PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

ajkb78

There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether existing cp will be scaled to the new system based on total XP earned. The live stream kind of gave the impression they would not be. It would be really helpful to have an official answer to this.
If they will not be, it will lead to the situation where players with identical total XP earned will have different champion levels, which seems to fail a basic fairness test. The *only* thing that should define your CP level is total XP earned, whether they were earned under the old or new system.

Turtilla

Sju wrote: »

Turtilla wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

I can't believe people are expecting to be pushed to endgame level when this hits. A lot of us grinded vet ranks, we all grinded to 810. What makes you think you should get a push now? Play the game or don't, but it should remain 1:1. They'll make the grind a little easier, not just hand you the reward for nothing.

When they added CP instead of VR, did they reduce your dps by 30k? And reduce your survivability at the same time, because those points are now shared? Because that's what's happening.

People wouldn't mind an extra 1500 cp to grind, but as things stand, we LOSE stuff we already had with 810 cp. We are objectively worse off in performance AND in survivability AND utility. People aren't asking for free stuff when new things get added; they are asking for the things they have right now not to be taken away, only to have to regrind the same thing with worse results overall in the end.

It hasn't even been a full day of actual testing and everyone is already saying their dps is gone, the system is crap... Parses we had back in vet ranks were live boss tests, didn't do them, also didn't care then as I was still questing the entire map instead of obsessing over an number.
That is exactly what people are asking for-free power without putting work in to earn it.

No, people are asking for the devs not to put away their power that they earned with hard work and that might now end up in the rubbish bin.

Like I said, not even a full day of testing, not to mention reports of parsing being broken on PTS and everyone losing it.

I'm not talking about the dps, I'm talking about the CP (going from way above max to way below max feels very unfair). Additionally, yes, it's day 1 of PTS, but this thread is for feedback, and without feedback they'll just let this go live. If we don't like something, we're gonna be vocal about it. And yes, both nerfing the damage and essentially invalidating ppl's effort put into getting the raw total XP is oofie.

phantasmalD

rnklippel wrote: »

I have a lot of thoughts, but one thing I'd like to quickly put here is that I think we should be able to freely alocate our champion points in any of the trees, not 1/3 in each. That way players that are at cap now could have their damage characters fully focused on damage, their crafters fully focused on crafting, their thieves, etc all working with what we already have now, and not having to grind I don't know how many more months to come back closer to their current situation.

Another option could be mantain the exponential aspect of jump points, so instead of spending 10 points to unlock each stage in a 50 points tree, we could have for example: spend 4, 6, 9, 13 and 18 to unlock each one. This way, new players would be able to start unlocking things more quickly and wouldn't be so far behind people with much more CP.

I was thinking the same. I don't see the point of forcing people to diversify, if the passives are balanced properly than spreading your points out will be the natural and optimal decision. No need to limit people so agressively.

This would solve the seemingly high entry cost of 2700 CP as you could get a ""full build"" for much less CP.

GrimTheReaper45

Biggest problems I see

Horizontal progression kicks if far to late because of the amount of combat relevant non slotted passives.

Theres no reason why we have to pick combat related passives because if your a high enough level you have points to purchase them all and they all benefit you some way in combat. In the old system you had to choose the most relevant ones because we couldn't ever purchase the majority of them.

Josira

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Are battlegrounds now cp activated? If not that’s really unfair to the bg community to not be able to enjoy the new systems that years were spent making

oh god please no. please nononono. this is what makes low cp pvp actually playable.

DigitalTemerity

I don't have even 850 CP yet. I have 767, but I have been able to supercharge two different characters with the new CP system and unlock parts of it to gain access to other bonuses I wanted without any trouble. There are options to play in Cyrodiil and IC with No CP that even things up. I think this is going to cause people with lower levels of CPs to refuse to play in CP PvP. It may even be wise to remove CP from PvP entirely, but I am certain others will disagree with that.

I often don't play in CP as it is in order to get a fair shot at surviving battles. With the damage some players can do in PvP it really doesn't make much difference though, and to be honest, I'm not a PvP player, but I have to go into PvP for events and such.

Overall my opinion of the new CP system is that it is great, and that I really like it. To me changes and updating a game to add features or adapt it to current systems is important to keep the game interesting. If I wanted to play with old technology I would stick to other MMOs that keep the exact same look and feel they have had from the 80's. I don't enjoy that experience. This isn't the 80's anymore, and technology has come a long way. Things change with time, and not only do developers have to adapt to changing times, but so do gamers even if they don't want to.

If a game stays exactly the same for years on end it will die. People aren't going to keep playing the same old content or style forever. Change to me is a good thing. To players that don't want the game to be updated with changing technology they can go play an MMO that keeps the 80's appeal if that's what they want. In my view, this change will draw more players into the fold just like last year's changes should have. Being able to actually role play a vampire and it have the feel of vampirism was a welcome addition as far as I'm concerned.

Elo106

I like that new players will have it easier to catch up to high CP. I love the need to slot certain Passives makes vertical progression a thing.

BUT having to grind so much CP to max out on combat effectiveness is just bad. The less "power" gained from non slotable passives the better because it closes the gap between low CP and high CP. New players wouldnt be at such a big disadvantage and we could finally do away with the CP/noCP divide in content.

Its extremely discouraging getting to "max level" level 50 just to find out gear maxes at CP 180 ... once you reach the "max level" of 180 you grind yet again to max out your combat effectiveness...

ketsparrowhawk

Sju wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Are battlegrounds now cp activated? If not that’s really unfair to the bg community to not be able to enjoy the new systems that years were spent making

Nobody is forcing you to stay in BGs, you're at fault for limiting yourself the experience.

The BG community does not want CP.

MrZeDark

Starlock wrote: »

I am unfortunately excluded from being able to test anything, but skimming through some of the comments about forced pathing for taking stars is concerning. I didn't even notice the super faint lines in the presentation, but apparently players are forced to take points in X, Y, and Z, to get to W?

That's not choice, nor horizontal progression. It's fixed, forced progression that strips away character uniqueness and identity. Having some forced progression can make sense for some things, particularly sub-constellations. But otherwise? It should be an open system.

You're not really seeing it if you can't get your hands on it.

From my perspective, what I see is 4 branches within one, plus a cubby of slot'ables. Like in the blue tree, if you go straight up it appears to be more Crit-centric, if you go top right it appears to be more %dmg modifier to all dmg types, if you go top left it focuses on healing, and if you go straight down its utility. While there being this pocket of stats on the right.

So right now my Vertical progression, collects DMG Modifiers and Crit. However with my CP level, I am able to horizontal aim for better heals, or more utility, or (within the purple constellations) higher alternative dmg chances or better mitigation.

The vertical vs horizontal is now you can CHASE your dmg vs utility and mitigation - this also applies to CHASE your healing vs More DMG, Utility, Mitigation. As now you can climb vertically and max out your dmg, but your slow horizontal progression will be about figuring out how to stay alive or what else to bring to the table. Alternatively you can slow your vertical DPS/Healing growth to be more comfy in taking DMG or bringing more utility.

It's there, Vertical vs Horizontal. It just depends on CP level and which way you want to grow first - as you have limited points to spend.

They also did explain how this beta of CP2.0 is limited right now, as they have yet to add more of the flavor they intend to scale out into. I expect we'll see modifications within PTS to early Live, that implement better scaling, maybe even more constellations (like the purple ones).

oscarovegren

Dont let that 2500 health recovery from keeping your ultimate at 500 go through to live! Just dont for balance reasons. We dont need an even tankier meta

ectoplasmicninja

The visuals of the trees are confusing to me - the background art stars blend in with the actual stars and I can't see the connecting lines clearly. It leads to a lot of hovering to see what is part of the tree and what isn't. The colour distinction between passives and slottable stars is unclear. This could all be improved easily.

The gating of some stars behind others is a shame. At the very least I would like to see more starting points to give us cheaper routes to get to certain stars, because my master crafter being railroaded into putting points into a star that gives increased inspiration in order to get to stars like Plentiful Harvest is the opposite of choice. Also, the presence of mitigation stars as well as damage stars all in Warfare seems odd and makes it extra difficult to spread my points out. I understand the desire to make us sacrifice something for something else but it makes one tree extremely desirable and the other two less so. (I am CP1172 for context.)

I have not tested on target dummies as I hear they are bugged, but just killing mobs in Spellscar I clearly do less damage. I have more health, more stam, more mag, more recovery, 1k more spell damage, and 12% less crit, but my character is evidently feeling the loss of other bonuses that I am not able to see in my character screen. I haven't done a trial or dungeon yet, so I can't tell how different my performance will be. For now it doesn't feel like a gutting, but it is definitely a loss.

laurajf

rnklippel wrote: »

I have a lot of thoughts, but one thing I'd like to quickly put here is that I think we should be able to freely alocate our champion points in any of the trees, not 1/3 in each. That way players that are at cap now could have their damage characters fully focused on damage, their crafters fully focused on crafting, their thieves, etc all working with what we already have now, and not having to grind I don't know how many more months to come back closer to their current situation.

Another option could be mantain the exponential aspect of jump points, so instead of spending 10 points to unlock each stage in a 50 points tree, we could have for example: spend 4, 6, 9, 13 and 18 to unlock each one. This way, new players would be able to start unlocking things more quickly and wouldn't be so far behind people with much more CP.

This 100%. I have a character who I really don't like doing combat with because I just don't find the skills to be much fun. Instead of letting her sit there unused in my character screen, I'd love to be able to spend most of my points on the green tree, using her for crafting, harvesting, finding chests, fishing, etc. She doesn't need offensive or defensive trees because she's not doing anything that requires it. She only needs to kill some overland mobs who are in the way.

I'm also not fond of having to spend points in things I have no interest in just to get to something I am interested in, but if we could spend more points in whatever tree we choose, then it wouldn't be as big of a deal because we can get to what we want faster without having to divvy up our points into things that don't fit our characters and/or our individual play styles.

Also have to agree with others in that it's not user friendly to have to hover over each star to see what it does, and it can also be difficult to see the most efficient path to use to get to something I want. There are so many stars that by the time I get to the end of looking at them all, I've forgotten half of what they were, where they were, and have to start looking all over again. Now, that might just be my age, but still. Makes figuring out where to put something a bit difficult without creating a chart for myself, which I shouldn't have to do.

Other than the above, I like the concept. It's definitely better than the current one in many ways.

Nerhesi

I want to throw in support for saying that passive bonuses that you dont need to slot should NOT affect pvp/pve damage output. Maybe crafting, gathering etc...

But we dont want the system where 900 is ok, but 2000+ is what is needed to get another 5% damage, mitigation, etc..

MinnesotaKid

I was really excited for this new system.... was....

IMHO one of 2 things needs to happen here. Either allow us to spend our CP w/o the gating mechanic OR allow us to use our CP fully within a single tree. Otherwise this will just be a game killer for a lot of people who have worked very hard to get where they're at.

karekiz

Reduce the cost of Passive lines and add more ranks to active. Some stars need re-arranged. Red Tree for instance should start with Passive HP and link off to Block / Active HP. Not everyone gets high benefit from block in dungeons, but literally everyone benefits from more raw HP.

Red tree itself feels randomly put together.

This would greatly reduce the over all points needed.

Ragnaroek93

MrZeDark wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

I am unfortunately excluded from being able to test anything, but skimming through some of the comments about forced pathing for taking stars is concerning. I didn't even notice the super faint lines in the presentation, but apparently players are forced to take points in X, Y, and Z, to get to W?

That's not choice, nor horizontal progression. It's fixed, forced progression that strips away character uniqueness and identity. Having some forced progression can make sense for some things, particularly sub-constellations. But otherwise? It should be an open system.

You're not really seeing it if you can't get your hands on it.

From my perspective, what I see is 4 branches within one, plus a cubby of slot'ables. Like in the blue tree, if you go straight up it appears to be more Crit-centric, if you go top right it appears to be more %dmg modifier to all dmg types, if you go top left it focuses on healing, and if you go straight down its utility. While there being this pocket of stats on the right.

So right now my Vertical progression, collects DMG Modifiers and Crit. However with my CP level, I am able to horizontal aim for better heals, or more utility, or (within the purple constellations) higher alternative dmg chances or better mitigation.

The vertical vs horizontal is now you can CHASE your dmg vs utility and mitigation - this also applies to CHASE your healing vs More DMG, Utility, Mitigation. As now you can climb vertically and max out your dmg, but your slow horizontal progression will be about figuring out how to stay alive or what else to bring to the table. Alternatively you can slow your vertical DPS/Healing growth to be more comfy in taking DMG or bringing more utility.

It's there, Vertical vs Horizontal. It just depends on CP level and which way you want to grow first - as you have limited points to spend.

They also did explain how this beta of CP2.0 is limited right now, as they have yet to add more of the flavor they intend to scale out into. I expect we'll see modifications within PTS to early Live, that implement better scaling, maybe even more constellations (like the purple ones).

None of that is alternative, it's just flat out better to have as much enabled as possible, especially in PvP there all stats (healing, mitigation, damage and sustain) are equally relevant. That's not horizontal progression, that's flat out vertical progression.

tmbrinks

A couple of my personal observations... I've read some of the comments above, but not all.

1. It appears that we need to be about CP 1300/1400 to maximize our effectiveness in our role under the new system. If the corresponding changes to the XP scaling make this a similar "grind" to to getting to 810/900 ish CP as the current CP 1.0 system. I think that is acceptable.

2. I like that gaining more CP will allow you to spec more into off-role stats. That said, I'm at nearly 2k CP on live, and when playing around on the PTS, I still can't spec into fully both heals and DPS on the PTS. I couldn't do this on Live anyways with the 810 cap. It's nice that I have the option to do so in the future, but it requires an absurd amount of CP to do so. I think that gives some incentive to 'grind" out the CP.

Min/Maxers are obviously going to want to get 'all the CP' to make them as strong and tanky as possible, and I see the disadvantage of that for things like PVP and score-pushing end-game PVE are going to encourage that grind. This could end up hurting those communities and further limiting players' entries into the end-game community.

3. To combat part of the above, I would suggest that we bring back diminishing returns Not as harshly as they were implemented in the current CP system. But, for example, in a star that gave 3% mitigation for each 10 CP spent in it... for a total of 15% at maximum. Instead of a flat 3%, it's set up so the first 10 CP gives 5% mitigation, the next 10 gives 4%, then 3, 2, 1. You get to the same 15% maximum if the star is filled, but it's more heavily weighted at the beginning. (This is a linear diminishing return, rather than the exponential diminishing return of the old CP system). This would allow "lower-CP" accounts to get most of the benefits of using the stars by putting 30 or 40 points into the system. But those at higher CP would be able to get just that little bit extra by earning more CP. I feel like this would provide some semblance of vertical progression for end-game players, without being overly restrictive to lower-level players.

4. The arguments that I've seen that says "We need 2700 CP" to get all the stats is disingenuous to me. We've not been able to "get all the stats" previously (other than the first few months of CP 1.0, when the game was a grindfest), so I don't think the expectation should be that we "get all the stars" on the new system. Yes, the system allows for it. But our role-specific CP seems to be leveled to about CP1300 in the new system, with optional CP above that is fine if the XP curve is adjusted to make CP1300 be about the same as CP900 is currently I would like to spec into both healing and dps on my healer, and in CP 1.0 I was somewhat able to do that because of diminishing returns. Which is again why I think they should bring some of that back in CP 2.0 instead of the linear increases.

Again, these are my opinions.

Also, these changes are giving a DPS loss, and I'm okay with that change as long as content is adjusted to compensate. Honestly, the only thing I think that could use an adjustment is the time for speed run in vSS (to 35 minutes from 30) and the health of the eternal servant on the final HM should be adjusted to about 9m health from 11.3m to accomodate for the dps losses. In my opinion, all other trifectas are more than accomplishable with a 10-15% reduction in dps, and we'll get to see more mechanics (which I think is one of ZoS' goals with this change). Honestly, 100k parses and the levels of DPS we have have made so much content irrelevant, that I'm really okay with a reduction as long as the few pieces of content that require that level of DPS are adjusted accordingly (and I think that only includes vSS speed run time, and vSS Eternal Servant Health)

Thanks for reading.

fxeconomisteb17_ESO

Some things to point out.
1. The new version looks more interesting as a concept. Not as pretty as the Path of Exile version, but still it forces you to take some paths.
2. Interface is clunky. I would like to see star titles on the picture, when zoomed in.
3. Warfare bonuses are not too much. I just can't see anything like Master-At-Arms, Elemental Expert, Mighty, Thaumaturge - these had a top of 25% and now there's what, 10% ? Doesn't mean anything to me.
4. Remove the three classes of points. Make all points usable in WHICHEVER tree we want.
5. As another player put it, rather have a single set of abilities that can be slotted, so force players to choose overall, instead of offering options to activate within each tree. This was probably one of the problems of the current system - everyone would just invest in the same stuff, get the same buffs and that's it. But with a single set of abilities to be slotted, that can be taken from any tree - say 5 or 6 total instead of 12... - it gives more meaning. The player will think before being the best thief, the best damager, the best tank or a jack of all trades.

Jodynn

First order of business, Damage Dealing:

You are taking away increases of damage from 20% or so and giving a small amount of spell damage or magicka and 10% on ST or AoE or DoT which ST and AoE.
You are taking away a lot of crit from mulitple sources, but you aren't really moving away from crit because it's the only thing that gives percentage gained on all abilities, so you're just.. reducing damage globally.

These two points will result in around a 20k loss.

You are taking away Light Attack damage and adding elemental status effect 150% chance of proccing, which I love but.. Giant reduction of damage; and I'm a MagDK so for other classes it will hurt even more but most of us around 10k.

This is going to result in a damage dealt reduction of around 30%.
Testing crit based builds I get around 70k, non crit it's a bit less.
If this is your goal, great job. If not, you should look into balancing with live.

Edit:
It's mostly 65k not 70k

majulook

So PTS is a 5 week cycle before the patch is released to live?

They been working on this for 2 years and from reading this thread a lot of it does not seem to work.

Does anyone think it will be working when implemented on Live?

quirky_unicorn

After fooling around with the new CP system for a while and trying out a few different setups for toons, I have to say that although there is huge benefits for the blue and red tree for high CP people, perhaps more than necessary considering the flip side for newer players, the benefits for high CP in the green tree are pitiful.

The higher your CP, the better your QoL should be, that's where I would like to see the MOST benefit. One, because it's not such a slap in the face to lower level players compared to dps and survivability related skills, but also because I love crafting and housing and running around like a track star and I spend more time in game these days (after 6 years playing ESO) making my homes look pretty and harvesting than I do rehashing quest lines or the same old dungeons.

Obviously, combat prowess is still important and there should be SOME benefits to being high CP in those areas, but why is it that the QoL things take it on the chin? I could have one toon that runs fast, one that harvests well, one that gets all the furnishing plans, etc., but I think the option to have ONE toon that could swap those things in as you like would be better and it seemed like that was the idea originally, but turned out not to be the case for the green tree in the end? I had to waste so many points on things I didn't care one ounce about (like wayshrine cost reduction) to get to expensive things I did care about (and that was the cheaper way!) that I couldn't even put a lot of points into the 4 things I "valued most" let alone have "Extra" things to swap in and out.

One thing about the green tree that I did think was a good move (see it's not allll whining!) was that there were ways for newer players with less CP points to get extra gold, which is helpful for newer players. Lots of new players often complain about not being able to earn enough gold to buy things they need, etc. but having the extra gold from merchants and such easily accessible in the green tree was nice to see.

GrimTheReaper45

tmbrinks wrote: »

A couple of my personal observations... I've read some of the comments above, but not all.

1. It appears that we need to be about CP 1300/1400 to maximize our effectiveness in our role under the new system. If the corresponding changes to the XP scaling make this a similar "grind" to to getting to 810/900 ish CP as the current CP 1.0 system. I think that is acceptable.

2. I like that gaining more CP will allow you to spec more into off-role stats. That said, I'm at nearly 2k CP on live, and when playing around on the PTS, I still can't spec into fully both heals and DPS on the PTS. I couldn't do this on Live anyways with the 810 cap. It's nice that I have the option to do so in the future, but it requires an absurd amount of CP to do so. I think that gives some incentive to 'grind" out the CP.

Min/Maxers are obviously going to want to get 'all the CP' to make them as strong and tanky as possible, and I see the disadvantage of that for things like PVP and score-pushing end-game PVE are going to encourage that grind. This could end up hurting those communities and further limiting players' entries into the end-game community.

3. To combat part of the above, I would suggest that we bring back diminishing returns Not as harshly as they were implemented in the current CP system. But, for example, in a star that gave 3% mitigation for each 10 CP spent in it... for a total of 15% at maximum. Instead of a flat 3%, it's set up so the first 10 CP gives 5% mitigation, the next 10 gives 4%, then 3, 2, 1. You get to the same 15% maximum if the star is filled, but it's more heavily weighted at the beginning. (This is a linear diminishing return, rather than the exponential diminishing return of the old CP system). This would allow "lower-CP" accounts to get most of the benefits of using the stars by putting 30 or 40 points into the system. But those at higher CP would be able to get just that little bit extra by earning more CP. I feel like this would provide some semblance of vertical progression for end-game players, without being overly restrictive to lower-level players.

4. The arguments that I've seen that says "We need 2700 CP" to get all the stats is disingenuous to me. We've not been able to "get all the stats" previously (other than the first few months of CP 1.0, when the game was a grindfest), so I don't think the expectation should be that we "get all the stars" on the new system. Yes, the system allows for it. But our role-specific CP seems to be leveled to about CP1300 in the new system, with optional CP above that is fine if the XP curve is adjusted to make CP1300 be about the same as CP900 is currently I would like to spec into both healing and dps on my healer, and in CP 1.0 I was somewhat able to do that because of diminishing returns. Which is again why I think they should bring some of that back in CP 2.0 instead of the linear increases.

Again, these are my opinions.

Also, these changes are giving a DPS loss, and I'm okay with that change as long as content is adjusted to compensate. Honestly, the only thing I think that could use an adjustment is the time for speed run in vSS (to 35 minutes from 30) and the health of the eternal servant on the final HM should be adjusted to about 9m health from 11.3m to accomodate for the dps losses. In my opinion, all other trifectas are more than accomplishable with a 10-15% reduction in dps, and we'll get to see more mechanics (which I think is one of ZoS' goals with this change). Honestly, 100k parses and the levels of DPS we have have made so much content irrelevant, that I'm really okay with a reduction as long as the few pieces of content that require that level of DPS are adjusted accordingly (and I think that only includes vSS speed run time, and vSS Eternal Servant Health)

Thanks for reading.

I agree with all but number 4.

The problem is for things like pvp and trials you were not expected to buy those under the previous system. It was expected for you to go with the optimal set up you could get within the points we were allowed to spend. Not the optimal set up is all or at least all relevant ones. At 1300-1500 i might dps the same as a person with 1900-2000 but Ill still be less tanky making me a less suitable option than a higher level. In pvp it put you at a disadvantage against someone of a higher level. Again as an example I might be hitting just as hard at 1300-1500 as a 1900-2000 player but my damage will affect them less than than their damage affects me.

The fact that it can be done now dictates that it has too. At least with the unslotted passives.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I posted this in another thread, but I will post here:

My main issue is that the Vertical Progression probably goes on a bit too long. This is compounded by the fact that a lot of us have been over the cap for years and thus have had to earn CP at a very slow rate. Players in the 1300-1800 range that have likely been over the cap for years are going to face a pretty significant grind requirement to be back where they were at. You might have groups that were zeroing in on a tri-fecta they have been pushing, and once this goes live, the group will have to take a patch to just grind CP to get back to where they were. You could certainly argue damage is too high on live right now, but to pull groups 3 steps backwards is maybe not the best idea. It will cause progression groups to disband, certainly not all, but some.

My Proposal (sorry if stated, didnt read all 6 pages): Do not require points to be distributed evenly in each tree. This would accomplish a few things.

First, it would allow characters primarily focused on combat to reach a reasonable end of vertical progression at a lower CP threshold.

Second, it would allow newer players, who might not be into vet dungeons, trials, or CP PVP, to spend their early points on some more useful things from the green tree to aid in questing, exploration, etc.

I believe this would accomplish the goal of curbing Vertical progression at a reasonable level and promoting horizontal progression as you get to higher and higher CP.

This could also be accomplished in a few ways. One would be to simply let people distribute points in any star as they see fit. This would lower the effective combat CP cap by about a third at least, because a pure combat spec could ignore the Green tree. Another would be something like (as suggest by another forum member) for every point you put into each star, you get an extra point or two that can go anywhere. Depending on how this was setup, you could lower it by any fraction really depending on what is desired. If every 4th point was free to be placed anywhere, you are lowering the vertical progression threshold by about 25%

Alternate proposal: Implement the cap increases in clear and defined stages, while implementing the new curve all the way to 3600 so you can get ahead if you want to. Perhaps go live with something like 12-1500 as a cap. State clearly that the cap will increase by 300 each patch (it could be fairly large amount, assuming you could gain to the next threshold at a reasonable level) until 3600 is reached in say 2 years. This would still encourage players to stay active, but it wouldn't move the end quite so far all at once. If there was a clear path laid out, I think it could work very well.

Pink_Pixie

I tend to dislike the whole "new" cp system as it's rather crippling, however, I do have a suggestion or two to at least make more sense out of it.

1, Change all the greens to passives, as it's crafting.

2, Move the four green slots to red and blue, resulting in six each.

3, Shift some of the defensive stars from the blue tree to the red tree, Like we all need to skill dump into health for no logical reason.

3.a, Failing that, move the stamina, magicka stars from blue to red, as it's named fitness, Stamina is fitness after all.

4, Stop the annoying gating for stars we don't need, why on earth do I need to pick X amount of health to unlock how to run faster.

That is about all I can think of currently, no doubt I forgot something and may post it later.

robbybobby82

Not sure if I missed this info elsewhere but does anyone know if they plan on adding a full CP 3600 template to the PTS? I would like to be able to try out the new CP system with a truly maxed out character (including max new CP threshold) just to see more completely how the new trees and such work.

Xeniph

I personally don't like this new system, but I do have some feedback.

1. As others have stated, the UI is a bit "cluttered" and quite hard to distinguish paths for me.
2. The combat tree has WAY to many slottables compared to the other trees, it just seems like all the "good stuff" is crammed in there.
3. Splitting up CP into 3 spendable pools with a cap of 3600 seems quite antiquated to me. We SHOULD be able to spend all our points in any tree we like in any amount. This is true choice.
4. The passive slots, I can get on board with 12. However we should be able to slot ANY 12, from ANY tree, again choice.
5. With CP, especially early on, so important and limited, having to waste points on "useless stuff" is not fun or rewarding.
6. The system does need some sort of Loadout option. It's 2021, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to save a few load outs and just pay the cost to change things up.

With all that said, bring back the old CP tree, I much preferred the simplicity and the common sense "spread" of the useful stuff in all the trees.

Oh, and how the heck are we supposed to test everything without an option to create a max CP toon? I mean it's needed and important to test at your current level, but NO option to roll a new toon at max cp? C'mon

Rehdaun

Console folks are the forgotten players with this new system. Four slots per tree is too limiting. Zos's response: "You can switch out your slotables as long as you aren't in combat." While that's all well and good for PC folks with their addons, us console players know full well that we can't do that and still be able to compete for score. In most cases we will be stuck with the same four slots for the entire trial, forcing us to choose the minimum for both damage and survivability. Thanks zos for sticking it to us console players once again.

Fennwitty

Interesting idea, but some serious changes have to be made to what's considered 'passive' vs. 'slottable'.

Especially for Craft (Green).

Abilities that have no bearing at all on combat shouldn't require slotting.

Roleplaying and situational QOL perks need to be passive skills as a rule. Otherwise, you're just telling players to switch their slotted skills any time they engage in a routine activity like selling or harvesting.

I seriously don't want to press a bunch of buttons or go into the CP screen simply to sell my loot or harvest a node, then press a bunch more to get myself ready to enter a dungeon.




Specific Examples that Require Active Slotting:
Friends In Low Places: 1/day remove 1000 gold from your bounty. Requires slotting.

If I have a bounty, there's nothing in the world that stops me from slotting this and unslotting it after. It shouldn't require space on my active slotted bar because it literally works once a day. The opportunity cost of unlocking it should be plenty without requiring me to nerf myself in combat for a low-value roleplaying ability.

Infamous: Increases the value of fenced items by 15%. Requires slotting.

This again should be passive. You know as a player I'm going to switch my slotted skills when selling stolen items, and immediately unslot it when I go back to doing other things. Having it require slotting just wastes my time and requires extra button presses, with no interesting gameplay effect for leaving it slotted outside that very instant I'm selling. It should also be passive.

Shantu

Being forced to spend a third of my CP's in a Crafting constellation I don't give a crap about is brilliant!!

Parabola

SCRAP THE UI FOR A SIMPLE LIST/GRID
People enter the CP screen to change CP, not look at fancy patterns of dots. Just use a basic, grid/list UI. Considering that the team needs to make huge changes to the CP, keeping the UI simple enables the team to be more responsive rather than entrenched.

ENCOURANGE EXPERIMENTATION - USE CP TO REDUCE RESPEC COST
While the slotting system is nice to enable zero-cost CP respec for those of us with high CP, everyone needs reduced respec cost (you can even use CP for that bonus). If we want variety in builds, we should not make gold costs as a disincentive for experimentation.