please revert heals being group only in pvp (WE DID IT! its being rolled back!)

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

Raevyness wrote: »

5. Removed faction unity whereby a bunch of solo players could choose to work together with a healer to achieve goals... Now said solo players can still achieve goals but healers cannot be apart of that 'teamwork' without actually being grouped with them, which has just removed some meaningful game play from healers.

Along these lines, another undesirable change I've noticed is that since ungrouped healers (and unknown DPS and tanks who's LFG calls go unheeded) no longer find relevance in traveling with clusters of other players, a lot of them have taken to solo capturing resources as one of the few things they can do to help their alliance. The problem with this is, now guild groups who are trying to take keeps by surprise are yelling at the RSS cappers in zone chat for drawing the attention of the enemy, who are now porting in to keep their fort from being cut, while still being unaware of the hit squad setting up at the front door. So naturally, they are in a great position to defend once the sieges start firing. So, not only are they limited in what they can achieve on their own, but they are getting berated by their own people for doing so.

This is 100% what I do when there isn’t an active battle going on. I just ride to the closest enemy keep and start soloing the resources.

It’s not like it’s a new thing for me but in the past I could have, I dunno, been healing someone else somewhere else.

Also great points @Joy_Division.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

rpa wrote: »

Now they only need to make only grouped players can damage only grouped enemy players and all single players get to play PvE Cyrodiil.

We’re 3 patches away from playing Hello Kitty Elder Scrolls Adventure. Where is the hug ultimate?

Agalloch · January 2021

I hope they will revert the changes . ESO Cyrodiil must remain an AVA PVP game ( all te players of a faction can work and fight together llike it was in the more than 6 years (all mean all together form a group ..not only 12) . For other things we have battlegrounds.

Thechuckage · January 2021

Give the benefit of the doubt that the changes were made with the best of intentions (we all know what those pave) but it seems like the headshed has just decided to let the pvp die of natural causes. Would not be surprised to see it get relegated to BGs and duels in the future.

Girl_Number8 · January 2021

Starlock wrote: »

Reaper_00 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Cryodil is 12 man PVP content if you are a healer

Fixed

Everyone else still gets to play solo if they want to.

And women apparently don't get to play at all... oh well.

Vevvev - Man in this context is another way of saying human.

Or you could of just said a 12 person group....

From the OP I don’t really see what you’re complaining about. If you’re not getting picked up, form your own group. Also, you could join an active PvP guild that has groups always running different campaigns.

Why have you not done either of these or have you?

I mean, I prefer solo and duo but that is how I always have played. Even as a small group of three to four experienced players you can delete full groups.

You should have made friends in PvP by now after playing this game for years. If you haven’t done that then my question is why?

Experienced and even less experienced pocket healers are very valuable for any group.

Wing · January 2021

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Reaper_00 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Cryodil is 12 man PVP content if you are a healer

Fixed

Everyone else still gets to play solo if they want to.

And women apparently don't get to play at all... oh well.

Vevvev - Man in this context is another way of saying human.

Or you could of just said a 12 person group....

From the OP I don’t really see what you’re complaining about. If you’re not getting picked up, form your own group. Also, you could join an active PvP guild that has groups always running different campaigns.

Why have you not done either of these or have you?

I mean, I prefer solo and duo but that is how I always have played. Even as a small group of three to four experienced players you can delete full groups.

You should have made friends in PvP by now after playing this game for years. If you haven’t done that then my question is why?

Experienced and even less experienced pocket healers are very valuable for any group.

was actually in a very prominent pvp guild back in the day when i was invited to join them after kind of naturally duo-ing with one of its better members, left after about a week, but on good terms and still friends.

im just a lone wolf, i prefer watching the battle myself and moving and acting accordingly, i dont like stack on crown, i dont like being tethered to people or them tethered to me in a fast paced fluid environment like Cyro especially when my whims can change at a moments notice.

when i play an offensive character i like to watch the flow of the battle and push and pull accordingly, i dont require a group to get effective use out of the various players around me.

with healing it was the same way, i could put heals and ults where i deemed them necessary by watching the flow of the battle around me with similar results, and once again didnt require a group to get effective use of the players around me.

the latter is IMMPOSSIBLE now

i no longer can have any effect on any player around me as a healer, something the other archetypes do not require.

if one lone little player is getting mob'd by another, and i am standing right next to him with a bar and ult full of heals, there is nothing i can do but watch him die.

that is unacceptable design to me.

robertthebard · January 2021

So I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, and a bit curious: If this were a "I want solo dungeons" thread, how many would be running with "It's group content, get a group" instead of "yeah, we want our solo"... No trolling or sarcasm intended, it's legit a mysterious thing. Every other thread, when I left back in March was "we need to make areas harder to encourage groups", or something along that line, and yet, here we are, looking at "but my solo content"?

Just reading the OP, and the first couple of pages, it's more than a touch ironic that a "solo" player is complaining about not being able to heal a group. Groups should be the last thing you're worried about as a solo player, yes? Again, I'm legit not trying to be trollish here, I just don't get the logic.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

FYI ... for all of the displaced healers out there you can still be a shield bot for randoms. Pretty sure I saved like 15 people with one ultimate shield last night when I saw the oil starting to get poured.

And now I expect to find out that was placebo and my 36,000 point shield only saved me.

Jaraal · January 2021

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

And now I expect to find out that was placebo and my 36,000 point shield only saved me.

Yep, Barrier was made self only if you aren't in a group.

I've dropped this ulti while helping on a ram and watched everyone around me die, while it saved me. But of course, with no one around left to heal me, I died shortly thereafter.

The scenario would have played out quite differently a couple of months ago.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

And now I expect to find out that was placebo and my 36,000 point shield only saved me.

Yep, Barrier was made self only if you aren't in a group.

I've dropped this ulti while helping on a ram and watched everyone around me die, while it saved me. But of course, with no one around left to heal me, I died shortly thereafter.

The scenario would have played out quite differently a couple of months ago.

Hahahaha, you’ve got to be kidding me. I really thought I had a heroic moment last night.

Guess I’ll just go back to blindly lobbing Ice Comets into crowds.

Jaraal · January 2021

robertthebard wrote: »

So I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, and a bit curious: If this were a "I want solo dungeons" thread, how many would be running with "It's group content, get a group" instead of "yeah, we want our solo"... No trolling or sarcasm intended, it's legit a mysterious thing. Every other thread, when I left back in March was "we need to make areas harder to encourage groups", or something along that line, and yet, here we are, looking at "but my solo content"?

Four man dungeons are purposely structured content. Those who can solo them do so not by design, but because they exceed the requirements originally intended for completion. Cyrodill, on the other hand, has always been about my army vs. your army vs. their army. It was about people coming together to help other people united under the same flag. What it's become though, is small elite group (ball or guild, or both) vs. elite group, or elite group vs ungrouped and vulnerable solo players.

It was much easier to get a group when the max group size was 24. Pick Up Group (PUG) leaders would invite everyone LFGing in zone chat, because there was enough safety in numbers that you could guarantee enough competent players would be with you to help carry the new people as they learned and improved. But since they cut the group sizes in half, PUG leaders are reluctant to add randoms and will instead only invite known PvPers, because the margin for successful conquest with a smaller squad has been slashed dramatically. Sure, there are some players who don't like grouping, and these changes negatively affect them as well. But there are also a large number of players who want to group, but are experiencing much less opportunity do do so because of the changes ZOS has implemented.

Faded · January 2021

robertthebard wrote: »

So I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, and a bit curious: If this were a "I want solo dungeons" thread, how many would be running with "It's group content, get a group" instead of "yeah, we want our solo"... No trolling or sarcasm intended, it's legit a mysterious thing. Every other thread, when I left back in March was "we need to make areas harder to encourage groups", or something along that line, and yet, here we are, looking at "but my solo content"?

Just reading the OP, and the first couple of pages, it's more than a touch ironic that a "solo" player is complaining about not being able to heal a group. Groups should be the last thing you're worried about as a solo player, yes? Again, I'm legit not trying to be trollish here, I just don't get the logic.

Are you confused? Your analogy works only if dungeons had been solo content since the game dropped and years later the rules were changed - starting this patch, AOE skills like endless hail and elemental rage will now only damage the first enemy they hit, unless you are in a group of four - and THEN people complained about no longer being able to solo.

The insight that a "solo" player can't really heal anybody but himself because a "solo" player would be of course be all alone in the wilderness, not anywhere near faction allies spontaneously defending a keep, has been addressed repeatedly by extremely patient types. Yes. Players who aren't in formal groups were and are in fact worried about supporting any and all members of their alliance in the alliance war.

VaranisArano · January 2021

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Reaper_00 wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Cryodil is 12 man PVP content if you are a healer

Fixed

Everyone else still gets to play solo if they want to.

And women apparently don't get to play at all... oh well.

Vevvev - Man in this context is another way of saying human.

Or you could of just said a 12 person group....

From the OP I don’t really see what you’re complaining about. If you’re not getting picked up, form your own group. Also, you could join an active PvP guild that has groups always running different campaigns.

Why have you not done either of these or have you?

I mean, I prefer solo and duo but that is how I always have played. Even as a small group of three to four experienced players you can delete full groups.

You should have made friends in PvP by now after playing this game for years. If you haven’t done that then my question is why?

Experienced and even less experienced pocket healers are very valuable for any group.

I'm getting really tired of this train of advice. Its not really as helpful as the people who offer it think it is.

1. "Find a group!"
Yes, I shall endeavor to find a PUG raid who's crown is competent and who is doing the sort of objective focused gameplay I like, as opposed to nonstop skirmishing at Alessia bridge. I'm sure I'll have great luck finding PUGs who bring enough siege and don't scatter from a serious fight. If I don't, my options are suck it up, LFG again, or go PVE.

2. "If you aren't getting picked up, form your own group!"
A. Not all players have the experience to feel comfortable leading a PUG raid. Not every player has the performance to lead a raid. Nobody wants a Crown who's crashing or who doesn't know where to go for fightsor how to lead people during fights. Healer used to be a fairly newbie-friendly build for new PVPers - those are the least likely players to led PUG raids well if they can't find a group to take them.
B. I do have the experience and I have led PUGs. I find it stressful, not fun. And why exactly should I be forced to do something that's stressful for me? I think I'll go PVE for a while.

3. "Then get a PVP guild!"
I have a PVP guild. Great guild, good friends. I love raiding with them. But they aren't always on when I have free time to PVP. When they aren't, I'm back at step 1, LFGing in zone and hoping for a competent group.
Also, my guild used to recruit newer players. With the guild raids cut to 12, that is much less common than it was before. There's just not as much ability to carry and train inexperienced members. Consider that when offering advice to "find a PVP guild."

4. "No, join an active PVP guild."
I think I'll stick with my PVP guild, thanks very much. And before I hear, "well, that's your decision, so live with it," I remind you that the only reason its a problem is because ZOS decided healers should be forced to group up in order to play as a healer. No other build in Cyrodiil has to jump through those hoops in order to perform the basic function of their role.
Also, have you considered the impact of cutting guild raid sizes down to 12? Its a lot harder for new members to make it into guild raids when the core members already fill or overfill those available slots.

5. "Look, you've been playing for years. And somehow you haven't made friends you can PVP with during your free time? Seriously?"
My PVP friends are in my guild. See Step 3.

What this advice really misses (beyond the obvious that it really doesn't help all players), is that only healers are forced into groups. Everyone else benefits from grouping, sure, but every other build can play "solo", can zergsurf, and can play as intended without being forced to LFG, to join a PVP guild, to join a new "active" PVP guild, or spend their play time leading a PUG raid themselves.

Every other build can log into Cyrodiil and play when and where they want during their free time. Only healers are told "LFG! Make your own group! Join a PVP guild! Why didn't you make more friends?!"

Now, maybe you meant this to be helpful and encouraging! Its unfortunate that whatever your intent, this not very helpful advice only shows just how many hoops ZOS is forcing healers, and healers alone, to jump through in order to play as a healer.

If you DO want to be helpful, I have a suggestion: Since you suggest that healers should lead PUGs, I'll assume that you've had positive experiences when you lead PUGs! Do you have any advice to pass on to less experienced players about how to lead PUGs well?
i know I sound rather stressed about leading PUGs myself, but I'm always happy to learn from others.

(On a side note: if your advice is "Join a PVP guild to play a healer," I don't want to hear any complaints about ball groups and PVP guild raids being unbalanced because they are the only people on the battlefield with dedicated healers. Hmm, I wonder how that happened?)

Ryath_Waylander · January 2021

So... any DC PC-EU ballgroups looking for a healer? Asking for a friend.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

This is why when people ask me to be crown I ask the following ...

“Do you want to have fun or do you want to win?”

Both are acceptable options. If you want to have fun then simply stay on crown, make jokes, have conversations and go from there. Who knows, we may even do well.

If your answer is “win” then I ask, “are you sure” and when they say yes I say ok followed by telling everyone to mute their mics and do exactly what I say when I say it. Any talk that isn’t specifically related to “there are 4 enemies to our east” will get you booted after 1 warning. And notice I said East and not “left”. Don’t bring that noob *** to this dominance party.

Fact is I have zero interest in being the second guy. I especially have zero interest in acting like that to PUG people. This is exactly why people think PVPers are toxic.

And this is also why I play solo unless I know for a fact that the crown knows what they are doing.

VaranisArano · January 2021

robertthebard wrote: »

So I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, and a bit curious: If this were a "I want solo dungeons" thread, how many would be running with "It's group content, get a group" instead of "yeah, we want our solo"... No trolling or sarcasm intended, it's legit a mysterious thing. Every other thread, when I left back in March was "we need to make areas harder to encourage groups", or something along that line, and yet, here we are, looking at "but my solo content"?

Just reading the OP, and the first couple of pages, it's more than a touch ironic that a "solo" player is complaining about not being able to heal a group. Groups should be the last thing you're worried about as a solo player, yes? Again, I'm legit not trying to be trollish here, I just don't get the logic.

Sorry, I'm a little confused with your angle of approach, so I'll try to break this down.

First off, the PVE "I want solo dungeons," is typically a plea for easier, soloable content, right?

That's not really what's happening here. We're not asking for PVP to be nerfed. We're asking for healers to be un-nerfed and to be given our previous freedom to play without groups back.

The closest PVE analogy I can think of is not "I want easy solo dungeons" but rather "ZOS, can you please fix the Boomer passives?"

We used to be able to play "solo" healers in Cyrodiil, not forced to LFG in zone chat and not tied to any group Crown to tell us when and where to heal. We used to be able to heal everyone on our faction in the same fight, whether or not we were grouped with them.

That's what we'd like to be able to do again.

Second, you say, "Groups should be the last thing you're worried about as a solo player, yes?"

That's a very typical attitude you'll see from solo damage dealers, tower farmers, or small scale PVPers. They tend not to concern themselves overmuch with the large group combat at keeps and other objectives.

Its not particularly accurate to healers, however, since logic suggests that a truly solo healer is only healing themselves. In which case, they'd be better off in a self-sufficient, tanky, proc-set build instead of playing a healer. In practice, "solo" healers fought alongside groups and healed their faction mates. They just didn't tie themselves to one group or follow anyone's orders.

Third, I think you miss the "solo" vs "group" context in Cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is an alliance-based PVP mode. Before this update, my team was every player on my Alliance who was engaged in the same fight. I could heal everyone, and they could heal me. Whether I was in a group or I was "solo" didn't make a difference. I was working together with everyone on my faction, healing them as I saw fit, and receiving cross-heals from them as they saw fit.

Before, the big difference between "solo" and group healing was "solo" healers had a lot more freedom to heal when and where they wanted. If ai wanted to answer the call to defend a home keep, I could do that without waiting on my Crown to decide or my groulmates to trickle in. If I wanted to heal the siege line or lay down siege myself, I could, instead of healing the skirmishing PUGs.

Now, Cyrodiil is much more "group-based." The only team I can support is my 11 other group-mates. The rest of them just happen to have the same color shields over their head and be fighting the same enemies as me.

Now, the difference between group and "solo" healers is that group healers can only heal the 11 other people in their group. "Solo" healers can only heal themselves, which makes them pretty useless.

I hope this helps clarify that this is not a case of players asking for content to be made easier, but rather PVP healers asking ZOS to reverse a nerf that crippled grouped healers and outright destroyed our pre-existing ability to play "solo".

renne · January 2021

Former happily solo healing magplar looking for lazy proc build, I guess.

robertthebard · January 2021

Faded wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

So I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, and a bit curious: If this were a "I want solo dungeons" thread, how many would be running with "It's group content, get a group" instead of "yeah, we want our solo"... No trolling or sarcasm intended, it's legit a mysterious thing. Every other thread, when I left back in March was "we need to make areas harder to encourage groups", or something along that line, and yet, here we are, looking at "but my solo content"?

Just reading the OP, and the first couple of pages, it's more than a touch ironic that a "solo" player is complaining about not being able to heal a group. Groups should be the last thing you're worried about as a solo player, yes? Again, I'm legit not trying to be trollish here, I just don't get the logic.

Are you confused? Your analogy works only if dungeons had been solo content since the game dropped and years later the rules were changed - starting this patch, AOE skills like endless hail and elemental rage will now only damage the first enemy they hit, unless you are in a group of four - and THEN people complained about no longer being able to solo.

The insight that a "solo" player can't really heal anybody but himself because a "solo" player would be of course be all alone in the wilderness, not anywhere near faction allies spontaneously defending a keep, has been addressed repeatedly by extremely patient types. Yes. Players who aren't in formal groups were and are in fact worried about supporting any and all members of their alliance in the alliance war.

Then make, or join a group. Reading here, it's a 12 person activity, 12 people == group activity. If I want to participate in group activities, I'm going to join a group, not sit on the sidelines complaining that I can't solo it, or that they took steps to encourage group play in a group play environment. The irony here being, of course, how the topic is usually the other way around, ie, "if you want to take part in group activities, you should have a group to do so".

So I guess I'm less confused, and more amused at the irony.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

renne wrote: »

Former happily solo healing magplar looking for lazy proc build, I guess.

This was me yesterday. May I recommend a nice Julianos and Vicious Death 5 x 5 set up? Helmet and shoulder can be dealers choice.

Just because it’s an oldie doesn’t mean it’s not still a goodie.

VaranisArano · January 2021

robertthebard wrote: »

Faded wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

So I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, and a bit curious: If this were a "I want solo dungeons" thread, how many would be running with "It's group content, get a group" instead of "yeah, we want our solo"... No trolling or sarcasm intended, it's legit a mysterious thing. Every other thread, when I left back in March was "we need to make areas harder to encourage groups", or something along that line, and yet, here we are, looking at "but my solo content"?

Just reading the OP, and the first couple of pages, it's more than a touch ironic that a "solo" player is complaining about not being able to heal a group. Groups should be the last thing you're worried about as a solo player, yes? Again, I'm legit not trying to be trollish here, I just don't get the logic.

Are you confused? Your analogy works only if dungeons had been solo content since the game dropped and years later the rules were changed - starting this patch, AOE skills like endless hail and elemental rage will now only damage the first enemy they hit, unless you are in a group of four - and THEN people complained about no longer being able to solo.

The insight that a "solo" player can't really heal anybody but himself because a "solo" player would be of course be all alone in the wilderness, not anywhere near faction allies spontaneously defending a keep, has been addressed repeatedly by extremely patient types. Yes. Players who aren't in formal groups were and are in fact worried about supporting any and all members of their alliance in the alliance war.

Then make, or join a group. Reading here, it's a 12 person activity, 12 people == group activity. If I want to participate in group activities, I'm going to join a group, not sit on the sidelines complaining that I can't solo it, or that they took steps to encourage group play in a group play environment. The irony here being, of course, how the topic is usually the other way around, ie, "if you want to take part in group activities, you should have a group to do so".

So I guess I'm less confused, and more amused at the irony.

I see you've ignored the several posts explaining why "just make or join a group" is not nearly as helpful as you imagine.

Additionally, what you continue to miss is that Cyrodiil has not (until just now) been a 12-person group-based activity. Its been an alliance-based activity, and formal grouping wasn't required to be able to heal every other ally on the battlefield, which if you've never fought in a prime-time Cyrodiil battle, was a LOT more than 12. (Cyrodiil was originally designed for large scale combat in groups of 8 to 24, then groups of 2 to 24, and it supports a wide variety of solo, small scale, zerg, and faction stack PVP. Its never been a 12-person group based activity.)

Until now, there was never a requirement that PVP players formally group up at all in Cyrodiil in order to heal. Now there is.

There used to be benefits to formally grouping, of course. Guaranteed allies around is a big plus. Every bit of organization helps.. But there weren't ZOS-enforced disadvantages to not grouping like it is now where 12 ungrouped players have a huge healing disadvantage vs 12 grouped players unless the first 12 literally stop and group up beforehand.

And your irony is not very ironic. We're not asking to solo group-based content. Cyrodiil is faction-based PVP. We're asking to go back to being able to heal our entire faction without having to be limited to one small 12-person group.

renne · January 2021

robertthebard wrote: »

Then make, or join a group. Reading here, it's a 12 person activity, 12 people == group activity. If I want to participate in group activities, I'm going to join a group, not sit on the sidelines complaining that I can't solo it, or that they took steps to encourage group play in a group play environment. The irony here being, of course, how the topic is usually the other way around, ie, "if you want to take part in group activities, you should have a group to do so".

So I guess I'm less confused, and more amused at the irony.

There's literally a post by VaranisArano explaining why this isn't that easy five posts above yours. I'm not going to lie, I'm sick of people coming into these threads and smugly suggesting that we former solo healers should ~just group up or make a group, like it's just that simple and the negatives of this haven't been explained ad nauseum (rather like explanations to the excruciatingly disingenuous "lol if ur a solo healer how do u heal anyone if no one is around!!!" posts) often in that very thread.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Former happily solo healing magplar looking for lazy proc build, I guess.

This was me yesterday. May I recommend a nice Julianos and Vicious Death 5 x 5 set up? Helmet and shoulder can be dealers choice.

Just because it’s an oldie doesn’t mean it’s not still a goodie.

Thanks for this. I guess I have to contribute to the annoying proc meta now since my preferred style of playing no longer exists.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

renne wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Then make, or join a group. Reading here, it's a 12 person activity, 12 people == group activity. If I want to participate in group activities, I'm going to join a group, not sit on the sidelines complaining that I can't solo it, or that they took steps to encourage group play in a group play environment. The irony here being, of course, how the topic is usually the other way around, ie, "if you want to take part in group activities, you should have a group to do so".

So I guess I'm less confused, and more amused at the irony.

There's literally a post by VaranisArano explaining why this isn't that easy five posts above yours. I'm not going to lie, I'm sick of people coming into these threads and smugly suggesting that we former solo healers should ~just group up or make a group, like it's just that simple and the negatives of this haven't been explained ad nauseum (rather like explanations to the excruciatingly disingenuous "lol if ur a solo healer how do u heal anyone if no one is around!!!" posts) often in that very thread.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Former happily solo healing magplar looking for lazy proc build, I guess.

This was me yesterday. May I recommend a nice Julianos and Vicious Death 5 x 5 set up? Helmet and shoulder can be dealers choice.

Just because it’s an oldie doesn’t mean it’s not still a goodie.

Thanks for this. I guess I have to contribute to the annoying proc meta now since my preferred style of playing no longer exists.

Yup! All displaced free agent healers have to go somewhere. Little do people realize that a Templar with no one else to heal can then simply focus on spamming executes from 30 yards out, while kill stealing their way to a Kill 40 Players quest in a matter of minutes. Enjoy the beam spamming!

VaranisArano · January 2021

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

This is why when people ask me to be crown I ask the following ...

“Do you want to have fun or do you want to win?”

Both are acceptable options. If you want to have fun then simply stay on crown, make jokes, have conversations and go from there. Who knows, we may even do well.

If your answer is “win” then I ask, “are you sure” and when they say yes I say ok followed by telling everyone to mute their mics and do exactly what I say when I say it. Any talk that isn’t specifically related to “there are 4 enemies to our east” will get you booted after 1 warning. And notice I said East and not “left”. Don’t bring that noob *** to this dominance party.

Fact is I have zero interest in being the second guy. I especially have zero interest in acting like that to PUG people. This is exactly why people think PVPers are toxic.

And this is also why I play solo unless I know for a fact that the crown knows what they are doing.

This is a great way to describe it! I'll have to remember that if I ever try leading PUGs again - you do a really good job of getting everyone's expectations on the same page of "Unless you are really willing to do what it takes to win, we're here to have fun win or lose."

It truly is amazing the difference between PVPing with a group to have fun and PVPing with a group to win. I have both in my guild raid, but it requires the whole group knowing when to have fun and jokes and laughter and when to shut up, focus, and listen to Crown.

eso_lags · January 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Raevyness wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Best change ever. You guys dont actually want to solo, no what you want is to chase down solo players with randoms while still being able to heal them. No. But you still will chase actual solo players down with a random group and thank god you wont be able to heal them. You already have the advantage, you dont need more.

Again, one of the best changes they ever made. right along side the group size. Plus its good for performance. Its a step in the right direction for once.

If you really want to randomly heal people find a heal that can still heal others. I dont play a healer, and never will, but ive seen people healing randoms with cauterize. Not sure what else does it.

You said it yourself.. You dont play as a healer and never well. So i'll just go right ahead and disregard your opinion on the matter.

I've played a healer on EVERY MMO for over 15 years of playing MMOs. This is one of the WORST decisions.
What does it actually accomplish??
As a healer heading into PVP and realizing, once again on AD NA, that we were highly outnumbered, with no large organized groups going up against EP and DC, defending forts with about 20 people maybe a few grouped (i suspect mostly not), I log in and see theres 20+ players about to be rolled by incoming EP, attempt to heal them in a bid to help defend the fort and guess what? We were rolled in 2 seconds and I couldn't even help. Prior to these changes MAYBE my heals could have helped slow down the attack, allow us to push them back out the gate & seal the breach and be a defend. But 20 pugs going against like 40 EP. We had 0 chance, especially now I cant even heal we've -80% chance. In fact we mose well have logged off and just handed them the keys to that fort.

It made no difference. These changes are KILLING the class. And I'll be the first to say it. I'm dropping playing a healer and playing something else. Period. Is this a MMO?? BEcause its not very massive if 1/3 of the play style cant actually play in PVP (meaning DPS, Tank, healer).

If you've played NA, AD before you'd realize numbers are already LOW the majority of the time (outside of peak), as an Australian player, I play MOSTLY out of peak, meaning PVP was already a soggy experience at that for me, but this... this really kills it.. This isn't PVP. We don't even stand a chance anymore without the big shot PVP guilds..

Oh well, make a group. Encourage people to make a group. Eventually they will learn. And i cant relate you what you are saying about your faction because i play DC on xbox. When i started I played EP but there were way too many people on EP back then, and still are. too many zergs. In the campaign i played DC was gated almost all the time. So i made my new main on DC because there would be more EP to kill. Go take a resource solo or with a small group, or even a keep, and wipe people. Thats what I enjoy.

Healing is broken in this game. If you have played mmos for 15 years then name some other mmos with healing like this game. Its broken. I mean ffs, i fight max cp players that dont even know how to heal. Its an absolute embarrassment. And do you know the worst part? Its when i fight a group of 5 random players getting carried by a magplar and i cant kill any of them, nor can they kill me. Why? Because they arent using any strategy or combos to kill me, and they are getting carried by some unkillable healer tank that just happend to be there.

Of course things like that are better this update, but now everyones a tank. Or worse, a filthy werewolf, or even worse still, a filthy werewolf in crimson. Quite possibly one of the most broken builds ive ever seen in this game. I dont envy the people balancing this game.

OK, can't 1v5 people so you want the devs to change the rules so their skills won't function. If your expectations are to kill 5 people and you can't, maybe you're the one who should make a group.

Arent you a class rep for templar? Or used to be? Hmmmm 🙄🙄

Anyway, thats not what i said. Like at all, i swear Ill never understand why people dont read on the forums. I can kill plenty of people 1v5, and there are plenty of people i cant kill 1v5. It doesnt matter. I was giving a random example of how 4 extremely inexperienced players can get carried by an inexperienced magplar because healing is broken. And because of the fact that these groups, or not groups i guess, are sometimes uncoordinated, because they arent grouped, they cant kill me and I cant kill them. Now at least they have to actually be grouped if they want to be carried by a healer. And that will give them a better chance of killing people.

Yes, I was a rep because people communicated to ZOS that I can be trusted when it comes to the concerns of everybody who plays the game, not just a small clique who plays the game the way that I do..

If the magplar is inexperienced, then any 1vXer worth their salt will eliminate them first because A) they're inexperienced B] easier to kill C) they're helping the other 4 the most. Templar is my most killed class in PvP. If you're struggling to kill an inexperienced magplar, the issue here is not Cyrodiil's mechanics, rather your ambitions and expectations of 1v5ing people are out of whack with your capabilities.

If the problem is "because they arent grouped, they cant kill me and I cant kill them," that's going to happen indefinitely because Cyrodiil isn't a battleground or arena where everyone is in 12 person groups and these 12 person groups are in separate instances. The environment is always going to have overlapping groups, ungrouped players, and organized guild groups that will create these random clusters where everybody is playing by different rules. Bob and Emily can heal each other, but Armando and Kate who are in-between them can't get healed by either. This is confusing, inconsistent, and antithetical to competition as some people are playing with an advantageous ruleset. When I run with my guild, I feel sorry for all the random ungrouped players that get farmed mercilessly. It is ridiculous that we can run around a keep vs dozens and dozens of players for upwards of 20-30 minutes. Ever since these changes, we can do this for longer and against more players not just because they can;t heal each other, but also because everyone is building tankier (and thus less damage) for the same reason: because they can't heal each other, which just makes this meta even more miserable than it is.

Your statement that grouping "will give them a better chance of killing people" is disingenuous. All that would do is return to the status quo ante bellum, i.e., the way before these changes. It's not better. Not to mention it is unreasonable to expect and demand that in order for players not to suffer from an artificial debuff before engaging 3 tower humpers, people have to all gather at a designated spot by the resource and go through the process of grouping each other (we won't even get into sorting out roles, coordinating sets/skills, having someone step up and host a discord) while the three ulti bomb them. It's often not practical because of the open world nature of Cyrodiil and thus hardly a justification why players deserve to play under a disadvantageous ruleset.

If the magplar is inexperienced, then any 1vXer worth their salt will eliminate them first because A) they're inexperienced B] easier to kill C) they're helping the other 4 the most. Templar is my most killed class in PvP. If you're struggling to kill an inexperienced magplar, the issue here is not Cyrodiil's mechanics, rather your ambitions and expectations of 1v5ing people are out of whack with your capabilities.

Let me clarify, I probably should have said bad instead of inexperienced but i try not to be rude on the forums. I dont mean a cp 400 player whos been playing for 2 months, thats inexperienced.. I mean players who should know enough but just zerg all the time or play lazy. Also im not sure why you think its my capabilities that should be questioned when it should be no issue for 5 people to kill one person. Like at all. And if there is 5 max players failing at killing one player then theres a problem.

It will always depend on the situation and who it is. Of course the healer is always the first target, unless theres a sniper in the back i can quickly run over to and 2 shot. But there are also plenty of healers that have a ridiculous amount of health, are extremely tanky, use a healing proc set, and are extremely hard to run out of resources. And sometimes the players that are being healed by that player are pretty bad. Like players that know how to spam attacks but not heal, or cc break, normally players that would die in 2 seconds, but with a magplar they get carried. And sometimes those players drop just as fast because their build is ***, it just depends on the situation.

If the problem is "because they arent grouped, they cant kill me and I cant kill them," that's going to happen indefinitely because Cyrodiil isn't a battleground or arena where everyone is in 12 person groups and these 12 person groups are in separate instances. The environment is always going to have overlapping groups, ungrouped players, and organized guild groups that will create these random clusters where everybody is playing by different rules. Bob and Emily can heal each other, but Armando and Kate who are in-between them can't get healed by either. This is confusing, inconsistent, and antithetical to competition as some people are playing with an advantageous ruleset.

Ya it is a game, it is competition. Many times being in a group isnt enough, just because 5 bad players are grouped doesnt mean they win, but they stand a better chance if they communicate and work together. I think you misunderstood my point about grouping up, the point is, they are working together and not just running around uncoordinated.

And Maybe if armondo and kate want to get healed they should take a pro tip from bob and emily and get in a group, or throw on a self heal. Works great for me. Im so confused how you dont understand people are choosing to play without a group, just like I do a lot of the time. Im also so confused why you make it seem like finding, or creating, a group in cyrodil is such a massive ordeal? its not.

When I run with my guild, I feel sorry for all the random ungrouped players that get farmed mercilessly. It is ridiculous that we can run around a keep vs dozens and dozens of players for upwards of 20-30 minutes

This is confusing, inconsistent, and antithetical to competition as some people are playing with an advantageous ruleset

Not to mention it is unreasonable to expect and demand that in order for players not to suffer from an artificial debuff before engaging 3 tower humpers, people have to all gather at a designated spot by the resource and go through the process of grouping each other (we won't even get into sorting out roles, coordinating sets/skills, having someone step up and host a discord)

You and I are never going to agree. This is nonsense, and I can feel you disdain for solo players, and i love it. You are just upset about a change, and I honestly sympathize with you, but i disagree. Before this change if you came across 3 people in a tower and you are one of those players that felt like you HAVE to go up there and kill them, you'd still probably die. Depending on the size of the zerg you go up with. Would your chances be better, as a random zerg on their way to the next keep? Of course. But that doesnt make this change wrong.

This is what adapting is. When you know this change has happened your moves should have been to have a build that can heal yourself a bit, and try to group up with people if you want to have these type of large scale fights. I go to these fights and run around alone killing people as I go.

You act like ball groups didnt mercilessly farm people before this change happened. And you over complicate the *** out of what needs to happen when you're grouping up. Its strange. You even validate my argument, about grouping up, with everything you say. We agree its advantageous to group up. We agree you stand a better chance grouped. We agree that if you're running around in a random zerg, not grouped, you're at a bit of a disadvantage vs a zerg that has groups. So why doesnt it fall on the players to group up?

People love to *** on solo players and say oh its a numbers game, its survival of the fittest, you put yourself at a disadvantage going solo, its war dont get mad when 30 people to chase you all around the map, oh its a strategic gameplay and numbers give you the advantage. People also love to say "adapt" when zos makes changes, but now that they changed this people dont want to adapt.

Im not implying you've said these things, maybe you have or havent i really dont know, but the point is that some of these things are valid arguments that people love to make about solo players, or people who complain about a certain change. So arent people choosing to not group putting themselves at an unnecessary disadvantage?

Ranger209 · January 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

Cyrodill, on the other hand, has always been about my army vs. your army vs. their army. It was about people coming together to help other people united under the same flag. What it's become though, is small elite group (ball or guild, or both) vs. elite group, or elite group vs ungrouped and vulnerable solo players.

QFT

ExistingRug61 · January 2021

eso_lags wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Raevyness wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Best change ever. You guys dont actually want to solo, no what you want is to chase down solo players with randoms while still being able to heal them. No. But you still will chase actual solo players down with a random group and thank god you wont be able to heal them. You already have the advantage, you dont need more.

Again, one of the best changes they ever made. right along side the group size. Plus its good for performance. Its a step in the right direction for once.

If you really want to randomly heal people find a heal that can still heal others. I dont play a healer, and never will, but ive seen people healing randoms with cauterize. Not sure what else does it.

You said it yourself.. You dont play as a healer and never well. So i'll just go right ahead and disregard your opinion on the matter.

I've played a healer on EVERY MMO for over 15 years of playing MMOs. This is one of the WORST decisions.
What does it actually accomplish??
As a healer heading into PVP and realizing, once again on AD NA, that we were highly outnumbered, with no large organized groups going up against EP and DC, defending forts with about 20 people maybe a few grouped (i suspect mostly not), I log in and see theres 20+ players about to be rolled by incoming EP, attempt to heal them in a bid to help defend the fort and guess what? We were rolled in 2 seconds and I couldn't even help. Prior to these changes MAYBE my heals could have helped slow down the attack, allow us to push them back out the gate & seal the breach and be a defend. But 20 pugs going against like 40 EP. We had 0 chance, especially now I cant even heal we've -80% chance. In fact we mose well have logged off and just handed them the keys to that fort.

It made no difference. These changes are KILLING the class. And I'll be the first to say it. I'm dropping playing a healer and playing something else. Period. Is this a MMO?? BEcause its not very massive if 1/3 of the play style cant actually play in PVP (meaning DPS, Tank, healer).

If you've played NA, AD before you'd realize numbers are already LOW the majority of the time (outside of peak), as an Australian player, I play MOSTLY out of peak, meaning PVP was already a soggy experience at that for me, but this... this really kills it.. This isn't PVP. We don't even stand a chance anymore without the big shot PVP guilds..

Oh well, make a group. Encourage people to make a group. Eventually they will learn. And i cant relate you what you are saying about your faction because i play DC on xbox. When i started I played EP but there were way too many people on EP back then, and still are. too many zergs. In the campaign i played DC was gated almost all the time. So i made my new main on DC because there would be more EP to kill. Go take a resource solo or with a small group, or even a keep, and wipe people. Thats what I enjoy.

Healing is broken in this game. If you have played mmos for 15 years then name some other mmos with healing like this game. Its broken. I mean ffs, i fight max cp players that dont even know how to heal. Its an absolute embarrassment. And do you know the worst part? Its when i fight a group of 5 random players getting carried by a magplar and i cant kill any of them, nor can they kill me. Why? Because they arent using any strategy or combos to kill me, and they are getting carried by some unkillable healer tank that just happend to be there.

Of course things like that are better this update, but now everyones a tank. Or worse, a filthy werewolf, or even worse still, a filthy werewolf in crimson. Quite possibly one of the most broken builds ive ever seen in this game. I dont envy the people balancing this game.

OK, can't 1v5 people so you want the devs to change the rules so their skills won't function. If your expectations are to kill 5 people and you can't, maybe you're the one who should make a group.

Arent you a class rep for templar? Or used to be? Hmmmm 🙄🙄

Anyway, thats not what i said. Like at all, i swear Ill never understand why people dont read on the forums. I can kill plenty of people 1v5, and there are plenty of people i cant kill 1v5. It doesnt matter. I was giving a random example of how 4 extremely inexperienced players can get carried by an inexperienced magplar because healing is broken. And because of the fact that these groups, or not groups i guess, are sometimes uncoordinated, because they arent grouped, they cant kill me and I cant kill them. Now at least they have to actually be grouped if they want to be carried by a healer. And that will give them a better chance of killing people.

Yes, I was a rep because people communicated to ZOS that I can be trusted when it comes to the concerns of everybody who plays the game, not just a small clique who plays the game the way that I do..

If the magplar is inexperienced, then any 1vXer worth their salt will eliminate them first because A) they're inexperienced B] easier to kill C) they're helping the other 4 the most. Templar is my most killed class in PvP. If you're struggling to kill an inexperienced magplar, the issue here is not Cyrodiil's mechanics, rather your ambitions and expectations of 1v5ing people are out of whack with your capabilities.

If the problem is "because they arent grouped, they cant kill me and I cant kill them," that's going to happen indefinitely because Cyrodiil isn't a battleground or arena where everyone is in 12 person groups and these 12 person groups are in separate instances. The environment is always going to have overlapping groups, ungrouped players, and organized guild groups that will create these random clusters where everybody is playing by different rules. Bob and Emily can heal each other, but Armando and Kate who are in-between them can't get healed by either. This is confusing, inconsistent, and antithetical to competition as some people are playing with an advantageous ruleset. When I run with my guild, I feel sorry for all the random ungrouped players that get farmed mercilessly. It is ridiculous that we can run around a keep vs dozens and dozens of players for upwards of 20-30 minutes. Ever since these changes, we can do this for longer and against more players not just because they can;t heal each other, but also because everyone is building tankier (and thus less damage) for the same reason: because they can't heal each other, which just makes this meta even more miserable than it is.

Your statement that grouping "will give them a better chance of killing people" is disingenuous. All that would do is return to the status quo ante bellum, i.e., the way before these changes. It's not better. Not to mention it is unreasonable to expect and demand that in order for players not to suffer from an artificial debuff before engaging 3 tower humpers, people have to all gather at a designated spot by the resource and go through the process of grouping each other (we won't even get into sorting out roles, coordinating sets/skills, having someone step up and host a discord) while the three ulti bomb them. It's often not practical because of the open world nature of Cyrodiil and thus hardly a justification why players deserve to play under a disadvantageous ruleset.

If the magplar is inexperienced, then any 1vXer worth their salt will eliminate them first because A) they're inexperienced B] easier to kill C) they're helping the other 4 the most. Templar is my most killed class in PvP. If you're struggling to kill an inexperienced magplar, the issue here is not Cyrodiil's mechanics, rather your ambitions and expectations of 1v5ing people are out of whack with your capabilities.

Let me clarify, I probably should have said bad instead of inexperienced but i try not to be rude on the forums. I dont mean a cp 400 player whos been playing for 2 months, thats inexperienced.. I mean players who should know enough but just zerg all the time or play lazy. Also im not sure why you think its my capabilities that should be questioned when it should be no issue for 5 people to kill one person. Like at all. And if there is 5 max players failing at killing one player then theres a problem.

It will always depend on the situation and who it is. Of course the healer is always the first target, unless theres a sniper in the back i can quickly run over to and 2 shot. But there are also plenty of healers that have a ridiculous amount of health, are extremely tanky, use a healing proc set, and are extremely hard to run out of resources. And sometimes the players that are being healed by that player are pretty bad. Like players that know how to spam attacks but not heal, or cc break, normally players that would die in 2 seconds, but with a magplar they get carried. And sometimes those players drop just as fast because their build is ***, it just depends on the situation.

If the problem is "because they arent grouped, they cant kill me and I cant kill them," that's going to happen indefinitely because Cyrodiil isn't a battleground or arena where everyone is in 12 person groups and these 12 person groups are in separate instances. The environment is always going to have overlapping groups, ungrouped players, and organized guild groups that will create these random clusters where everybody is playing by different rules. Bob and Emily can heal each other, but Armando and Kate who are in-between them can't get healed by either. This is confusing, inconsistent, and antithetical to competition as some people are playing with an advantageous ruleset.

Ya it is a game, it is competition. Many times being in a group isnt enough, just because 5 bad players are grouped doesnt mean they win, but they stand a better chance if they communicate and work together. I think you misunderstood my point about grouping up, the point is, they are working together and not just running around uncoordinated.

And Maybe if armondo and kate want to get healed they should take a pro tip from bob and emily and get in a group, or throw on a self heal. Works great for me. Im so confused how you dont understand people are choosing to play without a group, just like I do a lot of the time. Im also so confused why you make it seem like finding, or creating, a group in cyrodil is such a massive ordeal? its not.

When I run with my guild, I feel sorry for all the random ungrouped players that get farmed mercilessly. It is ridiculous that we can run around a keep vs dozens and dozens of players for upwards of 20-30 minutes

This is confusing, inconsistent, and antithetical to competition as some people are playing with an advantageous ruleset

Not to mention it is unreasonable to expect and demand that in order for players not to suffer from an artificial debuff before engaging 3 tower humpers, people have to all gather at a designated spot by the resource and go through the process of grouping each other (we won't even get into sorting out roles, coordinating sets/skills, having someone step up and host a discord)

You and I are never going to agree. This is nonsense, and I can feel you disdain for solo players, and i love it. You are just upset about a change, and I honestly sympathize with you, but i disagree. Before this change if you came across 3 people in a tower and you are one of those players that felt like you HAVE to go up there and kill them, you'd still probably die. Depending on the size of the zerg you go up with. Would your chances be better, as a random zerg on their way to the next keep? Of course. But that doesnt make this change wrong.

This is what adapting is. When you know this change has happened your moves should have been to have a build that can heal yourself a bit, and try to group up with people if you want to have these type of large scale fights. I go to these fights and run around alone killing people as I go.

You act like ball groups didnt mercilessly farm people before this change happened. And you over complicate the *** out of what needs to happen when you're grouping up. Its strange. You even validate my argument, about grouping up, with everything you say. We agree its advantageous to group up. We agree you stand a better chance grouped. We agree that if you're running around in a random zerg, not grouped, you're at a bit of a disadvantage vs a zerg that has groups. So why doesnt it fall on the players to group up?

People love to *** on solo players and say oh its a numbers game, its survival of the fittest, you put yourself at a disadvantage going solo, its war dont get mad when 30 people to chase you all around the map, oh its a strategic gameplay and numbers give you the advantage. People also love to say "adapt" when zos makes changes, but now that they changed this people dont want to adapt.

Im not implying you've said these things, maybe you have or havent i really dont know, but the point is that some of these things are valid arguments that people love to make about solo players, or people who complain about a certain change. So arent people choosing to not group putting themselves at an unnecessary disadvantage?

@eso_lags, perhaps I can provide a different take on this. Many others in this thread such as Joy and Varanis have made many posts about why they view this as a negative change, mainly coming at it from the point of view that it is an unfair on unbalanced change that artificially nerfs their preferred playstyle. And that argument is always going to be a bit subjective as there will also be players who benefit from the change and hence like it for that reason.

My feelings on this come from a slightly different place. Objectively, I probably benefit from this change. I tended to run around in cyro on my own, generally in lower population times (xbox, oceanic time), so small scale fights is generally all that's going on. Either because I'm in enemy territory resource/outpost/town capping or maybe I'm on my own defending a keep from a small group that have attacked it. These are common scenarios for me.
Its not like I'm that good a player, I'm no 1vXer, and its not like I would ever normally win in an outnumbered scenario unless the opposing players were either inexperienced, under leveled CP, or under/poorly geared/built, or if I could exploit some tactical advantage due to the location or npcs. But now if I run into a couple of enemy players its likely they aren't getting the benefit of each others heals/buffs, giving me an advantage I did not previously have. So really this change should help me.

But, in my time in Cyro I found there was something else I liked doing, which was to be able to on a whim jump in and help another alliance mate. I'm not talking zerg surfing here or helping some group chase down one player. Rather maybe its another solo player who is fighting outnumbered against a few enemies, perhaps on a resource or defending an outpost, basically temporarily acting like a duo, or a trio. Or maybe it was a small group fighting another small enemy group. I could go in a help as best I could. And then, win or lose, I would be on my way again, heading off to the next place and maybe the next small encounter.

And that was the key. I find I love helping and being around a few other players (not large groups as blob fights tend to devolve fairly quickly into AoE fests which I don't enjoy), but I always wanted to have my own agency and make my own choices about where to go and which fights to join without having to worry about anyone else. Prior to this change, such a playstyle was possible, now it is somewhat dead in the water.

Sure, like you suggest, I can adapt back to a more selfish build like I started out. And be better off in that scenario if I just want to play solo. But I don't enjoy it as much. And given that its not necessarily about being the most effective or successful for me, I'm here to have fun, this leads to me being a lot less enthusiastic about jumping in to Cyrodiil.

I get that the change is beneficial for some and that you like it for that reason. That's fair. And I get that its bad for others who feel like they have been nerfed. We have seen their arguments as well. But in my case, it just makes me not really want to get on and play.

I guess that's my tl;dr point:
The healing change means that the playstyle I have most fun doing is no longer possible.
I can adapt my build to play within the new conditions (and benefit from the change in this case), but I don't find it as fun, so now I play a lot less.

Ryath_Waylander · January 2021

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Former happily solo healing magplar looking for lazy proc build, I guess.

This was me yesterday. May I recommend a nice Julianos and Vicious Death 5 x 5 set up? Helmet and shoulder can be dealers choice.

Just because it’s an oldie doesn’t mean it’s not still a goodie.

Good. I have a grandmastercrafter and my stickerbook is full for Vicious Death. Also I got 650 transmute crystals this morning. Sure I can rustle a monster helm out of my storage chests. It's going to be a novel concept wearing selfish sets, but I guess that is what the powers that be want from solo healers now.

linlilia · January 2021

The only value I see in the changes they made, because I do group and solo in pvp, is that it forced the main pvpers to buy Greymore and Markarth for the Ring of the Pale Order...................

It will be very interesting to see what happens in the pvp event coming up, because pops are super low and the LAG is horrendous, I went in today to clear some maps and only 1 in 10 attacks was hitting away from everyone else in a pop capped campaign (GreyHost) during primetime, and it only took me 1 min to get in.

You wont find any PVErs converting to PVPers with the current PVP situation. It is horrible................

aetherial_heavenn · January 2021

Reaper_00 wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Now at least they have to actually be grouped if they want to be carried by a healer. And that will give them a better chance of killing people.

1vX exists. Of course, its generally successfully done by an experienced player against far less experienced and very disorganized opponents.

And what you ignore here is that the current healing changes should make 1vXing easier than ever. Now, its an experienced player vs far less experienced players who often aren't grouped up and thus can't heal each other.

This change suits 1vXers farming potatoes and DPS zerg surfers tagging with aoes on one bar and running a resto of self heals on the other:

or THE CHEESERS running health tanks with self healing of 18k.

HEALS SHOULD NOT SCALE OFF HEALTH. Over-POWERED heals scaling from spell damage made sustaining big self heals solo easy peasy on mag DPS. This stinks even worse.

When Midyear Mayhem starts and the new PvEers hit Cyro they are going to suffer really badly. I predict oceans of tears. NOT A GOOD PROMOTION OF PVP> Alliance open field PvP is what drew a lot of us to ESO. It's a unique asset. Yet, it seems to be drifting to yet another small arena style play BUT in an alliance war. It makes no sense.

This current situation is just ridiculous. It has made a handful of people happy and upset many more.
1 no performance improvement
2a No ability to join pugs for new healers/support.
2b Almost no zone pickups, even from guild leaders who used to do it because all the LFGs are healers.
3 No useful function for soloers without siege...because they don't have AP. At least they could heal the ram until someone got them organised before this change
4 Ball groups and small groups in voice have extreme advantage now over soloers trying to defend. This compounds the historic one sideness of certain playtimes due to the times when guilds tend to play around the world (aka night-capping by those who forget other counties have their peak while NA are asleep.)
5 More zerg surfing DPS spamming aoes and self heals that tag everything so they never learn to choose targets. Self heals and damage proc sets that proc anyone -targeted or not, grouped or not, mean they don't need to group. This is just plain
unfair.

Please read the thread before responding. Every 5 posts someone says 'just join/make a group. There are fifty ways to say this isn't a solution. Go read them above and think before posting that facile response. Please.

Raevyness · January 2021

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

Reaper_00 wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Now at least they have to actually be grouped if they want to be carried by a healer. And that will give them a better chance of killing people.

1vX exists. Of course, its generally successfully done by an experienced player against far less experienced and very disorganized opponents.

And what you ignore here is that the current healing changes should make 1vXing easier than ever. Now, its an experienced player vs far less experienced players who often aren't grouped up and thus can't heal each other.

This change suits 1vXers farming potatoes and DPS zerg surfers tagging with aoes on one bar and running a resto of self heals on the other:

or THE CHEESERS running health tanks with self healing of 18k.

HEALS SHOULD NOT SCALE OFF HEALTH. Over-POWERED heals scaling from spell damage made sustaining big self heals solo easy peasy on mag DPS. This stinks even worse.

When Midyear Mayhem starts and the new PvEers hit Cyro they are going to suffer really badly. I predict oceans of tears. NOT A GOOD PROMOTION OF PVP> Alliance open field PvP is what drew a lot of us to ESO. It's a unique asset. Yet, it seems to be drifting to yet another small arena style play BUT in an alliance war. It makes no sense.

This current situation is just ridiculous. It has made a handful of people happy and upset many more.
1 no performance improvement
2a No ability to join pugs for new healers/support.
2b Almost no zone pickups, even from guild leaders who used to do it because all the LFGs are healers.
3 No useful function for soloers without siege...because they don't have AP. At least they could heal the ram until someone got them organised before this change
4 Ball groups and small groups in voice have extreme advantage now over soloers trying to defend. This compounds the historic one sideness of certain playtimes due to the times when guilds tend to play around the world (aka night-capping by those who forget other counties have their peak while NA are asleep.)
5 More zerg surfing DPS spamming aoes and self heals that tag everything so they never learn to choose targets. Self heals and damage proc sets that proc anyone -targeted or not, grouped or not, mean they don't need to group. This is just plain
unfair.

Please read the thread before responding. Every 5 posts someone says 'just join/make a group. There are fifty ways to say this isn't a solution. Go read them above and think before posting that facile response. Please.

100% agree. Worst changes yet to come to eso pvp. I hope ZoS reconsider this mistake before pvp in eso becomes dead.