Gaze of Sithis

WolfyRaps

Draevik wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

Oops forgot to throw in examples

If the calculations are based on the total, I have no idea the mathz behind it.

• 40k armor to receive a 10k armor buff from the piece
• 33k health to receive the 5k health buff
• 2000 HP regen to get 500 HP regen buff

Agree. Otherwise it is an automatic equip on Sorc and NB.

You invest all in offence, you equip this and you are an absolute monster in PVP.. A tank with 25k armor, 30k health 1000+ health regen and offence better than any other class in the game... and you you have the best escape tools in game...


The loss of monster sets do not even impact NB and sorcs so much as most sorcs wear Chudan and NB Balrog, which in terms of stats density this sets beats 5x times.

Block was not an option for these classes before either so they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by equiping Gaze of Sithis Bookmark.

Draevik

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

Oops forgot to throw in examples

If the calculations are based on the total, I have no idea the mathz behind it.

• 40k armor to receive a 10k armor buff from the piece
• 33k health to receive the 5k health buff
• 2000 HP regen to get 500 HP regen buff

Agree. Otherwise it is an automatic equip on Sorc and NB.

You invest all in offence, you equip this and you are an absolute monster in PVP.. A tank with 25k armor, 30k health 1000+ health regen and offence better than any other class in the game... and you you have the best escape tools in game...


The loss of monster sets do not even impact NB and sorcs so much as most sorcs wear Chudan and NB Balrog, which in terms of stats density this sets beats 5x times.

Block was not an option for these classes before either so they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by equiping Gaze of Sithis Bookmark.

As soon as I saw this in the patch notes I literally started laughing. I instantly said ok, 2 offensive sets and this on pretty much any class is op. I have done block builds etc, but I have found roll dodging is the king defensive tool, I only block for CC. Big hitters that I can avoid I try mobility or roll dodge and counter attack. On most PVPers the lack of block mitigation is a non-factor for the other benefits granted by this piece.

IAmIcehouse

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

It is overpowered...

Would it be less "overpowered" if the tooltip said:

- 5000 health
- 15% dmg mitigation
- You lose all block mitigation bonus

? ?

No?

katorga

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

No way. ZOS just through a whole phase of "percentage calculations cause lag" mania, and started changing everything they could to flat values.

Sithis in isolation is pretty well balanced. What will be OP are the builds you can enable by combining with other things. Malacath was the same way, on its face losing crit was a huge negative, then ZOS went insane with proc sets and suddenly crit didn't matter and Malacath became a massive synergy with procs sets.

WolfyRaps

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

No way. ZOS just through a whole phase of "percentage calculations cause lag" mania, and started changing everything they could to flat values.

Sithis in isolation is pretty well balanced. What will be OP are the builds you can enable by combining with other things. Malacath was the same way, on its face losing crit was a huge negative, then ZOS went insane with proc sets and suddenly crit didn't matter and Malacath became a massive synergy with procs sets.

No way. Malacath was a balanced item compared to this. This is a Meta Nuclear Bomb..

katorga

WolfyRaps wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

No way. ZOS just through a whole phase of "percentage calculations cause lag" mania, and started changing everything they could to flat values.

Sithis in isolation is pretty well balanced. What will be OP are the builds you can enable by combining with other things. Malacath was the same way, on its face losing crit was a huge negative, then ZOS went insane with proc sets and suddenly crit didn't matter and Malacath became a massive synergy with procs sets.

No way. Malacath was a balanced item compared to this. This is a Meta Nuclear Bomb..

No way. Judging from the host of anti-malacath-proc meta posts in the forums, Malacath was a Meta Nuclear Bomb too. So much so that they just nuked procsets and malacath only a few patches after they made them OP.

And I agree with you, this will be a problem. They need to delete it and start over.

If this stays in....Healthplar, blazing shield, bone shield, crimson and Gaze of Sithis.

Firstmep

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

divnyi

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

ZOS please listen to this guy.

It will make item unique - as in, create a unique gameplay for tank characters, instead of musthave item for all the DDs.

relentless_turnip

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

Skander

Can't wait for medium 10k suprise attacks from a cloaking dodging nightblade with 32k health 30k armor and 3k health recovery

divnyi

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

It doesn't have to be best min-max item. If you can do MAXIMUM HEALTH BUILD with it that doesn't suck, then it is good Unique item.

Draevik

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

These percentages were just quick examples I came up with, by doing some basic math. It could be tuned upwards, but not too high because then certain stats could become outrageous.

They could boost it to
+30% armor, requires 26,000 armor to achieve 33,800 (capped mit), however being at capped mit already gives you 9.9k mit, which is very useful for countering PVP high pen builds.
+20% health, requires 25,000 HP to get the 5000 HP bonus, stack more health, get more use.
+30% HP regen, gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires more investment to achieve the full benefit.

That is as high as they could possibly go without it becoming broken

Draevik

Draevik wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

These percentages were just quick examples I came up with, by doing some basic math. It could be tuned upwards, but not too high because then certain stats could become outrageous.

They could boost it to
+30% armor, requires 26,000 armor to achieve 33,800 (capped mit), however being at capped mit already gives you 9.9k mit, which is very useful for countering PVP high pen builds.
+20% health, requires 25,000 HP to get the 5000 HP bonus, stack more health, get more use.
+30% HP regen, gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires more investment to achieve the full benefit.
EDIT:
That is as high as they could possibly go without it becoming broken

EDIT (forgot to add the number)
+30% HP regen, 1,670 HP regen gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires a decent investment to reap the benefits.

jaws343

Draevik wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

These percentages were just quick examples I came up with, by doing some basic math. It could be tuned upwards, but not too high because then certain stats could become outrageous.

They could boost it to
+30% armor, requires 26,000 armor to achieve 33,800 (capped mit), however being at capped mit already gives you 9.9k mit, which is very useful for countering PVP high pen builds.
+20% health, requires 25,000 HP to get the 5000 HP bonus, stack more health, get more use.
+30% HP regen, gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires more investment to achieve the full benefit.
EDIT:
That is as high as they could possibly go without it becoming broken

EDIT (forgot to add the number)
+30% HP regen, 1,670 HP regen gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires a decent investment to reap the benefits.

The regen bonus is pretty useless in PVP now.

Gaining 15% mitigation at the loss of block damage mitigation is a decent trade off. I think people are really underestimating the amount of damage they block in PVP, even if they rarely block. A number of ults that are not a problem because they can be blocked will become problems. Situations, like in execute where blocking may save your life are now going to be deadly. And, not to mention it is barely going to offset the added damage players using Malacath can put out. There's nothing really wrong with having a direct counter to another Mythic that most people are going to be using. Especially at the cost of a monster set, the use of other mythics, and no block damage mitigation.

master_vanargand

"Add 5000 Health" and "10760 Armor" in Gaze of Sithis are super over powered.
Need change "10760 Armor" to "Major Resolve".

IAmIcehouse

jaws343 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

These percentages were just quick examples I came up with, by doing some basic math. It could be tuned upwards, but not too high because then certain stats could become outrageous.

They could boost it to
+30% armor, requires 26,000 armor to achieve 33,800 (capped mit), however being at capped mit already gives you 9.9k mit, which is very useful for countering PVP high pen builds.
+20% health, requires 25,000 HP to get the 5000 HP bonus, stack more health, get more use.
+30% HP regen, gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires more investment to achieve the full benefit.
EDIT:
That is as high as they could possibly go without it becoming broken

EDIT (forgot to add the number)
+30% HP regen, 1,670 HP regen gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires a decent investment to reap the benefits.

The regen bonus is pretty useless in PVP now.

Gaining 15% mitigation at the loss of block damage mitigation is a decent trade off. I think people are really underestimating the amount of damage they block in PVP, even if they rarely block. A number of ults that are not a problem because they can be blocked will become problems. Situations, like in execute where blocking may save your life are now going to be deadly. And, not to mention it is barely going to offset the added damage players using Malacath can put out. There's nothing really wrong with having a direct counter to another Mythic that most people are going to be using. Especially at the cost of a monster set, the use of other mythics, and no block damage mitigation.

There's not a concern this is BIS on all specs. But it would be very strong on magsorcs, where you don't block with shields, shields ceiling is restricted by max HP and hold resistances. Also on stamblades where typical mitigation is done by rolling. Anything that is absolutely BIS on any given class is not good for the game.

relentless_turnip

divnyi wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

It doesn't have to be best min-max item. If you can do MAXIMUM HEALTH BUILD with it that doesn't suck, then it is good Unique item.

I'm not suggesting it needs to be min max. Simply what the point in slotting an item for defence if you already have it?

Draevik

jaws343 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

These percentages were just quick examples I came up with, by doing some basic math. It could be tuned upwards, but not too high because then certain stats could become outrageous.

They could boost it to
+30% armor, requires 26,000 armor to achieve 33,800 (capped mit), however being at capped mit already gives you 9.9k mit, which is very useful for countering PVP high pen builds.
+20% health, requires 25,000 HP to get the 5000 HP bonus, stack more health, get more use.
+30% HP regen, gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires more investment to achieve the full benefit.
EDIT:
That is as high as they could possibly go without it becoming broken

EDIT (forgot to add the number)
+30% HP regen, 1,670 HP regen gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires a decent investment to reap the benefits.

The regen bonus is pretty useless in PVP now.

Gaining 15% mitigation at the loss of block damage mitigation is a decent trade off. I think people are really underestimating the amount of damage they block in PVP, even if they rarely block. A number of ults that are not a problem because they can be blocked will become problems. Situations, like in execute where blocking may save your life are now going to be deadly. And, not to mention it is barely going to offset the added damage players using Malacath can put out. There's nothing really wrong with having a direct counter to another Mythic that most people are going to be using. Especially at the cost of a monster set, the use of other mythics, and no block damage mitigation.

Except most light armor wearing players will see a massive increase in their survivability. Light armor averages 18-19k armor, wearing this they jump up to 28-29k armor, their health jumps up to heavy armor values as well as their regen. That is insane. If a light armor wearer starts blocking against me, they are toast their stam will be gone in seconds. What saves them is their heals and wards, roll dodge, mobility. Either blocking some of the time, vs having a constant giant increase in damage reduction... easy choice. Add psijic Temporal Guard to the mix. You think magsorcs are bad now, just you wait.

Then you can add this problem also to medium armor, even worse honestly, they get all the benefits of heavy and will have higher mit. If this comes out as is I will run 2 high dps sets and this and not think twice. I will have close to 40k resists in medium armor negating most peoples pen.

relentless_turnip

Draevik wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

These percentages were just quick examples I came up with, by doing some basic math. It could be tuned upwards, but not too high because then certain stats could become outrageous.

They could boost it to
+30% armor, requires 26,000 armor to achieve 33,800 (capped mit), however being at capped mit already gives you 9.9k mit, which is very useful for countering PVP high pen builds.
+20% health, requires 25,000 HP to get the 5000 HP bonus, stack more health, get more use.
+30% HP regen, gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires more investment to achieve the full benefit.

That is as high as they could possibly go without it becoming broken

It is a reasonable suggestion, but I still think the simplest idea is just to tweak the flat values.

Tommy_The_Gun

master_vanargand wrote: »

"Add 5000 Health" and "10760 Armor" in Gaze of Sithis are super over powered.
Need change "10760 Armor" to "Major Resolve".

There are plenty of sources of Resolve buff in eso, so it will be kinda wasted bonus. Also I think that reducing 10K armour (arround 15 - 16% dmg mitigation) to anything lower would mean that "0 block mitigation" should be converted to something different, like reduced dmg you can block by X%, instead of removing all block mitigation.

Besides, if it gave Resolve buff, I would simply use Chudan + other mythic and keep my block mitigation.

relentless_turnip

master_vanargand wrote: »

"Add 5000 Health" and "10760 Armor" in Gaze of Sithis are super over powered.
Need change "10760 Armor" to "Major Resolve".

I can't see anyone wanting it if it provides major resolve as every class has a better option for that buff. Certainly the value of it would be fine 👍

Draevik

master_vanargand wrote: »

"Add 5000 Health" and "10760 Armor" in Gaze of Sithis are super over powered.
Need change "10760 Armor" to "Major Resolve".

That would just remove the need for Chudan, that would be silly.

They could however, make a compromise, instead they could take a different unique approach away from percentages.

• Doubles the effectiveness of Major and Minor Resolve. Which would make it 11,896 for major resolve and 5948

This is a total increase of 8,922 armor with both buffs active.

This requires active use to obtain the benefits, and a huge drop in survivability if the armor buff drops for a brief time. Allowing counterplay

OR

• Increases the armor value of each worn piece by 65%.

IE Heavy chest piece goes from gold quality 2,772 to 4,573 armor.

7 piece heavy goes from 14,897 to 24,580 armor. This is discounting the 2401 3-point passive Resolve as it is not affected by the mythic. This is nearly the 10k that is currently listed on the mythic item, but it requires you to build for defense to get the full benefit.

LinearParadox

katorga wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

No way. ZOS just through a whole phase of "percentage calculations cause lag" mania, and started changing everything they could to flat values.

Sithis in isolation is pretty well balanced. What will be OP are the builds you can enable by combining with other things. Malacath was the same way, on its face losing crit was a huge negative, then ZOS went insane with proc sets and suddenly crit didn't matter and Malacath became a massive synergy with procs sets.

No way. Malacath was a balanced item compared to this. This is a Meta Nuclear Bomb..

If this stays in....Healthplar, blazing shield, bone shield, crimson and Gaze of Sithis.

Don't forget your costume for that build, super important while you sit around looking pretty with your troll tank that can do absolutely nothing
Seriously... not an issue tbh

master_vanargand wrote: »

"Add 5000 Health" and "10760 Armor" in Gaze of Sithis are super over powered.
Need change "10760 Armor" to "Major Resolve".

Would make the set absolute garbage. Major Resolve buff in sets is terrible. There's already readily available sources from class abilities, all of which come with good passives that make them worth slotting (Like DK's %healing taken or Warden's Minor Protection) rather than trying to obtain passively. There's only three types of people that run Chudan's:
1. WW builds (Before they changed WW passive to be Major Resolve and therefore it stacked, and couldn't be otherwise sourced while in WW form)
2. A very, VERY few fringe builds that don't have the bar space to slot the buff, like "beginner friendly" 1-bar builds or something.
3. Newbies that don't know any better. (Not bashing, some people just haven't learned yet.)

Draevik wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

"Add 5000 Health" and "10760 Armor" in Gaze of Sithis are super over powered.
Need change "10760 Armor" to "Major Resolve".

That would just remove the need for Chudan, that would be silly.

They could however, make a compromise, instead they could take a different unique approach away from percentages.

• Doubles the effectiveness of Major and Minor Resolve. Which would make it 11,896 for major resolve and 5948

This is a total increase of 8,922 armor with both buffs active.

This requires active use to obtain the benefits, and a huge drop in survivability if the armor buff drops for a brief time. Allowing counterplay

OR

• Increases the armor value of each worn piece by 65%.

IE Heavy chest piece goes from gold quality 2,772 to 4,573 armor.

7 piece heavy goes from 14,897 to 24,580 armor. This is discounting the 2401 3-point passive Resolve as it is not affected by the mythic. This is nearly the 10k that is currently listed on the mythic item, but it requires you to build for defense to get the full benefit.

This, however... is a very cool idea, and an interesting alternative to the flat bonuses which are inherently exploitable.
However the numbers would have to be tuned carefully to give it enough value to be invested in without requiring the person to make their build a "titanium teddybear" (Opposite of a glass cannon)

Draevik wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

This is actually a really good idea! That way it cant just be paired with full glass cannon sets so easily.

Props.

It is a good idea in theory, but my immediate question would be what is then the point? If you have to stack high resists and high health to get effective use of this why would you bother? At that point your build would get more out of rather a healing monster set, s&b, resto staff, a damage set, another mythic etc... They just need to tune it down IMO. 6-7k resists and 3kish health seems less mental and will probably still be bis for any 2h/bow or destro/resto users.

These percentages were just quick examples I came up with, by doing some basic math. It could be tuned upwards, but not too high because then certain stats could become outrageous.

They could boost it to
+30% armor, requires 26,000 armor to achieve 33,800 (capped mit), however being at capped mit already gives you 9.9k mit, which is very useful for countering PVP high pen builds.
+20% health, requires 25,000 HP to get the 5000 HP bonus, stack more health, get more use.
+30% HP regen, gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires more investment to achieve the full benefit.
EDIT:
That is as high as they could possibly go without it becoming broken

EDIT (forgot to add the number)
+30% HP regen, 1,670 HP regen gives you the full bonus of 500 regen bonus, which requires a decent investment to reap the benefits.

The regen bonus is pretty useless in PVP now.

Gaining 15% mitigation at the loss of block damage mitigation is a decent trade off. I think people are really underestimating the amount of damage they block in PVP, even if they rarely block. A number of ults that are not a problem because they can be blocked will become problems. Situations, like in execute where blocking may save your life are now going to be deadly. And, not to mention it is barely going to offset the added damage players using Malacath can put out. There's nothing really wrong with having a direct counter to another Mythic that most people are going to be using. Especially at the cost of a monster set, the use of other mythics, and no block damage mitigation.

Except most light armor wearing players will see a massive increase in their survivability. Light armor averages 18-19k armor

Where are you getting that? You mean "most light armor builds? Because I have a light armor Sorc build with no defensive sets, on an Altmer. Without Lightning form my resists are 7K and 12K. That's not jack diddly, and adding GoS isn't going to catapult me into some kind of unkillable god-tank in light armor. It's potentially not even an improvement given the prevalence of, and relatively cheap investment cost of penetration; many builds in PvP are running 15-20K Pen. My MagBlade, without even trying or running any dedicated penetration sets, hits 22K Spell Pen.
So my MagSorc build above goes from 12K SR to 22K SR... and from my MagBlade's perspective, they just went from 0 SR to 2K SR. Big whoop.
As I mentioned before, flat armor is one of the worst forms of defense in the game right now because of the prevalence of high penetration.

divnyi

jaws343 wrote: »

The regen bonus is pretty useless in PVP now.

Which is a seriously stupid decision that hopefully would be reverted, btw.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I'm not suggesting it needs to be min max. Simply what the point in slotting an item for defence if you already have it?

Because unique items shouldn't be meta items. They should be Timmy items, not Spike items.

Why would you want to have more toughness if you are tough already? Because it is more. Bigger number. Percent scaling will allow to even use some HP sets to make it ridiculous, maybe even surviving oneshot mechanics with HP and armor only.

And for PvP, you can easily go for 35k health, so it will give you another 5k and will finish your armor cap without any other traits or bonuses, leaving a room for something else. It is still a lot of stats.

katorga

LinearParadox wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

They could have approached the set bonuses from a more dynamic way.

IE

• Increases total armor by 25%
• Increases max health by 15%
• Increases Health Regen by 25%
• Reduces block mitigation to 0

This at least requires a decent amount of any of the stats in vested to give you a valuable benefit.

No way. ZOS just through a whole phase of "percentage calculations cause lag" mania, and started changing everything they could to flat values.

Sithis in isolation is pretty well balanced. What will be OP are the builds you can enable by combining with other things. Malacath was the same way, on its face losing crit was a huge negative, then ZOS went insane with proc sets and suddenly crit didn't matter and Malacath became a massive synergy with procs sets.

No way. Malacath was a balanced item compared to this. This is a Meta Nuclear Bomb..

If this stays in....Healthplar, blazing shield, bone shield, crimson and Gaze of Sithis.

Don't forget your costume for that build, super important while you sit around looking pretty with your troll tank that can do absolutely nothing
Seriously... not an issue tbh

[Because I have a light armor Sorc build with no defensive sets, on an Altmer. Without Lightning form my resists are 7K and 12K. That's not jack diddly, and adding GoS isn't going to catapult me into some kind of unkillable god-tank in light armor. It's potentially not even an improvement given the prevalence of, and relatively cheap investment cost of penetration; many builds in PvP are running 15-20K Pen. My MagBlade, without even trying or running any dedicated penetration sets, hits 22K Spell Pen.

That healthplar build actually works quite well for me, right now. Hard to kill with just enough weapon damage to get kills in Cyro. And on the proc side, well, procs. It is not a straight troll tank build; it is just where I ended up trying to counter everyone else's burst.

And yes, people are carping about GoS and Magsorcs. Next patch ~20K resists equals zero resists. So aside from the 5K health, GoS on a LA shield stacking mag sorc effectively wastes the 10K armor. If you are in light armor you lop 5% off the 15% damage reduction GoS right off the bat. On stamsorc.......different matter entirely. On my necro.....omg.

Draevik

LinearParadox wrote: »

Where are you getting that? You mean "most light armor builds? Because I have a light armor Sorc build with no defensive sets, on an Altmer. Without Lightning form my resists are 7K and 12K. That's not jack diddly, and adding GoS isn't going to catapult me into some kind of unkillable god-tank in light armor. It's potentially not even an improvement given the prevalence of, and relatively cheap investment cost of penetration; many builds in PvP are running 15-20K Pen. My MagBlade, without even trying or running any dedicated penetration sets, hits 22K Spell Pen.
So my MagSorc build above goes from 12K SR to 22K SR... and from my MagBlade's perspective, they just went from 0 SR to 2K SR. Big whoop.
As I mentioned before, flat armor is one of the worst forms of defense in the game right now because of the prevalence of high penetration.

Well I suppose that is a choice you freely made, I go into every build with the idea of defense first, then ramping up damage to gain kills. I always go Nord for the mit, you have the lady mundus available, you have Cyrodiil's Light, Buffer of the swift for light sets, protective jewelry etc etc. You can easily build your defenses up to 30k you just have to sacrifice some DPS. In most fights you can win by attrition alone. As a magsorc you already have tons of mobility options to add to that. Stack shields, streak away, cat and mouse, conversion. Magsorcs are super powerful enemies against everyone when they have the proper gear and such.

relentless_turnip

I thought I'd test it for myself. I can't duel on PTS I have it installed on a *** laptop and my latency from the EU is unplayable in PvP. However I thought I'd try something hard. So I solo'd a dragon in southern elsweyr... It wasnt hard even. I have tried this a couple of times on live and normally get one shot at some point. I have got close before, but die... This is probably also achievable with pale order, the difference being is pale order is half as effective in PvP and only when you are on the offence.

I ran night mother's gaze, titanborn, 1 piece domihaus and sithis I just threw a random damage build together. I had daring Corsair bow on backbar on a stamsorc. I had 30k resists and 33k health, 7k WD and a butt load of pen.

My early conclusion is that it is totally busted. I really want to use this too, but I think it needs to be 30-50% less effective on the health and armor.

I may try duelling tomorrow, but I never trust the result tbh with the issues I stated above.

Tannus15

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

1. Cant be used with any monster set
2. Cant be used with any other mythic
3. Gives approx 16% dmg mitigation that has a direct counter to (seems in line with malacath)
4. No block mitigation
5. Health regen is cut in half

For the opportunity cost it better be BAMF

I was gonna point that out, than I saw your post.
You kinda nailed it. People are thinking that you will be able to use it with allessian, but that is not the case since health recovery will be useless next patch. Besides, next patch it will be super easy to stack penetration (weapon trait item set). So you can get 20K easily, so I would imagine most builds will run at least 10K.. so again combain that with brutality ring and you are countering it TWICE.

Paradoxically, if this item will be nerfed, it will be because of PvE, not PvP. Somehow no one ever thought that DPS will run it. No need for tank / support if every one will have it. End-game PvE were using Stranglers and, surprise - ZOS nerfed Stranglers as they underestimated what end-game PvE-ers can do.

this.



hurricane with medium dps sets and 2 stat food.
with the clannfear summoned it's actually 32k max health, 30k resists. Crazy stronk.

Sanguinor2

Tannus15 wrote: »

this.



hurricane with medium dps sets and 2 stat food.
with the clannfear summoned it's actually 32k max health, 30k resists. Crazy stronk.

With combat prayer and minor toughness every medium armor pve build running sithis has capped resistances and 33k+ health minimum. Sounds wild. A pve stamplar with this will get a 2k hot from standing in his rune and will actually be over the spell res cap.

Tannus15

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

this.



hurricane with medium dps sets and 2 stat food.
with the clannfear summoned it's actually 32k max health, 30k resists. Crazy stronk.

With combat prayer and minor toughness every medium armor pve build running sithis has capped resistances and 33k+ health minimum. Sounds wild. A pve stamplar with this will get a 2k hot from standing in his rune and will actually be over the spell res cap.

you do sacrifice a monster set and can't run the vate dagger with 2 5pc setup so there is that.
also you can't run harpooner kilt which it looks like will be the goto trials mythic.

this setup is strong, and possibly great for vMA or vVH for anyone who is struggling and has a class self heal, but i really can't see it being a trials setup beyond helping people learn the mechanics.