Introducing ⭐"CP 1.5"⭐ - An alternative suggestion to the CP 2.0 revamp

bluebird

Hi all, I'd like to suggest a different CP system - one that is somewhere between CP 1.0 and CP 2.0 Let's call this CP 1.5.

Many people have concerns that CP 2.0 feels rushed-conceived and is more contrived than the first, so it probably shouldn't be pushed to live after only a few weeks of testing. Since the new CP revamp will determine the endgame progression of ESO for years to come, I think it should be examined again, and questioned whether some things are better/worse or even necessary. ESO won't get another chance to re-envision its endgame content, so now is the time to take a look at what it's doing well, what it could do better, and how much sense it makes compared to other games' endgame progression systems.
_____
tl;dr version:

1. Keep power shifted from CP more towards levelup as you did, to reduce the power gap
2. Improve the UI to be less busy and more clear
3. Divide 3 constellations into 9 sensible constellations again
4. Remove linear gating requirements - the 4-slot limit is enough
5. Re-evaluate passive bonus vs. slottable perk division, and add diminishing returns
6. Add a loadout system, and consider impact on min-maxing
7. Reduce CP from ridiculous 3600 to 360
8. Consider the future of the system with regards to expandability, power creep, horizontal vs vertical progression

_____

1. The shifting of player power from cp gain towards level-gain was a good change.
This reduces the gap between 0cp and 3600cp players into a more manageable degree. The reduction of overall bonuses you can get from most CP stars (e.g. max 10% instead of max 25%) is also a good step to make the power curve less steep. However, this rebalancing of stats could have been done with the current CP system too, so it's not a recommendation for the CP tree revamp itself.

2. Performance and UI Improvements
You mentioned the strain that the CP system had on your servers due to the many calculations that were needed, so I'm not going to debate that, you know best what changes were needed for that. The CP 1.5 suggestion below will therefore use your own CP 2.0 perks only (with changes to arrangement, requirements and point distribution, etc). I didn't add my own suggestions here, or remove any of the perks (even if I think some of them won't ever be used since they need to be slotted but others will be better to slot over them in any scenario).

That said, whatever else you may or may not change, the UI needs to be better. The sub-constellations are super clunky (more below on whether they are really necessary), the background image is far too intense, the requirement lines are almost invisible (more on below whether they are really needed at all), slotted and passive stars should be more distinct (consider large circles for slottable perks - since the bar has circle slots on it - and smaller squares or something for passive bonuses).

3. Untangle the mushed-up 3 constellations into reasonable divisions
The issue with CP was never the fact that there were 9 separate constellations. The change from 9 constellations to 3 resulted in great many mixed bags, with a loss of sense and cumbersome solutions like sub-constellations within constellations. It's jumbled, busy, and not a friendly UI. The linear constellations and their complicated path is similar to Skyrim, but the actual theme of the trees makes much less sense than Skyrim. I suggest some more reasonable division, like we had in Skyrim. For example, Destruction, Restoration and Block could have dps-oriented, healing-oriented and defense-oriented constellation rather than having them in the same Blue tree. The green points I divided into Augmentation, Mercantile, and Crafting. And for Red I tried to add most things that could fall under the category of Fitness. Though of course I think the functionality and logic of an endgame progression system is more important than the looks or keeping three arbitrary colours coded or having lore-appropriate symbolism - but I just copy-pasted the Skyrim Perk symbols, lol.


I might also be worth considering to move some perks around. In the new system most super-useful perks are all in blue, red has the second-best ones, and green is marginally useful. This will heavily favour 1 type of CP point, rather than all of them contributing equally. Having every 2nd or 3rd CP levelup do nothing to catch you up to your friends who are way ahead of you in power thanks to their piles of extra blue points isn't going to make people feel better about a bonus in merchant item sales, you know. Below is a tentative suggestion of how to separate the mixed bag of 3 constellations into more focused trees. I tried to group perks together sensibly, and tried to add something useful for every CP point colour (so green isn't that useless). This grouping is of course just an example, I'm free to suggestions, this is just my opinion. I just think it would be better to have separate trees instead of the constellations within constellations in only three.



It is also somewhat strange that you have DLC-specific bonuses in the core CP tree (not even somewhere separate, but in the middle of a line); Blade of Woe is not a core mechanic. GW2 also has bonuses dedicated to DLC content, but they have separate Mastery Lines for that (and frankly, you have separate DLC Skill Lines for that). It can also be a fun idea to include this in CP as horizontal progression - allowing us to do more things in more parts of the world. But if you will add DLC-specific perks into the core progression system instead of their specific Skill Lines, then please do so as a SEPARATE stand-alone perk, not built into linear requirements.

4. Reconsider whether linear progression is needed at all
It feels terrible to know that I will HAVE to take a perk I don't want, and spend 75 stars (having to wait for over 225 cp levels !!!) just to progress past it to get what I DO want. CP 1.0 didn't need such restricted linear pathing, and consider that those were all passives. Now, most CP perks need to be slotted to even activate, so the restriction of only being able to use 4 at a time should be enough to restrict our free choices, so all perks should be freely levelable without predetermined paths. Skyrim's linear system made sense because they were incredibly focused (e.g. Novice Destruction, Adept Destruction, Master Destruction) and built upon each other, while ESO's perks are more spread out.

5. Reconsider passives and must-slot perks, and add diminishing returns to prevent power gaps
The hypothetical cut-off point in performance, after which cp gains don't matter that much is far higher than advertised, due to passive perks that don't require slotting. Sure, 15% to all healing done doesn't seem like a big power move for a DD, but when every DD and Tank in a group has that in addition to the healers, and they don't require slotting, differences like that add up in group content. Let's assume that a 810CP and a maxCP player choose the same slottable perks:

The 810CP player will spend their 270 blue points, and slot: 165 Spell dmg, 10% Crit dmg, 10% ST dmg, 10% DoT dmg, and will have some CP left for passives, and choose 800 Crit rating, and 700 Pen. The maxCP player will have CP left over to spend on passives on top of that. So in addition to all the above, they get extra 1050 Pen, 150% chance to apply status effects, 100 Spell dmg, 1300 Magicka, 5% Healing taken, 5% less phys dmg taken, 5% less mag dmg taken, 15% less dmg taken from NPCs, 5% more healing done, 10% AoE healing bonus, 10% ST healing bonus, 10% HoT healing bonus. The maxCP player will then spend further 100 blue points in the 10% AoE damage slottable, and the one that explodes dying targets with status effects on them for 4000 dmg to enemies around them, so they can switch their slottables for those in high-AoE fights (the 810CP player will ofc not have enough points to unlock such options and will perform subpar to players who have unlocked those options too).

If I made a mistake in those calculations, I apologize - but straightup bonuses don't seem to be better with the 3600 CP system at all, when now there are no dimishing returns and most combat bonuses are all in blue so it takes higher overall CP to get the same bonuses we got at lower levels in CP 1.0 spread-out version.

Many of the perks mentioned above are passives, to everybody with enough CP will just have them all the time, and will add continuous bonuses over time without having to branch out or choose between them. For flat-out passive bonuses, the required CP is 2940 in total, and 'branching out' only happens after that (so for example getting 4 maxed slottable skills and maxed passives will take 980 Blue; and then branching out into the AoE setup option in addition to the ST setup will take 1080). This is of course insane. Flat-out power gains should not continue up to and over 3000cp!!! And if you insist on having a mix of actives and passives, they should at the bare minimum have diminishing returns to flatten the power curve.


6. If you stay with the 'must slot to activate' bar system, you need to have a loadout system in the core game at the very least.
Since you switched away from passives to perks that need to be slotted, this will create huge inconvenience for most players. Honestly, most non-combat bonuses should be passives that are always enabled like they were in CP 1.0 (surely a flatout passive increase to Treasurefinding isn't overly hard for your calculations). Otherwise, people will have to have a loadout for harvesting, for treasure looting and merchant-selling which they switch constantly. Since it is free to switch these any time, the bad feeling from not having the right ones equipped will outweigh the bad feeling of having to micromanage loadouts every time - it won't be bad enough that people won't do it, but it will feel bad to have to do it (in order to be efficient). So PC players will have yet another inconvenient mandatory AddOn to manage, and console players will be left frustrated.

Not to mention to issue with freely-switchable actives. Horizontal progression isn't truly horizontal when having more CP makes players BiS in every scenario. Sure the 810cp and the 3600cp player have the same 4 maxed out ST dmg slottables, but (even ignoring the extra passive bonuses they have) the maxCP player will switch to their BiS AoE setup on the AoE boss, and the self-sustain self-heal setup on the 'you-need-to-solo-some-mob-separately' or the 'do-some-special-mechanic' boss, while the low-CP player will be stuck with their suboptimal ST loadout because they have no other options unlocked. This is the issue that happened with WoW's Soulbind and Conduit system, where the 'right way to play' (and what was expected) was to have a BiS setup on an encounter basis, which further widened skill gap. This is the reason why WoW disabled Talent switching outside of rested areas, and why they have a weekly cooldown on respeccing Soulbinds, and why you can only switch your active perks once per day. That's the same reason there is a CP respec cost: expecting people to respec for every encounter was unreasonable with diminishing returns and the respec cost; but the freely switchable slottable perks and the huge impact of having several slottables maxed out available for any situation will become a reasonable expectation, becoming yet another thing that noobs can't do that allows good players and highCPplayers to pull ahead.


7. Reduce the number of CP from the pointlessly inflated 3600.
Before, we had 36 passives available and could dump 100 points in each (theoretically, spendable CP was of course capped at 810), and each of these points increased the % by some amount. In CP 2.0 however, most perks need 10 / 25 / 50 points to activate their stages, with some requiring 100 to even unlock their one effect. It takes a 100 points to increase fish biting speed by 25%. 50 points increase single-target dmg by 10% overall. These bloated numbers are entirely arbitrary. Just reduce CP and CP costs to a tenth, and it will be much more reasonable.

This will reduce the insane 'void' that results from having 75 - 100 - 120 points needed to unlock the next star (which would take up to 360 CP levels with nothing to show for it to get 120 points of the same colour). This will be much more friendly for new players too, because trust me 'Welcome to ESO, Grats on max level, you only have 3590 CP left to farm now, woohoo! is a terrible, terrible inflated system in any game. Consider that WoW reduced its max level from 120 to 60 to make it more reasonable, and GW2 has a max level of 80 with 351 mastery points (which they keep adding to, so that doesn't prevent them from having an expandable system for the future). You can also adjust CP XP acquisition so the speed with which people level up 1 CP is the same as the time it took to level up 10 CP in your 3600 system. But the system will seem less inflated, levelups will feel more impactful (rather than nothing for the next 100 points), and it will make point distribution (those plus minus signs, ugh) a better experience. But honestly, just let go of the 3600 number idea please.

8. Consider whether the 3 colours and 4 active perks bar is the best way to expand the game going forward.
For example if you're going to allow the slotting of 5 perks instead of 4, or allow spending of more CP into perks themselves to make them scale higher, this will increase vertical progression not horizontal one, just like when we were getting an increase in the cp cap every patch before. But if you don't do that, then any blue points we continue to earn will be useless. Ideally, combat-related bonuses should be maxed out first, then utility stuff, then roleplay npc nonsense. So performance gap should be closed earlier in the cp curve, with smaller bonuses trickling in later and just horizontal progression towards the end. In GW2 for example, the mastery system is entirely horizontal progression, and it's still very popular and continues to be expanded on, WITHOUT adding a 3month-grind-gap between 0 mastery and 351 mastery players. So while CP 2.0 with the Mage /Thief / Warrior divide and the different coloured CP points is lore-friendly I guess, doing what's best for the game is more important than hanging on to older models.

_____

These are just some suggestions which (in my opinion) would be more player-friendly, more sensible and would meet the goal of reduced vertical power curve. Of course, these are just initial ideas - it's certainly far from perfect, and there are other things to consider (such as revising many possibly useless traits, and balancing issues of some CP perks giving far too much power relative to others, and the speed it takes to level up to max CP). But I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions.

What do you think CP 2.0 does better? What do you think is a change for the worse compared to CP 1.0?
Do you agree with any of my 'CP 1.5' suggestions, and do you have other ideas?

Foto1

I agree on all points. you managed to unite all the clever thoughts from this forum. why don't you work in zos yet?)

Jackey

Yes I like this. Wouldn't really be as concerned if this is how they did it.

bluebird

Foto1 wrote: »

I agree on all points. you managed to unite all the clever thoughts from this forum. why don't you work in zos yet?)

Lol! While it's probably not true that players could do better than ZOS in every situation (there must be a reason they are game devs and we aren't right), sometimes I think we find that on some topics, players have better ideas than devs (because we use a gamer perspective and spend way more time playing the game). The many responses on the feedback thread (many of which said the same things) is proof of that.

We often see this on PTS testing where it takes players to point out flaws in their changes (and often this feedback is ignored, or it takes one or two more patches for them to go back on the change), so it is super important to get a big game-defining system like CP right. I hope the devs can take another closer look at their suggested changes, and think about whether it would really be the system they would come up with from scratch, or whether they are trying to duct-tape together some disjointed parts from old remains and ill-fitting new directions.

To be honest, I think even the old CP system would be better (just with less performance issues and more flat numbers instead of %-s or whatever), or a classic 'choose one per each row' with some key passives and some powerful enabled abilities (like WoW's Conduit layout) would be better than their CP 2.0 suggestion - which seemed to borrow from both Skyrim and WoW, but came up with something worse overall.

Zayoo

Well that's some nice ideas... But unfortunately that's never gonna happen. Just imagine how long it took ZoS to create the CP 2.0. They won't throw away all the work they have done (I certainly wouldn't) and in that delay a revamp for another 6 months...

bluebird

Zayoo wrote: »

Well that's some nice ideas... But unfortunately that's never gonna happen. Just imagine how long it took ZoS to create the CP 2.0. They won't throw away all the work they have done (I certainly wouldn't) and in that delay a revamp for another 6 months...

I understand, but it's more important to get it right, than to get it out fast in my opinion. We've been stuck at 810cp for the past 2 years (and there are many players, old and new, who still aren't 810cp). A few more months wouldn't make a difference.

But an MMO endgame progression system - especially when they are trying to address vertical vs horizontal progression, and plan to use the system to expand in the future - needs to be good enough for years to come. It needs to be the best system it can possibly be, to safely build upon it, with slots where new additions can sensibly be grafted onto it; rather than launching with issues that they then need to adjust and revise into the future.

This happened with WoW several times - they introduced a new endgame progression system that turned out terrible (in many cases due to rushed testing cycles), so rather than building upon it they had to change and revise the initial setup again and again. Looking at CP 2.0 there certainly seem to be a few similar question marks ??? as to how some changes make sense and why some of these are even necessary.

olsborg

One thing I really, really agree on is that 3600 max cp is way, way too high, that just means one day you will have everything unlocked and the choices many ppl have now soon will be gone, because you will have it all. And alot of ppl are gonna grind already so as to avoid having to choose. Choices are always good, make max cp be at around the 2000 mark so ppl can never get everything.

Barbaran

This took alot of time, it's unfortunate that no one of importance will read it or take anything from it.

phantasmalD

bluebird wrote: »

3. Untangle the mushed-up 3 constellations into reasonable divisions
It's jumbled, busy, and not a friendly UI.

It might be busy indeed but I disagree that it's inherently jumbled. The blue tree actually is very well laid out where the left side is healing, right is damage with +crit chilling in between the two and the body is protective perks. The other two trees are less well laid out but can be fixed by reordeing the perks a bit, no real need to break them up into other trees.

As for sub-constellations, one reason given for their existance is to make the CP system infinitely expendable, allowing new stars to be added without having to redraw the constellation paths.

Not to mention to issue with freely-switchable actives. Horizontal progression isn't truly horizontal when having more CP makes players BiS in every scenario. Sure the 810cp and the 3600cp player have the same 4 maxed out ST dmg slottables, but (even ignoring the extra passive bonuses they have) the maxCP

If we succesfully manage to tackle the issue of vertical power difference due to the high amount of passives, then the greater active flexibility remains the only benefit of high CP. If you make it impossible to freely swap them out then you might as well just delete the extra levels as they are entirely pointless.

they should at the bare minimum have diminishing returns to flatten the power curve.

This isn't diminishing returns. Diminishing return would be A. less percentage for the same number of CP points or B. the same percentage requiring more CP.
What you have here is uneven milestones.

4. Reconsider whether linear progression is needed at all
It feels terrible to know that I will HAVE to take a perk I don't want, and spend 75 stars (having to wait for over 225 cp levels !!!) just to progress past it to get what I DO want. CP 1.0 didn't need such restricted linear pathing, and consider that those were all passives. Now, most CP perks need to be slotted to even activate, so the restriction of only being able to use 4 at a time should be enough to restrict our free choices, so all perks should be freely levelable without predetermined paths. Skyrim's linear system made sense because they were incredibly focused (e.g. Novice Destruction, Adept Destruction, Master Destruction) and built upon each other, while ESO's perks are more spread out.

Some of the path makes sense. Like the healing (left side) path on the blue tree. You go from general healing done% to specialized healing boost to a slottable, healing related perk.
It's mostly the green tree where the progression and perk layout doesn't really make sense currently.

Something important to take away from this picture: the individual passives in a row are exclusive; choosing one makes the other one(s) unavailable. I think that's the thing missing from CP 2.0 to make the current amount of passives balanced and to bring down the high vertical progression ceilling, it bit of exclusionarity.

7. Reduce the number of CP from the pointlessly inflated 3600.

It really is a daunting number. The only benefit of keeping it so high is that it gives the illusion of faster progression, as gaining a new level every day feels faster than gaining one every week. A psychological deception, where you only notice that you haven't really progressed anything, despite the triumphant level up sound, if you really look behind the scenes.

Well, there's one more benefit: having numbers from 1 to 100 instead of 1 to 10 allows you to setup better jumping points in CP perk progressions. You can't really setup a 2.5 point requirement but you can do a 25 one. But they got rid of the diminishing returns, so that point currently is kinda moot.

bluebird

phantasmalD wrote: »

they should at the bare minimum have diminishing returns to flatten the power curve.

This isn't diminishing returns. Diminishing return would be A. less percentage for the same number of CP points or B. the same percentage requiring more CP. What you have here is uneven milestones.

What I meant that the first 10 points give 250 crit, the next 10 points give 200, the next 10 give 150 and so forth.

I guess I screwed up on the image - I meant to convey that the first stage has a bigger impact than the next, and so on with subsequent stages with diminishing returns. But doing so on the blue bar was in retrospect a bad idea as it actually shows the CP point cost and not the Crit value increase (d'oh). I'll edit it, thanks for pointing that out!

It might be busy indeed but I disagree that it's inherently jumbled. The blue tree actually is very well laid out where the left side is healing, right is damage with +crit chilling in between the two and the body is protective perks. The other two trees are less well laid out but can be fixed by reordeing the perks a bit, no real need to break them up into other trees.

As for sub-constellations, one reason given for their existance is to make the CP system infinitely expendable, allowing new stars to be added without having to redraw the constellation paths.

They already added 2 extra constellations, they just now need two more clicks to get in and out of, because they put them inside a star that's inside the blue tree. It's really unnecessarily complicated. It also makes it harder to oversee at one glance what perks are available, and they already created a new background artwork and new line layouts for them (and likely would for other subconstellations), so doing the same for a separate tree wouldn't be any harder.

The reason they added subconstellations (I assume) was because they filled out all of the image of the Mage in the background (healing on the staff, defense at the bottom, etc) and shoving in all those extra blue-point spenders in the main frame would have made it even more busy. There's no reason to sink those particular damage or those defense stars into a subconstellation, but not the others, their division is pretty arbitrary.

If we succesfully manage to tackle the issue of vertical power difference due to the high amount of passives, then the greater active flexibility remains the only benefit of high CP. If you make it impossible to freely swap them out then you might as well just delete the extra levels as they are entirely pointless.

There is some wiggling room between making it impossible to freely swap and between being able to swap to anything at any time anywhere. If it's always free, you get the kind of min-maxing BiS loadout minigame where a large chunk of our gameplay involves dragging in and dragging out perks from a bar, back and forth, several times every day, until all eternity. (Or for the PC privilege crew, having to keybind three or four AddOn's loadouts to keep switching between.) And it would run into the problems that WoW's conduit system on the beta or the old free-talen-swap idea resulted in.

Possibly, we could increase CP respec cost (to encourage sticking with a setup, since the loadout can be freely tweaked), but this wouldn't apply to highCP players anymore. Alternatively, we could increase CP respec cost AND make it so that you can only swap your loadout (for free though) at a respec shrine or NPC in cities and at the start of a dungeon / trial / keep.

Mashille

This is some really well thought out, awesome work. Absolutely love reading stuff like this and I think most of your ideas are great, especially reducing numbers by 10x so that max CP is only 360 rather than 3600.

Lughlongarm

I think they should draw more inspire from the "Grim Dawn" devotion system. It is also based on star constellations which are separated into color categories.

BlazingDynamo

It took them like 3 years to come up with this system you really think they're gonna scrap it for someone randoms suggestion on the forums?

LoneStar2911

I think everything you said sounds great. I hope someone important gives it a read.

stefj68

its too late for that, they wont flush it right now and works on your idea... maybe in 3-4 years it will be at the agenda

Nordic__Knights

as an long time player this sounds way more like something id be down for where as 2.0 idk im going to grind it out but tbh my grinding days in eso are about over im getting into other areas of it and i just might give up PVP, dungeons, trials and arenas all together and just do nothing but crafting for gold then logging out lol great game its going to be

Dark_Lord_Kuro

bluebird wrote: »

Reduce CP from ridiculous 3600 to 360

Only 360 cp thats even more ridiculous than 3600

LoneStar2911

@Dark_Lord_Kuro did you really have to quote the entire post? Lmao

ExistingRug61

For those saying that its unlikely ZOS would scrap their new system given the time the probably spent working on it, I agree.
So things like rearranging into a different number of constellations or the changing the concept of the champion bar etc I think are not going to happen.

That said, there are definitely some ideas here that could easily be worked into the existing system without having to change too much, namely:
1) Adding some form of diminishing returns, especially in the case of the passive stars. The easiest way I see would be to make the cost of stages variable with lower cost for the first stage and then increase cost from there, with the total cost being the same.
2) Re assess the passive or slotted status of some stars - could make more combat related passives slotted to reduce vertical progression (but this would lower overall endgame power). Likewise could make more of the craft tree passive to reduce the need to swap between slotted stars when doing exploration activities like crafting, harvesting, opening chests, fencing etc.
3) More logical arrangement of stars in the current layout and potentially a reduction of "gating" - primarily applies to the craft tree.

Coopersnow

Great post well thought out. I agree that its a terrible decision to something that will frame the game for years to come with just 4 weeks of external testing. 4 weeks in R&D is nothing especially when 1 week is totally broken you can't be expected to make large changes in such a short lenght of time.

BUT, if they have to rush something out ASAP i would propose:
1. adding the diminishing returns you mentioned
2.rework how the stars are spread out (currently the blue one is too jam packed with the good stuff) like you said
3. do not force us to spend 1/3 of your points into any tree, let us have the choice that you keep mentioning all the time, if i want to put all my 810 points into blue let me put all my points into blue why do i need to go 270 green 270 blue 270 red makes no sense. This part i think is REALLY important and if the cp system has to go out as is this HAS to be implemented. Thats lets me put all my 810 cp during my trial into the blue tree since i really dont need none of the green and almost none of the red. And when im outside of the trial i can put all my points into the green tree. That makes low cp just go trough the trouble of respeccing a bit and rewards the high CP with just having it all the time.
4. make the stars non linear, let me put my cp where i want to i dont want to put 50 point here just to get the next passive that i actually want, again let us have the choice you keep raving on about. also like you said

Dark_Lord_Kuro

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

@Dark_Lord_Kuro did you really have to quote the entire post? Lmao

Absolutly😁
Edited the quote for you

Nerhesi

I agree on almost all points - but I do feel you need to remove all passives that affect combat. Period.

Stop giving free bonuses to everyone or gating them behind super long grinds. In the end, they only hurt your balance efforts or ultimately do not add any value (because they'd apply to everyone equally).

I'm not a big fan of most other MMOs, but ultimately there is a reason they almost all stepped away from boring +x% based talent systems and passive bonuses and instead implemented a "pick a significant adjustment" sort of thing. Basically, making powerful slottables and no free passives.

DonGodJoe

[snip] nothing is live or finished yet, they introduced you a new CP system so you can inspect it ... i doubt they are that "unexperienced" to leave experience gain line in the same way as it is now because that would kill more than 80% of player base which aren't even 1k CP now.

@phantasmalD is correct also with the benefit of having more CP

[Edited to remove Baiting]

bluebird

stefj68 wrote: »

its too late for that, they wont flush it right now and works on your idea... maybe in 3-4 years it will be at the agenda

Almost everything I listed in already in the game. And the rest is just deleting a 0 here or there, nothing would need to be added. That's why I called it 1.5, because almost everything is already in the current CP 1.0 or CP 2.0. so it wouldn't need extensive development from the ground up, they already have the functions in place from Live and the PTS.

- Separating perks more reasonably: the current CP system has that, with 9 constellations. The system is there for it.
- Changing the UI: CP 1.0 has a more even layout rather than constellation-ception and busy hard-to-see backgrounds.
- Removing/revising the linear requirements: the CP 1.0 system has that, and 2.0 also has unlimited perks on the side.
- All the perks are perks from CP 2.0, that they have added, nothing new would need developing, only UI-changed.
- Change the free-switching: CP respec costs and Shrine respec requirements already exist in game.
- Change passive/active perk status: Both passive and active perks are in 2.0 so the system exists for both.
- Reducing CP from 3600 to 360: You just take a 0 from point costs and add a 0 to xp needed to level. No other change. The speed at which people gain CP is a different topic, and can be adjusted separately.

As you see for most changes, they could literally take CP 1.0 from Live, replace the perks with their new fixed-value versions, adjust value decimals, and just add the champion bar. All of that is already there. I didn't suggest anything revolutionary, but worked with what CP 1.0 had, what CP 2.0 added, and what fits in with other TES games and lore.

So I specifically wrote the post with the current systems in mind. Given a free slate, I think a system like WoW's would be better where people choose a specialized talent or soulbind or conduit setup from several options, rather than being rewarded with piles and piles of passive bonuses nearly indefinitely (up to +3000cp), and having to play a drag-in drag-out minigame just to activate passives that we've had all the time enabled in CP 1.0. Where is the improvement here, exactly? Many other posts are already discussing the alleged benefits of CP 2.0 and the things that it didn't solve at all, and some things that it does actually worse.

AyaDark

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559806/how-do-really-good-cp-system-looks-like#latest

Why just not to add active CP skills ?

Skills slot are limited it will add a lot of fun with no overpowering.

Troodon80

DonGodJoe wrote: »

[snip]

I don't think you realise that psychology also plays a huge part here. A new player joins and is immediately greeted with "Welcome to ESO, enjoy the slog all the way to 3600!" and it will turn them off the game. It wouldn't matter if each CP only took 100k XP to reach. It's the sheer size of the number that will deflate interest in getting the maximum. It slows down at 1200 and they realise ~6 months in that they're not even half way there.

Elo106

Zos needs to hire OP. This is the way.

Ocelot9x

Nice efforts op but we know that they won't redo the system. They will tweak some parts but don't expect anything too big.

Coopersnow

Zos read this some more

Kurat

Why does everyone think they need 3000cp? This is why we have so many people in this game who don't know how to play. They grind mindlessly to reach 810 and then do barely 10k dps in dungeons. Just learn to play and enjoy, around 900-1200cp is all you need to be competitive with the new system. Beyond that it's just convenience and maybe 2-3k dps gain.
Everyone wants to max out quick so they can complain again that theres no progression. Lmao

bluebird

Kurat wrote: »

Why does everyone think they need 3000cp? This is why we have so many people in this game who don't know how to play. They grind mindlessly to reach 810 and then do barely 10k dps in dungeons. Just learn to play and enjoy, around 900-1200cp is all you need to be competitive with the new system. Beyond that it's just convenience and maybe 2-3k dps gain. Everyone wants to max out quick so they can complain again that theres no progression. Lmao

'900-1200 cp is all you need to be competitive'? Do you play competitive game modes? I'd love to see you with 900cp dueling the same builds with 2900cp, or make a trial group full of 810s and another group with 2900s and we can see who times HMs on the leaderboard.

270 red points (810 cp)
1400 Max HP (slotted)
15% longer CC-immunity (slotted)
10% dmg reduction while immune to CC (slotted)
1 free Break Free every 21 seconds (slotted)
480 Stam reduction for Roll Dodge
110 Stam reduction of Break Free

790 red points (2370 cp) includes ^ ALL of the above PLUS passive:
+ 400 Stam reduction of Break Free extra
+ 25% reduction of Elemental effects on you
+ 1400 HP
+ 3 meter Stealth detection
+ 10% faster Sprint
+ 100 Stam reduction of Sprint
+ 100 Stam reduction of Block
+ 600 bonus damage to Bash
+ 20% more damage Blocked

In the blue tree, they can continue earning no-slotting-needed passives up to 2900cp, such as 15% extra healing, 5% extra healing taken and 5% less damage taken, 1750 offensive penetration, etc.on top of the general damage perks that a 810cp player can get. And that's not even counting the fact that even higher cp players will have all useful slottable perks maxed out and ready to go, so they can switch from their AoE setup to their ST setup on the fly, without any restriction like CP respec costs. This will only make good players more BiS and noobs less good (CP 1.0. required them to pick good perks once; CP 2.0 would require them to pick good perks, and keep changing them appropriately for every situation).

So yeah, while in CP 1.0 a player with 810cp was absolutely 100% competitive with 810cp or even 3000cp players, in CP 2.0, the new bar for being on par is around 2900cp. Also, I'm pretty tired of the 'you don't need to' argument. Sure, nothing is technically required. You're not forced to play the game, you don't have to win, and noobs don't have to not get kicked from every group content. MMOs don't revolve around what's technically required, it's about what's relatively expected.