Dark Convergence Online

jreid01

IronWooshu wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

It's not a PVE set tho, you earn it in PVP therefore PVE doesn't really have a say.

It may drop in PvP but you can buy it from guild traders. I have the entire set and I haven't set foot in PvP for over a year. I run it on my tank and it makes gathering up trash mobs a breeze. I get you don't like the set but that doesn't mean other people can't disagree with you or have a say in what should or shouldn't happen with the set, even if they are PvE players.

Lots of sets that only drop in PvP are used in PvE. Elf Bane and Spell Strategist, for example, were both very popular among PvE DPS for a while. Coward's gear is favored by farmers.

This is the way.

red_emu

Arunei wrote: »

All they need to do to fix DC is make it apply some sort of unique CC buff so people can't be hit by it more than once every X seconds, and fix it pulling people off walls and siege. That's literally it, and then it would be fine. But those two things are fsr the things ZOS seems least inclined to actually address.

Imagine the Warden teleport skill started pulling even one player off the wall. It would be seen as an exploit and fixed immidiately with offending players banned, yet we have this set that can literally gather up 30 people, lift them 10 meters into the air and 5 meters off the edge of the wall and make them all drop right into enemy zerg.

A solution would be simple: make it proc only if the AOE is cast within less distance than the usual ground-wall height.

Arunei

red_emu wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

All they need to do to fix DC is make it apply some sort of unique CC buff so people can't be hit by it more than once every X seconds, and fix it pulling people off walls and siege. That's literally it, and then it would be fine. But those two things are fsr the things ZOS seems least inclined to actually address.

Imagine the Warden teleport skill started pulling even one player off the wall. It would be seen as an exploit and fixed immidiately with offending players banned, yet we have this set that can literally gather up 30 people, lift them 10 meters into the air and 5 meters off the edge of the wall and make them all drop right into enemy zerg.

A solution would be simple: make it proc only if the AOE is cast within less distance than the usual ground-wall height.

What I don't get is the fact that whenever you cast a ground-based AoE on a ledge or some other surface above you it rarely works. It makes sense; ground-based means ground. Yet somehow using ground-based AoE somehow procs an effect that can reach vertically to yank people from walls. That definitely seems like a bug.

And that's another thing too, actually. People say "just dodge roll out of it or block" but if you get pulled off a wall into a group of enemies, you're going to already take a big hit to your health from fall damage. Which just means it's easier to kill you. Dodge rolling and blocking won't do most players much good in that situation. Also, how do you dodge roll or block to avoid it if you get yanked a few times in a row and run out of Stamina?

Mrtoobyy

Yes this set needs to be removed from the game or make it so it "pulls non player enemies".
I mean it is better after they nerfed it but I really don't see how someone can think this set is healthy for the pvp gameplay. I hate it with a passion, I have never tried it nor will I out of spite.

RaikaNA

I love sets like Dark Convergence because it gives a fighting chance against large zergs... Those who are complaining about the sets are most likely a part of the large zerg who use to dominate the map with their ultimate casting groups.

Sets like this give people more options to fight against faction stacking zergs who are responsible for lagging up the server.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZAH6wg-oT0

LostToTheSea

It blows my mind that to this day people are willing to defend anything but the complete removal of this set from the game. The forum community is a fraction of the voice of the community and it shows clearly by the responses seen here. Very few players that actively play or have left due to recent patches would be willing to support a set that destroyed the flow of combat in this game. The pull mechanic alone took all the skill out of fighting vastly outnumbered in favor of having a set do it all for you.

When I started leading a guild in the field, a main purpose was to fight faction stacks/highly outnumbered without heavy RR spam crutch that many other guilds rely on to do so. Though we had to avoid primetime hours in order to make it a bearable reality, there was great reward in the progress of seeing what a few could do vs many without discord comms.

There's a reason many players left the game and guilds disbanded when Dark Convergence/Plaguebreak both released (it wasn't just due to a new game on the horizon). They removed the skill from the game of doing what took real effort, understanding, and synergy. You can slap these sets on any 4 man group and watch the sets do it all for you. All while completely destroying the flow of combat of your opponents and yourselves. In lag it's laughable and a miserable experience for those involved, but even without the lag.. These sets ruined what was great about fighting vastly outnumbered in ESO.

The only proper thing to do is admit the mistake and outright remove DC from PvP. Many of the community have been waiting for months for the developers to do the obvious. You don't nerf something that ruins the flow of combat. You remove it entirely.

AJones43865

RaikaNA wrote: »

I love sets like Dark Convergence because it gives a fighting chance against large zergs... Those who are complaining about the sets are most likely a part of the large zerg who use to dominate the map with their ultimate casting groups.

Sets like this give people more options to fight against faction stacking zergs who are responsible for lagging up the server.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZAH6wg-oT0

Your description of who does and who does not use the Dark Convergence set is a mirror image of what is actually happening. Most people who use Dark Convergence are running in a ball group. It's ball groups and solo wall trolls who use Dark Convergence. Solo players looking for a fair fight don't run Dark Convergence. Only ball groups and Dark Convergence exploiters run the set. (dark convergence exploiters are the people who run around the walls strategically placing their DC proc so it pulls people off their siege and out of the keep)

But, I did like the video you linked. It clearly shows and explains how broken and out of balance the Dark Convergence set is. It's got to go. Just watch the guy in the video and see how he's doing nothing except proc'ing his brainless free ulti over and over again and getting massive kills without even engaging in a fight. Yes, Dark Convergence is absolutely broken in ways that can not be fixed. Just watch the video to see how and why.

Arunei

RaikaNA wrote: »

I love sets like Dark Convergence because it gives a fighting chance against large zergs... Those who are complaining about the sets are most likely a part of the large zerg who use to dominate the map with their ultimate casting groups.

Sets like this give people more options to fight against faction stacking zergs who are responsible for lagging up the server.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZAH6wg-oT0

Except the problem is that the people it was supposed to be used against are the ones using it against everyone else. If you can't see that there's a problem with people getting jerked back and forth between staggered procs of it because of a lack of CC immunity, or the fact that it can hit vertically when it's supposed to proc on ground AoE and also pull you off siege, then that sounds more like you're using it as a carry set.

This doesn't give anyone more options to do anything, when the ones it was introduced to counter are using it to counter everyone else. Also, blaming players for the lag is lazy. It's the servers themselves that are having issues, given how ZOS is claiming they need to rework a bunch of base code to fix PvP (and the fact that every MYM Cyro tends to run smoothly regardless of population or activity, since they clearly do something with the servers to boose performance). Are people just not supposed to play because a group is already at any given location? Also, how exactly are huge groups of people managing to benefit from lag? I see so many claims that "zergs are purposefully causing lag" but wouldn't those zergs be hit by and adversely affected by the same lag they're causing?

shadyjane62

I stopped pvping for as long as DC is in existence. It is an unfair device to go up against.

guarstompemoji

Dark Convergence makes PvP boring.

Ball groups spam it.

Solo-ists keep firing DC without any change in tactics.

It's boring.

It's possible that DC was created as a patch for pre-existing issues. One of those issues is that there is no PvP Director. Although Cyrodil is group PvP, there is no current direction on how to best advertise and utilize that.

The second is the learning curve, which is an overall ESO issue. The number of sets in the game, the different ways that abilities are described, the difficulty in telling what stacks with what, or what doesn't, and so on.

To "fix" DC:
1. Get rid of it.
2. Work on the UI in how abilities are expressed. Condense some sets. Shake off "excess" mechanics that don't do much or are not useful. Focus on learning curve and usability. This can be done while maintaining a satisfying level of complexity.
3. Get a PvP Director.

SteveCampsOut

Faulgor wrote: »

I've never seen anyone use it in PvE. What's the application?

To Chain in masses of mobs to your aoe damage.

IronWooshu wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

It's not a PVE set tho, you earn it in PVP therefore PVE doesn't really have a say.

Actually, we all get to have a say, and you don't get to tell us we don't.

pleximus

Another update on this crap set: I was at Chalman and got pulled down from siege 3 times in a row! IT'S STILL BROKEN!!! Can't put up oils, ballistas or my precious lancers because of it! I hate this set with intense passion!

Xandreia_

In theory the set is amazing but in practice it's not being used as zos hoped it would be. It's being used by lfg zergs to zerg down small-scalers instead of being used by people stopping alliance zergs. Kinda sad tbh
If it was used how zos thought it would have been the set would be fine 🤷‍♀️

HertoginJanneke

IronWooshu wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

It's not a PVE set tho, you earn it in PVP therefore PVE doesn't really have a say.

In that case, let's disable all overland sets for PVP. I dont know if they are used there, but just in case. Also no more vampire and werewolves in PVP because you get it from playing PVE. Therefor it is not a PVP thing, just like crafted and transmuted jewelry. Also from PVE.
Or, because it's all something that's from ESO, meaning every ESO player does have a say. I prefer this.

pleximus

Xandreia_ wrote: »

In theory the set is amazing but in practice it's not being used as zos hoped it would be. It's being used by lfg zergs to zerg down small-scalers instead of being used by people stopping alliance zergs. Kinda sad tbh
If it was used how zos thought it would have been the set would be fine 🤷‍♀️

It needs to be removed from the game if they're not able to fix it - period.

biminirwb17_ESO

There seems to be a lot of low pvp rank players in Cyrodill PC NA GH recently, possibly levelling a pvp character for the upcoming event. With this there has been a huge increase in the number of players flinging caltrops to proc DC as their only attacking move. It is teaching new players bad habits unfortunately.

DC by itself is not much of a problem if you have enough stamina and health but when it is used in combination with other skills it is ridiculous.

The DC, Grave Robber, Necro bash combo with harmony is melting 36k SOLO health players almost instantly. With Vicious Death procs added every player is being pressured to run heavy armor and 30k health to stop being walking bombs.

The days of the skilled player taking on a group solo with pure skill is fast evaporating and its a real shame.

DC was introduced to reduce the size of zergs but it has had the opposite effect, 70+ players from one faction are more common now than before the new sets were introduced.

orgin_stadia

Faulgor wrote: »

I've never seen anyone use it in PvE. What's the application?

I made a new healer and used it in cyro to get the cyro skills up a few levels. After that I didn't bother to get new armour and just use it for fun in dungeons until I get the character up to 50. I pop an on ground healing circle to trigger the set effect and all the mobs get stunned and dragged to the center for quick cleave by the group DDs.

Bat

Maybe something like this could help level the field

Mythic item (no additional purchase besides WS required, all leads found in base game, out of which just 1 is rewarded through either Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds RFtW)

Jaciel Morgen's Amulet of Dark Equilibrium

1 item) Grants immunity to all incoming effects of the fifth bonus of Dark Convergence for you and any ally or team member within a 28 meter radius of you
1 item) Reflects all fifth piece bonus effects of Dark Convergence upon the Dark Convergence wearer and their allies or team members within fifth Dark Convergence bonus radius (reflection is immediate and centered on Dark Convergence wearer)

This mythic item will neither grant immunity to nor reflection of Dark Convergence fifth piece effects if its wearer is equipped with 5 or more pieces of any of the following sets; Dark Convergence, Hrothgar's Chill, or Plaguebreaker

biminirwb17_ESO

Maybe Dark Convergence removes all aoes except its own at the target area and no aoe cant be cast on an area where DC is active. This would stop the absurd aoe stacking that is happening now.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

So I wasn't here for the beginning of the set when apparently it was even worse (everyone had a go)

Instances when I have encountered the set recently (past few months on PC EU):

- A bomber, rarely, but seen
- A duo or trio with harmony (Necro included)
- in situations when defending a fort against 50+ enemies (seen the most here)

I remember the introduction of the 'Harmony' jewellery trait. Many of us wanted to try it and sure it was fun for a while, but it's a very repetitive and rather non involved style of gameplay.
(Buff Buff/Block/Block/Heal/Heal/Synergy/Take a synergy/And you're dead)

I'm going to be a boomer, but this and Dark Con are just 'Bazooka rage' from the early 2000's again. Patches were made in FPS games and a general rule followed where the easy route was swept away.

Mojmir

Relax guys they fixed an audio bug on PTS today 😆 /sarcasm

neferpitou73

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Pretty sure even those using it despise the set but are just using it because it's OP.

peacenote

RaikaNA wrote: »

I love sets like Dark Convergence because it gives a fighting chance against large zergs... Those who are complaining about the sets are most likely a part of the large zerg who use to dominate the map with their ultimate casting groups.

Sets like this give people more options to fight against faction stacking zergs who are responsible for lagging up the server.

This may be a YMMV situation, but I can only use myself as an example to say that this is, at least, not 100% true. I tend to travel solo or duo as a healer helping where I can, and where I see DC is equipped on large zergs coming into the fight, completely disrupting my ability to do anything. I never bothered getting the set because I kind of despise getting the flavor of the month stuff unless required for my raid composition. So, I am not in a zerg, fighting a zerg, and I find the set used by the zergs.

That said, I did a lot of PvP last weekend and found that it was not as prevalent as it had been a month or so ago. Not sure if I was just lucky or people are getting bored with it, but I did manage to get through some fights and battles where it didn't seem to be the only thing my opponents were wearing.

neferpitou73

In my experience it's organized groups who use dark convergence to any appreciable effect. Because they're the only ones who have the coordination to capitalize on stacked enemies. That and the occasional necro bomber. It's just another zerg farming tool.

CmdrJohn86

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Not true.

• Battle Spirit
• Abilities like Negate Magic or Mist Form
• Sets like Bahsei’s Mania or Marksman’s Crest

These all have different effects based on the content you’re in (PvE vs PvP) or if you strike a Player or Non-Player.

I'm sure there are exceptions, as you noted, but in general it is still the case that a PvP nerf also unfairly nerfs PvE as well.

There are many threads on this.

They could disable it within PVP and not PVE as they did with proc sets.

Arunei

CmdrJohn86 wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Not true.

• Battle Spirit
• Abilities like Negate Magic or Mist Form
• Sets like Bahsei’s Mania or Marksman’s Crest

These all have different effects based on the content you’re in (PvE vs PvP) or if you strike a Player or Non-Player.

I'm sure there are exceptions, as you noted, but in general it is still the case that a PvP nerf also unfairly nerfs PvE as well.

There are many threads on this.

They could disable it within PVP and not PVE as they did with proc sets.

I'm pretty sure disabling a set in PvP that's obtained via PvP is about as backwards as the set not giving some sort of unique CC immunity to prevent being juggled by it. It's also overkill considering all ZOS needs to do is give it a "a player can only be pulled by this set once every X seconds" thing and make it apply a unique CC, and fix it pulling from walls and siege. Even just doing the former for now would be a huge improvement while the latter might take a while for them to work out.

Tommy_The_Gun

The thing about DC set & why it is used so much is quite simple. Do you remember those moments when ball groups run inside the tower or they run circles around keep walls or they run through inner / outer doors ? You know why they do it ? Because narrow space like corridors or doors are basically - killing zones.

DC set creates an "on demand" killing zone anywhere you want. You don't even need a full group - even a small scale can do it. One player casts some random AOE and the others dump AOE ultimates on top of DC proc. You Don't need a tower or door or any narrow space, as DC set can stack enemy player for you.

TLDR: It is not about damage, it is about insane CC Dark Convergence set has. Even if you would remove dmg from this set completely - it would still be used way to much as Pull CC does not have much counter-play (as far as I am aware CC immunity skills & potions and roll-dodge does not work against it).

Arunei

Dodge-rolling works, but even Stam characters only have so much Stamina to use before they're out. DC doesn't apply any sort of CC, and thus doesn't give any CC immunity. So yeah, you can have a small group all wearing it to bunch up and stagger their AoE to literally keep pulling others infinitely, because once someone is out of Stamina to dodge or block with, they're screwed.

Thus why they really need to make the set apply some sort of unique CC that prevents it from pulling players more than once every X number of seconds. Not applying actual normal CC is fine, because then it keeps application in PvE for people who want to help group trash without annoying their tank by also CCing everything, and it doesn't make it too OP for PvP.

TheMightyRevan

this thread is about ppl complaining, not being able to zerg in peace

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

this thread is about ppl complaining, not being able to zerg in peace

Put down the Dark Convergence, MightyRevan! ^^
*crowd turns and squints*