PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

Sju

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

gregariousjbb14_ESO

Sju wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

That's the whole point - they've been playing the game. A lot.

LadyNalcarya

Sju wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

If people were at endgame level (or approaching it), they shouldn't be kicked back to the start of their journey. Making new, more challenging content, creating new goals? Sure, why not. But if the current system goes live, there's a pretty big chance that people won't be able to clear the same old content they cleared before. It is simply unfair to players who are yet to get their hardmodes.
With all the bugs it's difficult to tell how big the impact would be, but these kinds of changes have been devastating to vet trial/dungeon population (Morrowind patch, for example), and I'm worried. I'm not against the concept of the new cp system but they should do a better job translating current players power to the new system.

IrishRonD

Gave it some time this morning...

My main is a CP1097 Dunmer Sorc Hybrid, I play mainly solo, sometimes PUGs, sometimes with my daughter, but solo survival in everything outside of PvP is how my toon is spec'd. I tried to spec out my toon as similarly as I could from CP1.0 to CP2.0, here is my comparison of old/new and change:

Mag - 19776 / 20557 +781
Health - 30648 / 34196 +3548
Stam - 23465 / 23631 +166

Mag Rec - 637 / 766 +129
Health Rec - 1111 / 1558 +447
Stam Rec - 1044 / 1221 +177

Spell Dmg - 1720 / 2800 +1080
Spell Crit - 13.0% / 17.4% +4.4%
Weap Dmg - 2115 / 3318 +1203
Weap Crit - 39.8% / 33.4% -6.4%

Spell Resist - 13509 / 11199 -2310
Phys Resist - 14578 / 11199 -3379
Crit Resist - 2377 / 1320 -1057

My toon is hitting harder now and is dealing more damage, but on the downside, is taking more damage. I try for a 50/50 compromise between offense and defense. I'm not an uber-player, don't intend to be, but I want something that is challenging that I do not have to micromanage every time I log in and want to do something different.

I have to spend CP in things that I do not need nor want to get to things that I do need or want. Sometimes that expense is 100CP for one star to get closer to the Active or Passive that I want/need. Often, there are several stars that need at least 10CP, 50CP or 75CP along with that 100CP expense to get to a wanted/needed star. The sad thing is, that huge expense to get there is usually not able to used because it either needs to be slotted, or is just not really usable by my char.

Also, to get some of these stars, I would need to gain another 450CP. I have been playing since closed Beta, and been on the Live server since Day 1. I do not have unlimited time to sink into this GAME. If the current XP is used to gain more CP, it would take 2 to 3 years at my current pace to attain 450CP, and about 14 years to attain 3300CP.

I'll give a try for few months when it goes live, but if I see that progress is very slow to attain my goals, I will need to find a different game that does not take up my entire life to enjoy.

Sju

gregariousjbb14_ESO wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

That's the whole point - they've been playing the game. A lot.

So have I. I'm at 1200 on ps4, at around 620 on PC. I don't want the boost, I don't need handouts. It'll make me quit the game if they give me the power instead of earning it.

Artanisul

When games get an expansion that raises the level cap people do not get credit for xp earned while at the cap. It's been that way for quite a long time. The fact that in ESO people were able to level past 810 was a huge exception. Complaining now that you "earned" the extra levels even beyond 1000+ is just pain crazy. Wanting to be catapulted even further than what they already let you gain is entitlement, pure and simple....

On topic, the new CP system lowers our power levels and is quite the blow to many below 810. Free allocation, without the "unlock X to get to Y" would solve a lot of issues.

LadyNalcarya

Sju wrote: »

gregariousjbb14_ESO wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

That's the whole point - they've been playing the game. A lot.

So have I. I'm at 1200 on ps4, at around 620 on PC. I don't want the boost, I don't need handouts. It'll make me quit the game if they give me the power instead of earning it.

I don't think anyone is seriously demanding a boost, people just want to stay at the same level of progression they were before.
I'm at 1600-ish cp, so I'm gonna be more or less okay, but people who just started running vet trials and dungeons at cp 500-700 (and even cp800) would be shafted pretty hard.

robbybobby82

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any idea if you guys plan to add a CP 3600 template to the PTS?

Soul_Demon

Artanisul wrote: »

When games get an expansion that raises the level cap people do not get credit for xp earned while at the cap. It's been that way for quite a long time. The fact that in ESO people were able to level past 810 was a huge exception. Complaining now that you "earned" the extra levels even beyond 1000+ is just pain crazy. Wanting to be catapulted even further than what they already let you gain is entitlement, pure and simple....

On topic, the new CP system lowers our power levels and is quite the blow to many below 810. Free allocation, without the "unlock X to get to Y" would solve a lot of issues.

Entitlement? Look....there is a fundamental breakdown when you say others who put in the work to gain things in game like champion points---then complain so they put cap at 810 to 'even the playing field'.....now I think you have this backwards, to demand others who put in work NOT get anything substantial for that work while others have progression artificially increased so they don't 'feel bad' about not having more points----THAT is entitlement. If you are going to formulate an argument designed to penalize those who have put in more work, at least have it make sense.

FinrodMacBeorn

Artanisul wrote: »

When games get an expansion that raises the level cap people do not get credit for xp earned while at the cap. It's been that way for quite a long time. The fact that in ESO people were able to level past 810 was a huge exception. Complaining now that you "earned" the extra levels even beyond 1000+ is just pain crazy. Wanting to be catapulted even further than what they already let you gain is entitlement, pure and simple....

Right, but in those games you were able to reach the new cap in 3-4 weeks by just playing the game (at least, e.g., in LOTRO). People with ample time just had the advantage for reaching it 2-3 weeks earlier - and afterwards, it was again a level playing ground for everybody for at least almost 1 year till the next expansion.

Asian grinders are of course a different story, but let's hope that ESO does not evolve into that direction ...

stefj68

IrishRonD wrote: »

My main is a CP1097 Dunmer Sorc Hybrid

My toon is hitting harder now and is dealing more damage, but on the downside, is taking more damage. I try for a 50/50 compromise between offense and defense. I'm not an uber-player, don't intend to be, but I want something that is challenging that I do not have to micromanage every time I log in and want to do something different.

not sure how you manage to hit harder, all my test show 25-45% dps lost... on my 18 toons

stefj68

albumoculus wrote: »

Overall there are 3 abilties I think are absurdly out of place
- Siphoning spells, 1500 magicka is just too much, in any Pve content with tons of ads there won't be any reason to even worry about magicka sustain, there are plenty of bosses with adds and spawnable adds throughout the fight so magicka sustain will simply be too easy
- Bloody renewal, same principle here as Siphoning spells, it's just far too lucrative and quite frankly I think it will be kinda boring, healers won't even be needed with their synergies in boss fights with adds, frankly I think you should half the amount for every stage, anyway as long as it's dealt with.
- Strategic Reserve, 50 health recovery for every 10 ultimate. Hello? 2500 health recovery altogether, combine that with major and minor fortitude, base health recovery and sets like The Troll king, you can reach absurd numbers of health recovery.
Now granted I haven't been on the PTS so I've actually not tries out any of these passives but I can already extrapolate the complaints.

agree on stragetic reserve

they other 2 needs to be tuned down, around 1k instead of 1500, don't forget that if they slot that they are loosing other nice and better slottable skills... magdk have some serious mag issue, this would help him... etc

stefj68

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

they always said curved after 810cp was 4x the cost... so i have 1210cp 400 over the cap, i really hope i get 810+1600 (4x400) with the new system...

if they leave me at 1210 lol at this current state i won't be able to do any vet trials cause im down to 55k on pts from 95k

stefj68

would have been nice that every skills you pick have a slottable effect when slotted, and a passive effect in general... so totally useless skills we have to pick, to unlock next one would have a benefits even if its not slotted...

not as great as the current skills with passive but a little something...

Nordic__Knights

Sju wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

demans to get whats been put on hold at half the rate as others just because we play the game more lol thats why we get in in the back side for being invested in their game gg good to know invest your time in an game your going to get fu*ked nice to know

Sju

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

demans to get whats been put on hold at half the rate as others just because we play the game more lol thats why we get in in the back side for being invested in their game gg good to know invest your time in an game your going to get fu*ked nice to know

I wish I knew to agree or disagree with whatever it is you're trying to convey here.

Nordic__Knights

Sju wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

I'll be pretty upset they give in to nonsense demands from people who think they shouldn't have to play the game to reach endgame level. Just adjust the cp on pts to 1200 next week. That's all we'll have to work with anyway, then they'll have a better plan when it goes live.

demans to get whats been put on hold at half the rate as others just because we play the game more lol thats why we get in in the back side for being invested in their game gg good to know invest your time in an game your going to get fu*ked nice to know

I wish I knew to agree or disagree with whatever it is you're trying to convey here.

for over 4 years i have been over cap my cp has been gained at an lower rate then others un capped just for playing more then them , now their changing xp needed per cp and im not going to get counted for all the xp i have yet what cp im at noe thats bs when they start the new system my cp should go off my xp gain over the last 4 years ive been held back from gaining cp
[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing and Profanity]

IrishRonD

stefj68 wrote: »

IrishRonD wrote: »

My main is a CP1097 Dunmer Sorc Hybrid

My toon is hitting harder now and is dealing more damage, but on the downside, is taking more damage. I try for a 50/50 compromise between offense and defense. I'm not an uber-player, don't intend to be, but I want something that is challenging that I do not have to micromanage every time I log in and want to do something different.

not sure how you manage to hit harder, all my test show 25-45% dps lost... on my 18 toons

All of my offense, except Weapon Crit, is about 50% better. The only thing that has changed between my Live toon and the PTS counterpart was the CP system. Now, I didn't do a super scientific test with training dummies, but against public dungeon bosses and world bosses. I defeated them much more quickly. Since I solo more than anything, I don't really keep up with dps ratings or what not, and don't have clue if this any good or just totally bad, but I was doing 15k in 25 seconds, according to the message that popped up. Normally, I'm around 10k in 30 seconds.

I don't run a min/max toon, as I run mostly solo, and play for my enjoyment. Min/maxing takes the game to a different level for me, one from relaxation to being OCD about having the best of the current best. I'm too OCD in IRL, and this game is an escape.

Nordic__Knights

IrishRonD wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

IrishRonD wrote: »

My main is a CP1097 Dunmer Sorc Hybrid

My toon is hitting harder now and is dealing more damage, but on the downside, is taking more damage. I try for a 50/50 compromise between offense and defense. I'm not an uber-player, don't intend to be, but I want something that is challenging that I do not have to micromanage every time I log in and want to do something different.

not sure how you manage to hit harder, all my test show 25-45% dps lost... on my 18 toons

All of my offense, except Weapon Crit, is about 50% better. The only thing that has changed between my Live toon and the PTS counterpart was the CP system. Now, I didn't do a super scientific test with training dummies, but against public dungeon bosses and world bosses. I defeated them much more quickly. Since I solo more than anything, I don't really keep up with dps ratings or what not, and don't have clue if this any good or just totally bad, but I was doing 15k in 25 seconds, according to the message that popped up. Normally, I'm around 10k in 30 seconds.

I don't run a min/max toon, as I run mostly solo, and play for my enjoyment. Min/maxing takes the game to a different level for me, one from relaxation to being OCD about having the best of the current best. I'm too OCD in IRL, and this game is an escape.

your playing on an hybrid ( new op playstyle ) you should be feeling the added buffs to damage your race now has, now what your seeing tho aint to much from new cp system us its not giving you that much like 1.0 is even at 1097 ( 810? only atm for pts? not 810+ on pc yet ) nor is 15k in 25 sec. OP youd be more like 8.5k on something with more health

olsborg

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Can you please put buffs into the Champion System to give builds more variety?

For example, it would be nice to have the option to spend CP to get access to a buff like Major Brutality on a Templar Archer without having to burn a 5 piece set, use a 2H, or chug potions. Thanks.

This, very much this.

Nordic__Knights

thank on this
NEW PLAYER ; hey man how long you been playing the game?
ME; 6 years
NEW PLAYER ; how far along are you in it ?
ME; 1/3rd of the way ( 1416cp) with 100% base game achievements, 92%% all dlc;s ,85% chapters, done
NEW PLAYER; how often you play
ME ; daily , i have 15k hrs into game

thats not going to sound good to the NEW player !!!!!!!!!!! lol go on keep it so we dont get whats been held back for so long and what you'll make us well make new players so faired to play an game where vet players are only 1/3rd the way into it after 6 years they wont even look at streams of it lol

katorga

You know, if CP2.0 truly is "horizontal" and not "vertical", then the rate of gain should not matter and should be just enough to provide a sense of virtual accomplishment and no more. If 6 year player gets bumped up from 1500cp to 2400 under new exp scales, so what, it is horizontal. If a brand new player gains as much CP in a year as it took a veteran player 5 years, so what. It is horizontal.

But it is vertical.

ealdwin

katorga wrote: »

You know, if CP2.0 truly is "horizontal" and not "vertical", then the rate of gain should not matter and should be just enough to provide a sense of virtual accomplishment and no more. If 6 year player gets bumped up from 1500cp to 2400 under new exp scales, so what, it is horizontal. If a brand new player gains as much CP in a year as it took a veteran player 5 years, so what. It is horizontal.

But it is vertical.

And that's the inherent problem with the new system.

It's vertical for a good portion beyond the current 810 CP cap. That means that all the players who are currently at the cap of the vertical progression will suddenly find themselves with more vertical progression ahead of them. Which runs counter to their intention of reducing the verticality of the current system.

ZOS should perhaps consider reducing the power gained through CP, and instead focus on introducing that power gain back into sets, passives, and skills if they are also going to pursue their current route with CP 2.0.

ealdwin

One suggestion I will make that I haven't heard yet.

I would ask ZOS to consider not releasing the new CP system with the next update.

Rather, they (ZOS) should consider an extended PTS testing cycle for just the CP system so that the final product is as good as it can be.

(Bear in mind, this is a suggestion that I think ZOS should consider, not a demand that they do it.)

silvereyes

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.

They do this sort of thing regularly, ever since Eric Wrobel left. It is known.

See also: removing Bosmer stealth, guild trader multi-bidding, not upgrading arena weapons when Perfected versions were released and Rapid Maneuvers alliance rank 5 requirement.

P.S. I know that the Rapid Maneuvers thing is basically fixed in U29 - which I'm ecstatic about. However, this doesn't undo the fact that it was a completely unforced error that they were warned about repeatedly during PTS.

killingspreeb16_ESO

ealdwin wrote: »

One suggestion I will make that I haven't heard yet.

I would ask ZOS to consider not releasing the new CP system with the next update.

Rather, they (ZOS) should consider an extended PTS testing cycle for just the CP system so that the final product is as good as it can be.

(Bear in mind, this is a suggestion that I think ZOS should consider, not a demand that they do it.)

This is what i hope they do too,extend their testing on CP system.

It's a feature that is going to stay in the game forever at this point,no reason to release it when still in alpha phase and risk to ruin the game for many.

Keep this system but improve it with the feedback.

And this is the most realistic (and logic)things to do if they can't fix the problem before the update goes live.
Better get it later polished than in one month full of problem followed by band-aid fixes like the first one.

Tigertron

Hey @ZOS_BrianWheeler I see where you are going with this and I like it.

As a DD I think the Staving Death sub constellation should be moved to the Fitness Constellation. At Least the passives. I don't know much about PvP so maybe Resilience needs to stay. But I'd move Tireless Discipline, Quick Recovery and then the three passives to Fitness. There isn't much for DD in that constellation and it would free up points in Warfare.

I also would swap Tireless Discipline with Quick Recovery and make Tireless Discipline reachable from both Tumbling and Quick Recovery.

Well if I ran the Zoo that's what I'd do.

majulook

Second week of testing new CP and no changes to it from the first week.

Some how I think that no matter what is said about issues or concerns with this "CP 2.0". What they put out week one is basically what were getting.

Jodynn

Honestly, Enlightenment and Experience hasn't mattered to me for about 2 or 3 years now, the fact that it matters now is nice.

I have most damage passives now, but I look forward to what they can add to this system to make more interesting builds like convert magic to fire damage, or hell even physical to fire and get +% fire damage.

anadandy

laufey wrote: »

I'm really not a fan of how the Craft tree is laid out. There are decent things tucked away behind high-cost but not very useful (or entirely unrelated) nodes, so you're essentially forced to drop CP into something pointless that you'll never slot just to unlock the things you actually want.

Completely agree. Why would my grand master crafter drop points into getting more inspiration just to get to Master Gatherer?