proteinexe wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »Not this again... there are like 100+ threads on this topic.
I know, I've been reading them all and this is my thoughts
proteinexe wrote: »TL;DR - Classes bring people back to the game and there's no good reason not to introduce on to 2021.First off, I'd like to preface this by mentioning that I've been monitoring all the forum posts which mention next year's patch, seeing the opinions and sway of peoples hopes for next year's patch. The core topic which is always brought up (other than performance) is whether or not they'll add a new class to next years Chapter. I fundamentally believe that it is in ZoS's best interest TO make a new class, and here's why:"They should add a new skill line, not a class"
Looking back on the 5 previous chapters, the most hype has always come from the class-based chapters. Morrowind was extremely hyped, but this was partially due to us being allowed to indulge on the nostalgia element of Morrowind, but the introduction of the Warden started a snowball effect where everyone in the community was dabbling in theory-crafting and talking about how they could fit a warden into their current gameplay. I for one returned DUE to Morrowind. I had been out of the loop since a year into the game (I think everyone can think back to the state of ESO at launch), and the concept of a new class drew me back into the game. When I came back to the game, I was surprised to find the guild which I was previously in thriving, and through speaking to them on discord, it was revealed that the majority of returning players were there to try out Warden. This is fundamentally why I'm making this post, to stress the point that classes are one of the core driving forces which make the game thrive, and have a tendency to bring back old players (which we're in dire need off).
The one thing that boggles my mind about the forum thread is when people neglect the concept of a new class due to balancing but then all in favour for the implementation of new weapons and skill lines.. pardon? Forget the positives of a new skill line v. a new class. The damage control and balancing if they screwed up a new skill line compared to a new class is incomparable. The skill lines that have recently been added are lets face it, lackluster in comparison to what we can expect from this update if a skill line is introduced rather than a class (no shade aimed at Psijic or Vampire). A standalone class, no matter how broken, can be fixed with tweaks, not having any impact on the rest of ESO except the class itself. Screwing up a new skill line and making it viable for every class means any tweaking can make the skill-line broken in favour of 'X' class but now useless to 'Y' class. The balancing of a potential new skill-line would mean ZoS would cater for 12 potential class-builds (the stam/mag for each class). If you're complaining about ZoS's ability to balance a single class, why would it be a good idea in the current stage of ESO to add a potentially broken skill line which affects every class? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'd genuinely like to know if I'm missing the point here.
My final point on this is I'm not trying to 'one or the other' this, I'd love for both a skill line AND a class to be added, but that would be a cluster-*** of broken builds to put it lightly."They need to balance other classes first"
I 100% agree. But to neglect the idea of a new class because of the current class hierarchy of 'broken' is in my opinion flawed. ZoS are currently balancing as we discuss. The buff/de-buff changes was a great idea. Some classes (biggest culprits; warden and necromancer), crutched on buffs and de-buffs in both PvP and PvE to obtain free damage or tankiness. Although the class kits make them strong, they've ultimately been hit fairly hard by this nerf. It's almost as if ZoS specifically targeted this nerf around classes which were over-performing : )
ZoS are always striving to make balances to the game, but it must be understood that a game as intricate and complex as ESO will mean any changes the devs make creates a butterfly effect, and with content creators solely looking for the BiS class/setup, there'll always be a build or class or skill which will be abused. To NOT add a class due to balancing would mean a class would never be added.. a bit of a drastic statement, and I understand some classes have ridiculous features (10% damage mitigation for Necros..), but believe it or not, ZoS aren't monkeys that slap a keyboard and eat salt for breakfast (or are they..?), they're employees of a multi-million pound business who probably have extensive experience in this field. I feel that we as the players can sometimes be in serious violation of the 'backseat driver' idiom."All the other classes cover any future classes"
This to me is a redundant statement. ALL the classes can do everything, this is how ZoS designs a class, to be a swiss army knife of Tamreil. All the classes have class kits to support tanking, healing and damage dealing, as well as a substantial ability to participate in PvP. What people really mean is all the current classes cover the THEME of any future classes. Nightblade being the rouge/assassin/hunter/darkmage, and so on (I shan't list them all, but you get the idea). But if you allow my interpretation, then we can 100% slot a new class in. Bard for instance is a theme which isn't even touched on currently, let alone a; monk, battlemage, engineer. For instance, a forum user created a whole new unique class called the 'engineer', and reading through, there are some great standalone skills which don't mingle with any other classes. Here's the link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544786/my-concept-eso-chapter-bronze-legion-includes-zone-map-new-class-item-sets-and-plot-points/p1
My personal favourite concept for a new class is the battlemage. A militant class with a strong influence on offensive support. I feel like there'll be a limit to the amount of classes which ESO can have without stepping on other classes toes, but we're nowhere near that limit currently, and I hope there'll always be brainstorm-ers looking to expand on the class list of ESO.
Cause for concern.
My one cause for concern about this up and coming update is simply COVID. The current Markarth update was great! Really nice story and some good systems implemented, but the bugs were above what is usually expected. I put this down to COVID, as it's probably a lot harder to test the patch when everything is so up in the air. I worry for next year's chapter, and the amount of content that they can reliably put in the game. But ultimately, I'm sure this'll be cleared up in late December/early January with an official statement about the direction of ESO.Although I just wrote a fairly extensive forum thread on the the hopes of a new class being introduced to 2021 ESO, the jokes on me due to the fact that they've most likely already prepared and are in the final development stage for the chapter coming to 2021, class or not. BUT, I feel that the need for a new class needed to be stressed. I'd love to know the communities thoughts, and thank you for reading.
proteinexe wrote: »TL;DR - Classes bring people back to the game and there's no good reason not to introduce on to 2021.First off, I'd like to preface this by mentioning that I've been monitoring all the forum posts which mention next year's patch, seeing the opinions and sway of peoples hopes for next year's patch. The core topic which is always brought up (other than performance) is whether or not they'll add a new class to next years Chapter. I fundamentally believe that it is in ZoS's best interest TO make a new class, and here's why:"They should add a new skill line, not a class"
Looking back on the 5 previous chapters, the most hype has always come from the class-based chapters. Morrowind was extremely hyped, but this was partially due to us being allowed to indulge on the nostalgia element of Morrowind, but the introduction of the Warden started a snowball effect where everyone in the community was dabbling in theory-crafting and talking about how they could fit a warden into their current gameplay. I for one returned DUE to Morrowind. I had been out of the loop since a year into the game (I think everyone can think back to the state of ESO at launch), and the concept of a new class drew me back into the game. When I came back to the game, I was surprised to find the guild which I was previously in thriving, and through speaking to them on discord, it was revealed that the majority of returning players were there to try out Warden. This is fundamentally why I'm making this post, to stress the point that classes are one of the core driving forces which make the game thrive, and have a tendency to bring back old players (which we're in dire need off).
The one thing that boggles my mind about the forum thread is when people neglect the concept of a new class due to balancing but then all in favour for the implementation of new weapons and skill lines.. pardon? Forget the positives of a new skill line v. a new class. The damage control and balancing if they screwed up a new skill line compared to a new class is incomparable. The skill lines that have recently been added are lets face it, lackluster in comparison to what we can expect from this update if a skill line is introduced rather than a class (no shade aimed at Psijic or Vampire). A standalone class, no matter how broken, can be fixed with tweaks, not having any impact on the rest of ESO except the class itself. Screwing up a new skill line and making it viable for every class means any tweaking can make the skill-line broken in favour of 'X' class but now useless to 'Y' class. The balancing of a potential new skill-line would mean ZoS would cater for 12 potential class-builds (the stam/mag for each class). If you're complaining about ZoS's ability to balance a single class, why would it be a good idea in the current stage of ESO to add a potentially broken skill line which affects every class? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'd genuinely like to know if I'm missing the point here.
My final point on this is I'm not trying to 'one or the other' this, I'd love for both a skill line AND a class to be added, but that would be a cluster-*** of broken builds to put it lightly."They need to balance other classes first"
I 100% agree. But to neglect the idea of a new class because of the current class hierarchy of 'broken' is in my opinion flawed. ZoS are currently balancing as we discuss. The buff/de-buff changes was a great idea. Some classes (biggest culprits; warden and necromancer), crutched on buffs and de-buffs in both PvP and PvE to obtain free damage or tankiness. Although the class kits make them strong, they've ultimately been hit fairly hard by this nerf. It's almost as if ZoS specifically targeted this nerf around classes which were over-performing : )
ZoS are always striving to make balances to the game, but it must be understood that a game as intricate and complex as ESO will mean any changes the devs make creates a butterfly effect, and with content creators solely looking for the BiS class/setup, there'll always be a build or class or skill which will be abused. To NOT add a class due to balancing would mean a class would never be added.. a bit of a drastic statement, and I understand some classes have ridiculous features (10% damage mitigation for Necros..), but believe it or not, ZoS aren't monkeys that slap a keyboard and eat salt for breakfast (or are they..?), they're employees of a multi-million pound business who probably have extensive experience in this field. I feel that we as the players can sometimes be in serious violation of the 'backseat driver' idiom."All the other classes cover any future classes"
This to me is a redundant statement. ALL the classes can do everything, this is how ZoS designs a class, to be a swiss army knife of Tamreil. All the classes have class kits to support tanking, healing and damage dealing, as well as a substantial ability to participate in PvP. What people really mean is all the current classes cover the THEME of any future classes. Nightblade being the rouge/assassin/hunter/darkmage, and so on (I shan't list them all, but you get the idea). But if you allow my interpretation, then we can 100% slot a new class in. Bard for instance is a theme which isn't even touched on currently, let alone a; monk, battlemage, engineer. For instance, a forum user created a whole new unique class called the 'engineer', and reading through, there are some great standalone skills which don't mingle with any other classes. Here's the link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544786/my-concept-eso-chapter-bronze-legion-includes-zone-map-new-class-item-sets-and-plot-points/p1
My personal favourite concept for a new class is the battlemage. A militant class with a strong influence on offensive support. I feel like there'll be a limit to the amount of classes which ESO can have without stepping on other classes toes, but we're nowhere near that limit currently, and I hope there'll always be brainstorm-ers looking to expand on the class list of ESO.
Cause for concern.
My one cause for concern about this up and coming update is simply COVID. The current Markarth update was great! Really nice story and some good systems implemented, but the bugs were above what is usually expected. I put this down to COVID, as it's probably a lot harder to test the patch when everything is so up in the air. I worry for next year's chapter, and the amount of content that they can reliably put in the game. But ultimately, I'm sure this'll be cleared up in late December/early January with an official statement about the direction of ESO.Although I just wrote a fairly extensive forum thread on the the hopes of a new class being introduced to 2021 ESO, the jokes on me due to the fact that they've most likely already prepared and are in the final development stage for the chapter coming to 2021, class or not. BUT, I feel that the need for a new class needed to be stressed. I'd love to know the communities thoughts, and thank you for reading.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »proteinexe wrote: »TL;DR - Classes bring people back to the game and there's no good reason not to introduce on to 2021.First off, I'd like to preface this by mentioning that I've been monitoring all the forum posts which mention next year's patch, seeing the opinions and sway of peoples hopes for next year's patch. The core topic which is always brought up (other than performance) is whether or not they'll add a new class to next years Chapter. I fundamentally believe that it is in ZoS's best interest TO make a new class, and here's why:"They should add a new skill line, not a class"
Looking back on the 5 previous chapters, the most hype has always come from the class-based chapters. Morrowind was extremely hyped, but this was partially due to us being allowed to indulge on the nostalgia element of Morrowind, but the introduction of the Warden started a snowball effect where everyone in the community was dabbling in theory-crafting and talking about how they could fit a warden into their current gameplay. I for one returned DUE to Morrowind. I had been out of the loop since a year into the game (I think everyone can think back to the state of ESO at launch), and the concept of a new class drew me back into the game. When I came back to the game, I was surprised to find the guild which I was previously in thriving, and through speaking to them on discord, it was revealed that the majority of returning players were there to try out Warden. This is fundamentally why I'm making this post, to stress the point that classes are one of the core driving forces which make the game thrive, and have a tendency to bring back old players (which we're in dire need off).
The one thing that boggles my mind about the forum thread is when people neglect the concept of a new class due to balancing but then all in favour for the implementation of new weapons and skill lines.. pardon? Forget the positives of a new skill line v. a new class. The damage control and balancing if they screwed up a new skill line compared to a new class is incomparable. The skill lines that have recently been added are lets face it, lackluster in comparison to what we can expect from this update if a skill line is introduced rather than a class (no shade aimed at Psijic or Vampire). A standalone class, no matter how broken, can be fixed with tweaks, not having any impact on the rest of ESO except the class itself. Screwing up a new skill line and making it viable for every class means any tweaking can make the skill-line broken in favour of 'X' class but now useless to 'Y' class. The balancing of a potential new skill-line would mean ZoS would cater for 12 potential class-builds (the stam/mag for each class). If you're complaining about ZoS's ability to balance a single class, why would it be a good idea in the current stage of ESO to add a potentially broken skill line which affects every class? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'd genuinely like to know if I'm missing the point here.
My final point on this is I'm not trying to 'one or the other' this, I'd love for both a skill line AND a class to be added, but that would be a cluster-*** of broken builds to put it lightly."They need to balance other classes first"
I 100% agree. But to neglect the idea of a new class because of the current class hierarchy of 'broken' is in my opinion flawed. ZoS are currently balancing as we discuss. The buff/de-buff changes was a great idea. Some classes (biggest culprits; warden and necromancer), crutched on buffs and de-buffs in both PvP and PvE to obtain free damage or tankiness. Although the class kits make them strong, they've ultimately been hit fairly hard by this nerf. It's almost as if ZoS specifically targeted this nerf around classes which were over-performing : )
ZoS are always striving to make balances to the game, but it must be understood that a game as intricate and complex as ESO will mean any changes the devs make creates a butterfly effect, and with content creators solely looking for the BiS class/setup, there'll always be a build or class or skill which will be abused. To NOT add a class due to balancing would mean a class would never be added.. a bit of a drastic statement, and I understand some classes have ridiculous features (10% damage mitigation for Necros..), but believe it or not, ZoS aren't monkeys that slap a keyboard and eat salt for breakfast (or are they..?), they're employees of a multi-million pound business who probably have extensive experience in this field. I feel that we as the players can sometimes be in serious violation of the 'backseat driver' idiom."All the other classes cover any future classes"
This to me is a redundant statement. ALL the classes can do everything, this is how ZoS designs a class, to be a swiss army knife of Tamreil. All the classes have class kits to support tanking, healing and damage dealing, as well as a substantial ability to participate in PvP. What people really mean is all the current classes cover the THEME of any future classes. Nightblade being the rouge/assassin/hunter/darkmage, and so on (I shan't list them all, but you get the idea). But if you allow my interpretation, then we can 100% slot a new class in. Bard for instance is a theme which isn't even touched on currently, let alone a; monk, battlemage, engineer. For instance, a forum user created a whole new unique class called the 'engineer', and reading through, there are some great standalone skills which don't mingle with any other classes. Here's the link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544786/my-concept-eso-chapter-bronze-legion-includes-zone-map-new-class-item-sets-and-plot-points/p1
My personal favourite concept for a new class is the battlemage. A militant class with a strong influence on offensive support. I feel like there'll be a limit to the amount of classes which ESO can have without stepping on other classes toes, but we're nowhere near that limit currently, and I hope there'll always be brainstorm-ers looking to expand on the class list of ESO.
Cause for concern.
My one cause for concern about this up and coming update is simply COVID. The current Markarth update was great! Really nice story and some good systems implemented, but the bugs were above what is usually expected. I put this down to COVID, as it's probably a lot harder to test the patch when everything is so up in the air. I worry for next year's chapter, and the amount of content that they can reliably put in the game. But ultimately, I'm sure this'll be cleared up in late December/early January with an official statement about the direction of ESO.Although I just wrote a fairly extensive forum thread on the the hopes of a new class being introduced to 2021 ESO, the jokes on me due to the fact that they've most likely already prepared and are in the final development stage for the chapter coming to 2021, class or not. BUT, I feel that the need for a new class needed to be stressed. I'd love to know the communities thoughts, and thank you for reading.
they will 100% include a new class ... is it good? in my opinion now they cant even balance atm...
(they release a new one every 2 years)
proteinexe wrote: »everyone is saying about starting over.. starting over from what? it's a new class, you dont HAVE to play the new class. Also, I'd honestly rather as I said in my thread, a class AND skill-line which merge well, such as spell crafting and battlemage.
"TL;DR - Classes bring people back to the game and there's no good reason not to introduce on to 2021."
Your premise that the population is waning is false. That aside 2021 content is already well into production so any new class would be rushed and not fully developed. If they were working on a new class now I think it would have been leaked in some way by now. Could be wrong though.
Either way you want to bring players back to the game and a new class isn't the best way to go about doing that.
Please no, after the terrible to play mess that Warden and Necro are....I hate to see what they come up with for a new class. I am tired of classes with half their skills on a delayed reaction...Warden and Necro have great toolboxes...but they are absolutely miserable to play compared to the original 4 classes.
TheImperfect wrote: »I'm open to the idea of a new class so long as there is the ability to add it and do everything else that is needed. New classes are always fun, add something fresh to try and make things feel new. I think if it expands on the lore or even adds something new to it that would be great.
I'd love to see clockwork expert or dwarven engineer type. A reach witch could be fun and reach person race. Maormer sea and water expert, watery magic and pirate combat skills with Maormer race. Sword singer. Monk/hand to hand might be fun if done very creatively.
dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »yes
no
2021 needs to give me some more Werewolf Behemoth action. That was fun in Stone Garden.
You know what? How about a new Alchemist class, that can turn into a behemoth!