PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

VaxtinTheWolf

In the red tree, The node for Cost Reduction to Damage Shields doesn't apply to Templar's Class shield. Why is that? It works for Bone Shield, and Sorcerer's Ward.

Foto1

return the diminishing returns

Foto1

So far, the CP 2.0 system seems very crude and unfinished. I'm not sure that they will have time to balance all this in 6 weeks PTS.
if they spent 2+ years developing this system, let them think about it for another year or so

Firstmep

Foto1 wrote: »

So far, the CP 2.0 system seems very crude and unfinished. I'm not sure that they will have time to balance all this in 6 weeks PTS.
if they spent 2+ years developing this system, let them think about it for another year or so

I don't belive it for a second that it took them 2 years to come up with this.i can belive that they've been changing the game for 2 years to fit the new cp system(it really doesn't).
The fact that we're seeing a massive increase in hp in a pvp meta that's already focused on hp stacking is a good indication that they just didn't give these changes enough thought.

lillybit

What worries me the most with the new system is the gating. We've never been forced to do anything, anywhere in the game. Especially since 1T and even quests became more or less optional. I think it's a really bad idea to start now.

This will disproportionately effect new and casual players. If someone starting out reads a guide online that tells them they need points in X, Y and X to be competitive but everything they earn has to go in to A, B and C first it'll put a lot of people off. At the moment as soon as someone hits level 50 they can put CP in something that makes them feel stronger. How long before a new player feels like they're getting somewhere after the update?

The gates are, in my opinion, a really bad idea and there are other ways they could've locked thing away. Have passive stars only unlock after X is spent in active ones, but let people have the pick of active ones. They're such a big points investment in the first place, don't lock new players away from them - it's just restriction on top of restriction.

People are comparing 2.0 with Skyrim but it's not really the same. The gate there was always something necessary - the ability to cast the next level spell for example. It was linear. As you levelled the skill and got stronger you could unlock the next stage, even stronger spells. It didn't make sense any other way - you wouldn't unlock master before adept and if you could you wouldn't be able to use it anyway. There was a reason. But if you specialised, you could unlock really strong effects really early. In a way, a tree in Skyrim is more comparable to a single star in ESO, a linear progression to a stronger effect.


I kinda like that they've keep CP split in to 3 trees tho, especially as you need to spend points on them now rather than just being a side effect of spending on combat stars. If it was possible to spend them all anywhere, people who craft as well as do group content would be forced to spend all their points in combat at the expense of important (to them) green line options. It does effectively cut your CP total by a third though. It almost feels like green should be a bonus line - earn CP to put anywhere in red and blue and every 2 you get a bonus point in green that doesn't count towards your level to use for the non-combat stuff.

If it was just a free-for-all I can imagine situations where as well as a DPS test, you need to pick a flower in front of trial leaders to prove you're not using green stars

Joy_Division

Firstmep wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

So far, the CP 2.0 system seems very crude and unfinished. I'm not sure that they will have time to balance all this in 6 weeks PTS.
if they spent 2+ years developing this system, let them think about it for another year or so

I don't belive it for a second that it took them 2 years to come up with this.i can belive that they've been changing the game for 2 years to fit the new cp system(it really doesn't).
The fact that we're seeing a massive increase in hp in a pvp meta that's already focused on hp stacking is a good indication that they just didn't give these changes enough thought.

Battlespirit's 5K is getting removed.

It makes absolute sense that they have been working on this for two years. Two years ago, the game was very different because they make so many changes every patch. Thus, a lot of the CP system was designed at a time when old mechanics were meta and very different from what we are playing under now.

IronWooshu

VoidCommander wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

After some quick testing:

- The replacement of jump points with clear stages is helpful
- It's not immediately obvious how the unlocking along branches works, could use more signposting
- Some of the values look strange at first glance (not sure if this is just tooltips or actual impacts)
- On an 810 CP template, it feels like there's lots more you'd want to spend in the blue, a little more you might want in red and almost nothing impactful at all in green, so the even split of CP to spend feels a bit off

Also not sure how far along the current balance pass is, but damage on a like for like (gear/skill/rotation) with what felt like sensible CP allocation was massively down on live (over 30k DPS lower)

I have also experience a MAJOR decrease in dps, despite choosing what appeared to be very sensible cp choices. I understand that stamplar experieced many nerfs this patch with selenes and advancing yokuda, but it should not have taken me from a 102k rotation down to barely managing 52k. I even swapped advancing yokuda with the Deadly set (which wasn't nerfed) and it had no effect on the end dps. I'm not sure if this massive dps slice was intended, but I don't think I'm going to want to continue playing damage on all my toons is going to be almost halved despite my best efforts.

If everyone's damage was halved, would it really matter? That's what it seems like, it's not just Stamplar related.

IronWooshu

"Game is too easy ZoS" - Forums for the last three or four years.

People are out there easily soloing World Bosses and Dungeons so they cut damage in half.

"Now it's too much" well yeah, power creep was out of control in the game and they adjusted accordingly making everything more challenging.

Isn't that what is fun?

I come from playing Path of Exile, I still play it. The complexity in that game is something beyond the scope of so many people, you get use to seeing 50% nerfs on things all the time, people cry that it ruined them but guess what, they still play it next league and clear all content. It just takes more investment now to reach your old power.

What's wrong with that? I'm glad ZoS is attempting to add more complexity and depth.

albumoculus

Overall there are 3 abilties I think are absurdly out of place
- Siphoning spells, 1500 magicka is just too much, in any Pve content with tons of ads there won't be any reason to even worry about magicka sustain, there are plenty of bosses with adds and spawnable adds throughout the fight so magicka sustain will simply be too easy
- Bloody renewal, same principle here as Siphoning spells, it's just far too lucrative and quite frankly I think it will be kinda boring, healers won't even be needed with their synergies in boss fights with adds, frankly I think you should half the amount for every stage, anyway as long as it's dealt with.
- Strategic Reserve, 50 health recovery for every 10 ultimate. Hello? 2500 health recovery altogether, combine that with major and minor fortitude, base health recovery and sets like The Troll king, you can reach absurd numbers of health recovery.
Now granted I haven't been on the PTS so I've actually not tries out any of these passives but I can already extrapolate the complaints.

NagualV

Has anyone else tested the 'slippery' slottable skill? It gives you an automatic break free every 18 secs I believe. On first day of pts(I'm a magblade) I was messing around dueling some magdk's, and this skill puts breaking free from fossilized on autopilot. You automatically break free, no input required , and then you can dodge roll right out(theres another passive that gives you a free, non-automatic dodge roll every 30 secs)

Magdk's are the bane of my existence. However, having this skill slotted made breaking free fully automatic. I'm curious if anyone else tested and what their thoughts may be

IrishRonD

Yay!! With this system, I will need to lose my life as a more-than-casual gamer and go straight to hardcore. I will no longer be able to jump in for an hour or so and do whatever I feel like doing that day without having to change up my CP choices. For example, I want to just fish one day, I need to make sure that I have Reel Technique and Angler's Instincts added to my Champion Bar. The next day, I just want to farm mats, so I need to and change my Champion Bar. The day after, I want to play a thief, so now I must change my Champion Bar, yet again. Oh, now I get a request to run a dungeon. Wait a second, err, minute, I need to change up my Champion Bar so I can do that...

Sadly, when a game starts to seem more like work, it is time to stop playing the game. Maybe I have just spent too much time on this game since closed Beta.

reaveii

I do like the idea behind CP2.0 (especially the things in the green tree, it's about time off-combat things got some love), but not with this kind of execution. I reached cp 810 a few months ago, and I'd rather not lose my year's worth of progress in a single update just to be in the bottom of the food chain again.

This is only going to be even worse for the players that don't have the time available to level - the power gap between new and vet players would be huge and just a big slap in the face for the existing players (of lower cp). The grind that would ensue just going from 810 -> 3600 sounds so unbearable that if it happens, I'll honestly just pack my bags and stop playing altogether.

As a side note, I also dislike the health pool raise. I main PVP and the huge health pools with proc meta already give a headache. It'd be about time to steer it in a different direction, please.

silvereyes

@ZOS_GinaBruno, would it be possible to have a PTS template container full of raw crafting materials that can be refined, like ore, rough wood, raw fibers, hide scraps and precious metal dust? If there is to be a CP 2.0 ability that changes drop rates of materials produced by refinement, then having the raw materials to refine would be helpful for testing purposes.

silvereyes

IrishRonD wrote: »

Yay!! With this system, I will need to lose my life as a more-than-casual gamer and go straight to hardcore. I will no longer be able to jump in for an hour or so and do whatever I feel like doing that day without having to change up my CP choices. For example, I want to just fish one day, I need to make sure that I have Reel Technique and Angler's Instincts added to my Champion Bar. The next day, I just want to farm mats, so I need to and change my Champion Bar. The day after, I want to play a thief, so now I must change my Champion Bar, yet again. Oh, now I get a request to run a dungeon. Wait a second, err, minute, I need to change up my Champion Bar so I can do that...

I think it would be helpful to have either a favorites list or a recent history list for the CP bar to streamline switching between activities.

majulook

Why are some Stars that most players will use locked behind Stars that cost 100 CP and may not be used by most players???

Moltab

I don't believe I'm the only one who thinks the way this change is being implemented is unhealthy for the game. Previously, the idea of 810 cp being the max, and needing to reach around 600 to gain your most important passives and % stats was already a big grind. For those who have already gone through it and progressed further though, the idea that we now have to grind thousands of points at 1mil xp per level is not good for the game. Even if you don't need the full 3600 cp to gain an acceptable power level for content, from what I've seen it's certainly far more than the 1200 you've been suggesting we should need. The overall sentiment I'm getting from the people I know that are into end game progression is that this is really going to hurt their motivation to keep playing. It's too much to put people through. Maybe some people don't care about having max stats but for anyone looking to do achievements and complete trial or dungeon hard modes it's a big turn off if it requires hundreds of millions of xp points to do enough damage to meet the requirements of mechanics and certainly any idea of pushing for score is going down the drain for a long while if no one is at max for as long as it will take to grind this out. But it's not just bad for that part of the community, think how off putting it sounds if you tell a new player that the cap is 3600 cp and that this might take you years to reach even with a lot of play-time. Compare this to other mmo's that specifically implement mechanics to 'catch people up' or increase xp gains because they know exactly how demotivating such a grind is, both for old and new players. You should really consider what it is you're doing to the game. At the end of the day mmo's are always endless grinds, but you need to present it in a way of incremental progress and not an insurmountable blockade that'll take years to get through. I've played this game for over a year now, and I really don't want to see something that I know is going to damage people's motivation to keep playing, both for myself and the friends I've made through this game and for everyone else that loves playing it. So please, change the system in a way where it is either easier to reach the cap of the so-called vertical progression so that the grind is restricted to things that give you more choices instead of also a massive grind just to gain enough power to do content. I suggest you reduce the curve, for the sake of both existing and any new player that this may prevent from ever getting into a game where max level will take you years.

katorga

Joy_Division wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

So far, the CP 2.0 system seems very crude and unfinished. I'm not sure that they will have time to balance all this in 6 weeks PTS.
if they spent 2+ years developing this system, let them think about it for another year or so

I don't belive it for a second that it took them 2 years to come up with this.i can belive that they've been changing the game for 2 years to fit the new cp system(it really doesn't).
The fact that we're seeing a massive increase in hp in a pvp meta that's already focused on hp stacking is a good indication that they just didn't give these changes enough thought.

Battlespirit's 5K is getting removed.

Nothing in patch notes at all per Battlespirit. Where did they say that?

Makes total sense though.

virtus753

silvereyes wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, would it be possible to have a PTS template container full of raw crafting materials that can be refined, like ore, rough wood, raw fibers, hide scraps and precious metal dust? If there is to be a CP 2.0 ability that changes drop rates of materials produced by refinement, then having the raw materials to refine would be helpful for testing purposes.

Yes, please! I got no gold tempers from refining almost 10k of mats with the Meticulous Disassembly node activated. I'm trying to test it further, but I don't have stockpiles of raw mats to keep refining and many guild traders are not hired on the PTS right now.

WiredandTired

reaveii wrote: »

I do like the idea behind CP2.0 (especially the things in the green tree, it's about time off-combat things got some love), but not with this kind of execution. I reached cp 810 a few months ago, and I'd rather not lose my year's worth of progress in a single update just to be in the bottom of the food chain again.

This is only going to be even worse for the players that don't have the time available to level - the power gap between new and vet players would be huge and just a big slap in the face for the existing players (of lower cp). The grind that would ensue just going from 810 -> 3600 sounds so unbearable that if it happens, I'll honestly just pack my bags and stop playing altogether.

As a side note, I also dislike the health pool raise. I main PVP and the huge health pools with proc meta already give a headache. It'd be about time to steer it in a different direction, please.

Agreed, the truth of the new system is far worse than what was stated in the livestream. Vertical progression ending at 2700 instead of 1200 with no automatic adjustment from current CP level or a new reasonable leveling rate is such a gigantic oversight, I cannot believe it. To introduce such a colossal experience grind out of nowhere is unthinkable.

This thread needs to be blown up based on what is on the PTS so far. Sooner the better, this will turn off a significant portion of current players and prospective players.

ealdwin

WiredandTired wrote: »

reaveii wrote: »

I do like the idea behind CP2.0 (especially the things in the green tree, it's about time off-combat things got some love), but not with this kind of execution. I reached cp 810 a few months ago, and I'd rather not lose my year's worth of progress in a single update just to be in the bottom of the food chain again.

This is only going to be even worse for the players that don't have the time available to level - the power gap between new and vet players would be huge and just a big slap in the face for the existing players (of lower cp). The grind that would ensue just going from 810 -> 3600 sounds so unbearable that if it happens, I'll honestly just pack my bags and stop playing altogether.

As a side note, I also dislike the health pool raise. I main PVP and the huge health pools with proc meta already give a headache. It'd be about time to steer it in a different direction, please.

Agreed, the truth of the new system is far worse than what was stated in the livestream. Vertical progression ending at 2700 instead of 1200 with no automatic adjustment from current CP level or a new reasonable leveling rate is such a gigantic oversight, I cannot believe it. To introduce such a colossal experience grind out of nowhere is unthinkable.

This thread needs to be blown up based on what is on the PTS so far. Sooner the better, this will turn off a significant portion of current players and prospective players.

Vertical Progression shouldn't even end at 1200, considering that the current end on live is CP cap of 810. Introuducing any more grinding towards Vertical Progression for those who have already reached that point on live devalues previous work of those players. It also means that the gap from level 50 to the end of Vertical Progression only becomes greater. Unless significant reductions are made for the XP required for each CP point (which we don't even fully know), newer players will find themselves with greater distance between themselves and more experienced players.

IMO, the end of Vertical Progression should be even lower, sitting at about 600CP, rather than 1200 or even 2700.

WiredandTired

ealdwin wrote: »

WiredandTired wrote: »

reaveii wrote: »

I do like the idea behind CP2.0 (especially the things in the green tree, it's about time off-combat things got some love), but not with this kind of execution. I reached cp 810 a few months ago, and I'd rather not lose my year's worth of progress in a single update just to be in the bottom of the food chain again.

This is only going to be even worse for the players that don't have the time available to level - the power gap between new and vet players would be huge and just a big slap in the face for the existing players (of lower cp). The grind that would ensue just going from 810 -> 3600 sounds so unbearable that if it happens, I'll honestly just pack my bags and stop playing altogether.

As a side note, I also dislike the health pool raise. I main PVP and the huge health pools with proc meta already give a headache. It'd be about time to steer it in a different direction, please.

Agreed, the truth of the new system is far worse than what was stated in the livestream. Vertical progression ending at 2700 instead of 1200 with no automatic adjustment from current CP level or a new reasonable leveling rate is such a gigantic oversight, I cannot believe it. To introduce such a colossal experience grind out of nowhere is unthinkable.

This thread needs to be blown up based on what is on the PTS so far. Sooner the better, this will turn off a significant portion of current players and prospective players.

Vertical Progression shouldn't even end at 1200, considering that the current end on live is CP cap of 810. Introuducing any more grinding towards Vertical Progression for those who have already reached that point on live devalues previous work of those players. It also means that the gap from level 50 to the end of Vertical Progression only becomes greater. Unless significant reductions are made for the XP required for each CP point (which we don't even fully know), newer players will find themselves with greater distance between themselves and more experienced players.

IMO, the end of Vertical Progression should be even lower, sitting at about 600CP, rather than 1200 or even 2700.

I would be agreeable to that too, the 1200 was chosen merely to be consistent with what was said in the Bethesda livestream. I would've been delighted if power was really shifted downwards to the base level 50 and 600 CP being the end of vertical progression on non-slottable passives. On the other end I don't mind putting in a bit more extra legwork if it truly involved increasing my character power or utility relative to my power now, but in this case they're ROBBING you of power and asking you to redo the work. Who thought this was a good idea?

MashmalloMan

Great system overall, but your analysis about what CP levels reach the same, less or more power vs live appear to be very off. As others have suggested, you need to adjust how much CP is required to pay for some of these stars. It's very confusing to see stars for 0-30 vs 0-100 and even 0/50/100/150/250. It should be more streamlined with more stages and diminishing returns so players at cp1-800 don't feel completely cheated by players at 2k +.

For example the 10% dot slottable is like this:

• Stage 1, 10 cp: 2%
• Stage 2, 20 cp: 4%
• Stage 3, 30 cp: 6%
• Stage 4, 40 cp: 8%
• Stage 5, 50 cp: 10%

But you could instead do something like this to ease the power gain, but keep the total cost the same:

• Stage 1, 5 cp: 2%
• Stage 2, 10 cp: 4%
• Stage 3, 15 cp: 6%
• Stage 4, 25 cp: 8%
• Stage 5, 50 cp: 10%

The reverse is keeping the stages the same, but introducing fractions on the % increases, it seems like the objective is to avoid fractions so I thought changing how much the stages cost was the more logical answer.

Some stars don't even have stages and require spending 50-100 points just get a bonus. Thats a little over the top. Someone with the CP to spend in that star is not going to care, but if you're someone whos grinding level after level to afford it, you're going to get nothing for 100-200 levels, since you only actually get a point for that tree every 3 levels. Thats insane.

Ratzkifal

"Piercing Gaze" in Fitness is great!

The detection stat has several problems that this CP bonus elegantly removes:

1. Detection is niche - it is only useful in PvP since there is nothing to detect in PvE
2. Detection is weak - 3m extra are not a whole lot
3. Detection is in the way - on item sets and racial passives it hogs the space of other, more desireable stats and leaves people who want to invest heavily into detection weaker

As a CP bonus anyone has the option to specialize into this niche if they desire and the opportunity cost of obtaining Detection is greatly lowered since you do not need to give up an item set for it, it doesn't need to be slotted and you also can freely decide how much of it you feel is worth getting with your CP budget in mind! You don't lose damage either since it is in Fitness!

Remove detection from Way of Air and Bosmer and instead make Piercing Gaze go up to stage 5 with 5m or even higher!
That way the total amount of bonus detection stays the same, but it becomes much more accessible, while the Way of the Air set can gain another bonus to make it more desireable and Bosmer can get room for another passive (the old stealth perhaps).

MashmalloMan

Ratzkifal wrote: »

"Piercing Gaze" in Fitness is great!

The detection stat has several problems that this CP bonus elegantly removes:

1. Detection is niche - it is only useful in PvP since there is nothing to detect in PvE
2. Detection is weak - 3m extra are not a whole lot
3. Detection is in the way - on item sets and racial passives it hogs the space of other, more desireable stats and leaves people who want to invest heavily into detection weaker

As a CP bonus anyone has the option to specialize into this niche if they desire and the opportunity cost of obtaining Detection is greatly lowered since you do not need to give up an item set for it, it doesn't need to be slotted and you also can freely decide how much of it you feel is worth getting with your CP budget in mind! You don't lose damage either since it is in Fitness!

Remove detection from Way of Air and Bosmer and instead make Piercing Gaze go up to stage 5 with 5m or even higher!
That way the total amount of bonus detection stays the same, but it becomes much more accessible, while the Way of the Air set can gain another bonus to make it more desireable and Bosmer can get room for another passive (the old stealth perhaps).

If you remember what they said about stealth passives 2+ years ago with racial changes, they wanted it to become more universally available instead of attaching it to your race choice. We then got some set changes which I think was their actual approach to the problem, but honestly no one was happy with them and it's mainly because Khajiit still had the bonus, while sacrificing an entire set wasn't worth it. With a system like this, they could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

People have been asking for them to add stealth reduction to the Thieves guild skill line, but the problem with that solution is everyone would have it active once grinding the skill line, there is no current way to force choice on players when it comes to skill lines. The new CP system fixes this issue entirely, as long as it's not a choice made in the blue tree, I think red tree would be best since green is non combat related.

Remove reduction from Khajiit and Dedtection from Wood Elf, replace them with something else with an elusive based bonus. Make stealth detection and reduction slottable CP nodes. This way your sacrifice is not directly related to combat or race choice which would feel very punishing, but instead a trade for off in the more versatile trees.

Ratzkifal

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

"Piercing Gaze" in Fitness is great!

The detection stat has several problems that this CP bonus elegantly removes:

1. Detection is niche - it is only useful in PvP since there is nothing to detect in PvE
2. Detection is weak - 3m extra are not a whole lot
3. Detection is in the way - on item sets and racial passives it hogs the space of other, more desireable stats and leaves people who want to invest heavily into detection weaker

As a CP bonus anyone has the option to specialize into this niche if they desire and the opportunity cost of obtaining Detection is greatly lowered since you do not need to give up an item set for it, it doesn't need to be slotted and you also can freely decide how much of it you feel is worth getting with your CP budget in mind! You don't lose damage either since it is in Fitness!

Remove detection from Way of Air and Bosmer and instead make Piercing Gaze go up to stage 5 with 5m or even higher!
That way the total amount of bonus detection stays the same, but it becomes much more accessible, while the Way of the Air set can gain another bonus to make it more desireable and Bosmer can get room for another passive (the old stealth perhaps).

If you remember what they said about stealth passives 2+ years ago with racial changes, they wanted it to become more universally available instead of attaching it to your race choice. We then got some set changes which I think was their actual approach to the problem, but honestly no one was happy with them and it's mainly because Khajiit still had the bonus, while sacrificing an entire set wasn't worth it. With a system like this, they could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

People have been asking for them to add stealth reduction to the Thieves guild skill line, but the problem with that solution is everyone would have it active once grinding the skill line, there is no current way to force choice on players when it comes to skill lines. The new CP system fixes this issue entirely, as long as it's not a choice made in the blue tree, I think red tree would be best since green is non combat related.

Remove reduction from Khajiit and Dedtection from Wood Elf, replace them with something else with an elusive based bonus. Make stealth detection and reduction slottable CP nodes. This way your sacrifice is not directly related to combat or race choice which would feel very punishing, but instead a trade for off in the more versatile trees.

Actually I don't think that would be a good call.

There is already a stealth bonus in CP so that has properly opened up the stealth game, which I am very happy about.
But it shouldn't be a slottable CP! There is already 6-7 slottable CPs for justice interactions (depending on whether you want to count Treasure Hunter or not), which already leaves little room for the stealth bonus anymore and then you already have to give up on other useful non-justice CPs for that.
And then you also want to take stealth away from Khajiit or (potentially) Bosmer, just when these bonuses would become more useful for making your CP decisions easier? Aside from the lore clearly stating that these races are stealthier than the rest (which is what racial passives are supposed to do - teach people about the race they belong to through gameplay means), I feel this would be a rather restrictive change than a liberating one.

gregariousjbb14_ESO

6 constellations have been removed from the original 9 and yet it's more complicated and convoluted than ever.

No set number of stars needed per stage. Some stars need 8 points to raise a stage, some 10, some 20, some 75, some 100.

No set number of stages. Some have 4, some 3, some 2, some 1.

Some stars need to be added to slots in order to be activated because of reasons.

Some stars aren't even connected to the constellation and are just off on the side.

Lots of stars don't seem to have any relevance to the ones beside it.

Difficult to see / ley lines are faded / star color matches the color of the constellation in the background / need to mouse over every single star to see what it is/what stage it's at.

Meticulous Disassembly (Woodworking deconstruction star) is just plain weird, is a direct copy/paste of the passive we already have, and super expensive at 100 CP. wtf?

Not enough CP points to fill in all the good stuff at CP 810. So is this a max-level increase like when WoW went from level 60 to level 70? And everyone just needs to level up a little more again? I'd be fine with it if that's the case, but I feel like going from a cap of 810 to a cap of 900 or even 1200 is fine. Not 3600. Unless the level requirements are so low that killing a rabbit gets you like 5 CP levels.

---

On the up side, I like the Craft tree in that it's all quality of life stuff. Oh, and SHIFT+Clicking the + and - symbols adds or removes one full stage at a time. My index finger thanks you.

Ancalag

Hi there !

First, I woud like to say thank you for this beautiful game and thank you to continue to work on it and try to always make the game better.

I really enjoy what you trying to do with the champion point system and I hope you will improve it with the PTS update to make it perfect when it goes live.

This was already said a lot of time but for me there is 2 things I noticed with the actual CP2.0:

- You want more horizontal gameplay and less vertical one, you create a slot bar to limite the bonus per characters and make people having to choose between all the stars, but I was surprised to see all the passives ones. That means people will use their cp points to have 4 actives stars, then fill all the passives (cp2640 for warfare and cp3414 for fitness) and only after they will take more actives ones to don't have to pay (3000g) to change their build. The vertical progression stop at cp3414 !!!
I hope you will make an easier xp curve to reach at least this lvl.

- I'm surprised that even at cp3600 we are not able to unlock everything. If you want a total horizontal gameplay, the additional price of all the stars of each constellation should be 1200cp (if cap at cp3600).
I personnally prefer having acces to everything at full cp to more versatility and in all case it will always be possible with respec, it's just faster if you already have all and limitation is allready there with the active bar. Then when you will wanted to add new stars, you just have to up the cp cap to have access to the new ones.


Now, let's have a look on the 3 constellations:

- Warfare: it's the most advanced one and after some tests I think it works perfectly. Maybe, the only thing you could adjust is the price of Flawless Ritual/Battle Mage and Battle Mastery/Mighty to have something like 70/30 instead of 100/30, to not have a useless 20cp left when you are max cp.

- Fitness: this one is almost good. Some price adjustment, at least for Spirit Mastery (33cp?) and Tempered Soul (250cp!!!) to not have 12cp left at the end and diminished the vertical progression for more horizontality. I didn't make a lot of test on it, so maybe there is stars at the wrong place, but it looks good for me.

- Craft: here it's a little more tricky. Because all the stars are pretty specific, more you will have better it will be. You will never want to use them all at the same time and it will take a lot of time switching stars in the bar according to what you're doing (material farm, donjon, sell items, fishing...). And because these bonuses don't affect the servers as combat ones, you could consider to change all of them into passives bonuses.
Out of that, this constellation don't look finished yet. There is some price adjustement to do (maybe try to standardise it, actives stars at 50cp like the others constellations) and some link to change (add one between Breakfall and Rationer for exemple). Of course, add the bonus for the others crafting stations (in a sub-constellation with Inspiration Boost at base).


I hope been usefull and I can't wait to see what it will be.

laurajf

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Some stars don't even have stages and require spending 50-100 points just get a bonus. Thats a little over the top. Someone with the CP to spend in that star is not going to care, but if you're someone whos grinding level after level to afford it, you're going to get nothing for 100-200 levels, since you only actually get a point for that tree every 3 levels. Thats insane.

This is a really good point.

FinrodMacBeorn

tmbrinks wrote: »

...
3. To combat part of the above, I would suggest that we bring back diminishing returns Not as harshly as they were implemented in the current CP system. But, for example, in a star that gave 3% mitigation for each 10 CP spent in it... for a total of 15% at maximum. Instead of a flat 3%, it's set up so the first 10 CP gives 5% mitigation, the next 10 gives 4%, then 3, 2, 1. You get to the same 15% maximum if the star is filled, but it's more heavily weighted at the beginning. (This is a linear diminishing return, rather than the exponential diminishing return of the old CP system). This would allow "lower-CP" accounts to get most of the benefits of using the stars by putting 30 or 40 points into the system. But those at higher CP would be able to get just that little bit extra by earning more CP. I feel like this would provide some semblance of vertical progression for end-game players, without being overly restrictive to lower-level players.
...

Not going into the details of CP 2.0, but some remarks from mid-level veteran player (1400+ cp, 15 lvl 50 chars, 180+ day played on main, many more on twinks, ESO+ since Beta, all vet trials and dlc dungeons cleared, but few trial HMs - currently starting with vCR+1):

If, at launch of cp 2.0., I and my team mates (with 1000-1400 cp) are capable to perform similarly in the above content as now (or as in Harrowstorm). Otherwise, I'm out (of ESO+), probably staying for a few casual dungeon runs with friends once a week to keep in touch. I do not have the time nor the nerve for an excessive grind just to be able to clear content which I currently be able to. I can live with the fact that some players are better as I'm not going for scores and I pvp anyhow on no-cp.

I have nothing against progression as long as I can keep on the front by playing the game, but not by stupid grinds. The increasing cap of 30 cps per quarter was completely ok for me as well as - before ESO - raising the levels once a year in other MMOs. I have something against wasting my precious time with dull grinds, and the current state of CP 2.0 and the yet few scarce reports from pts hint that I'll would have to grind a LOT for many months just to be back at my current raid performance. Yes, damage likely would be similar with 1400 cp as now if specking into full damage, but some people report that they are then so squishy that they drop dead once a mob just looks at them. I'll test it once the EU copies are available.

Given the current state of CP 2.0 and a realistic view on what could be changed until launch I see 3 possible solutions:
1) implement diminishing returns, e.g. as in the cited proposal or, as somebody else proposed, with equal stat steps but increasing cp cost per step,
2) drop or considerably relax the requirement of spending 1/3 of cp in each tree,
3) let us buy cp in the crown store (or something like +500% exp for 2 hours crown scrolls).

I know the latter is pay-to-win, but, from my point of view, stupid grinding is also pay-to win privileging people who have ample time and pay with it for progression. I do not have this time (family, demanding job etc.), but I have the money. After all, typically mmo grinders have the option to pay instead of grinding. I do not advocate 3), but if the current - for my situation - endless vertical progression goes life, I would rather accept it then stop playing.

dhoward5b14_ESO

Here's what I don't get. I know several people who will be very unhappy if their CP is not adjusted up based on their current XP. I know NOBODY who will be very unhappy if this is done. Why *** off a lot of people instead of nobody? I just do not understand this logic.