Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

SerafinaWaterstar

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Why do you hate the "player over character" philosophy so much? Let's say I got a difficult achievement and I want to show it on each of my characters. Why not?

I have no issue with that. If that’s what floats your boat.

I personally have more interest in my different characters, and play them as if they were separate entities; that’s just what I find fun, and what this game has (previously) encouraged.

I DO have an issue with the individual characters’ achievements being obliterated as after 8 years Zos has decided to cack-handedly changed things.

That is why, as like many others, I am asking for OPTIONS - such as two tabs or at least some way to continue tracking.

Parasaurolophus

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

HedgehogFeet wrote: »

Could they not make motifs account wide

This would be VERY nice, but would crater the Motif sales market.

====

Account-wide should really be account-wide as well, not server wide. Or call it what it is.

Do you learn all the motives on all your characters?

Agenericname

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

HedgehogFeet wrote: »

Could they not make motifs account wide

This would be VERY nice, but would crater the Motif sales market.

====

Account-wide should really be account-wide as well, not server wide. Or call it what it is.

Do you learn all the motives on all your characters?

It doesn't have to be all, just more than the main. In which case, yes, I collect motifs on more characters than just my main.

siddique

I think account wide titles of trials and dungeon achievements is the worst change this game has seen in a while. I also know with almost certainty that no matter what anyone says, this change will go through.

It practically kills the gameplay for every endgame raider who felt a sense of accomplishment for getting that GS or PB on an alt account. Or join newer progs to help upcoming players while getting something out of it too.

The vast majority of endgame community will have nothing left to do. Very nice way to kill the game, or at least start the process.

LesserCircle

pamichic wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.

@ZOS_Kevin my question is, for trial specific titles (like Tick-Tock Tormentor), I got it on my templar healer.

The way it was presented is I will be able to log into my Tank or my DPS and use that title???

How could I prove (going forward) that I healed it and not tanked it? Or the other way - what if I said I tanked it when I really healed it? How can someone verify the truth??

This is very upsetting from a trials guild GM perspective to recruit new players.

People can already respec characters and lie - I get that - but account wide??

Can we NOT do titles?? I'm fine with a global achievement thing (I don't really care) but I want to keep my individual achievements on my characters. I worked very hard to learn to heal, tank and DPS content to get the titles on specific characters - now I can just heal it and call it a day? Whats the point of learning a new role if the character already has the title from my previous clear?

Any info is appreciated.

Your templar healer can be a dd or a tank too, so my question would be, how can you proved you got that title as a healer?

Riptide

In my opinion titles should always have been account wide and it is a positive change to make them so. Agree with others who have said it is much more respective of time.

Simply providing for a different aesthetic for the titles earned on that particular character (italics come to mind) would give players their cake and allow them to eat it too, and isn’t at all insurmountable programatically.

Elsonso

Riptide wrote: »

In my opinion titles should always have been account wide and it is a positive change to make them so. Agree with others who have said it is much more respective of time.

In this game, I agree. There is nothing significant about the titles, when viewed from the perspective of the character, because they made it so that the characters could be completely reforged. I may feel differently in other situations. For example, if they had not allowed characters to be radically changed after creation (race, name, sex), then there would be a case for making titles specific to the characters.

I also think that the title should be applied at the account level, not the character level. All characters on the account would display the same title, until the player changes it at the account level. If the account name is not displayed, then the title is not displayed.

Sylvermynx

As long as there's still going to be a way to disable display of titles completely, I don't really care what else they choose to do with it. I don't use titles ever, and I don't want to have to use them going forward.

JKorr

Elsonso wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

In my opinion titles should always have been account wide and it is a positive change to make them so. Agree with others who have said it is much more respective of time.

In this game, I agree. There is nothing significant about the titles, when viewed from the perspective of the character, because they made it so that the characters could be completely reforged. I may feel differently in other situations. For example, if they had not allowed characters to be radically changed after creation (race, name, sex), then there would be a case for making titles specific to the characters.

I also think that the title should be applied at the account level, not the character level. All characters on the account would display the same title, until the player changes it at the account level. If the account name is not displayed, then the title is not displayed.

Divines, I feel old. Maybe its the pen and paper D&D geek coming out, but I am going to hate every title I get from the point of change on. My nightblade assassin should NOT have the "Bestest Healer in Any Dungeon" title. My dragonknight tank in heavy armor with health for days shouldn't have a title "Sneakiest Sneak of all the Sneaks" when her idea of "stealth" is "hit them with the largest hammer you can before they yell". My sorcerer healer will never be able to live up to "Ultimate Dungeon Damage Dealer" because that isn't how I made her character. Do I have the [correct] titles on various characters across my accounts? Yes. Do I think they should be account wide with no way of telling who earned what? No. Yes, I know people don't have time to play, so lump everything together in one large mass and call it good is what they want. Personally, imo, my opinion only, I want at least the option of keeping the title attached to the character that actually earned it. Otherwise why not ask for a default male/female generic fotm, bis equipped character to use in the game? If every character has credit for doing everything, nothing else matters much anyway.

Odovacar

Sylvermynx wrote: »

As long as there's still going to be a way to disable display of titles completely, I don't really care what else they choose to do with it. I don't use titles ever, and I don't want to have to use them going forward.

I have to agree with you. We all make a choice to display or not to display our coveted titles regardless if they're easily obtained or the sweaty trifectas, etc. This goes both ways too.

I usually have a title displayed but I really don't pay attention to them unless, well, I see another fellow master angler

Sylvermynx

I have 4 characters with the Master Angler title (one on each account, both PC megaservers) and I don't ever display that one either.

Odovacar

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I have 4 characters with the Master Angler title (one on each account, both PC megaservers) and I don't ever display that one either.

The fishes know whos boss! No need!

Riptide

Odovacar wrote: »

I usually have a title displayed but I really don't pay attention to them unless, well, I see another fellow master angler

Hehe Master Angler is the only one I really enjoy seeing and wearing. Close second are vMA/vVH.

The latter two prove some level of competence, or in the case of perfect run titles a potential primadonna for trials.

Master Anglers are like Twain’s quotes re cats, to me, which goes “When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade without further introduction.”

When I see a Master Angler I think, there is a soul who I have a good chance of getting along with in a don’t have to fill every quiet moment with smalltalk kind of way

Jaimeh

RisenEclipse wrote: »

And as for solo achievements, such as maelstrom, that also isnt an issue. Because at one point that player got flawless with one of their characters. Which means they know how combat works and know what they are doing. Just because they are on another character they are leveling and playing around with, does not mean they have lost all knowledge or player skill on how to get that achievement. It is a sticky situation when they go on a character that did not earn it, and swear up and down that the build for that character did pull them through Maelstrom when it did not. But that would be really weird for them to do, since they actually got it on another character with a build they know works.

I have FC and Spirit Slayer on all mag/stam class spec combos, and although the more you do it, the more that experience can translate on easier runs down the line, it wasn't a straightfoward experience to get the achievements on all my alts, because I don't play all specs as often/well, and some I exclusively played as healers for eg. I had to learn the class as I went throughout the trial, so to speak.

Likewise, even people who are regulars in end-game trials usually only play a few class/role combos, and there's not very many players who are proficient in everything. You see this in runs with groups who are trying out different roles: even when players are experienced and have done the trial many times on another character/role, it can often turn disastrous if they are trying it from another role/class perspective. In the same way, if I never play magcro as DD, but slap 'Godslayer' on it, it doesn't mean I know how to dps in Sunspire on a magcro. The achievement is just that: you completed the content on a given character (and one could argue, with a given group--because I've seen Godslayers having a hard time with inexperienced groups--and with a given update, because trials mechanics do change/get nerfed over time).

JKorr

Riptide wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

I usually have a title displayed but I really don't pay attention to them unless, well, I see another fellow master angler

Hehe Master Angler is the only one I really enjoy seeing and wearing. Close second are vMA/vVH.

The latter two prove some level of competence, or in the case of perfect run titles a potential primadonna for trials.

Master Anglers are like Twain’s quotes re cats, to me, which goes “When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade without further introduction.”

When I see a Master Angler I think, there is a soul who I have a good chance of getting along with in a don’t have to fill every quiet moment with smalltalk kind of way

Librarian
My favorite title, earned on my main, the first character I ever created at early access. Not going to like it much when the newest "gee, I wonder how this build will work" alt is created and has it..... Yes, yes I am an altaholic and hope we get more character slots someday......

Riptide

JKorr wrote: »

Librarian
My favorite title, earned on my main, the first character I ever created at early access. Not going to like it much when the newest "gee, I wonder how this build will work" alt is created and has it..... Yes, yes I am an altaholic and hope we get more character slots someday......

Hah, agreed for personal reasons. My wife is a librarian in real life and I drug her through getting that one for her main, and it marked the moment I believe where she first really felt like it was her game and her character and started playing on her own.

And if you knew how long I’d dreamed of being able to game with her (married 26 years and this was only 3 years back), well.

There are probably some others I’m forgetting too, but yeah she still wears that one and shes the main reason I still kick around here on the perphery.

Kidgangster101

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

Lolol oh no I didn't get it on my magsorc but I took the time to CLEAR IT on my magplar..... What shall the world do? I feel it burning to the ground as if I can't complete it even though I ALREADY BEAT IT 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

It's a title that was earned..... Does it really matter? It won't change my gameplay at all as THE PLAYER........

Odovacar

Riptide wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

I usually have a title displayed but I really don't pay attention to them unless, well, I see another fellow master angler

Hehe Master Angler is the only one I really enjoy seeing and wearing. Close second are vMA/vVH.

The latter two prove some level of competence, or in the case of perfect run titles a potential primadonna for trials.

Master Anglers are like Twain’s quotes re cats, to me, which goes “When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade without further introduction.”

When I see a Master Angler I think, there is a soul who I have a good chance of getting along with in a don’t have to fill every quiet moment with smalltalk kind of way

Oh, one of the best RP titles of them all! hehe

tohopka_eso

To be honest, majority of the titles I don't even know what there association is with what achievements. I been here since beta and Xbox launch then back to PC.
If I don't actually scroll through each achievement I have no clue what most mean.

Sallymen

Find it funny that out of all the character locked stuff such as motifs, crafting, questing, achievements, and people draw the line at titles. The least performance and gameplay affecting change besides bragging rights lol. I would love to have my unchained clear for all of my characters.

Elsonso

JKorr wrote: »

Divines, I feel old. Maybe its the pen and paper D&D geek coming out, but I am going to hate every title I get from the point of change on. My nightblade assassin should NOT have the "Bestest Healer in Any Dungeon" title. My dragonknight tank in heavy armor with health for days shouldn't have a title "Sneakiest Sneak of all the Sneaks" when her idea of "stealth" is "hit them with the largest hammer you can before they yell". My sorcerer healer will never be able to live up to "Ultimate Dungeon Damage Dealer" because that isn't how I made her character. Do I have the [correct] titles on various characters across my accounts? Yes. Do I think they should be account wide with no way of telling who earned what? No. Yes, I know people don't have time to play, so lump everything together in one large mass and call it good is what they want. Personally, imo, my opinion only, I want at least the option of keeping the title attached to the character that actually earned it. Otherwise why not ask for a default male/female generic fotm, bis equipped character to use in the game? If every character has credit for doing everything, nothing else matters much anyway.

I don't feel old, but I certainly have been around...

My base stand on Titles is simple. If some dungeon master awarded a title to one of my D&D characters, it applied only to that character. It was unthinkable that Suzie the Cleric would inherit the title of Bob the Paladin, now Lord of his own keep. This is because Bob and Suzie were separate entities, even if they both existed in the same game world. Bob was always Bob, and Suzie was always Suzie. Additionally, there was never the expectation that Bob the Paladin, Lord of The Keep, would suddenly become Bridget the Thief, Lord of The Keep, and continue play from where Bob left off.

This is not how ESO works. As of the current PTS, two things become apparent...
1. Characters are becoming more and more like an avatar. A character in a video game is an in-game representation of a person. An avatar, to contrast, is an in-game representation of the player. This is a subtle, but important, difference. Ten characters can represent ten different people, but ten avatars all represent the same person. One Player. This is not a complete transition, and I have no idea how much further ZOS is going to take it.
2. The characters are malleable, and when reforged, there seems to be the expectation that they can resume almost where they left off. All that is necessary is to unlock any skills or morphs, and if this is the second time around the block, not even that.

Both of these make titles cosmetic. The second one has been around for a while, so Update 33 is no big change for me in this respect.

Neither of these are properties of a true RPG, either.

Marcusorion1

Perhaps a player from the PTS or Zos has an answer to this : with the upcoming Mayhem, the Achievement Title "Star-Made Knight" is available for completing a plethora of event related activities - will this achievement also be unlocked account wide ?

Should I try and complete the individual goals on yet another character just to see it as a "waste of time" when the update goes live?

Having the correct and substantive information ahead of time would be very useful and appreciated by many players considering the scope of impact of this proposed change, ty.

JKorr

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

Lolol oh no I didn't get it on my magsorc but I took the time to CLEAR IT on my magplar..... What shall the world do? I feel it burning to the ground as if I can't complete it even though I ALREADY BEAT IT 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

It's a title that was earned..... Does it really matter? It won't change my gameplay at all as THE PLAYER........

So you play all your characters the same? Divines that would be boring.

My main, the Nord dk grandmaster crafter is, if I can borrow from other games for concepts, so light-side paragon she should glow in the dark. She'll never earn the DB or the Thieves's guild titles. My Imperial nightblade is a devout child of Sithis who has no qualms over consigning souls to the void. But she is NOT a thief, and will steal nothing owned. The Breton nightblade is the thief; if anything worth stealing is left in an area it means it is actually part of the wall/floor. Nailed down isn't enough, and everyone's pockets/belt pouches are easy marks. She won't kill when stealing, and will avoid straight up fights if she can. I have a couple of sorcerers, and a templar or two, but those are their own characters, with their own quirks, and I don't play them the same as the others.

I play the game, and its a *role-playing* game, so playing every role the same really makes no sense to me, the player. YMMV, of course. Personal preferences and all.

JKorr

Elsonso wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Divines, I feel old. Maybe its the pen and paper D&D geek coming out, but I am going to hate every title I get from the point of change on. My nightblade assassin should NOT have the "Bestest Healer in Any Dungeon" title. My dragonknight tank in heavy armor with health for days shouldn't have a title "Sneakiest Sneak of all the Sneaks" when her idea of "stealth" is "hit them with the largest hammer you can before they yell". My sorcerer healer will never be able to live up to "Ultimate Dungeon Damage Dealer" because that isn't how I made her character. Do I have the [correct] titles on various characters across my accounts? Yes. Do I think they should be account wide with no way of telling who earned what? No. Yes, I know people don't have time to play, so lump everything together in one large mass and call it good is what they want. Personally, imo, my opinion only, I want at least the option of keeping the title attached to the character that actually earned it. Otherwise why not ask for a default male/female generic fotm, bis equipped character to use in the game? If every character has credit for doing everything, nothing else matters much anyway.

I don't feel old, but I certainly have been around...

My base stand on Titles is simple. If some dungeon master awarded a title to one of my D&D characters, it applied only to that character. It was unthinkable that Suzie the Cleric would inherit the title of Bob the Paladin, now Lord of his own keep. This is because Bob and Suzie were separate entities, even if they both existed in the same game world. Bob was always Bob, and Suzie was always Suzie. Additionally, there was never the expectation that Bob the Paladin, Lord of The Keep, would suddenly become Bridget the Thief, Lord of The Keep, and continue play from where Bob left off.

This is not how ESO works. As of the current PTS, two things become apparent...
1. Characters are becoming more and more like an avatar. A character in a video game is an in-game representation of a person. An avatar, to contrast, is an in-game representation of the player. This is a subtle, but important, difference. Ten characters can represent ten different people, but ten avatars all represent the same person. One Player. This is not a complete transition, and I have no idea how much further ZOS is going to take it.
2. The characters are malleable, and when reforged, there seems to be the expectation that they can resume almost where they left off. All that is necessary is to unlock any skills or morphs, and if this is the second time around the block, not even that.

Both of these make titles cosmetic. The second one has been around for a while, so Update 33 is no big change for me in this respect.

Neither of these are properties of a true RPG, either.

Are the characters changing, or is how the players play the characters changing? Because I would be rather nervous if my characters are somehow representing "me". I mean, while I have fun role-playing my characters, I would fervently hope that the sociopath with anger management issues, amoral mercenary, narcissistic self-centered egoist, lawful chaotic neutral goodish evilish carefully careless cast of characters I've made aren't actually "me". Flights of imagination I have fun playing around with, yes. Actually "me"...Divines I hope not. I really don't want to spend the rest of my life in prison for whacking that annoying person from another office with a warhammer because they've annoyed me *again*. hm... May they find peace at the feet of Sithis... Nope.

Dojohoda

AVA titles should not be included. On the PTS you can apply Grand Overlord to any character if you have it in the list, but there are no stars to go with it and there should not be any since these are earned with AP as are the skill points that go with the ranks. Why include the AVA titles? Trolling might be a little entertaining but it is ridiculous.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

tmbrinks wrote: »

guarstompemoji wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

Brinks, I got hate mail for adding slightly different color to text within a game, once.

The human brain can wire against change.

As a support player, I am loving this. The raid lead wants my warden healer instead of my templar? Great! My necro? Awesome! I don't need to worry about stacking the clears on one character.

For roleplay, this is awesome! I want to earn the Lord or Lady title, then use that on a new character to play an estranged young and bumbling noble? Awesome!

But your good/noble character now has the assassin title.

Your thief character now has the Benefactor title.

It cuts both ways.

Give account-wide overview. You can see that yeah you got GS and GH on your warden, but got TTT and DB on your tempar, but you can show you've gotten all 4 on your account.

Yep, been saying it literally for years. I love the idea of account wide achievements, but individual achievements are also important to a lot of people.

The solution is so freaking obvious. Leave character achievement pages alone. Add a separate account wide page that shows total progress/points for that account. It's a win/win. How could anyone possibly complain about that.

If it were up to me, I would take it one step further and keep titles tied only to the character page. If people stop chasing trifectas on ults, end game is going to struggle to find players. People call them TTT or Godslayer for the reason, its the title people chase, and often they chase on multiple toons. That said, people also chase points, so for people that play alts, the account wide page solves that problem as well.

As usual, ZOS is going nuclear when a little subtlety is called for.

Marcusorion1

Update on my previous post above re: Mayhem achievements - it's being reported back from the PTS that all the characters are showing full completions and achievements for the event although only one of the player's characters has done everything.

With somewhat limited time to play I have tried to complete the event tasks on a different character each year but there really is no incentive to do events on alts to gain the title given if the system stays "as is".

Considering Mayhem is soon upon us it would be great to know what the plan is - before, not during or after.Ty.

The_Boggart

IronWooshu wrote: »

I don't want account wide titles but what your worried about is a non issue, if they got the title that means they've been threw it before and know what they are doing even if they haven't on a new chayracter.

I don't

5

Spiritrush

Unless fully thought through, Account Wide Titles could end up being a poor business decision, particularly as it relates to end-game PVE (which is currently your most loyal, most influential player base).

Unless the new design carefully considers player incentive (e.g. localized retention of individual titles, unique drops, color or icon titles based on how many toons, color or icon-based titles whether a localized title or account wide title, etc.), you are removing or diluting one of the most prominent incentives for end-game PvE replayability - in my view an incentive not to be casually overlooked (which certainly can but often has little to do with immersion). A new player seeking an account-wide end-game achievement is going to be pleased with an end-game title on any toon. An end-game player typically seeks a distinction for accomplishing more, regardless of whether solely for personal satisfaction or for presentation.

Does it involve additional effort to effectively separate the presentation of Achievements from Titles? Yes, but I think well worth it for the long-term health of the game - the pros significantly outweigh the cons across the entire player base.
Ultimately, it's a bell you cannot easily un-ring and should be fully thought through. Please consider carefully. Overall, glad to see ZOS continuing to invest in the future of the game.

FlopsyPrince

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Why do you hate the "player over character" philosophy so much? Let's say I got a difficult achievement and I want to show it on each of my characters. Why not?

For me it's because I'm not playing "checkers", I'm playing "this particular breton templar who did these things" and then I'm playing "this particular argonian who did these things".

I want to retain my characters' individual histories.

If you don't - that's cool for you.

I intensely dislike the loss of individuality for my characters, replayability for the various quests, and the ability to tell which skyshards a particular character has not yet found.

Just dont equip those titles
For the quest im pretty sure its not intended bu we will see in that q&a they are planning

For the skyshard, someone on the accountwide achievement feedback thread found out that the addon to find skyshard is conflcting with the new system as it check the acheivement to work. He deactivated it and magicly he could now see wich was found or not via the acheivement, the zone guide and the in game shyshard map

I can't figure out why people have such concern over the own characters having a title they don't want to use. I can understand (a tiny bit) those who want to grind to earn it again, but not its mere existence. Just don't use it as you note, right?