please revert heals being group only in pvp (WE DID IT! its being rolled back!)

Raevyness

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They ruined healing in PvP. I think it was a bad mistake for them to do it.

I stopped playing PvP after they made that change. Maybe I'll try PvPing again later at Midyear Mayhem, but it killed a lot of my desire to do it.

Agree...Im in Australia and play mostly out of peak.. PVP scale is SMALL already to begin with. Then we've just got some pugs who just want to solo dont want to do anything too serious like coordinating attacks etc. Now I play on peak occasionally as a healer because y'know theres actually something to do, heal people.. And now they've literally taken that away..

I dont know WHO thought this would be a good idea, you've got 3 main ways to play (although some over lap), DPS, Heals, Tank. They've literally nerfed 1/3 of the gameplay style thats like 1 in 3...
Im retiring out my healer I refuse to play it now. I WONT play in PVP or PVE either. So goodluck to all. And well done to ZOS for just ruining the "ESO Nurses".

aetherial_heavenn

Jaraal wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

The healing change is the best thing to happen to eso pvp in a long time. No more unkillable zergs

@Thrusts-His-Spear

So, I haven’t been in cyrodil for a couple months but I hear with the proc set groups are still unkillable despite the healer changes?

They are even stronger than they were before since they still can heal each other, but many of the players they farm cannot.

This is absolutely the truth. Ball groups are feasting on collections of solo players who can't help each other now. And PUG leaders aren't inviting unknowns because the smaller group size forces them to only add known PvPers they know can function efficiently to succeed.

But ZOS says they like these behaviors. Lag and disconnects are worse than ever, so it can't be performance related. So welcome to the new 12v12v12 ball group battleground meta. Solo players and large learning groups not welcome.

Proc sets being OP and ball groups having too much access to group /heals purge without penalty have been the most consistent complaints from forum writers in my reading.
Certain streamers/celebrity players have been calling for nerfs to solo/zerg healers for 3years.

ZoS listened to the latter. Implemented a change that nullified the solo healer or pug group healers effectiveness and made the proc sets stupid strong so even less skill is required to get kills while simultaneously making the ball group brigade even more immortal.

In doing so they have killed zone LFG groups through group size changes, made it nearly impossible for new support style players to get anywhere in open world PvP because they can't find a non guild group and are slaughtered in zergs/seige/faction v faction fights.

Meanwhile put on a restro, for radiating regen, a purge/cleanse from your class, spam an aoe DPS skill and zerg surf and rack up AP, and even kills if you get a few random dots on. You don't even have to wear a cheese set. Corporal to Sergeant doing just this in a couple of hours yesterday. Playing DPS as a soloer zerg surfer is too effing easy.

All they had to do was make resto heals (radiating regen/illustrious healing/blessed protection/ward) purge and vigour affect yourself/ group. And maybe nerf resto in Cyro through battle spirit. So DPs are encouraged to run with a support player. Leave the rest of heal skills alone to work as before. Soloers would have self heals, solo healers would bring something to the table soloing (like when pugs are sieging).

Yeah, ball groups will still have a purge/regen bots but that job is so tedious that most real healers will eventually look to other ways to play. There are so many issues with coordinated group roles and voice led play skill levels versus losely grouped pugs, I really don't think they can be addressed easily. The heal changes have just made this difference even worse.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

eso_lags wrote: »

Best change ever. You guys dont actually want to solo, no what you want is to chase down solo players with randoms while still being able to heal them. No. But you still will chase actual solo players down with a random group and thank god you wont be able to heal them. You already have the advantage, you dont need more.

Again, one of the best changes they ever made. right along side the group size. Plus its good for performance. Its a step in the right direction for once.

If you really want to randomly heal people find a heal that can still heal others. I dont play a healer, and never will, but ive seen people healing randoms with cauterize. Not sure what else does it.

Maybe next patch they should the should make it impossible to block attack from enemy your group isnt currently damaging and make dps unable to damage people from more than 1 group at the same time

This would even the playing field accross the 3 role

Starlight_Whisper

Devs don't heal obviously. Why are healers like they are right now?

Raevyness

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

The healing change is the best thing to happen to eso pvp in a long time. No more unkillable zergs

@Thrusts-His-Spear

So, I haven’t been in cyrodil for a couple months but I hear with the proc set groups are still unkillable despite the healer changes?

They are even stronger than they were before since they still can heal each other, but many of the players they farm cannot.

This is absolutely the truth. Ball groups are feasting on collections of solo players who can't help each other now. And PUG leaders aren't inviting unknowns because the smaller group size forces them to only add known PvPers they know can function efficiently to succeed.

But ZOS says they like these behaviors. Lag and disconnects are worse than ever, so it can't be performance related. So welcome to the new 12v12v12 ball group battleground meta. Solo players and large learning groups not welcome.

Proc sets being OP and ball groups having too much access to group /heals purge without penalty have been the most consistent complaints from forum writers in my reading.
Certain streamers/celebrity players have been calling for nerfs to solo/zerg healers for 3years.

ZoS listened to the latter. Implemented a change that nullified the solo healer or pug group healers effectiveness and made the proc sets stupid strong so even less skill is required to get kills while simultaneously making the ball group brigade even more immortal.

In doing so they have killed zone LFG groups through group size changes, made it nearly impossible for new support style players to get anywhere in open world PvP because they can't find a non guild group and are slaughtered in zergs/seige/faction v faction fights.

Meanwhile put on a restro, for radiating regen, a purge/cleanse from your class, spam an aoe DPS skill and zerg surf and rack up AP, and even kills if you get a few random dots on. You don't even have to wear a cheese set. Corporal to Sergeant doing just this in a couple of hours yesterday. Playing DPS as a soloer zerg surfer is too effing easy.

All they had to do was make resto heals (radiating regen/illustrious healing/blessed protection/ward) purge and vigour affect yourself/ group. And maybe nerf resto in Cyro through battle spirit. So DPs are encouraged to run with a support player. Leave the rest of heal skills alone to work as before. Soloers would have self heals, solo healers would bring something to the table soloing (like when pugs are sieging).

Yeah, ball groups will still have a purge/regen bots but that job is so tedious that most real healers will eventually look to other ways to play. There are so many issues with coordinated group roles and voice led play skill levels versus losely grouped pugs, I really don't think they can be addressed easily. The heal changes have just made this difference even worse.

Exactly this!! Nothing's become "better".

All they have done is:
1. Ruin 1/3 of people's fun and play style (as a healer), rendering solo or new healers as useless.
2. Allow others to become disproportionatly stronger, thus rewarding the grouped/guilded players, over new, returning and soloing players
3. Made groups smaller thus tearing people apart more than bring them together, thus everyone is just playing solo
4. Made more pvp chaos - where people don't know which fort to run to protect/take smaller groups = less control which takes away from the MMO pvp experience. If I wanted a small skirmish I'd play battlegrounds. I'm here for the LOTR style wars, not 12vs12 because the rest of the un grouped players have no clue where people are & have given up and logged off.
5. Given more populous factions an advantage in coordinating several 12 men groups for multiple takes at once, giving other struggling factions with less population and coordinating 0 chance of winning.


As a side note, in all my time on AD NA in the no CP standard pvp map, have I ever participated in a campaign where AD has actually won 1st place of the three factions.

I think the devs/zos need to look at the score boards & where factions are constantly winning, there's things that need addressing, and Nerfing healers out of existence in PVP in all my 15 plus years playing MMOs has NEVER been a thing I've witnessed in a game as a "solution " to any problem. Why not just remove the class?? Since majority of temp/warden healing skills are useless in a causal pvp setting...

Eiregirl

Since healers cannot heal anyone who is not in a group with them maybe ZOS should make it so that if you are in a group you can only damage enemy players who are in a group. Now wouldn't that be a fun time in cyro? HAHAHA

LonePirate

I wouldn't mind the healing and purge change if it had left everyone on an even playing field. Unfortunately, that certainly is not the case. I also wouldn't mind it if ball groups focused their efforts on other ball groups; but they avoid each other for reasons akin to professional courtesy despite many of them allegedly wanting good fights.

Sadly, I honestly don't think ZOS will do anything about the current imbalance in Cyrodiil. They are hiding behind the auspices of improved server performance and the mask of not truly caring about PVP. Does anyone really believe ZOS cares about PVP? It has been years since any sort of PVP was featured on one of the ESO Live broadcasts. That should tell you everything you need to know about what ZOS thinks of PVP (along with the long time gap since the last new battleground map). Don't hold your breath for an ESO Live show about PVP during the upcoming Midyear Mayhem event.

Raevyness

Eiregirl wrote: »

Since healers cannot heal anyone who is not in a group with them maybe ZOS should make it so that if you are in a group you can only damage enemy players who are in a group. Now wouldn't that be a fun time in cyro? HAHAHA

Y'know months back I would say thats a JOKE ZOS would never do that... Having seen what they've done to the healers. YUP 100% on board.

Y'know if I can't play as a healer ALONE, be in my choice OR lack of people if I cant CHOOSE how I want to play - as EVERY other player in the game can, then yeah. They're disadvantaging healers, literally ALL other class types (tanks, DPS) can play outside of a group. BUT I chose a healer so now I HAVE TO be in a group to play??

Yeah NAH.
Literally discrimination against healers, idc what people say. And I refuse to play a healer in ESO period now until I can actually DECIDE how I WANT to play my class, rather than ZOS tell me I HAVE to be SOCIAL in order to play and enjoy PVP.

Nope.

eso_lags

Raevyness wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Best change ever. You guys dont actually want to solo, no what you want is to chase down solo players with randoms while still being able to heal them. No. But you still will chase actual solo players down with a random group and thank god you wont be able to heal them. You already have the advantage, you dont need more.

Again, one of the best changes they ever made. right along side the group size. Plus its good for performance. Its a step in the right direction for once.

If you really want to randomly heal people find a heal that can still heal others. I dont play a healer, and never will, but ive seen people healing randoms with cauterize. Not sure what else does it.

You said it yourself.. You dont play as a healer and never well. So i'll just go right ahead and disregard your opinion on the matter.

I've played a healer on EVERY MMO for over 15 years of playing MMOs. This is one of the WORST decisions.
What does it actually accomplish??
As a healer heading into PVP and realizing, once again on AD NA, that we were highly outnumbered, with no large organized groups going up against EP and DC, defending forts with about 20 people maybe a few grouped (i suspect mostly not), I log in and see theres 20+ players about to be rolled by incoming EP, attempt to heal them in a bid to help defend the fort and guess what? We were rolled in 2 seconds and I couldn't even help. Prior to these changes MAYBE my heals could have helped slow down the attack, allow us to push them back out the gate & seal the breach and be a defend. But 20 pugs going against like 40 EP. We had 0 chance, especially now I cant even heal we've -80% chance. In fact we mose well have logged off and just handed them the keys to that fort.

It made no difference. These changes are KILLING the class. And I'll be the first to say it. I'm dropping playing a healer and playing something else. Period. Is this a MMO?? BEcause its not very massive if 1/3 of the play style cant actually play in PVP (meaning DPS, Tank, healer).

If you've played NA, AD before you'd realize numbers are already LOW the majority of the time (outside of peak), as an Australian player, I play MOSTLY out of peak, meaning PVP was already a soggy experience at that for me, but this... this really kills it.. This isn't PVP. We don't even stand a chance anymore without the big shot PVP guilds..

Oh well, make a group. Encourage people to make a group. Eventually they will learn. And i cant relate you what you are saying about your faction because i play DC on xbox. When i started I played EP but there were way too many people on EP back then, and still are. too many zergs. In the campaign i played DC was gated almost all the time. So i made my new main on DC because there would be more EP to kill. Go take a resource solo or with a small group, or even a keep, and wipe people. Thats what I enjoy.

Healing is broken in this game. If you have played mmos for 15 years then name some other mmos with healing like this game. Its broken. I mean ffs, i fight max cp players that dont even know how to heal. Its an absolute embarrassment. And do you know the worst part? Its when i fight a group of 5 random players getting carried by a magplar and i cant kill any of them, nor can they kill me. Why? Because they arent using any strategy or combos to kill me, and they are getting carried by some unkillable healer tank that just happend to be there.

Of course things like that are better this update, but now everyones a tank. Or worse, a filthy werewolf, or even worse still, a filthy werewolf in crimson. Quite possibly one of the most broken builds ive ever seen in this game. I dont envy the people balancing this game.

Raevyness

eso_lags wrote: »

Raevyness wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Best change ever. You guys dont actually want to solo, no what you want is to chase down solo players with randoms while still being able to heal them. No. But you still will chase actual solo players down with a random group and thank god you wont be able to heal them. You already have the advantage, you dont need more.

Again, one of the best changes they ever made. right along side the group size. Plus its good for performance. Its a step in the right direction for once.

If you really want to randomly heal people find a heal that can still heal others. I dont play a healer, and never will, but ive seen people healing randoms with cauterize. Not sure what else does it.

You said it yourself.. You dont play as a healer and never well. So i'll just go right ahead and disregard your opinion on the matter.

I've played a healer on EVERY MMO for over 15 years of playing MMOs. This is one of the WORST decisions.
What does it actually accomplish??
As a healer heading into PVP and realizing, once again on AD NA, that we were highly outnumbered, with no large organized groups going up against EP and DC, defending forts with about 20 people maybe a few grouped (i suspect mostly not), I log in and see theres 20+ players about to be rolled by incoming EP, attempt to heal them in a bid to help defend the fort and guess what? We were rolled in 2 seconds and I couldn't even help. Prior to these changes MAYBE my heals could have helped slow down the attack, allow us to push them back out the gate & seal the breach and be a defend. But 20 pugs going against like 40 EP. We had 0 chance, especially now I cant even heal we've -80% chance. In fact we mose well have logged off and just handed them the keys to that fort.

It made no difference. These changes are KILLING the class. And I'll be the first to say it. I'm dropping playing a healer and playing something else. Period. Is this a MMO?? BEcause its not very massive if 1/3 of the play style cant actually play in PVP (meaning DPS, Tank, healer).

If you've played NA, AD before you'd realize numbers are already LOW the majority of the time (outside of peak), as an Australian player, I play MOSTLY out of peak, meaning PVP was already a soggy experience at that for me, but this... this really kills it.. This isn't PVP. We don't even stand a chance anymore without the big shot PVP guilds..

Oh well, make a group. Encourage people to make a group. Eventually they will learn. And i cant relate you what you are saying about your faction because i play DC on xbox. When i started I played EP but there were way too many people on EP back then, and still are. too many zergs. In the campaign i played DC was gated almost all the time. So i made my new main on DC because there would be more EP to kill. Go take a resource solo or with a small group, or even a keep, and wipe people. Thats what I enjoy.

Healing is broken in this game. If you have played mmos for 15 years then name some other mmos with healing like this game. Its broken. I mean ffs, i fight max cp players that dont even know how to heal. Its an absolute embarrassment. And do you know the worst part? Its when i fight a group of 5 random players getting carried by a magplar and i cant kill any of them, nor can they kill me. Why? Because they arent using any strategy or combos to kill me, and they are getting carried by some unkillable healer tank that just happend to be there.

Of course things like that are better this update, but now everyones a tank. Or worse, a filthy werewolf, or even worse still, a filthy werewolf in crimson. Quite possibly one of the most broken builds ive ever seen in this game. I dont envy the people balancing this game.

Making a group isn't the point here. The point is, any other play can solo. Magplar dps, DK, Sorc etc. They can all play as they had before solo. But If I chose to play, I HAVE to group to have any impact. That which other classes do not. I'm FORCED to be social & be with others.
You're probably like "well why play a mmorpg if you don't want to be "social", which is totally beyond the point - majority of the time I'm grouped when healing anyway, but some days I might be short on time, maybe only 15-30mins game play, no point getting a group together etc for 15 mins game play. Previously id just go around on defense & heal those people soloing trying to defend the fort (remember aussie playing mostly in the 2ams and beyond time US time).

Well now I can't just jump on and lend a hand. I have to attempt to rally troops up, try finding a group of people in off peak time. It just doesn't happen there's not enough people.

eso_lags

LonePirate wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the healing and purge change if it had left everyone on an even playing field. Unfortunately, that certainly is not the case. I also wouldn't mind it if ball groups focused their efforts on other ball groups; but they avoid each other for reasons akin to professional courtesy despite many of them allegedly wanting good fights.

Sadly, I honestly don't think ZOS will do anything about the current imbalance in Cyrodiil. They are hiding behind the auspices of improved server performance and the mask of not truly caring about PVP. Does anyone really believe ZOS cares about PVP? It has been years since any sort of PVP was featured on one of the ESO Live broadcasts. That should tell you everything you need to know about what ZOS thinks of PVP (along with the long time gap since the last new battleground map). Don't hold your breath for an ESO Live show about PVP during the upcoming Midyear Mayhem event.

1000% agreed. They never have cared and never will. The performance issues in cyrodil have been going on since before one tramriel. Its an absolute joke. And for years they pretended like it didnt exist. I used to make posts about it every month back then and beg for them to come on xbox, just for one day, and try to pvp in this mess.

They wont. Youll never see it on eso live. They just dont care, and its truly sad. My best guess is that they will "work" on performance as best they can without doing anything thats going to take them investing some serious resources, and problems will continue until eso 2 or whatever comes next.

But ill always remember what they did to this game and probably never play another zos title. Even if they fix the lag, which would be mind blowing, they have treated console players, and pvp players, like second rate citizens. Its gross. Console needs QoL improvements and countless improvements in general. And pvp players deserve a new map. Not a BG, a zone. This is not a game with open world pvp servers, you just have cyrodil and IC for "open world". And id say after like 6 years and 19 pve DLC's its time for a new pvp zone.

Pauwer

Also, grouping has been made very hard if not impossible at the same time, with the group size being limited to 12. No one has room for randoms anymore, so people are forced to play solo. Even in pvp guilds there aren't enough room in groups and people have to wait for free space. They of course play solo meanwhile. We speak in guild chat, so people can follow the groups. Yes, we can have 2 or 3 guild groups and still there are people lfging in guild chat. So it's great fun to see my guild mates melt in the siege damage next to me, while i heal our group through anything they throw at us. Makes me as a healer feel so... useless? Limited? Invalid. I think that is the right word. Invalid.

Raevyness

Pauwer wrote: »

Also, grouping has been made very hard if not impossible at the same time, with the group size being limited to 12. No one has room for randoms anymore, so people are forced to play solo. Even in pvp guilds there aren't enough room in groups and people have to wait for free space. They of course play solo meanwhile. We speak in guild chat, so people can follow the groups. Yes, we can have 2 or 3 guild groups and still there are people lfging in guild chat. So it's great fun to see my guild mates melt in the siege damage next to me, while i heal our group through anything they throw at us. Makes me as a healer feel so... useless? Limited? Invalid. I think that is the right word. Invalid.

TOTALLY agree 100%!
Big raids were what made ESO, well ESO. We want large LOTR type skirmishes, not small scale stuff (we'd do battlegrounds for that!!).
Everyone has their groups with their friends and literally saw it today with a guild im in, they had 12 players & 2 others wanted to join & well.. they couldn't... So only the 'BEST' players were being chosen to go with the GL & they actually kicked one player out of the group to take another 'better' player... WELL that went down well. The guy got the craps, rightly so, and dropped guild and went offline... The other player who wanted in and was told to wait or create his own group waited for 20 minutes and then just logged off...

Literally, NO ONE will take PUGS and random people anymore. You play with friends and your guild or you solo, end of.

Eiregirl

eso_lags wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I totally see the difference but if you can't see how these changes affect healers more than the other classes then I can't help you. The group only healing has a much greater influence on how a healer plays than anyone else.

I understand why ZOS have been making many of the changes in the entire game that they have been making and much of it has been for the better but in Cyrodiil it is because they cannot currently get a handle on their performance issues so they are trying to cut out as much data flow as they can and still keep as many players happy as possible. If Cyrodiil was not such a performance mess they would have never made the change and that entire month long testing of different things would have never happened on the live server and probably would have never happened at all.

Jaraal

Eiregirl wrote: »

I understand why ZOS have been making many of the changes in the entire game that they have been making and much of it has been for the better but in Cyrodiil it is because they cannot currently get a handle on their performance issues so they are trying to cut out as much data flow as they can and still keep as many players happy as possible. If Cyrodiil was not such a performance mess they would have never made the change and that entire month long testing of different things would have never happened on the live server and probably would have never happened at all.

I do wish people would stop already with the "performance" benefit of the healing changes and smaller group size. They stated that they were not implementing any performance changes after the live server tests. These changes were made strictly because they "liked the behavioral changes" the testing brought.

Read the official word from ZOS:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7011952/#Comment_7011952

Pauwer

I can confirm the performance is just as bad as it was before. No skills work, break free most certainly does not work, constant crashes, it's all the same as it ever was. Only change is that organized groups score more kills. The end.

thatESOdude

So what's the issue?? Join a group and heal away... You're not solo anyway if u run around healing people in zergs or around other groups... So join the group and heal says rather than suggesting reverting a change that actually helped with competent outnumbered overs to win fights and not just be mindless pvp that solely relies on numbers and no skill

Faded

thatESOdude wrote: »

So what's the issue?? Join a group and heal away... You're not solo anyway if u run around healing people in zergs or around other groups... So join the group and heal says rather than suggesting reverting a change that actually helped with competent outnumbered overs to win fights and not just be mindless pvp that solely relies on numbers and no skill

"The issue" has been explained in detail ad nauseum. If you wanted to know why people are unhappy, you could read all about it. You clearly don't.

Faded

LonePirate wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the healing and purge change if it had left everyone on an even playing field. Unfortunately, that certainly is not the case.

My last day in Cyrodiil, my friend and I spent 20 minutes trying to decide if we wanted to duo or not. Suddenly there's an invisible advantage to grouping - we could heal and buff each other, but maybe the people we were fighting couldn't. Maybe.

So we could group up and bully people who had an invisible disadvantage from the start, or we could solo together and eat that invisible disadvantage ourselves. Brilliant game design.

I'm surprised I haven't seen more comments about this, but maybe I shouldn't be.

Ryath_Waylander

thatESOdude wrote: »

So what's the issue?? Join a group and heal away... You're not solo anyway if u run around healing people in zergs or around other groups... So join the group and heal says rather than suggesting reverting a change that actually helped with competent outnumbered overs to win fights and not just be mindless pvp that solely relies on numbers and no skill

The issue I have is the double whammy of forcing healers to group in order to be effective and cutting the group sizes to 12.

I could live with only healing in a group of 24. Groups of 24 still have space for people learning to pvp. Groups of 12 (without voice comms) need everyone in the group to know what they're doing and follow the crown or they get flattened. They can't spare spaces for slow horses, peeps that don't pack, or steal, seige and run to the res when they're supposed to hit the Main gate. Where do you think pvp healers of the future learn? I can't duel to learn healing.

I could live with a group size of 12, if my heals could heal outside the group, at least I don't have to just watch my allies dying around me.

I can't understand how anyone can continue to claim "performance improvements" in the face of zos' statement negating it. I can't understand how anyone can think that a damage/debuff aoe functions any differently to a healing aoe. It's just sad.

DreadDaedroth

thatESOdude wrote: »

So what's the issue?? Join a group and heal away... You're not solo anyway if u run around healing people in zergs or around other groups... So join the group and heal says rather than suggesting reverting a change that actually helped with competent outnumbered overs to win fights and not just be mindless pvp that solely relies on numbers and no skill

So you like the change only because you can kill enemy players easier? If you're so competent you should have no troubles farming ap even with heal changes reverted.
But yes be happy and egoistic, long live schadenfreude.

Agalloch

There are many other threads about the Cyrodiil problems with healing and group size :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/551933/behavioral-changes

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/554198/once-more-demanding-answers-from-devs

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557025/zos-you-are-killing-my-guild

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555383/the-solutions-to-pvp-in-cyrodiil

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557356/recent-pvp-changes

I hope this thread will be more alive .

I hope the changes made in november 2020 ( about healing and the group size) will be reverted.

I hope ZOS will listen to the community's reaction .

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Wing wrote: »

Raevyness wrote: »

I dont understand the issue? Are you saying you dislike that pvp heals are group only? Or that they arent group only??
I've also run heals before in cyro but didnt really like it because:
1. Its only fun when your with a group healing
2. when you cant get into a group, you can't do much else.

currently if your solo in cyrodil you are a group, just a group of 1, yourself, so if you try to heal anyone, you cannot, though any means, you can be standing my 20 almost dead people, and spam heals, and nobody but yourself will receive healing.

if your in a group you can spam away, ball groups are unaffected in any meaningful way.

random solo players however cannot heal or be healed by anyone while they are all being zerg'd down by a ball group, that itself is purge and hot spamming to its hearts content.

Logged in yesterday for the first time in months. Went into Cyrodiil for some PVP. Figured I’d use my healer since I hadn’t played in a while.

Now I realize I spent an hour healing no one and my game didn’t have a missing animation glitch.

I guess my career as a healer of random ungrouped groups is over. Time for a completely selfish re-speck!

zvavi

Joy_Division wrote: »

If the bosses could post on the Forums

Z'maja's dairy day 1012:
"So today I fight another ant group. lately it was more fun. I was winning more. My shadow is hitting their tank, and sometimes they just stand there, doing nothing. they probably wanted to cast heals, but they stop right before my heavy attack. they never did it before." (reference to crystalized shield sometimes not casting)
Z'maja's dairy day 1013:
"Today was fun. One of those ants just disappeared mid battle. it was the one enraging me. for some reason i felt like hitting him. but after he was gone, i just attacked the ants casually, and they just all died. It was a nice day."
Z'maja's dairy day 1014:
"Today i died. something was wrong. Relequen was by my side, but he didnt overcharge any of the ants. i dont understand. how did this happen? why did this happen? well. I just hope it wont happen tomorrow."

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

The healing change is the best thing to happen to eso pvp in a long time. No more unkillable zergs

Maybe not, but I've noticed a sizable increase in purge/heal spamming, unkillable ball groups who do nothing but plant themselves on resources hoping to farm pugs for hours at a time.

Joy_Division

eso_lags wrote: »

Raevyness wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Best change ever. You guys dont actually want to solo, no what you want is to chase down solo players with randoms while still being able to heal them. No. But you still will chase actual solo players down with a random group and thank god you wont be able to heal them. You already have the advantage, you dont need more.

Again, one of the best changes they ever made. right along side the group size. Plus its good for performance. Its a step in the right direction for once.

If you really want to randomly heal people find a heal that can still heal others. I dont play a healer, and never will, but ive seen people healing randoms with cauterize. Not sure what else does it.

You said it yourself.. You dont play as a healer and never well. So i'll just go right ahead and disregard your opinion on the matter.

I've played a healer on EVERY MMO for over 15 years of playing MMOs. This is one of the WORST decisions.
What does it actually accomplish??
As a healer heading into PVP and realizing, once again on AD NA, that we were highly outnumbered, with no large organized groups going up against EP and DC, defending forts with about 20 people maybe a few grouped (i suspect mostly not), I log in and see theres 20+ players about to be rolled by incoming EP, attempt to heal them in a bid to help defend the fort and guess what? We were rolled in 2 seconds and I couldn't even help. Prior to these changes MAYBE my heals could have helped slow down the attack, allow us to push them back out the gate & seal the breach and be a defend. But 20 pugs going against like 40 EP. We had 0 chance, especially now I cant even heal we've -80% chance. In fact we mose well have logged off and just handed them the keys to that fort.

It made no difference. These changes are KILLING the class. And I'll be the first to say it. I'm dropping playing a healer and playing something else. Period. Is this a MMO?? BEcause its not very massive if 1/3 of the play style cant actually play in PVP (meaning DPS, Tank, healer).

If you've played NA, AD before you'd realize numbers are already LOW the majority of the time (outside of peak), as an Australian player, I play MOSTLY out of peak, meaning PVP was already a soggy experience at that for me, but this... this really kills it.. This isn't PVP. We don't even stand a chance anymore without the big shot PVP guilds..

Oh well, make a group. Encourage people to make a group. Eventually they will learn. And i cant relate you what you are saying about your faction because i play DC on xbox. When i started I played EP but there were way too many people on EP back then, and still are. too many zergs. In the campaign i played DC was gated almost all the time. So i made my new main on DC because there would be more EP to kill. Go take a resource solo or with a small group, or even a keep, and wipe people. Thats what I enjoy.

Healing is broken in this game. If you have played mmos for 15 years then name some other mmos with healing like this game. Its broken. I mean ffs, i fight max cp players that dont even know how to heal. Its an absolute embarrassment. And do you know the worst part? Its when i fight a group of 5 random players getting carried by a magplar and i cant kill any of them, nor can they kill me. Why? Because they arent using any strategy or combos to kill me, and they are getting carried by some unkillable healer tank that just happend to be there.

Of course things like that are better this update, but now everyones a tank. Or worse, a filthy werewolf, or even worse still, a filthy werewolf in crimson. Quite possibly one of the most broken builds ive ever seen in this game. I dont envy the people balancing this game.

OK, can't 1v5 people so you want the devs to change the rules so their skills won't function. If your expectations are to kill 5 people and you can't, maybe you're the one who should make a group.

Wing

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

The healing change is the best thing to happen to eso pvp in a long time. No more unkillable zergs

Maybe not, but I've noticed a sizable increase in purge/heal spamming, unkillable ball groups who do nothing but plant themselves on resources hoping to farm pugs for hours at a time.

turns out its kind of annoying when everyone is in a 12 man ball group. . .

VaranisArano

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

You guys dont actually want to solo, no what you want is to chase down solo players with randoms while still being able to heal them. No. But you still will chase actual solo players down with a random group and thank god you wont be able to heal them.

This was kind of the elephant in the room that I was sensing in many of these posts.

There are many "solo" players out there who simply want to cruise around with a full faction-stack and bulldoze everything in their path with overwhelming numbers. Those same players have zero compunction about running down a true solo player or a small-scale group in the same fashion that they are now complaining about ball groups eating them up.

And in the unlocked campaign, many "solo" players simply switch sides so that they can bandwagon along with the winning side, running around fully buffed up with the Emperor bonus and all the Scrolls and gate-camping the losing factions.

So while I am sad for the honest solo healers that lost their playstyle, I am not particularly sad for the opportunistic bandwagoneers out who come to Cyrodiil simply to zerg around and beat down factions that are already outnumbered.

I think your "elephant in the room" is not really applicable to this discussion.

You see, every other build in Cyrodiil can still "solo" and cruise around a faction stack and bulldoze everything in their path by virtue of overwhelming numbers...except for healers.

So, er, I'd appreciate your sadness for "solo" healers, but unfortunately the problem you see wasn't solved by this at all. Everyone else can zergsurf in the usual self-sufficient builds the same as ever, with only a few less cross-heals that they probably weren't depending on in the first place as a "solo" player.

You know who did get hurt by the changes? The PUGs who actually are trying to take objectives, not the "solo" zergsurfers who are their hanger-ons. Most "solo" zergsurfers aren't going to tangle with a ball group, while PUG raids trying to defend or recapture a home keep get mangled by them for hours.

You seem very concerned about bandwagoneers, though, so perhaps that explains your lack of concern for how the imbalance of group healing allows ball groups to be even more powerful than prior to the patch despite fighting while outnumbered, because it dramatically weakened their opponents.



(Also, I'm EP loyal on PC/NA Grey Host, the faction-locked campaign. So your "elephant in the room" is completely non-applicable to my objections. I don't want to "bandwagon" on the winning side. I'm EP, win or lose. I just want to be able to heal ALL my faction mates who are in the same fight as me.)

THEDKEXPERIENCE

thatESOdude wrote: »

So what's the issue?? Join a group and heal away... You're not solo anyway if u run around healing people in zergs or around other groups... So join the group and heal says rather than suggesting reverting a change that actually helped with competent outnumbered overs to win fights and not just be mindless pvp that solely relies on numbers and no skill

I cannot speak for anyone else but much of the reason I mostly stopped grouping up years ago was because in most situations I was better off healing a large group because I had the freedom to do what I chose to do.

While obviously if you have a great crown your upside as a healer will be at its highest, but if you don’t? Ugh ... playing any support role can be a chore.

Ever had a crown order a retreat from a battle you know you can win simply because they are scared? Ever had to have an annoying conversation about your build you played for years successfully because someone you’ve never met before has a warped sense of what a healer should be doing? Have you ever considered that some groups simply slow down good players?

I dunno, but if there is no benefit to me equipping a heal to help others I’m just gonna go full DPS, not start randomly joining groups.

VaranisArano

Faded wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the healing and purge change if it had left everyone on an even playing field. Unfortunately, that certainly is not the case.

My last day in Cyrodiil, my friend and I spent 20 minutes trying to decide if we wanted to duo or not. Suddenly there's an invisible advantage to grouping - we could heal and buff each other, but maybe the people we were fighting couldn't. Maybe.

So we could group up and bully people who had an invisible disadvantage from the start, or we could solo together and eat that invisible disadvantage ourselves. Brilliant game design.

I'm surprised I haven't seen more comments about this, but maybe I shouldn't be.

I know I've brought this out, but usually in response to small-scalers going "This is the best change!" Your post is a refreshing perspective.

Since for many small scalers who approve wholeheartedly, yes, yes it is the best change, because their ungrouped opponents are at a disadvantage unless they stop and group up before they fight. And who does that?

*rides into resource with a couple of other random players and spots a duo of tower farmers*
"Hey, guys, do you mind if we take a moment to group up first so we too can heal and buff each other?"

Yeah, no one does that.

So I really do appreciate you giving the perspective of a pair of friends who are looking at it from the other side, "Do we take advantage of this and maybe have unfair fights? Or do we subject ourselves to unfair fights?"

It kinda sucks.
If it helps, I think many small-scalers have decided to play as usual and just enjoy the extra benefit to being in a group. Which I think is a fine choice - I mean, I'm not telling ball groups to stop stacking heals. It just means being honest about the advantages that organized large and small groups have over ungrouped opponents, and it does sound like you and your friend are very honest and considerate of that.