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Account Wide Titles ruin Titles
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karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »
This! Add something to know if this is account achievement or was done on specific character.
This will be really annoying to filter out if you can not find solid group for some trials.
I did, lets say, vSS on dd, multiple times, I have good understanding of mechanics but as DD. If I would switch to tank, I have no idea what to do, same as healer. And that is the main reason people want to link achievements.
Whats the difference between a MagDK getting a clear swapping to DK tank and joining a VSS? You can do this with a literal click of the button atm. With addons you can basically have a CP ready build in about two clicks <Minus equipping gear!>Edited by karekiz on February 2, 2022 9:40PM0 -
willymancer69✭✭✭Dalsinthus wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »We've already "lost" once they made this decision, as they aren't going to go back on something they announced on stream.
They've gone back on plenty of announced and implemented stuff before (Two person mounts, performance improvements, cross healing, Dark Convergence fixes, etc). It's not a 100% done deal until it makes it to the live servers. Hopefully they will come to their senses and take a closer look at how this affects the player base overall.
Like was mentioned before, all ZOS ever heard was the complaining about "why aren't achievements account based." They never heard from the people who were doing fine with the game as it was originally intended, because there was never an official threat to turn the system upside down, until recently. Now those people are speaking up.
Contrary to this thread, the polls that people like Nefas have conducted suggest that this is a very popular change, with over 60% of respondents fully supportive. Nefas had hundreds of responses over both Twitter and YouTube with nearly identical results.
Frankly I care not a jot what Nefas says.
And 60% not that definitive.
(Am never going to understand the whole streaming thing. Find it deeply tedious. And when have seen some streams, the game is a chaotic mess of AOEs and other effects that just fill the screen with light & colour. How useful is that?! 🤣)
If you actually took the time to looked at these polls, you would see the results were rather definitive:
Twitter: 2.8k respondents
67% supportive
22% mixed feelings
9% opposed
YouTube: 347 respondents
63% supportive
28% mixed feelings
7% opposed
Source:
In other words very different than the sentiments being expressed in this thread. Also not a scientific poll (and neither are forum thread responses).
My point was that it is not fair to say that the majority are opposed to account wide achievements. We simply don’t know but there are signs that the majority actually favor this change. I know that I’m excited for this as are all of the guildmates that I’ve talked with.
I understand you pointed out that this is not a scientific poll, but I do what to take this a step further.
To respond to that poll, you had to have made a Twitter account, follow that person, and then vote. By the way, that same person read through this forum post and similar one on the PTS forum and openly mocked anyone who disagreed with his view on live stream for hours.
In short, those statistics should not be considered at all or part of this conversation.
To someone else's point, some of the most long playing characters are the ones speaking up-- the ones that have subbed for the longest and aren't transient players. It would be more interesting to break it down by groups and their opinions. All groups of people who enjoy ESO should have their opinion heard and represented.
To another forum poster's point, only 25% of people read the patch notes. Less than 5% have signed up for a forum account and would even think to post here. In no way can we have a realistic poll.Edited by willymancer69 on February 2, 2022 9:51PM3 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭willymancer69 wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »We've already "lost" once they made this decision, as they aren't going to go back on something they announced on stream.
They've gone back on plenty of announced and implemented stuff before (Two person mounts, performance improvements, cross healing, Dark Convergence fixes, etc). It's not a 100% done deal until it makes it to the live servers. Hopefully they will come to their senses and take a closer look at how this affects the player base overall.
Like was mentioned before, all ZOS ever heard was the complaining about "why aren't achievements account based." They never heard from the people who were doing fine with the game as it was originally intended, because there was never an official threat to turn the system upside down, until recently. Now those people are speaking up.
Contrary to this thread, the polls that people like Nefas have conducted suggest that this is a very popular change, with over 60% of respondents fully supportive. Nefas had hundreds of responses over both Twitter and YouTube with nearly identical results.
Frankly I care not a jot what Nefas says.
And 60% not that definitive.
(Am never going to understand the whole streaming thing. Find it deeply tedious. And when have seen some streams, the game is a chaotic mess of AOEs and other effects that just fill the screen with light & colour. How useful is that?! 🤣)
If you actually took the time to looked at these polls, you would see the results were rather definitive:
Twitter: 2.8k respondents
67% supportive
22% mixed feelings
9% opposed
YouTube: 347 respondents
63% supportive
28% mixed feelings
7% opposed
Source:
In other words very different than the sentiments being expressed in this thread. Also not a scientific poll (and neither are forum thread responses).
My point was that it is not fair to say that the majority are opposed to account wide achievements. We simply don’t know but there are signs that the majority actually favor this change. I know that I’m excited for this as are all of the guildmates that I’ve talked with.
I understand you pointed out that this is not a scientific poll, but I do what to take this a step further.
To respond to that poll, you had to have made a Twitter account, follow that person, and then vote. By the way, that same person read through this forum post and similar one on the PTS forum and openly mocked anyone who disagreed with his view on live stream for hours.
In short, those statistics should not be considered at all or part of this conversation.
To someone else's point, some of the most long playing characters are the ones speaking up-- the ones that have subbed for the longest and aren't transient players. It would be more interesting to break it down by groups and their opinions. All groups of people who enjoy ESO should have their opinion heard and represented.
To another forum poster's point, only 25% of people read the patch notes. Less than 5% have signed up for a forum account and would even think to post here. In no way can we have a realistic poll.
We can agree to disagree about whether or not this change is a good thing. I do disagree with some of what you're saying here and find other things contradictory, so I've responded below...
"To respond to the poll you have to have made a Twitter account." This is false, or perhaps only partially true. One of those polls is twitter, the other is YouTube. The YouTube poll has thousands of respondents.
Polls here on the forums yielded roughly similar results: 2:1 in favor of the change. Half of those in favor wanted it to go even further. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
"In short, those statistics should not be considered at all or part of this conversation." Hard disagree. None of this is scientific, but it's all useful information to consider. There are thousands of respondents across these polls and their views are all worth hearing and considering. That doesn't mean the results are scientific or need to be taken at 100% face value (as I said in my post). They should be viewed with skepticism. But when multiple lines of evidence point in the same direction, that is worth considering, in my humble opinion. I largely agree with you that "In no way can we have a realistic poll." but that doesn't mean we can't share opinions or look at the evidence that we do have.
"To someone else's point, some of the most long playing characters are the ones speaking up" I've been here since console launch. I've never taken a break longer than two weeks. I have multiple flawless conquerer's, multiple undying songs, multiple master anglers, multiple grand overlords, multiple repeated DLC dungeon trifectas and perfectas, and on and on. Yet I'm highly supportive of this change. My time played doesn't make my views any more or less valuable than other players'.
"All groups of people who enjoy ESO should have their opinion heard and represented." Here we agree. This statement seems to contradict your call to disregard the respondents to the polls cited above. Forum posts, discord, tweets, polls, YouTube videos, etc. are all valid ways people can express their views here.
"By the way, that same person read through this forum post and similar one on the PTS forum and openly mocked anyone who disagreed with his view on live stream for hours." I would really appreciate some evidence for this statement. I listened to his entire (very long) patch notes review where this change was discussed and I didn't hear any mocking of people who disagreed with his view. Regardless, Nefas's views here are 1 person's views. If he has a bad take that doesn't mean the 100s and 1000s who responded to his polls should be ignored. Their views are worth considering, just as are your's, and mine, and everyone else weighing in on this change.
5 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭willymancer69 wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »We've already "lost" once they made this decision, as they aren't going to go back on something they announced on stream.
They've gone back on plenty of announced and implemented stuff before (Two person mounts, performance improvements, cross healing, Dark Convergence fixes, etc). It's not a 100% done deal until it makes it to the live servers. Hopefully they will come to their senses and take a closer look at how this affects the player base overall.
Like was mentioned before, all ZOS ever heard was the complaining about "why aren't achievements account based." They never heard from the people who were doing fine with the game as it was originally intended, because there was never an official threat to turn the system upside down, until recently. Now those people are speaking up.
Contrary to this thread, the polls that people like Nefas have conducted suggest that this is a very popular change, with over 60% of respondents fully supportive. Nefas had hundreds of responses over both Twitter and YouTube with nearly identical results.
Frankly I care not a jot what Nefas says.
And 60% not that definitive.
(Am never going to understand the whole streaming thing. Find it deeply tedious. And when have seen some streams, the game is a chaotic mess of AOEs and other effects that just fill the screen with light & colour. How useful is that?! 🤣)
If you actually took the time to looked at these polls, you would see the results were rather definitive:
Twitter: 2.8k respondents
67% supportive
22% mixed feelings
9% opposed
YouTube: 347 respondents
63% supportive
28% mixed feelings
7% opposed
Source:
In other words very different than the sentiments being expressed in this thread. Also not a scientific poll (and neither are forum thread responses).
My point was that it is not fair to say that the majority are opposed to account wide achievements. We simply don’t know but there are signs that the majority actually favor this change. I know that I’m excited for this as are all of the guildmates that I’ve talked with.
I understand you pointed out that this is not a scientific poll, but I do what to take this a step further.
To respond to that poll, you had to have made a Twitter account, follow that person, and then vote. By the way, that same person read through this forum post and similar one on the PTS forum and openly mocked anyone who disagreed with his view on live stream for hours.
In short, those statistics should not be considered at all or part of this conversation.
To someone else's point, some of the most long playing characters are the ones speaking up-- the ones that have subbed for the longest and aren't transient players. It would be more interesting to break it down by groups and their opinions. All groups of people who enjoy ESO should have their opinion heard and represented.
To another forum poster's point, only 25% of people read the patch notes. Less than 5% have signed up for a forum account and would even think to post here. In no way can we have a realistic poll.
You don't have to follow him to vote in it, you can just have Twitter. There is definitely a sample bias though regardless since most of who saw it would be his followers and he influenced their opinion with his antics. Other polls however are showing similar numbers1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭willymancer69 wrote: »To respond to that poll, you had to have made a Twitter account, follow that person, and then vote. By the way, that same person read through this forum post and similar one on the PTS forum and openly mocked anyone who disagreed with his view on live stream for hours.
In short, those statistics should not be considered at all or part of this conversation.
If we just assume a valid cross-section... The poll shows that only about 2/3rds of the polled people actually like it. The other 1/3rd are mixed or negative on the subject. That is a terribly bad approval number for something like that, to be honest. They aren't voting on what pizza to order. A feature is actually being removed from the game, and only 2/3rds are thumbs up.
I will have to watch the VOD for that, though.1 -
silvereyes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I find these sorts of efforts to mobilize populations of players for or against a feature with an Internet poll unhelpful. The feature is implemented. This isn't a democracy. ZOS is bringing it to live in some incarnation.spartaxoxo wrote: »willymancer69 wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »We've already "lost" once they made this decision, as they aren't going to go back on something they announced on stream.
They've gone back on plenty of announced and implemented stuff before (Two person mounts, performance improvements, cross healing, Dark Convergence fixes, etc). It's not a 100% done deal until it makes it to the live servers. Hopefully they will come to their senses and take a closer look at how this affects the player base overall.
Like was mentioned before, all ZOS ever heard was the complaining about "why aren't achievements account based." They never heard from the people who were doing fine with the game as it was originally intended, because there was never an official threat to turn the system upside down, until recently. Now those people are speaking up.
Contrary to this thread, the polls that people like Nefas have conducted suggest that this is a very popular change, with over 60% of respondents fully supportive. Nefas had hundreds of responses over both Twitter and YouTube with nearly identical results.
Frankly I care not a jot what Nefas says.
And 60% not that definitive.
(Am never going to understand the whole streaming thing. Find it deeply tedious. And when have seen some streams, the game is a chaotic mess of AOEs and other effects that just fill the screen with light & colour. How useful is that?! 🤣)
If you actually took the time to looked at these polls, you would see the results were rather definitive:
Twitter: 2.8k respondents
67% supportive
22% mixed feelings
9% opposed
YouTube: 347 respondents
63% supportive
28% mixed feelings
7% opposed
Source:
In other words very different than the sentiments being expressed in this thread. Also not a scientific poll (and neither are forum thread responses).
My point was that it is not fair to say that the majority are opposed to account wide achievements. We simply don’t know but there are signs that the majority actually favor this change. I know that I’m excited for this as are all of the guildmates that I’ve talked with.
I understand you pointed out that this is not a scientific poll, but I do what to take this a step further.
To respond to that poll, you had to have made a Twitter account, follow that person, and then vote. By the way, that same person read through this forum post and similar one on the PTS forum and openly mocked anyone who disagreed with his view on live stream for hours.
In short, those statistics should not be considered at all or part of this conversation.
To someone else's point, some of the most long playing characters are the ones speaking up-- the ones that have subbed for the longest and aren't transient players. It would be more interesting to break it down by groups and their opinions. All groups of people who enjoy ESO should have their opinion heard and represented.
To another forum poster's point, only 25% of people read the patch notes. Less than 5% have signed up for a forum account and would even think to post here. In no way can we have a realistic poll.
You don't have to follow him to vote in it, you can just have Twitter. There is definitely a sample bias though regardless since most of who saw it would be his followers and he influenced their opinion with his antics. Other polls however are showing similar numbers
What would be far more helpful would be for people to test the actual implementation on PTS and provide individual feedback on specific aspects of the implementation. Try it out on a new character. Try it out on existing main and alt characters. Is it what you were expecting? Is it amazing? Are there aspects that you find buggy or unworkable? Are there things you thought were coming with the feature that were left out? Will it kill some aspect of the game for you?
Go test and chime in https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596970/pts-update-33-feedback-thread-for-account-wide-achievements
I love content creators: they provide great resources for the community. But this is a hugely complicated feature ZOS has implemented, and it can't be boiled down to a 32-character long title. [snip]
[Edited for Baiting]Edited by Psiion on February 3, 2022 1:47AM[PC/NA] @silvereyes | My Addons on ESOUI.com3 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I haven’t seen all these polls but they seem very simplistic about a rather complicated and far-reaching change, and they don’t allow for nuance or discussion as to how this will affect the game.
(And since I live in a country that is suffering through the after-effects of such a poll, I would recommend a more circumspect & considerate approach!)1 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't understand why there can't just be a global achievement score tracker. Does that not do what people want?
Who actually wanted titles shared across characters who didn't do the achievements associated with them?
How is it worthwhile to undermine a considerable part of the game, which has had considerable development effort put into it, to please people who don't engage with that content.
Titles matter in the endgame community, and I would honestly hope for anyone who enjoys the personal satisfaction of achievement. If you wanted Dawnbringer on your sorc you had to earn it, now you just.... don't need to. Why would anyone bother going back into that content. For fun?? You think people enjoy no-deathing the chickens in vHoF?
People progging Godslayer on multiple teams may as well drop down to one and put all their time into that.
Yes this is just a game about collecting pixels and having a good time doing it, and it's filled by people with different motivations and goals; I enjoy many aspects of the game. But this one move is undermining the time spent by highly motivated people and will alienate them from the game. I know many people who already have difficult titles on several toons who are still keen to go in and get it done on others.
Say I've got 18 toons designed for different content, why would I want trial based achievements unlocked on some PvP bosmer stamblade, why would anyone want to roll around in the sewers with a title earned on a necro tank?
I also see a lot of people saying titles are no guarantee of a players ability, and yeah some people can be carried to some titles, but those people get found out, its just that this is going to make it even more of a chore than it was to weed out bad and duplicitous players from disrupting raid teams. I'm disappointed that Zenimax don't see how detrimental this is to the end-game raiding community.
It's yet another indication that they do not care for players who operate outside of the mainstream roleplaying community. If you pursue PvP and veteran content your time and effort is apparently of little concern.
Wrong, RPers don't like this either, we only want titles on characters who went through that content and earned it story-wise. We use the achievement tracker kind of like a character journal since there is no equivalent feature. We are losing out on this just like you. This is not what RPers want.
We just spent several pages discussing RPers and what they want. With respect to the derailing observation above, lets not get into it again, but please refrain from speaking for all RPers, because the RP community at large is looking forward to this pretty hard.
Out of interest, what's the difference between one person generalising about RPers and another person talking about the RP community at large?
The difference is one player making an absolutist statement about 'Us RPers don't want this change' and 'Every single part of the pretty well connected and communicating RP communities known to me and those in contact with me being overwhelmingly positive towards this.'
Heck, many of them see this as the best thing to come with the update or tied with the general notion of more Breton Lore, and while I'm certain some aren't as ecstatic, out of many hundreds, I've seen a grand total of two speak up within said communities - once, and pretty much in the 'Eh, I'd prefer otherwise' department rather than classifying it as a big deal.
Now, could there be less connected small bubbles about that don't like it? Sure. Could they outweigh the rest? Hard doubt, and there's certainly far too many that like this change for some absolute 'RPers don't like this' line.2 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There are differences in opinion, and then there's people just misusing the term 'roleplay' for something it's not. It's a very binary question: Is your character aware of game mechanics, or are they not?
I would have to say that my characters are no more aware of game mechanics than I personally am continuously in contact with whatever is "behind" the reality that I describe as "real life".
That being said, I would dislike being forced to lose individual achievements. I like that I can tell who did what - and is part of how I roleplay any characters in any games, be they pen and paper or on computer.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As long as I can track my achievements per character still. Whatever else doesn't matter. We've already "lost" once they made this decision, as they aren't going to go back on something they announced on stream. I only hope the language used wasn't accurate and we're not losing most individuality on our characters.
Same here!!Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm guessing about half are happy about this change and the other half are devastated by it.
What's the point of doing Maelstrom on different characters now? You'll already have the title on every character after you do it once.
Also, it'll destroy the ability to get additional music boxes by doing the Bards College quest. As of the PTS now you can't do it anymore. It's gone. You can't even do that quest any more if you've already done it once. That's awful for a lot of people. It takes away something I paid for by buying that chapter.
3 -
Kesstryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't understand why there can't just be a global achievement score tracker. Does that not do what people want?
Who actually wanted titles shared across characters who didn't do the achievements associated with them?
How is it worthwhile to undermine a considerable part of the game, which has had considerable development effort put into it, to please people who don't engage with that content.
Titles matter in the endgame community, and I would honestly hope for anyone who enjoys the personal satisfaction of achievement. If you wanted Dawnbringer on your sorc you had to earn it, now you just.... don't need to. Why would anyone bother going back into that content. For fun?? You think people enjoy no-deathing the chickens in vHoF?
People progging Godslayer on multiple teams may as well drop down to one and put all their time into that.
Yes this is just a game about collecting pixels and having a good time doing it, and it's filled by people with different motivations and goals; I enjoy many aspects of the game. But this one move is undermining the time spent by highly motivated people and will alienate them from the game. I know many people who already have difficult titles on several toons who are still keen to go in and get it done on others.
Say I've got 18 toons designed for different content, why would I want trial based achievements unlocked on some PvP bosmer stamblade, why would anyone want to roll around in the sewers with a title earned on a necro tank?
I also see a lot of people saying titles are no guarantee of a players ability, and yeah some people can be carried to some titles, but those people get found out, its just that this is going to make it even more of a chore than it was to weed out bad and duplicitous players from disrupting raid teams. I'm disappointed that Zenimax don't see how detrimental this is to the end-game raiding community.
It's yet another indication that they do not care for players who operate outside of the mainstream roleplaying community. If you pursue PvP and veteran content your time and effort is apparently of little concern.
Wrong, RPers don't like this either, we only want titles on characters who went through that content and earned it story-wise. We use the achievement tracker kind of like a character journal since there is no equivalent feature. We are losing out on this just like you. This is not what RPers want.
We just spent several pages discussing RPers and what they want. With respect to the derailing observation above, lets not get into it again, but please refrain from speaking for all RPers, because the RP community at large is looking forward to this pretty hard.
Out of interest, what's the difference between one person generalising about RPers and another person talking about the RP community at large?
The difference is one player making an absolutist statement about 'Us RPers don't want this change' and 'Every single part of the pretty well connected and communicating RP communities known to me and those in contact with me being overwhelmingly positive towards this.'
Heck, many of them see this as the best thing to come with the update or tied with the general notion of more Breton Lore, and while I'm certain some aren't as ecstatic, out of many hundreds, I've seen a grand total of two speak up within said communities - once, and pretty much in the 'Eh, I'd prefer otherwise' department rather than classifying it as a big deal.
Now, could there be less connected small bubbles about that don't like it? Sure. Could they outweigh the rest? Hard doubt, and there's certainly far too many that like this change for some absolute 'RPers don't like this' line.
I could say the same, I didn't like how RPers are being lumped into the group that does like these changes as I know many who don't. Seriously, you like having your individual character progress wiped out like they're just amalgams of you as the player and not have their own individual records, achievements, and progress tracked? You like having quests locked out of your alts because one of your characters did that quest already and got the achievement? I think if the RP community you run with really saw how this was being implemented on PTS, they would be up in arms over this. I'm not against account wide achievements, I'm happy to let others play the way they want, but I'm not happy about individual character progress and quests being lost over this. I'm not happy that I will have characters that can't do the Bard's Quest in Solitude ever again because one character already got the achievement. Go look at how this has been implemented on PTS and then tell me the RP community is ok with having their individual characters neutered like this.HEARTHLIGHT - A guild for housing enthusiasts! Contact @Kesstryl in-game to join.4 -
Juomuuri✭✭✭✭If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.
I've played WoW a bit, and the way they handled accountwide achievements was effective: the achievement would show which character(s) had gotten it - just adding the original date and consecutive alt character completions on said achievement would solve the problems imo. Could it be implemented similar to this perhaps?
(Sorry if this was already brought up, I wanted to make sure to get this through without having to read the long thread.)PC-EU (Steam) - Roleplayer, Quester, Crafter, Furnisher, Dungeoneer - Fashion Scrolls - CP 2100+
I tank on each class, my favorite is tanksorc!1 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think what sucks the most about it is that if you did a quest that has a related achievement on it five years ago, the ability to ever do that again on alts will be gone forever. You might have done it so long ago that you barely even remember doing it, yet you will never be able to do it again, ever, once this change goes live.
I think this will negatively affect people a lot more than some of you think.7 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I could say the same, I didn't like how RPers are being lumped into the group that does like these changes as I know many who don't. Seriously, you like having your individual character progress wiped out like they're just amalgams of you as the player and not have their own individual records, achievements, and progress tracked? You like having quests locked out of your alts because one of your characters did that quest already and got the achievement? I think if the RP community you run with really saw how this was being implemented on PTS, they would be up in arms over this. I'm not against account wide achievements, I'm happy to let others play the way they want, but I'm not happy about individual character progress and quests being lost over this. I'm not happy that I will have characters that can't do the Bard's Quest in Solitude ever again because one character already got the achievement. Go look at how this has been implemented on PTS and then tell me the RP community is ok with having their individual characters neutered like this.
This roleplayer agrees.
I am very strong in the sort of roleplaying where the character grows from inception through increasingly difficult challenges and successes, until they reach what might be considered an apex. Computer video games tend to vary on how this is done, and to what degree.
For me, playing ESO as a roleplaying game was a matter of properly setting expectations around the limits of the game design. Continuity is important for me, but they never implemented the "quest journal" that is commonly found in many computer roleplaying games. They did have character-based achievements, which can serve the same purpose. Without some way to establish continuity, I usually won't roleplay in the game.
Now that ZOS is considering removal of this feature, ESO really does not meet my minimum expectations for roleplaying in ESO. I lose continuity, and would have to replicate this outside of the game. I can still play ESO as an action-adventure game, as I perceive it is intended to be. For those sorts of games, I really only need one character. I have a lot of character deleting to do when this goes live.
I also need to find a new RPG game.3 -
jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, it really needs to be looked at, on an achievement-by-achievement basis.
Some things should be character specific, and some things should be account wide.
Anything that IS NOT completable on more than one character (e.g. some of the Holiday Achievement mementos - there's a couple from the Jesters Festival, in particular) - should be account-wide.
Anything related directly to the in-game quests, whether story or side-quest, should be character-specific. This includes things like the "collection" sidequests - Bards Library, Wrothgar Relic Hunter, Morrowind Tombs, Summerset Psijic Relics, Clockwork Factotum Parts, Murkmire Calendar Pieces, Elsweyr tapestry and mural fragments. The Blackwood Tapestry is an unusual exception since that was designed specially to be a cross-character collection - UNLIKE the others. But then, is there an in-game quest for the Blackwood Tapestry?
Special achievements (dungeon speed achievements, dungeon no-death achievements, hard modes, kill total of X monsters of type Y, do repeatable quest X a certain number of times) - these things could be account-wide.
In the case of "kill X monsters" or "do repeatable quest X number of times", this could even carry across characters - becoming a Murkmire Prepper by doing a Murkmire daily quest 15 times each on 10 characters to make a total of 150, for example. Even "Black Market Mogul" would be a bit easier if all your characters could make their contributions towards the million gold worth of stolen items you have to sell (I'm currently at 370k on my main character, and 150k and 98k on the next two.)2 -
LightningWitch✭✭✭
I can promise you this: if I'm wearing my Master Thief title on my newly created level 2 alt, it's not that I can't thieve.This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?
It's just that I haven't had a chance to kiss Kari and steal her list to accomplish it to earn the title.
But I'm we'll ahead of the curve, thanks to my "sisters" paving the way on knowing where and how to acquire those items without being caught.
Except for Rawl'Kha - seriously, who put that item in front of those two who never leave?!
0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LightningWitch wrote: »Except for Rawl'Kha - seriously, who put that item in front of those two who never leave?!
I finished Kari's without ever being caught, so it's certainly possible.
0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They favour account-wide titles (and achievements) because it enables them, for example, to roll a Lord and play that role from level 1, as explained in their detailed backstory.
Only issue with this statement is the fact that you can get Lord/Lady on a level 1 character. Same with Count/Countess, Clan Father/ Clan Mother, and Councilor since they're tied to account wide home ownership over an actual deed you must complete.
I know hard core roleplayers that do actually go out of their way to get the titles for their characters, and they enjoy PvE and PvP content as much as they enjoy sitting around an inn typing in /emote for hours on end. I'm one of them.Edited by Vevvev on February 7, 2022 6:11PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't understand why there can't just be a global achievement score tracker. Does that not do what people want?
Who actually wanted titles shared across characters who didn't do the achievements associated with them?
How is it worthwhile to undermine a considerable part of the game, which has had considerable development effort put into it, to please people who don't engage with that content.
Titles matter in the endgame community, and I would honestly hope for anyone who enjoys the personal satisfaction of achievement. If you wanted Dawnbringer on your sorc you had to earn it, now you just.... don't need to. Why would anyone bother going back into that content. For fun?? You think people enjoy no-deathing the chickens in vHoF?
People progging Godslayer on multiple teams may as well drop down to one and put all their time into that.
Yes this is just a game about collecting pixels and having a good time doing it, and it's filled by people with different motivations and goals; I enjoy many aspects of the game. But this one move is undermining the time spent by highly motivated people and will alienate them from the game. I know many people who already have difficult titles on several toons who are still keen to go in and get it done on others.
Say I've got 18 toons designed for different content, why would I want trial based achievements unlocked on some PvP bosmer stamblade, why would anyone want to roll around in the sewers with a title earned on a necro tank?
I also see a lot of people saying titles are no guarantee of a players ability, and yeah some people can be carried to some titles, but those people get found out, its just that this is going to make it even more of a chore than it was to weed out bad and duplicitous players from disrupting raid teams. I'm disappointed that Zenimax don't see how detrimental this is to the end-game raiding community.
It's yet another indication that they do not care for players who operate outside of the mainstream roleplaying community. If you pursue PvP and veteran content your time and effort is apparently of little concern.
Wrong, RPers don't like this either, we only want titles on characters who went through that content and earned it story-wise. We use the achievement tracker kind of like a character journal since there is no equivalent feature. We are losing out on this just like you. This is not what RPers want.
We just spent several pages discussing RPers and what they want. With respect to the derailing observation above, lets not get into it again, but please refrain from speaking for all RPers, because the RP community at large is looking forward to this pretty hard.
Out of interest, what's the difference between one person generalising about RPers and another person talking about the RP community at large?
The difference is one player making an absolutist statement about 'Us RPers don't want this change' and 'Every single part of the pretty well connected and communicating RP communities known to me and those in contact with me being overwhelmingly positive towards this.'
Heck, many of them see this as the best thing to come with the update or tied with the general notion of more Breton Lore, and while I'm certain some aren't as ecstatic, out of many hundreds, I've seen a grand total of two speak up within said communities - once, and pretty much in the 'Eh, I'd prefer otherwise' department rather than classifying it as a big deal.
Now, could there be less connected small bubbles about that don't like it? Sure. Could they outweigh the rest? Hard doubt, and there's certainly far too many that like this change for some absolute 'RPers don't like this' line.
I could say the same, I didn't like how RPers are being lumped into the group that does like these changes as I know many who don't. Seriously, you like having your individual character progress wiped out like they're just amalgams of you as the player and not have their own individual records, achievements, and progress tracked? You like having quests locked out of your alts because one of your characters did that quest already and got the achievement? I think if the RP community you run with really saw how this was being implemented on PTS, they would be up in arms over this. I'm not against account wide achievements, I'm happy to let others play the way they want, but I'm not happy about individual character progress and quests being lost over this. I'm not happy that I will have characters that can't do the Bard's Quest in Solitude ever again because one character already got the achievement. Go look at how this has been implemented on PTS and then tell me the RP community is ok with having their individual characters neutered like this.
I recommend you read what has been discussed previously, and consider that moderators have to asked to end that particular line of discussion. We have different opinions on what constitutes roleplay.
Suffice to say: Yes, roleplaying communities are largely happy with account wide achievements indeed, because game mechanics such as an achievement list are entirely irrelevant to their roleplaying, and thus the advantages usually prevail.2 -
Certain titles are not purely an adornment, unlike a Skin (purely cosmetic in nature) or a The Sunspire Champion Senche-Lion Mount (another cosmetic trophy) - these already specify some toon completion of ESO content. Why duplicate what you already have here? What is the specific motive or reasoning behind the dev's logic here?
Titles indicate specific toon ESO Content related completion. Removing specificity to characters removes another reason for people to push to learn new skillsets on a different toons while maintaining knowledge. Specifically in-game if I am looking for a quick run through certain content, I can ask someone whom has already completed this on a specific toon (and vice-versa) if they want to commit to a follow-up run; this is especially helpful when running content but having limited time - this is perhaps the ESO player bases most valuable and yet most undervalued asset. Do not limit identification of player skillset by doing this.
Regarding certain commentary about titles being fairly obligatory in nature, such as:
I would tend to agree for some titles with the exception of some harder content, for example:
Vet Arenas - Flawless Conqueror, Spiritblood Champion, Boethia's Scythe and Blackrose Executioner
Vet Hardmode Trials - Godslayer
Vet Trifecta/Perfecta Dungeons - True Genius, Ardent Bibliophile
To achieve each of the above Titles require a modicum of skill & class knowledge, knowledge of basic-to-intermediate playstyle mechanics, knowledge of content mechanics and a considerable amount of dedication towards achievement.
Regarding other's commentary about titles being a great deal, I agree... perhaps not in the same way other's such as this poster may feel:Dalsinthus wrote: »I'm thrilled with account wide achievements becoming a thing. It's huge.
This will be a great deal as it will contribute to a decline in overall in the seasoned veteran player base.
Applying game wide titles further removes a replayability feature for all players as they grow in skill. I'm certain ZOS would like us to come back for more year after year, no?
Are you certain as Dev's you want to contribute an additional reason for players to not want to continue to play ESO?Edited by Nullhawk3D on February 7, 2022 6:26PM@Nullhawk3D | ESO XBOX/PC | NA
The Crafty Warriors circa 2016
"Honestly... let us speak to the matter at hand... honestly."“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche1 -
Kesstryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't understand why there can't just be a global achievement score tracker. Does that not do what people want?
Who actually wanted titles shared across characters who didn't do the achievements associated with them?
How is it worthwhile to undermine a considerable part of the game, which has had considerable development effort put into it, to please people who don't engage with that content.
Titles matter in the endgame community, and I would honestly hope for anyone who enjoys the personal satisfaction of achievement. If you wanted Dawnbringer on your sorc you had to earn it, now you just.... don't need to. Why would anyone bother going back into that content. For fun?? You think people enjoy no-deathing the chickens in vHoF?
People progging Godslayer on multiple teams may as well drop down to one and put all their time into that.
Yes this is just a game about collecting pixels and having a good time doing it, and it's filled by people with different motivations and goals; I enjoy many aspects of the game. But this one move is undermining the time spent by highly motivated people and will alienate them from the game. I know many people who already have difficult titles on several toons who are still keen to go in and get it done on others.
Say I've got 18 toons designed for different content, why would I want trial based achievements unlocked on some PvP bosmer stamblade, why would anyone want to roll around in the sewers with a title earned on a necro tank?
I also see a lot of people saying titles are no guarantee of a players ability, and yeah some people can be carried to some titles, but those people get found out, its just that this is going to make it even more of a chore than it was to weed out bad and duplicitous players from disrupting raid teams. I'm disappointed that Zenimax don't see how detrimental this is to the end-game raiding community.
It's yet another indication that they do not care for players who operate outside of the mainstream roleplaying community. If you pursue PvP and veteran content your time and effort is apparently of little concern.
Wrong, RPers don't like this either, we only want titles on characters who went through that content and earned it story-wise. We use the achievement tracker kind of like a character journal since there is no equivalent feature. We are losing out on this just like you. This is not what RPers want.
We just spent several pages discussing RPers and what they want. With respect to the derailing observation above, lets not get into it again, but please refrain from speaking for all RPers, because the RP community at large is looking forward to this pretty hard.
Out of interest, what's the difference between one person generalising about RPers and another person talking about the RP community at large?
The difference is one player making an absolutist statement about 'Us RPers don't want this change' and 'Every single part of the pretty well connected and communicating RP communities known to me and those in contact with me being overwhelmingly positive towards this.'
Heck, many of them see this as the best thing to come with the update or tied with the general notion of more Breton Lore, and while I'm certain some aren't as ecstatic, out of many hundreds, I've seen a grand total of two speak up within said communities - once, and pretty much in the 'Eh, I'd prefer otherwise' department rather than classifying it as a big deal.
Now, could there be less connected small bubbles about that don't like it? Sure. Could they outweigh the rest? Hard doubt, and there's certainly far too many that like this change for some absolute 'RPers don't like this' line.
I could say the same, I didn't like how RPers are being lumped into the group that does like these changes as I know many who don't. Seriously, you like having your individual character progress wiped out like they're just amalgams of you as the player and not have their own individual records, achievements, and progress tracked? You like having quests locked out of your alts because one of your characters did that quest already and got the achievement? I think if the RP community you run with really saw how this was being implemented on PTS, they would be up in arms over this. I'm not against account wide achievements, I'm happy to let others play the way they want, but I'm not happy about individual character progress and quests being lost over this. I'm not happy that I will have characters that can't do the Bard's Quest in Solitude ever again because one character already got the achievement. Go look at how this has been implemented on PTS and then tell me the RP community is ok with having their individual characters neutered like this.
I recommend you read what has been discussed previously, and consider that moderators have to asked to end that particular line of discussion. We have different opinions on what constitutes roleplay.
Suffice to say: Yes, roleplaying communities are largely happy with account wide achievements indeed, because game mechanics such as an achievement list are entirely irrelevant to their roleplaying, and thus the advantages usually prevail.
I don't think you are reading what I'm saying. I said I'm not against account wide achievements. It's right there, just read it. I'm against how it's currently implemented on PTS right now. I'm glad you are ok with individual character data being obliterated and that it won't impact your RP. I'd rather have both account wide achievements and save my individual character data and achievements, and not have the rest of my alts locked out of things because one of them got an achievement. I do use quests as part of my RP and backstories, maybe you don't, but some of us do. Don't judge my RP based on how you RP.HEARTHLIGHT - A guild for housing enthusiasts! Contact @Kesstryl in-game to join.1 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭LightningWitch wrote: »
I can promise you this: if I'm wearing my Master Thief title on my newly created level 2 alt, it's not that I can't thieve.This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?
It's just that I haven't had a chance to kiss Kari and steal her list to accomplish it to earn the title.
But I'm we'll ahead of the curve, thanks to my "sisters" paving the way on knowing where and how to acquire those items without being caught.
Except for Rawl'Kha - seriously, who put that item in front of those two who never leave?!
Actually Museum quests, like Kari's list, will not be doable on alts. Because the game tracks the stolen items through Achievements, the game will think you've already done this quest, even for a new character. So if you've already done the quest on one character, you won't be able to do it ever again even on a new character. At least not in it's entirity.
This is true for all Museum quests, like the Dark Brotherhood Litany of Blood, the Mural quest in Northern Elsweyr, Tapestry quest in Southern Elsweyr, etc.
Depending on which Museum quest it is, the game will either let you do the "first piece" and then auto complete it, or it will simply not allow you to pick up the quest at all.1 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do you hate the "player over character" philosophy so much? Let's say I got a difficult achievement and I want to show it on each of my characters. Why not?PC/EU1 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SydneyGrey wrote: »I'm guessing about half are happy about this change and the other half are devastated by it.
What's the point of doing Maelstrom on different characters now? You'll already have the title on every character after you do it once.
Also, it'll destroy the ability to get additional music boxes by doing the Bards College quest. As of the PTS now you can't do it anymore. It's gone. You can't even do that quest any more if you've already done it once. That's awful for a lot of people. It takes away something I paid for by buying that chapter.
The music box part seem more like an unintended thing thoughEdited by Dark_Lord_Kuro on February 7, 2022 11:31PM0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Parasaurolophus wrote: »Why do you hate the "player over character" philosophy so much? Let's say I got a difficult achievement and I want to show it on each of my characters. Why not?
For me it's because I'm not playing "checkers", I'm playing "this particular breton templar who did these things" and then I'm playing "this particular argonian who did these things".
I want to retain my characters' individual histories.
If you don't - that's cool for you.
I intensely dislike the loss of individuality for my characters, replayability for the various quests, and the ability to tell which skyshards a particular character has not yet found.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis8 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.
@ZOS_Kevin I got a concern, what is the point of creating an alt now if all titles and achievements are unlocked? My new alt will literally have nothing to work towards and even when you do complete something you don't get the satisfaction or reward of completing it with that new character. It will literally take attachment from any new characters from us, I know it will for me.
This should be optional at least.
I am only running so many alts now for the daily crafting income. That and that I like leveling characters. I am somewhat tired of skyshard hunting, but that does end. (I HATE charging Crowns for those.)
Who cares if someone has a title earned on another character? I am unlikely to earn many at all, what skin is it off anyone else if I can use the ones I have earned on any of my characters?
Though I find them about as useful as non-combat pets. Interesting for a brief period, then just annoying, at least for my own use. I have never respected anyone more or less for any title and I mostly just ignore them.PC
PS4/PS52 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HedgehogFeet wrote: »Could they not make motifs account wide
This would be VERY nice, but would crater the Motif sales market.
====
Account-wide should really be account-wide as well, not server wide. Or call it what it is.PC
PS4/PS50 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »I've carefully avoided getting the "Murderer" and other crime achievements on some characters while gleefully chasing them on others.
Joy.
Do you have to note that on a character? I thought setting a title was optional.PC
PS4/PS50 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »Parasaurolophus wrote: »Why do you hate the "player over character" philosophy so much? Let's say I got a difficult achievement and I want to show it on each of my characters. Why not?
For me it's because I'm not playing "checkers", I'm playing "this particular breton templar who did these things" and then I'm playing "this particular argonian who did these things".
I want to retain my characters' individual histories.
If you don't - that's cool for you.
I intensely dislike the loss of individuality for my characters, replayability for the various quests, and the ability to tell which skyshards a particular character has not yet found.
Just dont equip those titles
For the quest im pretty sure its not intended bu we will see in that q&a they are planning
For the skyshard, someone on the accountwide achievement feedback thread found out that the addon to find skyshard is conflcting with the new system as it check the acheivement to work. He deactivated it and magicly he could now see wich was found or not via the acheivement, the zone guide and the in game shyshard map2