PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

AMeanOne

There are some good ideas in here if zos is unwilling to covert cp to your total xp gain in the new system. Capping cp below 3600 at first, or allowing you to spend points freely and not in the trees equally could be good solutions. But ultimately I think its very dumb that two players with the same total xp earned would be different cp levels.

Turtilla

An important point to, well, point out, is that, to the best of my knowledge, it has been confirmed that we will not get our CP reassigned according to our total XP gained.

This is a major slap to the face to many veteran players, and I will reiterate it, it feels like our hard work and XP gained are worthless to the devs. Please, please do not antagonize and alienate your endgame community. Best that I expect out of this the way it looks now is that many of them will quit (having talked to some, I already heard voices like "if this goes live like this, I am quitting").

You need way more than 1200 CP to be specced fully into damage, and to do anything challenging you probably also need to spec into survivability as well. From what I read, that caps out at over 2000 CP. This is a TON of grind for us. Sure, it is also a ton of grind for new players, but... we already did that grind.

Another solution to this is lowering the amount of CP that you need to slot into those passives to get the respective benefits. All that I mean is that it is a low blow to nerf old players like that, rolling them back to being halfway to what is the best level for raiding. Alternatively, you could lower the XP cost for the CP altogether, making it easier to get to 2000, 2500, 3000, etc. CP.

As it stands now, it looks, I am not gonna sugarcoat it, disrespectful and offputting. I may be getting too emotionally involved in this, and I know this is yet another comment that I am making in this thread, but I do love this game, and I would hate it if this decision made me quit it.

Jodynn

Get rid of the tree and just let us slot where we want, having to put into passives you don't want, are useless (inspiration at max level unless you're going to convert that to CP gain too ) or that just don't matter to you feels bad.

Also, A fire damage +% star would be amazing.

SgtNuttzmeg

Currently the active armor skills still all require 5 pieces of their corresponding pieces in order to activate. I think they should consider lowering this requirement to 4 pieces. I think most pvpers will opt towards a 4/3 build. It would be a shame if these skills fell out of use because of this requirement. They also need to consider lowering the aoe % mitigation from medium because it in conjunction with Major Evasion is too strong in PVP. The flat % mitigation heavy gets while under the effects of immovability also seems to be really strong in PVP.

Block mitigation also feels really high and block cost reduction feels too low in PvP. Combat feels like it will slow down and people won't die. Causing more performance issues.

Jackey

It appears that I need around 600 points in the blue passives to reach max power for PVP.
I also need ~200 points for the active stars.

That's 800*3=2400.

Is this intentional? 2400 CP of vertical progression?

Cireous

Inspired by your beautiful work, I woke up this morning with some potential ideas for future non-combat stars/constellations/iterations, if you want to take a look. :

• Increase the chance of finding an additional item inside Safeboxes by 25% with a small likelihood the item is a painting or furnishing recipe.
• Gives a 20% chance for a Dragon or Anchor-type event to drop 2 containers instead of 1.
• World bosses now have a 30% chance to drop style materials and/or alchemy reagents.
• Allows you to dismiss a companion to do a survey report once a day. You can only re-summon this specific companion again after the daily reset. At that time, the materials gathered from your survey report can be found in your mailbox.
• Grants survey nodes the same chance to yield furnishing materials as regular nodes.
• Doubles the character limit inside your homes.
• Doubles the collectible item limits within your homes.
• Grants extra furnishing slots for each type of home per stage:
  Stage 1: Inn = 10 extra slots
  Stage 2: Apartment = 30 extra slots
  Stage 3: Small Home =  50 extra slots
  Stage 4: Medium Home = 80 extra slots
  Stage 5: Large Home = 100 extra slots
  Stage 6: Manor = 200 extra slots
• When overheated and caught by a city guard, once per day, you may choose an option to be "Banned from the City," kicking you out of the town you are in for 20 minutes, but allowing you to keep all of your stolen items. (More info: When selecting this option, your screen turns black and your character wakes up outside a city entrance. If you try and enter the city again, you slam into an invisible wall, screen blackens again, and you wake up with nearby guards making snarky comments towards you. A timer can be seen on the bottom of your screen, letting you know when 20 minutes have passed, and you can enter the city again.)

Rungar

it has interesting elements but its still a tacked on albeit clever redeployment of various stat modifiers. It does appear it will be alot more performant and offer a l more choice but the design like its predecessor has no gameplay elements attached to it. You just get points and make choices as far as I can see. I would of abandoned the entire previous design.


Good Points

-the redefinition of base stats ( health/mag/stam/dmg/dmg reduction) was smart as this will automatically apply to lower end players and bring up the bottom making the cp system a lesser part of the overall power profile of every player since many of those values are now default. The new cp is really about half the old cp and the new default values.

-the choice system looks decent as there are actual choices to make. The regrouping into the 3 new groups is decent since you will no longer have to sacrifice combat abilities for non combat abilities. The crafting green tree and even the red tree are a great improvement over the former system in terms of non combat passives selection and general choices. There are actually interesting and strategic choices.

- it appears the new system will greatly reduce unnecessary checks and thus there is potential for improved performance.

- it has some longevity to it even though many will complain.

Bad Points

- players get half the cp system for free and don't know it so that's a missed opportunity. I would of spread most of those those bonuses over the first 600 cp with diminishing returns so players can feel the incremental improvement at low cp and then have it drop off dramatically but still reward with miniscule token amounts for medium cp.

- the cp system is still functionally the same as the old one albeit expanded. It consists of many of the same bonuses like the old one except its repackaged and now you have a few basic hard choices. I would of completely abandoned this in favor of a true specialization system or other unique interactive systems such as a utility slot on the ui or alternate abilities, preferably all the above. This is the game of questing and this system has zero quests associated with it.

-too many combat passives in warfare that will take a long time to achieve. I have no real issue with it since the entire cp system has been greatly reduced in overall power but i can see a lot of bad optics from vet players that don't want to grind the points out.

-lacks integration. No quests are associated with the cp system. There is nothing to collect. Its just a power distribution system.

Overall its a decent upgrade to the existing system.

first impressions. further evaluation required.

DoggedBark24

The UI in gamepad mode is much more zoomed in compared to the keyboard/mouse version, not sure if it's intentional or not but it makes navigating the constellations a tad more annoying

dhoward5b14_ESO

I strongly suggest upping people's CP based on their previously earned XP. I am CP 1400. The only thing I do in game now is trials (and daily writs), so only play 3 nights a week. I will not be grinding to increase my CP to 2100-ish to max out passives. Not upping my CP based on previous experience is similar to not upgrading my arena weapons I already had earned on vet (please no comments on this - just the way I felt) - and I left the game for 5 months because of that.

If we don't get credit for prior XP I will probably be gone for good, as will some of my trial guilds. I guess getting rid of high CP players is another way to level the difference between low and high CP players.

Nordic__Knights

i did an single skill ( sweeps) test on blood troll
live= 202820 with 16s to kill
pts= 136017 with 24s to kill

on live i was able to kill blood troll with mag having 33% mag left over on pts mag was gone before blood troll died making me hold off on last 2 cast of skill

on live im 798cp on pts im 810cp on same toon i dont get why tbh as everything but cp is same lvl skill wise and its not an templet toon

Turtilla

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

I strongly suggest upping people's CP based on their previously earned XP. I am CP 1400. The only thing I do in game now is trials (and daily writs), so only play 3 nights a week. I will not be grinding to increase my CP to 2100-ish to max out passives. Not upping my CP based on previous experience is similar to not upgrading my arena weapons I already had earned on vet (please no comments on this - just the way I felt) - and I left the game for 5 months because of that.

If we don't get credit for prior XP I will probably be gone for good, as will some of my trial guilds. I guess getting rid of high CP players is another way to level the difference between low and high CP players.

Yes! And this is much worse than the weapons (which one can refarm in a shorter time, and the nonperf in many cases weren't that much worse - although I was very annoyed at that decision too). But yeah, so, so agreed - they really need to reconsider this.

bluebird

Here's some perspective on endgame systems. Hopefully it will be helpful to see where CP 2.0 is better (?) and worse.

Linearly fixed progression paths
The problem is that CP 2.0 is trying to create a Skyrim-like system without Skyrim-like content. The linearly gated forced paths work when they all work towards the same purpose. NOT when they are arbitrary steps put between what you want. Take the constellations. They had paths (obviously that's what CP 2.0 is trying to emulate, since CP 1.0 didn't have such nonsense restrictions), but the trees themselves were very specialises. So that every step you took mattered in the overall theme of the tree.


The image below shows in white the MINIMUM number of CP you must put into the stars to progress (it takes more to max them out, but you need to commit the minimum show there to be able to progress past that path). Some of them are bulk-enabled CP stars meaning that they only have one stage and it takes 100cp to activate them (circles are active stars that need to be slotted; triangles are passives). I coloured the stars I would want to take on a crafter/gatherer, versus the ones I would want to take on a thief/looter. You can see that they have many unrelated stars between them that don't feel good to waste CP on just to get to the things you want.


Compare that to the Skyrim system where such gating and linear restrictions made sense because all the Lines and all the Stars related to . Or Blacksmithing. Or Pickpocketing. Not all of it together. Having the 9 separate constellations was NEVER the problem with CP 1.0 in the first place.


Forced linear progression works when every step builds upon a shared theme, like in Skyrim and in GW2. There are different coloured mastery points, which you can spend in specific categories only. But within those categories there are specialised trees that have a united purpose. Core Tyria (red) mastery points for example can be spent on Crafting, and every step in that tree is a move towards crafting. Green points relate to the jungles of Heart of Thorns expansion. Putting points in the glider tree allows me to reach parts of the map in the sky, then allow me to glide for longer, then allow me to turn invisible when gliding. Sensible stuff, sensibly arranged. People still need to choose what they want to get first, but the paths ensure that they are always moving towards what they want through every step.



Limited loadout - more choice or just more problems?
Rather than having passives that were unlocked, now there are some passives that are always unlocked, but there are also active abilities that you need to slot on a 4-slot-bar. Rather than having a good overall setup with CP 1.0 that isn't worth respeccing every time, now there will be a BiS loadout for every situation. The trial group with 3000cp that has ALL the passives maxed out ON TOP of the 4 specialised maxed out star abilities AND HAS additional maxed out abilities they can slot on demand will be the meta now. And people who only have 4 dps stars unlocked with a few points maybe left for passives will be SIGNIFICANTLY less desirable than now.

Diminishing returns in CP 1.0 ensured that there was a reasonable restriction on what was possible in every situation (respec costs, inconvenience). But now, with only 4 available slots and enough CP (the roof of which has been significantly inflated), players will be ready for any scenario. Having maxed-out setups for single-target high-pen scenario, for an aoe-heavy high-sustain scenario, and a tanky self-heal setup will be desirable, and switching between them will be - if not straight-up required - heavily favoured. Non-diminishing returns combined with the restricted slots will take choice away. Before, when dumping 40 extra cp into a star would only marginally increase it further, you had the choice to think about where you might put those to better use. But now, even though the bar makes it seem like you have choices, de facto 'must-haves' will be just as prevalent, or even more so.

WoW has long-since struggled with this knowledge and is aware of the gap this will cause. The Conduit and Soulbind system has a number of paths, some passives, and 3 activated effects that you can choose from a pool of acquired maxed out selection --- essentially very similar to the CP 2.0 idea. What they found was that good players had the whole selection of potential bonuses ready to go, and switched them out on an encounter-basis: min-maxing their performance on demand, which created concerns about the trickle-down effect this meta will have on the community (not to mention ESO which has AddOns for PC to automate such loadouts whereas consoles don't). To prevent this, they added a week-long cooldown for respeccing the Soulbinds and capped the switching of slotted Conduits per day. I'm not saying that was a good system, I'm just saying that the CP 2.0 direction isn't good either.


The splitting of champion points into 3 feels terrible now how limiting everything is, and the 4-slots-per-colour bar that requires active slotting is an unwelcome hassle. I play on PC, but I don't look forward to using an AddOn every time - slotting movement speed buff stars and damage stars when I'm farming World Bosses, but switching to my gathering loadout in the downtime while I wait, and switching to treasure-finding loadout when I see Chests or lurk in cities opening containers while waiting in the pledge queue.

I don't understand why you didn't keep most of the Craft tree as passives; and I don't see why you have a mix of passive and active performance-oriented stars, and why most of them are in BLUE only rather than spread out more evenly, and why you don't have diminishing returns, and why you thought that mashing 9 trees into 3 with predetermined paths was a better system than before. You also focused too much on the interface without thinking about whether it makes sense. Don't try to obsessively hang on to this (clearly nonsense) Warfare-Mage Craft-Rogue Resource-Warrior thing divide whatever, when other games' systems showed how to do it sensibly (and how not to). CP 2.0 seems to borrow from Skyrim and WoW only to come up with something worse.

simox

IMO greens should be mainly passives and blue/red less passives with more active ones, currently its kinda the other way around which doesnt make a whole lotta sense with their goal of horizontal progression.

otherwise its looking promising

ealdwin

@bluebird Agreed, the system reminds me of Skyrim's in a way, but in a more intertwined, conflicting(?) manner. If the goal with CP 2.0 was to offer more player choice while limiting the vertical progression we see in CP 1.0, then they kind of hit the mark, but also didn't.

What works, in my opinion, is the Champion Bar and the idea behind the slottable passives. This is what opens up the player choice but also has limits on what power is achievable (limiting power creep). Ideally, Max CP characters would have all the options for power open to them, but they would still have to choose which powers they want. Their advantage would be the choice. But, the "optimal" choices for a role would still be available at or below ~810 CP so that current Max CP players don't lose out on power when the switch happens to CP 2.0, but rather keep power and instead open more options. The problem, is that the power is all jumbled up amidst other options, so that the threshold between power and options is apparently higher than 810 CP.

My suggestion would be to take a page from Skyrim's book, and utilize multiple constellations. These could be the original 9 they were using, just refining what each offers. Or, use the idea of Skills from Skyrim's system (Or even look at Oblivion's skills for inspiration), combined with the slottable passives.



For example, consider if there were a "Destruction" Constellation like above (or maybe it's the "Apprentice" Sign). In this tree would be various passives that increase the aptitude of magical combat one has. In Skyrim's tree, there are 2 points on each Elemental Branch. Augmented Flames/Frost/Shock all increase the damage with the respective element by 25/50%. Intense Flames/Deep Freeze/Disintegrate then add further unique effects to those elemental damage types. If ZOS were to use these, those first "Augmented" points could be passives that just boost damage with those elements, and the second "Intense" points would be slottable stars. With 4 slots open for "Mage/Combat" passives, this would force a choice about where "power" comes from. Ideally, with ~270 CP one would be able to achieve enough power through this tree for the DD role to match their current power, but perhaps limited to only having enough for one elemental branch. As a player progresses past ~810 CP, they would open up those other options as well. With the continued limiting factor of only 4 slots for passives.

The basic idea would be find a way to simplify progression between points via specific trees surrounding a theme. That way CP 2.0 is more about accessing more variety of options.

I hope I conveyed that clearly, just had the idea after reading your post and haven't had time to dwell on it further. I may come back with a more refined and fleshed out suggestion.

GrimTheReaper45

DoggedBark24 wrote: »

The UI in gamepad mode is much more zoomed in compared to the keyboard/mouse version, not sure if it's intentional or not but it makes navigating the constellations a tad more annoying

oh god dont tell me that.... that was THE WORST PART about skyrim perk menu on console....

bluebird

Also, a few more notes:
CP levels are incredibly inflated for seemingly not much reason. Most games try to go the opposite direction (GW2 max level 80, 351 mastery points; WoW reduced max level from 120 to 60), meanwhile ESO is like: '3600 cHaMpIoN pOiNtS! gEnIuS! That will surely improve the system!'

The bulk-enabled stars are a major contributing factor, and they are also a terrible feeling tbh. You get gradual per-point bonuses in some, then stage-enabled stars for 10-25 points per stage, and then you hit a snag in the middle of your path that asks for 75 points to even the chance to do anything (as it's a slotted skill so even if you do unlock it, it won't be any use if you don't spend 1 of your 4 restricted options on that one. That's not very nice. 'Sooo for your next point, you will get... exactly nothing for 74 points (the next 224 CP level-ups).' Such a 'great' feeling to look forward to.

Also, the changes regarding stat balance is unrelated to the new cp system. The benefit of shifting the weight of CP to raw level-up stats is a good idea in narrowing the 0cp 810cp divide, but it's not due to the CP revamp itself. Just wanted to highlight the situation similar to when WoW players were ascribing the benefits of a time-needed-to-reach-max-level-reduction to the stat-squish when WoW could have easily kept the old level cap while speeding up the rate of xp acquisition - so the good thing that happened alongside the change without being reliant on it shouldn't be considered as an argument for the other change.

That brings up the point that the actual number of champion points has nothing to do with how long it takes players to max them out. 3600cp really just sounds like you determined a timeframe how long you want players to grind and set the numbers based on that. You could easily do the opposite; to reduce total number of cp while making each point feel more impactful (rather than 75-100 sinks, and a bloated inflated system) while increasing the time it takes to reach a new level. That's essentially what WoW did with their 120-60 switch and it made each levelup feel much more impactful and much more manageable at first glance too. You should be able to set long-term goals for your players without skyrocketing numbers into the stratosphere.

I brought up the somewhat arbitrary and compulsive-seeming 3 constellation divide that you're trying to force on CP 2.0. But just to reiterate: function is more important than form for any endgame system. Look at gw2, it's a boring drop-down menu but it works. And people don't consider 'Woah that game had such pretty and colour-coded and lore-relevant endgame grind, I love it!' when they evaluate progression systems. You should really revise whether the 3 colours are even necessary going forward (Skyrim had Skill points, not separate skill points for magics and crafting and whatnot), and whether the bar should try to force the mandatory 4-slots-per-colour only on each constellation regardless of their universal utility or combat benefit. And also perhaps consider whether the 3 compiled trees are better than the 9 we had before (I'd say they aren't, and clearly you feel the need to add subconstellations within the constellations so it seems way more contrived).

ealdwin wrote: »

@bluebird Agreed, the system reminds me of Skyrim's in a way, but in a more intertwined, conflicting(?) manner. If the goal with CP 2.0 was to offer more player choice while limiting the vertical progression we see in CP 1.0, then they kind of hit the mark, but also didn't.

Yeah, sounds like we agree on most things!

mc_gijoe

anyone using gamepad mode that had their CP screen zoomed in too far to see the whole tree? I changed the resolutions on the settings and it was still zoomed too far in. i had to scroll with the controller to see different parts of the tree. Maybe this is just a bug. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Raegwyr

Was the decision to not recalculate our gained xp from old cp to new cp again a Rich idea? He already shown us that he disrespects time and commitment of end game players with decision to not upgrade vMA weapons gained on vet to perfect version but this is whole new level.
I have cp1300+ on live ut behind this number there is milions of xp gained through years. Now you want to tell me they will reduce my power to below current 810cp and new players will gain the same rank as mine by gathering less then half of xp i gained? It is not fair, it is stupid and truly another slap in the face from zos devs.
If you want our respect, do your job properly and value the time and love we put into this game. Unless you want to kill your end game scene, then you will achieve it at some point with this attitude

ForfiniteStories

If it's not broken; don't fix it. CP 1.0 is fine.

phantasmalD

That's always how CP extention always worked. Back when it was a regular thing the lower CPs would always become cheaper, allowing players not at the cap to catch up slightly faster. And nobody ever made a fuss about that.
Prob cause the veteran players were already at the cap.

Raegwyr wrote: »

new players will gain the same rank as mine by gathering less then half of xp i gained? It is not fair, it is stupid and truly another slap in the face from zos devs.

Lmao, so what should people at 3600CP feel, seeing the hundreds of people wanting to get credited for a hard grind they didn't do?
You didn't earn anything more than what you are already credited for; just because a pair of jeans I bought a week ago goes on a sale I'm not suddenly entitled for a second pair of jeans for free.

Considering that 80% of the skills and effects seem to be bugged right now it's pretty hard to tell what the actual power difference right now. Hopefully they fix it for next week.

Imo raising the ceiling so steeply was the main mistake, should have done a smaller jump, like up to 1k or 1.1k first.

TheImperfect

I think the new CP system is great so far. I will be much lower powered than before but it gives more to strive for. I was hoping to get into doing more veteran content but it might wait. I managed adequately with a maxed character on pts in the Cauldon while trying new gear. I love the star that increased movement speed, I was running around like the flash, felt very fun. I can see locking some useful stars behind things that might not be as useful to some might be frustrating but I think it will feel good when hitting that goal and means people will have some things unlocked that they might have skipped over and actually realise are useful.

TheImperfect

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

I strongly suggest upping people's CP based on their previously earned XP. I am CP 1400. The only thing I do in game now is trials (and daily writs), so only play 3 nights a week. I will not be grinding to increase my CP to 2100-ish to max out passives. Not upping my CP based on previous experience is similar to not upgrading my arena weapons I already had earned on vet (please no comments on this - just the way I felt) - and I left the game for 5 months because of that.

If we don't get credit for prior XP I will probably be gone for good, as will some of my trial guilds. I guess getting rid of high CP players is another way to level the difference between low and high CP players.

I don't want to make you angry and I'm not arguing. I don't know if you pug or run with a guild but if with a guild then the people you run with are in the same boat and will be in similar state to you. If pug that's less certain but there are probably more players in upper middling levels like CP 1000 to CP 2000 than the upper high end and if you are all collaborating then it should be OK. I know there are salty nasties but honestly you get them anyway.

DonGodJoe

Altyrann wrote: »

After some quick testing:

- The replacement of jump points with clear stages is helpful
- It's not immediately obvious how the unlocking along branches works, could use more signposting
- Some of the values look strange at first glance (not sure if this is just tooltips or actual impacts)
- On an 810 CP template, it feels like there's lots more you'd want to spend in the blue, a little more you might want in red and almost nothing impactful at all in green, so the even split of CP to spend feels a bit off

Also not sure how far along the current balance pass is, but damage on a like for like (gear/skill/rotation) with what felt like sensible CP allocation was massively down on live (over 30k DPS lower)

Almost nothing in green? honestly no clue how you could get so many "agree" .. i found quite some useful stuff in green i would grabbed immediately .. after all its a handy-crafty-helpful tree.. can't everything be just dps dps dps

Raegwyr

phantasmalD wrote: »

That's always how CP extention always worked. Back when it was a regular thing the lower CPs would always become cheaper, allowing players not at the cap to catch up slightly faster. And nobody ever made a fuss about that.
Prob cause the veteran players were already at the cap.

Raegwyr wrote: »

new players will gain the same rank as mine by gathering less then half of xp i gained? It is not fair, it is stupid and truly another slap in the face from zos devs.

Lmao, so what should people at 3600CP feel, seeing the hundreds of people wanting to get credited for a hard grind they didn't do?
You didn't earn anything more than what you are already credited for; just because a pair of jeans I bought a week ago goes on a sale I'm not suddenly entitled for a second pair of jeans for free.

Currently if you have 1300cp on live that means you earn around 615mil xp - this is the value that you have. In new system 1300cp is around 140mil. That means by not calculating values again you lose 475 mil xp. This is equivalent of 1100cp account from zero to that value on live.

As for ppl who already are at the cap (less then 20 of them) they reach the point where they no longer gain xp. Not a single one, null, nada. They already in this system are "loosing" by not gaining xp but truth be told, they are at the max cap for the game (So like a genius kid in school which score 100 on test together with someone who was just smart but not genius, he got 100 because of the system limitation, not because of amount of work/talent he possesed. Thats a flaw for systems with cap). A lot of them would probably be milions xp above their current value if not the cap. But they lost literally nothing during the transition as they are also capped for the new system.
Players like me, who are not capped are loosing milions of xp that need to regrind again to reach the old xp value.

rnklippel

Another thought after reading the latest comments: In the old system, we had this theoretical 3600 maximum because we had 36 stars and we could allocate 100 points in each.

If we're going to have a new system, it doesn't necessarily have to follow the same parameters. You don't need to distribute the perks along all those 3600 points. It can be less. Each perk can require less points to unlock and the future grind won't take so much time.

In 4 years of playing, I've leveled my main account to CP 1387 and my secondary account to CP 890. If I had spent, on my main account, the amount of time I've put on my second account, I would be at CP 1592 now, only 205 higher than my current CP.

You said the amount of xp gained after 1200 will be the same as we have now. According to the current formula, it means that if I spend the same amount of time I did until now, in another 4 years I will be around CP 2080 on my main account, still far away from the speculated end-game goals people are calculating. That's a bit dauting.

ealdwin

rnklippel wrote: »

Another thought after reading the latest comments: In the old system, we had this theoretical 3600 maximum because we had 36 stars and we could allocate 100 points in each.

If we're going to have a new system, it doesn't necessarily have to follow the same parameters. You don't need to distribute the perks along all those 3600 points. It can be less. Each perk can require less points to unlock and the future grind won't take so much time.

In 4 years of playing, I've leveled my main account to CP 1387 and my secondary account to CP 890. If I had spent, on my main account, the amount of time I've put on my second account, I would be at CP 1592 now, only 205 higher than my current CP.

You said the amount of xp gained after 1200 will be the same as we have now. According to the current formula, it means that if I spend the same amount of time I did until now, in another 4 years I will be around CP 2080 on my main account, still far away from the speculated end-game goals people are calculating. That's a bit dauting.

Agreed. Consider that most of the perks require increments of 10 to reach each stage, or even 50 points to unlock. Is there really any reason that it needs to be 3600? With fair ease the number of CP could be reduced to 360, with only one point needed for each stage on some points. It would at least reduce the number of times one would have to click a "+" or "-" button.

ApostateHobo

rnklippel wrote: »

Another thought after reading the latest comments: In the old system, we had this theoretical 3600 maximum because we had 36 stars and we could allocate 100 points in each.

If we're going to have a new system, it doesn't necessarily have to follow the same parameters. You don't need to distribute the perks along all those 3600 points. It can be less. Each perk can require less points to unlock and the future grind won't take so much time.

In 4 years of playing, I've leveled my main account to CP 1387 and my secondary account to CP 890. If I had spent, on my main account, the amount of time I've put on my second account, I would be at CP 1592 now, only 205 higher than my current CP.

You said the amount of xp gained after 1200 will be the same as we have now. According to the current formula, it means that if I spend the same amount of time I did until now, in another 4 years I will be around CP 2080 on my main account, still far away from the speculated end-game goals people are calculating. That's a bit dauting.

Another 4 years to basically get back to how strong our characters are now jeeeesssuuussss. If it goes live like that it's going to be a disaster.

AlnilamE

AMeanOne wrote: »

There are some good ideas in here if zos is unwilling to covert cp to your total xp gain in the new system. Capping cp below 3600 at first, or allowing you to spend points freely and not in the trees equally could be good solutions. But ultimately I think its very dumb that two players with the same total xp earned would be different cp levels.

Raegwyr wrote: »

Was the decision to not recalculate our gained xp from old cp to new cp again a Rich idea? He already shown us that he disrespects time and commitment of end game players with decision to not upgrade vMA weapons gained on vet to perfect version but this is whole new level.
I have cp1300+ on live ut behind this number there is milions of xp gained through years. Now you want to tell me they will reduce my power to below current 810cp and new players will gain the same rank as mine by gathering less then half of xp i gained? It is not fair, it is stupid and truly another slap in the face from zos devs.
If you want our respect, do your job properly and value the time and love we put into this game. Unless you want to kill your end game scene, then you will achieve it at some point with this attitude

But that's exactly what happens now.

I have 1418 CP and I have played since launch.

Someone who started playing two years ago (after the cap and XP curve got implemented) and got the 1418 has done so with way less experience than what I needed to get there.

That is how the catch-up mechanic works.

They never "recalculated" CP when they introduced/adjusted the cap. They won't do it now.

What I want to know is what the XP curve is going to be like. It takes me 1.1 million XP to earn a CP right now. What will it be under the new system?

Turtilla

AlnilamE wrote: »

What I want to know is what the XP curve is going to be like. It takes me 1.1 million XP to earn a CP right now. What will it be under the new system?

They said it'll be the same. Which means that getting to level cap, or to any remotely endgame applicable level will take YEARS of mindless, stupid grind.

People wouldn't beg for their CP to be recalculated if the jump wasn't made from 810 to 3600. In the past the cap was raised by 30 points, not 2790. That's what pisses the ppl off, they stopped raising it for over a year (2, if I am not mistaken). Gradual increases let vet players remain vet (getting 30 more CP was not as big a grind) and let new players catch up to that.

If they don't want to recalculate our new CPs, maybe they shouldn't raise the cap by this much. Maybe they should make the bonuses worth fewer CPs and raise the cap to their magical 1200. And then the next patch to 1300 or something, and either change the prices of bonuses or add more of them. Or they could make the XP required much lower until the 2000+ which is the actual minimum for a proper raiding toon.
But the worst they can do is yet again antagonize half of their community (yeah, I know it's not a half, the endgame population that it hits the hardest is small and ZOS seems not to care about what we say at all - and I am just stating a sad fact here. Please prove me wrong ).

Firstmep

Can you please make the lines between connected stars more visible? It can be hard to tell what leads to what, even when requirements are met.