Maintenance for the week of October 26:
• ESO Website for maintenance – October 27, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• Xbox One: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 28, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®4: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – October 28, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/

Wood Elf Racial Changes -- ZOS, Please Stop Ignoring Your Community

GrumpyDuckling
GrumpyDuckling
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
This is (probably) my last effort to try to get ZOS to open their eyes and see the community's feedback regarding Bosmer race changes before they go live. I'm doing my best to write about this objectively (I play multiple races in multiple roles), and with as much logic and reasoning as possible, regarding both balance and lore.

1) Roll Dodge Speed Boost Doesn't Make Sense
Bosmer are agile, meaning that their roll dodge should not cause them to move at a faster top speed than other races after they perform a roll dodge because that's not how agility works. Agility is performing quick moves, like roll dodge, more easily and more gracefully. Giving Bosmer a cost reduction for roll dodge makes much more sense than granting them a random bonus to their top speed after they perform a roll dodge.

2) Weird, Conditional Penetration Bonus
In the PTS Notes v4.3.2 developer comments you stated that you didn't want to add more passive power to Bosmer. That's fine, but the conditional penetration bonus after a roll dodge is just weird in how it fits into the game. Why not follow the suggestion above, and remove the bonus to move speed (which has already proved to cause PVP concern) in favor of reduced cost for dodge roll (which makes more sense) and then implement a flat penetration bonus that is active at all times? You would be taking some power away (move speed) and adding a little power elsewhere (flat penetration bonus). If there would be balance issues with a flat bonus, then consider reducing the total amount of penetration that the flat bonus gives -- it doesn't have to be as high as the 1500 penetration that is currently tied to Hunter's Eye dodge roll.

3) Stealth Removal and Your Consistent Silence
By removing stealth bonuses you are flat out ignoring the stealth aspect of Bosmer lore. Rite of Theft, sneaky hunters, and even one of the Bosmeri culture's most famous and renowned poems (Meh Ayleidion, which means "The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding") all speak to Bosmeri reliance on stealth. We get why you removed their stealth bonuses -- you want each class to feel different and decided to go with Khajiit for sneak bonuses -- but in doing that you are ignoring lore and upsetting some of your players who built their characters around the fact that Wood Elves have had sneak bonuses. You are choosing to remain steadfast in your position to maintain lore inaccuracy and the racial dismantling of builds that were specifically built around a lore-inspired theme and play style.

Please, concerning all of the above, check your pride (I know it doesn't feel good to be told that what you are doing isn't great, or that it doesn't make sense) in favor of logic and reason as it relates to balance and lore.
Edited by GrumpyDuckling on February 19, 2019 1:05AM
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Even giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt and letting the dodgeroll passive movement speed and penetration stand as it is. Bosmer have been better at sneaking than Khajiit in two out of three recent Elder Scrolls games and even in the 1 in 3 they had a bonus to sneaking (just not higher than Khajiit). ZOS thinks "meh who cares. It's free diversity estate! Change it to... rolls dice detection!"
    Sure, Bosmer have a justification for better eyesight but at the expense of stealth? No justification found.

    And in skyrim I believe it was kahjiits that had a better eyesight passive as well.

    Indeed. Not only in Skyrim though. They also had nightvision in Morrowind and Oblivion I think (not sure).
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • max_only
    max_only
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you are a Bosmer werewolf can you test if you get a speed bonus for roll dodge? I have my roll dodge bound to a key so when I press it in WW form I dodge things even if it doesn’t animate the wolf rolling. I want to know if doing this makes faster werewolves. Hasty Retreat from the bow skill line doesn’t make ww faster but this might. And if it does... lololololol
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    max_only wrote: »
    If you are a Bosmer werewolf can you test if you get a speed bonus for roll dodge? I have my roll dodge bound to a key so when I press it in WW form I dodge things even if it doesn’t animate the wolf rolling. I want to know if doing this makes faster werewolves. Hasty Retreat from the bow skill line doesn’t make ww faster but this might. And if it does... lololololol

    @max_only It should, considering that the poison resistance still works in werewolf form. Then again, I wouldn't trust common sense and logic to be at work in this game...
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • SirLeeMinion
    SirLeeMinion
    ✭✭✭✭
    ZoS is not one for reverting anything...
    Sadly, I agree and have uninstalled the PTS for that reason.

  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    This is (probably) my last effort to try to get ZOS to open their eyes and see the community's feedback regarding Bosmer race changes before they go live. I'm doing my best to write about this objectively (I play multiple races in multiple roles), and with as much logic and reasoning as possible, regarding both balance and lore.

    1) Roll Dodge Speed Boost Doesn't Make Sense
    I actually don't mind it terribly, but it's just Hasty Retreat+.
    2) Weird, Conditional Penetration Bonus
    Yes, this is just weird.
    3) Stealth Removal and Your Consistent Silence
    By removing stealth bonuses you are flat out ignoring the stealth aspect of Bosmer lore. Rite of Theft, sneaky hunters, and even one of the Bosmeri culture's most famous and renowned poems (Meh Ayleidion, which means "The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding") all speak to Bosmeri reliance on stealth. We get why you removed their stealth bonuses -- you want each class to feel different and decided to go with Khajiit for sneak bonuses -- but in doing that you are ignoring lore and upsetting some of your players who built their characters around the fact that Wood Elves have had sneak bonuses. You are choosing to remain steadfast in your position to maintain lore inaccuracy and the racial dismantling of builds that were specifically built around a lore-inspired theme and play style.
    I quoted the whole thing because it needed to be repeated. But I disagree with the getting why they removed it. It was silly to remove it. It remains silly. Did Bretons get their bonus to magic removed because Altmer already had it? Why do Reguards get a bonus to stamina, isn't that a Bosmer exclusive? Of course not, and it's ridiculous to think it necessary in order to make the races distinct. The whole issue with stealth has been completely mismanaged and was ill-conceived from the start.

    Not sure why you "disagree with the getting why they removed it." You're disagreeing with a fact -- we understand why ZOS did it because they straight up told us their reasoning for why they removed it when they said:

    "A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives."
    Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

    We definitely understand why they made the choice they did because they told us. Their reasoning doesn't make sense, however, so that is the part worth disagreeing about.
    Edited by GrumpyDuckling on February 19, 2019 12:34PM
  • TheRealSniker
    TheRealSniker
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Disgustedchu.png

    Not sure if this post is a meme or not, why are people on forums so misinformed
    Edited by TheRealSniker on February 19, 2019 1:16PM
  • olsborg
    olsborg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    2) Weird, Conditional Penetration Bonus
    In the PTS Notes v4.3.2 developer comments you stated that you didn't want to add more passive power to Bosmer. That's fine, but the conditional penetration bonus after a roll dodge is just weird in how it fits into the game. Why not follow the suggestion above, and remove the bonus to move speed (which has already proved to cause PVP concern) in favor of reduced cost for dodge roll (which makes more sense) and then implement a flat penetration bonus that is active at all times? You would be taking some power away (move speed) and adding a little power elsewhere (flat penetration bonus). If there would be balance issues with a flat bonus, then consider reducing the total amount of penetration that the flat bonus gives -- it doesn't have to be as high as the 1500 penetration that is currently tied to Hunter's Eye dodge roll.

    Yea that, agreed.
    Edited by olsborg on February 19, 2019 1:11PM
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
    Imperial Templar, stamina
    Redguard Warden, stamina

    Aldmeri Dominion!
    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Marcus_Thracius
    Marcus_Thracius
    ✭✭✭
    frankly stopped giving a rats a** about it - just move on and dont sub they say - well its done - free to play i dont mind then
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    You do not represent an entire community,

    I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.

    Everyone want their favourite race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.

    I am fine with Bosmer changes!
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on February 19, 2019 2:23PM
  • Kuramas9tails
    Kuramas9tails
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eiron77 wrote: »
    Bosmer are a dead-end race now.
    If that's the goal, they succeeded.
    Good. Creepy little cannibals.
      Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
      New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
      AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
      AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
      FOR THE QUEEN!
      PS4/NA
    • Starlight_Knight
      Starlight_Knight
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      They seriously need to take out that weird penetration bonus!
      Warden Lives Matter!
    • Crown
      Crown
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      We definitely understand why they made the choice they did because they told us. Their reasoning doesn't make sense, however, so that is the part worth disagreeing about.

      Welcome to how PvP players have felt since 1.5.
      Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
      PvP Guides @ DarkElves.com
      Naitachal | AD Templar | Grand Overlord
      Crown Templar | AD Templar | Naitachal is already a Grand Overlord, so I made another Templar
      Nait | AD DK | Not a Grand Overlord
      Coroin | AD MagWarden | Also not a Grand Overlord
      Common Sense | AD StamWarden | Likes His Name, But Is Too Lazy To Even Think About Grand Overlord
      Fail Sorc | AD Sorc | Thinks Trying To Reach Grand Overlord Would Be A Bad Idea
      Necronomicrown | AD Necromancer | Remove Faction Locks and he Might one day be a Grand Overlord
      Coronar | DC Templar | Will Probably Never be a Grand Overlord
      Rematar | EP Templar | Is Too Disillusioned By The Current State Of The Game to Consider AP Farming
      Wyre | EP Sorc | The First Sorc Is Named Fail Sorc For A Reason
      Bloody Crown | EP Warden | Got Bored With Templar & Fail @ Sorc
    • GrumpyDuckling
      GrumpyDuckling
      ✭✭✭✭✭
      ✭✭✭
      BlueRaven wrote: »
      32205444207_242e8862a8_c.jpg

      Haha, sneaking while Imperial costs 3% less, I assume?
    Sign In or Register to comment.