Dark Convergence Online

pleximus

This has completely destroyed pvp! Playing on PC NA-server and AD has so many people just spamming it that it covers the entire courtyard and out! DELETE THIS SET FROM THE GAME OR CHANGE THE NAME TO "DARK CONVERGENCE ONLINE"!

I've seldom been this angry while playing this game. This set is just disgusting and ruins everything fun about the game! REMOVE IT! REMOVE IT, REMOVE IT, REMOVE IT!! It was a mistake to introduce it in the first place! REMOVE IT!!

HertoginJanneke

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

proprio.meb16_ESO

Woha mate, relax

I think it's being nerfed (don't know at which extent, you can check for yourself) in u33 now on pts, such update will land on normal servers on March, with next dlc: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596951/pts-patch-notes-v7-3-0

There's also a specific thread on it in pts forum: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/597441/dark-convergence

pleximus

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Faulgor

I've never seen anyone use it in PvE. What's the application?

Idinuse

Yeah, but it is a set in Elder Stamina & Blob Perma CC Online so…

Anfieldkris

Hi, not sure I agree with you OP (but fully appreciate the frustration). I’m on PS EU and whilst not the best pvp’er ever, I pvp quite a lot. If you get a properly coordinated defence using any set (s), probably on mic with someone making the defensive calls, a well organised ball group or whatever, it’s always going to be nasty, especially if the attack is an uncoordinated Zerg.

First few times I walked into dark convergence and got pulled between multiple procs, not good at all. However, given the massive tells on the floor, it’s pretty easy to counter. On my sorc I shield up and streak out, on my blades, just dodge roll away etc. Not sure that dark convergence is any worse or harder than people laying down a bunch of meat bags, cold fires, oils, lancers etc. etc. and covering a courtyard that way.

Biggest issue seems to be players from own alliance charging into gateways or breaches and dying over and over when they are clearly lit up by nasty stuff, rather than making a second breach to split the defence.

Onyx_Werewolf_Gnome

I use it & love it, it is great fun in dungeons

_Zathras_

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Vaoh

_Zathras_ wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Not true.

• Battle Spirit
• Abilities like Negate Magic or Mist Form
• Sets like Bahsei’s Mania or Marksman’s Crest

These all have different effects based on the content you’re in (PvE vs PvP) or if you strike a Player or Non-Player.

Faulgor

HedgehogFeet wrote: »

I use it & love it, it is great fun in dungeons

I'm looking for sets for solo dungeon/arena runs, would you recommend it?

Onyx_Werewolf_Gnome

Faulgor wrote: »

HedgehogFeet wrote: »

I use it & love it, it is great fun in dungeons

I'm looking for sets for solo dungeon/arena runs, would you recommend it?

I don't do arenas, but me Mirri & Dark Convergence in a dungeon have a lovely time. I'm probably the worst person to ask because I don't do arenas. I'm a bit pants although CP1500+.I'd say your best bet is to ask in here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/dungeons-trials-arenas

I'd hate for you to waste gold & discover it is completely meh for your purposes

_Zathras_

Vaoh wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Not true.

• Battle Spirit
• Abilities like Negate Magic or Mist Form
• Sets like Bahsei’s Mania or Marksman’s Crest

These all have different effects based on the content you’re in (PvE vs PvP) or if you strike a Player or Non-Player.

I'm sure there are exceptions, as you noted, but in general it is still the case that a PvP nerf also unfairly nerfs PvE as well.

There are many threads on this.

etchedpixels

Faulgor wrote: »

I've never seen anyone use it in PvE. What's the application?

Stacking trash. On a warden for example you hit the delayed damage skills, DC, and then use titanic cleave. It's way overpowered in PvE as well but great fun.

The U33 changes actually appear to buff it not nerf it, and there's no mention of fixing the actual PvP problems with the set - lag, banding, pulling people off walls exploits etc.

Kalle_Demos

Vaoh wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Not true.

• Battle Spirit
• Abilities like Negate Magic or Mist Form
• Sets like Bahsei’s Mania or Marksman’s Crest

These all have different effects based on the content you’re in (PvE vs PvP) or if you strike a Player or Non-Player.

IIRC, Battle Spirit wasn't used to adjust Mistform. The entire skill was gutted and the player base was screwed over because of the way some players were using it in a single Dungeon. This is the main reason I find this topic so loathsome. The fact that small groups of whiners can effectively ruin fun things across multiple game modes for everyone is absolutely ridiculous.

zacvanm

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

As someone who tanks dungeons, if I see a dps using it, as I often do, I purposely don’t taunt those adds. Pulling things is the tanks job. If you pull it all on you and they agro to you then so be it. Fortunately dungeons are stupid easy and they do fine, but occasionally they get what they deserve. Dark Convergence is a no skill carry set in both PvE and PvP..but especially in PvP.

Vaoh

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Not true.

• Battle Spirit
• Abilities like Negate Magic or Mist Form
• Sets like Bahsei’s Mania or Marksman’s Crest

These all have different effects based on the content you’re in (PvE vs PvP) or if you strike a Player or Non-Player.

I'm sure there are exceptions, as you noted, but in general it is still the case that a PvP nerf also unfairly nerfs PvE as well.

There are many threads on this.

Oh I agree - I’m only saying ZOS is capable of balancing separately but makes the decision not to in most cases.

It’s not possible for PvP and PvE to have the same ruleset while still maintaining good balance. Battle Spirit was a created to acknowledge this issue but like always, they choose the route of rebalancing both sides. Pretty sure no one likes this. In other words it’s not the PvPers vs the PvEers but rather ZOS not doing what either side wants.

Fennwitty

Vaoh wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

_Zathras_ wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

Then ZOS must disable it for pvp. It's destroying everything and everyone but those using it despise that set!

Unfortunately there aren't two rulesets in ESO.

So, what they nuke/nerf/yank in PvP is also done in PvE. Usually this is done to the detriment of PvE players, as whatever was perceived as being OPd (or whatever) in PvP was just fine for the rest of the game.

Not true.

• Battle Spirit
• Abilities like Negate Magic or Mist Form
• Sets like Bahsei’s Mania or Marksman’s Crest

These all have different effects based on the content you’re in (PvE vs PvP) or if you strike a Player or Non-Player.

I'm sure there are exceptions, as you noted, but in general it is still the case that a PvP nerf also unfairly nerfs PvE as well.

There are many threads on this.

Oh I agree - I’m only saying ZOS is capable of balancing separately but makes the decision not to in most cases.

It’s not possible for PvP and PvE to have the same ruleset while still maintaining good balance. Battle Spirit was a created to acknowledge this issue but like always, they choose the route of rebalancing both sides. Pretty sure no one likes this. In other words it’s not the PvPers vs the PvEers but rather ZOS not doing what either side wants.

Yes. Disappointing there are so many explicit exceptions ("This effect does not work on players/does X instead") yet they continue to TRY and keep those exceptions limited even when it would be so much easier to balance if they embraced it.

Sure in some cases you'll end up with effectively two different rules but the same name for the same things -- one in PvP zones and one without.

But you won't have to revisit the same sets over and over (and over) later on to address new balance problems and upset 'the other side' with changes that don't impact their gameplay.

Even without the explicit exceptions at the item/skill level, PLAYERS have to deal with functionally different skills when they change environments due to Battle Spirit or CP/no CP. The Players live with different functioning skills already -- it's not something we wouldn't understand how to manage.

etchedpixels

Fennwitty wrote: »

As someone who tanks dungeons, if I see a dps using it, as I often do, I purposely don’t taunt those adds. Pulling things is the tanks job. If you pull it all on you and they agro to you then so be it. Fortunately dungeons are stupid easy and they do fine, but occasionally they get what they deserve. Dark Convergence is a no skill carry set in both PvE and PvP..but especially in PvP.

As a tank I'm quite happy when people are using DC for trash stacking. It gets the job done fast if it's used right and lets me concentrate on the bosses or any actual dangerous adds. As a DPS I run dc one one toon and given I can hit over 200K dps on trash packs using DC the tank won't have time to taunt the stuff before it dies anyway.

It's also useful in combo with a tank on some content where you proc it with caltrops or an aoe ground heal on the tank.

AJones43865

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

Woha mate, relax

I think it's being nerfed (don't know at which extent, you can check for yourself) in u33 now on pts, such update will land on normal servers on March, with next dlc: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596951/pts-patch-notes-v7-3-0

There's also a specific thread on it in pts forum: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/597441/dark-convergence

Dark Convergence was essentially not nerfed. It still pulls people off siege, off the third floor and through walls and doors. They never fixed Dark Convergence.

The only two ways to fix Dark Convergence is to make it so it only effects NPC's or to remove it from the game.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

I don't enjoy being pulled of forts with the set, no and it's not normal.
On PC EU I could probably name the people hitting the angles to get you down, but we won't go there.
I would consider it an 'exploit' of the set though, yes.

I thought those kind of issues were resolved many years ago in ESO and I don't understand this regression?

AJones43865

Youyouz06 wrote: »

I don't enjoy being pulled of forts with the set, no and it's not normal.
On PC EU I could probably name the people hitting the angles to get you down, but we won't go there.
I would consider it an 'exploit' of the set though, yes.

I thought those kind of issues were resolved many years ago in ESO and I don't understand this regression?

Sadly, regression is exactly the right word for what is happening right now with ESO.

pecheckler

If this is the set that sucks players into the center of a giant black circle proc on ground effects, then yes, it needs needed badly.

It is indeed ruining pvp.

Sluggy

Get it out. It's was a terribly designed set from the very beginning and such a strong indication of poor gameplay design going forward.

And I don't just hate it in PvP. I hate it in PvE too. The only role I've ever played is tank and that set makes me feel 100% completely useless anymore, as if tanks didn't already have basically zero reason to exist in dungeons. At least I could feel good about queuing for a dungeon and know that i could help the team by rounding up enemies with some skillful use of snares, roots, and pulls. Now's it's just a one-button show that the DPS can do while also exterminating the room of all mobs.

I literally haven't played since October because of this crap and I don't intend to come back until it's gone.

drsalvation

We've been asking for class ultimates and new skill trees, but we keep getting dismissed because "it would break balance" and whatnot, and yet we keep getting new OP skills that are cast for us for free by gear sets that keep getting introduced in the game. Dark Convergence should've been a racial ultimate that costs over 250 ult. The base morph would be in its current state, and the other morphs would be the way DC was before nerfed (either 2 pulls, or extended range).
This way, only a few select characters would be able to use it, AND it would only be a single-cast expensive ult that doesn't combine with other stuff like colossus or caltrops.
Yes, other players could team up to gank you that way, but they can still do that now anyway so would it matter?

O_LYKOS

I was in pvp trying this set out yesterday. I don’t play pvp much anymore and swiftly changed my necro back to pve healer. It was fun to play while it lasted tho.

BlossomDead

It doesn't matter you found application for it in PvE. It was introduced to tackle groups in PvP and it is quite frankly sucking the fun out of everything there.

PvE has a wealth of sets to use, you can live without this particular one.

red_emu

The problem is not the set itself but how prone it is to lag.

Ball groups use it only to glitch players into triple break free so they can ulti dump. When it works as intended it's easy to break free and roll but when your character is stuck breaking bree for 5-6 seconds that's a reaaaaaaly long burst window.

MaraxusTheOrc

Im 90% a PvE player who has found DC a fun set for dungeons.

I casually run a BG once every few days, so I defer to those who spend more time PvPing on the broader impact of this set, but…

Please, take it out of the game for the sake of PvP. It’s not worth the utility in PvE if it has such a remarkably detrimental effect on PvP sustainability.

Arunei

All they need to do to fix DC is make it apply some sort of unique CC buff so people can't be hit by it more than once every X seconds, and fix it pulling people off walls and siege. That's literally it, and then it would be fine. But those two things are fsr the things ZOS seems least inclined to actually address.

IronWooshu

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

No. I don't play PVP, and I can see by how it works in PVE that it can by extremely annoying for PVP, but for PVE it's a fun set.

It's not a PVE set tho, you earn it in PVP therefore PVE doesn't really have a say.