Dark Convergence Online

Arunei

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

[edited to remove quote]

Lumenn

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

/Shrug I have a different viewpoint. Some of these ledges on keeps are low enough to toss a basketball up to ya. Why can't I use a grappling hook or a polearm to yank you down? What's the difference . But that's my opinion. I think we limit our creativity and fun due to what some think is "fair"(and it will never be unanimous). In my opinion unfair would be letting one side do things the others can't. If it's accessable to all, go, make chaos and have fun!

[edited to remove quote]

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Lumenn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

/Shrug I have a different viewpoint. Some of these ledges on keeps are low enough to toss a basketball up to ya. Why can't I use a grappling hook or a polearm to yank you down? What's the difference . But that's my opinion. I think we limit our creativity and fun due to what some think is "fair"(and it will never be unanimous). In my opinion unfair would be letting one side do things the others can't. If it's accessable to all, go, make chaos and have fun!

How about because every other time since the dawn of ESO that we have had people being able to break into a keep or pull people out of the keep without taking down the wall, ZOS has stepped in and corrected it because its not an intended mechanic. And even when they couldn't immediately fix something, people have been suspended for exploiting the very same issue.

Every other argument about this set aside, this alone should be enough for an emergency hotfix and if they cant fix it, the set should be disabled until they can.

[edited to remove quote]

Lumenn

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

/Shrug I have a different viewpoint. Some of these ledges on keeps are low enough to toss a basketball up to ya. Why can't I use a grappling hook or a polearm to yank you down? What's the difference . But that's my opinion. I think we limit our creativity and fun due to what some think is "fair"(and it will never be unanimous). In my opinion unfair would be letting one side do things the others can't. If it's accessable to all, go, make chaos and have fun!

How about because every other time since the dawn of ESO that we have had people being able to break into a keep or pull people out of the keep without taking down the wall, ZOS has stepped in and corrected it because its not an intended mechanic. And even when they couldn't immediately fix something, people have been suspended for exploiting the very same issue.

Every other argument about this set aside, this alone should be enough for an emergency hotfix and if they cant fix it, the set should be disabled until they can.

[snip]

But you DID hit the ONLY fact in ANY of the crying for nerfs, opposition of nerfs, arguments for why it should be how any one player wants. It's Zos's game! I'm fairly certain they're aware of alllll the arguments by now. If they want it fixed, they will. If not, they wont. And WHEN they want to change it( and zos being zos, change is the only constant) they will. And it won't have anything to do with my opinion, or yours.

[snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

/Shrug I have a different viewpoint. Some of these ledges on keeps are low enough to toss a basketball up to ya. Why can't I use a grappling hook or a polearm to yank you down? What's the difference . But that's my opinion. I think we limit our creativity and fun due to what some think is "fair"(and it will never be unanimous). In my opinion unfair would be letting one side do things the others can't. If it's accessable to all, go, make chaos and have fun!

How about because every other time since the dawn of ESO that we have had people being able to break into a keep or pull people out of the keep without taking down the wall, ZOS has stepped in and corrected it because its not an intended mechanic. And even when they couldn't immediately fix something, people have been suspended for exploiting the very same issue.

Every other argument about this set aside, this alone should be enough for an emergency hotfix and if they cant fix it, the set should be disabled until they can.

[snip]

But you DID hit the ONLY fact in ANY of the crying for nerfs, opposition of nerfs, arguments for why it should be how any one player wants. It's Zos's game! I'm fairly certain they're aware of alllll the arguments by now. If they want it fixed, they will. If not, they wont. And WHEN they want to change it( and zos being zos, change is the only constant) they will. And it won't have anything to do with my opinion, or yours.

[snip]

[snip] You are certainly entitled to believe whatever you want. I am explaining in clear terms why this particular set should not exist as is. It violates the rules of the game as we the players have known them for years. It's out of line with EVERY other set in the game. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Lumenn

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

/Shrug I have a different viewpoint. Some of these ledges on keeps are low enough to toss a basketball up to ya. Why can't I use a grappling hook or a polearm to yank you down? What's the difference . But that's my opinion. I think we limit our creativity and fun due to what some think is "fair"(and it will never be unanimous). In my opinion unfair would be letting one side do things the others can't. If it's accessable to all, go, make chaos and have fun!

How about because every other time since the dawn of ESO that we have had people being able to break into a keep or pull people out of the keep without taking down the wall, ZOS has stepped in and corrected it because its not an intended mechanic. And even when they couldn't immediately fix something, people have been suspended for exploiting the very same issue.

Every other argument about this set aside, this alone should be enough for an emergency hotfix and if they cant fix it, the set should be disabled until they can.

[snip]

But you DID hit the ONLY fact in ANY of the crying for nerfs, opposition of nerfs, arguments for why it should be how any one player wants. It's Zos's game! I'm fairly certain they're aware of alllll the arguments by now. If they want it fixed, they will. If not, they wont. And WHEN they want to change it( and zos being zos, change is the only constant) they will. And it won't have anything to do with my opinion, or yours.

[snip]

[snip] You are certainly entitled to believe whatever you want. I am explaining in clear terms why this particular set should not exist as is. It violates the rules of the game as we the players have known them for years. It's out of line with EVERY other set in the game. [snip]

[snip] I have said (sigh) and again in my OPINION I don't see anything wrong with these sets. Pulling someone off a wall would be more fun than hitting them with a knife or zapping them (again my OPINION, calm down)Zos will do what zos will do(like making changes that had to do more with jumping/pulling UP an unbroken wall rather than pulling someone off) but in an adult forum you shouldn't get so worked up over a random person's opinion. I hope you have a WONDERFUL day my friend.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Arunei

Lumenn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

/Shrug I have a different viewpoint. Some of these ledges on keeps are low enough to toss a basketball up to ya. Why can't I use a grappling hook or a polearm to yank you down? What's the difference . But that's my opinion. I think we limit our creativity and fun due to what some think is "fair"(and it will never be unanimous). In my opinion unfair would be letting one side do things the others can't. If it's accessable to all, go, make chaos and have fun!

The problem comes from the fact that no Skill is capable of a) pulling at an elevation like DC can, and b) all pull Skills in the game are, afaik, single-target. They also have to be targeted at specific players, whereas DC can be dropped pretty much wherever and yank anyone in that area (and even outside of it, as has been noted oftentimes it will pull you even if you're not in the AoE). Even the lower walls are high enough to cause fall damage, and when people are stacking Colossus ults or a bunch of AoE at one specific point (which is on your head), having that missing health can be huge.

Everyone being able to use it doesn't mean it's not a problem. If everyone is using a single set because it's too overtuned, that's a big red flag that it needs to be scaled back (or fixed, since I'm certain the pulling off walls and siege is a bug). It can also be frustrating. People using it might not enjoy doing it but are because they have no choice if they want to have a chance of winning themselves.

Also the point about not being able to pull people off low ledges is answered by the fact that that's not how pulls or AoE are designed to work in the game. They don't work at elevations above or below you after a certain height even in PvE; if you try to use an AoE on a ledge above you or on the ground way below you, it'll instead just hit the ground as close to the intended target area as it can get without actually reaching it. It might be a coding thing, or it could be another issue. Iirc there was a problem with DK chains years ago doing the same thing, where it could pull through walls and doors and stuff.

At the end of the day everyone will have their own ideas and beliefs on what's fair and balanced, yes. And individually no one is wrong or right, at least most of the time. However, when a large number of people can agree that certain things don't feel fair or aren't balanced, that's when something needs to be looked into.

(I meant to post this hours ago and completely forgot I never did until now x__x.)

[edited to remove quote]

Lumenn

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I honestly wish we'd stop asking for nerfs. That( and my arthritis) is the main reason I left pvp full time. Yes, I know "balance" but who remembers when we used to JOKE about the king of the hill mentality would have us with no class skills, naked, and only light attacks because heavy attacks would be nerfed....well class skills are being homogenized, we still have sets, and heavy attack builds...har har. It's not always pvp I know.and sometimes it's real issues. It's not even always the player base, sometimes zos does things with no explanation (dev notes) but we DO have a tendency to ask zos to nerf a lot of play as you want all on our own. I don't see an issue with these sets. In war you will throw grenades, bombs, poisonous gas, maybe even use grappling hooks to pull people off walls. In ESO we have Magicka to aid our weapons. I'd rather open the floodgates and be creative/combinations than keep limiting ourselves to a few sets.

There is a massive difference between asking for a nerf to every little thing that killed you, and calling out a set when it is grossly out of line. This set should simply not exist in its current state. The pull ignores CC immunity, and it can pull you off keeps. [snip]

[snip] One person's balance isn't the same as another's though, and there have been arguments for all sides(hence your balance isn't the same as mine, or the person next to us) to me, pulling off walls isn't such a bad thing. It might go a bit far so I'll call it a grey area depending on what mood you catch me in. Pulling THROUGH a wall is too far.

My point is it's ALWAYS something for SOMEONE. Wings are too strong, swift is too fast, x class heals too much, armor type is too tanky, x skill is too loaded. If I were a developer I'd probably create these sets just to watch us all burn.

Pulling off walls IS bad though, when it can pull an entire group of people and when no skills can do that. Pulling off walls is bad when a few well-timed DCs can pull an entire group of defenders off of siege and into a waiting group to pick everyone off because of fall damage yeeting a good portion of their health.

/Shrug I have a different viewpoint. Some of these ledges on keeps are low enough to toss a basketball up to ya. Why can't I use a grappling hook or a polearm to yank you down? What's the difference . But that's my opinion. I think we limit our creativity and fun due to what some think is "fair"(and it will never be unanimous). In my opinion unfair would be letting one side do things the others can't. If it's accessable to all, go, make chaos and have fun!

The problem comes from the fact that no Skill is capable of a) pulling at an elevation like DC can, and b) all pull Skills in the game are, afaik, single-target. They also have to be targeted at specific players, whereas DC can be dropped pretty much wherever and yank anyone in that area (and even outside of it, as has been noted oftentimes it will pull you even if you're not in the AoE). Even the lower walls are high enough to cause fall damage, and when people are stacking Colossus ults or a bunch of AoE at one specific point (which is on your head), having that missing health can be huge.

Everyone being able to use it doesn't mean it's not a problem. If everyone is using a single set because it's too overtuned, that's a big red flag that it needs to be scaled back (or fixed, since I'm certain the pulling off walls and siege is a bug). It can also be frustrating. People using it might not enjoy doing it but are because they have no choice if they want to have a chance of winning themselves.

Also the point about not being able to pull people off low ledges is answered by the fact that that's not how pulls or AoE are designed to work in the game. They don't work at elevations above or below you after a certain height even in PvE; if you try to use an AoE on a ledge above you or on the ground way below you, it'll instead just hit the ground as close to the intended target area as it can get without actually reaching it. It might be a coding thing, or it could be another issue. Iirc there was a problem with DK chains years ago doing the same thing, where it could pull through walls and doors and stuff.

At the end of the day everyone will have their own ideas and beliefs on what's fair and balanced, yes. And individually no one is wrong or right, at least most of the time. However, when a large number of people can agree that certain things don't feel fair or aren't balanced, that's when something needs to be looked into.

(I meant to post this hours ago and completely forgot I never did until now x__x.)

That's kind of my whole point. I PERSONALLY don't have an issue with it. I PERSONALLY think it'd be great to incorporate out of the box ideas rather than what's always been done. I myself(and I don't think anyone else who has agreed or hasn't had issues) hasnt said everyone else is wrong and are just ignorant trolls. When someone attacks and wants to drown out the few who actually give a different opinion they just limit their selves (And you have been WONDERFUL in your post. I DO know about the xyz having played a dk way back and mostly a templar now, but your explanation would be most helpful had I not. Civilized discussion is greatly preferred, and you get an awesome for that) however wasn't the chains/leap fix more to do with jumping the walls before a breach rather than pulling anyone down? I know I'm old, and heaven knows I could always be wrong, but I vaguely remember that. But I remember thinking zos could've added scaling ladders(oops, another idea/opinion. How dare I)

I disagree that everyone is using these sets though. I don't. Many I play against don't. Many through the forums have said it's not a huge issue. the only time I personally have died to it has been the Necro combo(harmony can hit pretty hard) Considering my fingers don't work as well as they used to that should say something. Now as a templar and some OTHER sets regarding purge...that's annoying, but still part of the game. Thank you for a polite, civilized, and even helpful response, even if you don't agree with me.

[edited to remove quote]

Silversmith

DC pulls people through doors and off keep walls. This is against what ZOS said is legal. People keep doing it and ZOS hasn't modified DC to stop doing it yet.

DC is brainless and great fun. Four of our guys chain use it now. Doesn't even have to combo kill people because the fact it disables a group for 8 seconds when stacked by four people is busted.

TechMaybeHic

Yeah it has a lot of things that's never been done before and is overloaded with rule breakers just for that fact.

1. It's an AOE pull, which has never been a thing before. It's the largest AOE CC (pulls are hard CC as you lose control of your character)by a huge margin if you compare that to fear, or streak which is at least linear, so DC disrupts more players than anything before it.

2. It's pull does not immediately grant CC immunity which all other pulls do and that causes issues with break free and CC immunity.

3. Since it's pull is to a ground placed AOE rather than to the player; it ignores all elevation and line of site limitations of every other pull causing the pull off walls or through objects.

Its not a matter of balance with nerfs or not. This is completely a matter breaking game function with so many rule breakers they used to make it work. They basically broke at least 3 aspects of the game to have 1 set.

PileggiPileggi

Its the only set that can actually check zerg groups and its the only set that makes necro fun to play in PvP. It needs to stay in the game for that reason. Being pulled by multiple though is probably a bit much, there should be a short cooldown before you can get pulled by DC again, maybe 5 seconds.

9/10 times you can roll out of DC and block in between, it is not a big deal. When I die to it I feel it is preventable.

Right now I am more annoyed by the 35k+ hp DKs who don't die ever then still able to do massive damage, running around in small buildings in groups of 2-3 crosshealing. Think I would rather watch paint dry than fight these people.

Arunei

PileggiPileggi wrote: »

Its the only set that can actually check zerg groups and its the only set that makes necro fun to play in PvP. It needs to stay in the game for that reason. Being pulled by multiple though is probably a bit much, there should be a short cooldown before you can get pulled by DC again, maybe 5 seconds.

9/10 times you can roll out of DC and block in between, it is not a big deal. When I die to it I feel it is preventable.

Right now I am more annoyed by the 35k+ hp DKs who don't die ever then still able to do massive damage, running around in small buildings in groups of 2-3 crosshealing. Think I would rather watch paint dry than fight these people.

It's not the only set that can "check zerg groups", unless they're highly coordinated zergs. Most aren't, though. The number of times I've seen a massive group get burned down by one a quarter of its size is pretty substantial, and I don't even PvP all that often.

Also, keep in mind those same zergs and ball groups this set is supposed to counter are using this set themselves.

And again, you can't "just" dodge roll or block, when you get pulled over and over and still get nuked by the several AoEs and ults being dumped on you (and blocking does no good against all that damage).

EdmondDontes

PileggiPileggi wrote: »

Its the only set that can actually check zerg groups and its the only set that makes necro fun to play in PvP. It needs to stay in the game for that reason. Being pulled by multiple though is probably a bit much, there should be a short cooldown before you can get pulled by DC again, maybe 5 seconds.

9/10 times you can roll out of DC and block in between, it is not a big deal. When I die to it I feel it is preventable.

Right now I am more annoyed by the 35k+ hp DKs who don't die ever then still able to do massive damage, running around in small buildings in groups of 2-3 crosshealing. Think I would rather watch paint dry than fight these people.

Dark Convergence does nothing to stop organized ball groups. And Dark Convergence is definately not the only et that makes necro fun to play. In fact, if you running Dark Convergence on your necro you just trolling with the meta and have no idea how fun necro can be to play.

If a players reason for wanting the set in game is it gives them lots of brainless cheesy kills because that's what's fun for them, that not cool and that is NOT A VALID REASON FOR KEEPING THE SET IN GAME. The plethora of problems with the set and the way it promotes exceedingly toxic play styles ARE valid reasons for removing the set from game.

TechMaybeHic

It's ridiculous during prime time. You don't die to DC right now; but you spend your time avoiding and getting out of it to where that's all you're doing because it covers the entire field because entire zergs are running it, not being countered by it. And it pulls you from well outside where you see the animation, if it bothers to draw at all; because this games position tracking is so finely tuned.

Can't wait until damage scaling is fixed on it. We'll see if the zergs running it still like it when it actually hurts them based on mass.

robpr

I'd say just let it snare and remove the pull. The pull itself is buggy and prone to lags - in Greyhost it often just pulls through block and outside the range.
Ignoring the damage it also removes any resemblance of skill for groups. The ult dumps before required at least some aim and timing, now its just drop it in general place where the black hole is, thus even further empowering "ball groups" the set was designed to be counter against.

I am really sick and tired of sets that punish you for other people's mistakes.

Danse_Mayhem

Ridiculous set. Should never have been a thing.

- Blocking it barely works, and when groups start staggering their procs, the ground AOE prevents seeing the second one go down so it’s impossible to know when to block.

- Pulls people off walls, causing siege to be botched and loss of lancers etc.

- It’s created a meta where every player thinks they are some hot shot bomber by pairing it with VD/PB and spamming ele ring to decimate entire crowds, at max range, without even engaging combat, and without using a single class ability.

- It’s the #1 tool of ball groups and zergs. If you think it works against those players, you haven’t been in pvp enough. The larger group always wins. No matter what set / tactic you use. Dark convergence is just another tool for them to use to decimate small scale play as they snatch you in from miles away to a stack of negates / mines / other AOE.

- Since release I’ve never seen so much hate ever for a set / mechanic / anything by so many players, and have never personally see one thing mess with balance as much as this set.
- Listen to your players ZOS. I get that you have never removed anything before, but you can completely rework this set to something usable. Not a black hole of CC that just makes necros god mode with zero effort.

EdmondDontes

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Ridiculous set. Should never have been a thing.

- Blocking it barely works, and when groups start staggering their procs, the ground AOE prevents seeing the second one go down so it’s impossible to know when to block.

- Pulls people off walls, causing siege to be botched and loss of lancers etc.

- It’s created a meta where every player thinks they are some hot shot bomber by pairing it with VD/PB and spamming ele ring to decimate entire crowds, at max range, without even engaging combat, and without using a single class ability.

- It’s the #1 tool of ball groups and zergs. If you think it works against those players, you haven’t been in pvp enough. The larger group always wins. No matter what set / tactic you use. Dark convergence is just another tool for them to use to decimate small scale play as they snatch you in from miles away to a stack of negates / mines / other AOE.

- Since release I’ve never seen so much hate ever for a set / mechanic / anything by so many players, and have never personally see one thing mess with balance as much as this set.
- Listen to your players ZOS. I get that you have never removed anything before, but you can completely rework this set to something usable. Not a black hole of CC that just makes necros god mode with zero effort.

Between leaving Dark Convergence in game and doing nothing what so ever about the so obviously broken low pop Borking going on it seems like ZOS is trying to make Cyrodiil an unpleasant place to game.

Hand_Bacon

I haven't seen this many superlatives used since the last thread about dying, via an unappreciated manner, in PvP.

I wonder the connection...

ApoAlaia

After having engaged in PvP extensively during Mayhem this is the absolutely dominant set in every engagement, bar none.

It also was the primary reason why I spent the second week in no-proc/no-cp. Shame that the 7-day campaigns were proc/no-CP

Either way I do not understand. Every patch cycle there are a number of instances of 'X has become dominant so nerf', just because of that. Not because is overtuned, not because is game breaking, just because is a set/skill/morph that sees wider adoption than others.

Yet they leave DC untouched patch after patch.

A set that displays behaviours that in the past has led to suspensions and hotfixes, a set that is omnipresent, makes for exhausting and tedious engagements and whose only current hard counter is 'go to a campaign where there is no proc' does not get any kind of revision.

I honestly can't comprehend the reason for the stubborn reluctance to even look into the matter. Fortunately for me, bare the occasional duties as Wall Goblin, I am done with PvP until Summer.

Maybe it will be gone by then, otherwise is more no-proc for me.

PS: For the endless 'you can walk out of it' posts, you can't. Is not one person alone running it and due to Cyro being Cyro where you think you are and where the game thinks you are do not match, and in larger engagements it doesn't come even close. I could be meters away from the visual cue of the AoE and still be pulled in. I could be at the edge of the visual cue of the AoE and still be meters away from clearing it.

LuC1ll3atTh3Wh33L

a bit late to the discussion, i am but my 2 cents still have value....
i absolutely love DC.
i only do pvp quests when the territory is in my favor. i don't kill other players. some would say with that in mind i don't really play pvp. ok. i'm fine with that.
i absolutely love DC.
i don't need it but it greatly adds to my enjoyment when i can complete delves in cyro with relative ease (get the shard, kill the bosses).
i really enjoy rounding all the baddies up in a group, throwing down some DC love and blasting them with lightning...this is fun for me.
i would love zos even more if they could find a way to nerf DC in pvp but leave it alone in pve.
i also accept that in a few months i could be bored with DC and stop using but i'll cross that bridge if i get to it.

Arunei

LuC1ll3atTh3Wh33L wrote: »

a bit late to the discussion, i am but my 2 cents still have value....
i absolutely love DC.
i only do pvp quests when the territory is in my favor. i don't kill other players. some would say with that in mind i don't really play pvp. ok. i'm fine with that.
i absolutely love DC.
i don't need it but it greatly adds to my enjoyment when i can complete delves in cyro with relative ease (get the shard, kill the bosses).
i really enjoy rounding all the baddies up in a group, throwing down some DC love and blasting them with lightning...this is fun for me.
i would love zos even more if they could find a way to nerf DC in pvp but leave it alone in pve.
i also accept that in a few months i could be bored with DC and stop using but i'll cross that bridge if i get to it.

That's the thing. It's fine for PvE, where it doesn't pull other players off walls and siege and through doors and all, nor does it get paired with half a dozen Colossus ults to nuke players within seconds. It doesn't yank players into the AoE despite those players being way out of the AoE's range.

That's why the only things that need to be done to fix it won't really affect PvE. It needs to be fixed so it actually adheres to CC immunity and doesn't ignore it, since as it is now it completely bypasses CC immunity and can pull over and over and over. It also needs to be fixed so that it doesn't vertically pull on a horizontal ground AoE. Those two things would make it healthier in PvP and not have an adverse reaction to PvE.

Just look at Rushing Agony. It's a set that pulls if you use any sort of teleport/leap skill, but the pull doesn't apply CC. The reason you don't see it in PvP to try and ping-pong players is because it relies on a specific melee skill to activate it, and then only pulls enemies in a set radius around the player (10m iirc) rather than anywhere an AoE gets dropped.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

We've closed this thread given its age and given that some information may be out of date. If you wish to continue discussing this topic, there is a more recent thread about this here. Thank you for your understanding.