy in the way of relying too much on other RPGs or animes.

No, it doesn't really, but then I predict that as ZOS gets more desperate for new blood they will continue to explore non-traditional ideas from other IPs. When players of other IPs see familiar stuff in ESO, they are more likely to jump over here to see what is happening.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Grandsheba wrote: »

I LOATHE new classes, the one of BIGGEST issues in this game is constant restarting on progress. This game has no real evolution just a constant cycle of resets. A new class is not bringing something new its something that we are familiar with, tutorials play and another hard grind back to the 3k cp system..

Herma mora is dope but the way you implemented the deadric prince of fate and knowledge is horrible. No black books? There are an infinite number of black books and they were one of the most Ineresting things in the dragonborn dlc so how did you miss this opportunity.

Lastly stop making new classes and make new skill lines, I feel this new update will be better received if you offered 3 new skill lines that revolves around finding black books and earning the black books through the storyline and other side quest. Allowing both new and vet players to expand in both lore and their builds. This saves spaces and resources as well for not needed a new character slot or the wasted time of logging out to switch gear and ect.

STOP MAKING NEW CLASSES AND MAKE NEW SKILL LINES!! Balance wise this opens up many opportunities to allow for other classes to catch up if they feel under performing as well instead of making yet another class you have to Balance with the previous poorly balanced ones.

You still have time to fix this:
1. Change from new class to 3 new deadirc skill lines.
2. Add black books to the quest that unlock the new skills and morphs making the storyline worth playing.
3. Bring some level of difficulty or vet play for the questline to feel like an immersive threat to be played solo or with guild mates/friends.
4. Pay attention to this thread and your long playing fan base, we don't like to restart over and over so stop doing that and just evolve the game by adding new skill lines and counters to what ever seems over powered, no more nerfs. We want to achive CHIM.

We love to replay stuff, that is part of elderscroll

Grandsheba

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Grandsheba wrote: »

I LOATHE new classes, the one of BIGGEST issues in this game is constant restarting on progress. This game has no real evolution just a constant cycle of resets. A new class is not bringing something new its something that we are familiar with, tutorials play and another hard grind back to the 3k cp system..

Herma mora is dope but the way you implemented the deadric prince of fate and knowledge is horrible. No black books? There are an infinite number of black books and they were one of the most Ineresting things in the dragonborn dlc so how did you miss this opportunity.

Lastly stop making new classes and make new skill lines, I feel this new update will be better received if you offered 3 new skill lines that revolves around finding black books and earning the black books through the storyline and other side quest. Allowing both new and vet players to expand in both lore and their builds. This saves spaces and resources as well for not needed a new character slot or the wasted time of logging out to switch gear and ect.

STOP MAKING NEW CLASSES AND MAKE NEW SKILL LINES!! Balance wise this opens up many opportunities to allow for other classes to catch up if they feel under performing as well instead of making yet another class you have to Balance with the previous poorly balanced ones.

You still have time to fix this:
1. Change from new class to 3 new deadirc skill lines.
2. Add black books to the quest that unlock the new skills and morphs making the storyline worth playing.
3. Bring some level of difficulty or vet play for the questline to feel like an immersive threat to be played solo or with guild mates/friends.
4. Pay attention to this thread and your long playing fan base, we don't like to restart over and over so stop doing that and just evolve the game by adding new skill lines and counters to what ever seems over powered, no more nerfs. We want to achive CHIM.

We love to replay stuff, that is part of elderscroll

Part of elderscrolls since Redguard was rpg choice, the abile to craft your character and improve them. The whole point of the game is CHIM, starting over is a choice. But with dlcs you weren't forced to start over for a class or a new ability, you could add it to your current character and continue the story. That is TES, that is progression. If you want to start over thats fine, I've done it too bjt I wasn't forced to.

Making this a skill line adds choice for progression or to start over. Win win for all players.

Caribou77

Please fix PvP at some point.