Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

TequilaFire

Speed of light? lmao
A new mount with rapids is still not that fast of a mount, granted it is better with rapids than without.

SilverBride

TequilaFire wrote: »

Speed of light? lmao
A new mount with rapids is still not that fast of a mount, granted it is better with rapids than without.

If it's not that big a difference then what is all the uproar about?

esotoon

SilverBride wrote: »

I know what you were referring to, but your statement as I quoted pretty much summed up my opinion on the subject. Noobs are just that. They shouldn't have the best gear, and all their skills maxed, and full CP.

No one has asked for them to have the best gear, to have their skills maxed and full cp.

Nor should they be rushing around the world at the speed of light. They need to level and develop their character, not start off fully decked. And that includes mount speed.

Rapids on a new horse, isn't in any way close to the speed of light. It's 30% faster.

TequilaFire

SilverBride wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Speed of light? lmao
A new mount with rapids is still not that fast of a mount, granted it is better with rapids than without.

If it's not that big a difference then what is all the uproar about?

You have the most posts. lol

SilverBride

TequilaFire wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Speed of light? lmao
A new mount with rapids is still not that fast of a mount, granted it is better with rapids than without.

If it's not that big a difference then what is all the uproar about?

You have the most posts. lol

If this is true, then most of the posts in this thread are against changing this back.

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Speed of light? lmao
A new mount with rapids is still not that fast of a mount, granted it is better with rapids than without.

If it's not that big a difference then what is all the uproar about?

You have the most posts. lol

If this is true, then most of the posts in this thread are against changing this back.

Nobody wants it changed back. Your Vigor is safe.

We just want it swapped with Siege Shield, so both are available to lvl 10 players, both PvP and PvE.

However, if ZOS had wanted us to have easy Rapids, they would have already done that. Instead, they are burying it farther up the skill line so people will pay for riding lessons, Alliance War skill lines for their alts, 2 person mounts, and the new Crown Store Alliance War Skill line xp scrolls.

There are a few different words for taking something away from someone and charging them to get it back. None of them are nice.

Zephiran23

SilverBride wrote: »

Obsidian3 wrote: »

Monster Helms and the Undaunted Mettle Passive were never intended for PvP, its was made for completing 4-person dungeons and Trials only...

I already explained this once, but I will explain it again. Everything is OK to be used in PvP. All gear, all skills, everything. And this is why.

I am a Sorcerer all the time. So no matter where I am in game, I am still a Sorcerer. So of course I can use the same gear and skills as I choose. I don't stop being a Sorcerer because I entered Cyrodiil.

BUT... I am only a PvP'r in Cyrodiil. So of course some skills are going to be tailored just for PvP.

You are also a PVPer in Imperial City and Battlegrounds. The riding component is limited in IC, but for traversing above ground zones your faction doesn't own Rapids can work well. Combined with your PVE Dark Brotherhood skill line the mobs are not a problem. I don't think Shadow Rider was tailored specifically for this, but it works nicely.

Battlegrounds is a bit trickier, no riding, but you can get to flags etc quicker without needing to wear run speed sets. Is the cost worth it? Maybe for organised groups.

For PVE areas try getting to a Harrowstorm during the current event without Rapids on a partially trained horse at peak times before it's taken down. If it's called early you can do it. If not by the time you spot 1 from a wayshrine, negotiate your way around cliffs and mobs, it's so much fun arriving to see the final boss collapse.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

you STILL haven't addressed the fact that not having rapids early on, hurts low level PVP characters even more so then it does pve characters.

I never even brought that up, so why would I have to address it? Besides, I don't really have to explain anything to anyone.

I think the change was a good thing. Period.

ah. so you continue to go along with selective myopathy and hypocrisy. I was the one who brought this up in response to your claim that its meant to be used in Cyrodil. here is a use in Cyrodil.

what is a good change. making it harder for newer pvp characters to get around pvp zone? is THAT a good change? or are you just doubling down on your claims because reasons? I mean... i know its human nature for most people when shown evidence that they are wrong - to deny it even more. you are just showing that you are typical human. but that doesn't change that you. are. WRONG. and your opinion? is NOT a fact.

and btw. a single person who is being stubborn =/= majority of opinion. you will probably deny this as well, but doesn't change that either. a single person with a lot of posts is STILL. a SINGLE. PERSON.

Sgrug

Just bring it back already, how much outrage do you need to see over this? Only reason now to keep it like this is you plan to monetize speed in the game.

Single most monetized element in games now is time, speed is time, not hard to figure out why you did this and it is WRONG!

SilverBride

Sgrug wrote: »

Just bring it back already, how much outrage do you need to see over this?

It would be a very bad precedent to set if they gave in to the outrage of a few people. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Obsidian3

SilverBride wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Just bring it back already, how much outrage do you need to see over this?

It would be a very bad precedent to set if they gave in to the outrage of a few people. [snip]

LOL! They give in the all the time, that's why <list skill here> was nerfed. Obviously, you don't pay attention to the game. Also when people who give you money get angry and dissatisfied with your product, usually they stop giving you money. That's a bad business model.

SilverBride

They may listen to feedback and make changes accordingly, but that's not the same as giving in to a minority who are "outraged", and accusing them of shady businesses practices.

Thechuckage

If it was hurting the bottom line enough, I'm fairly sure it would get reverted. (Oh and there have been people calling for just that early on, contrary to the latest opinion.)

Back to the point at hand, the forums are a fraction of the game population. Some kind of majority consensus here (like that would ever happen) isn't likely to sway them. You can peruse the PTS bug threads to verify how much player discontent gets overwritten by....well whatever the plan is on ZoS side.

Frankly the longer this has stayed, the more likely it is to stay. If changes were constantly getting reversed every other week, the game would come off as directionless and the devs as extremely fickle. That's probably why they just do it about once a month for a few things at a time (cough DoT change cough)

SilverBride

What tells me that it's a small minority wanting this changed is the fact that I've yet to hear a single person complain about it in game.

Linaleah

ah, the infamous "I didn't personaly see it - therefore it doesn't exist" defense. about as logical as every other argument you have brought up so far.

SilverBride

If this was really that big an issue, people would be talking about it in game.

Nicole94

SilverBride wrote: »

If this was really that big an issue, people would be talking about it in game.

Why would you? Again you misunderstand this entire thread [snip] People vent their frustration in discord often, but not long rants, you just move on, why? Because there are NO ESO employees in our discord and no ESO employees talking in Zone chat in the game.
We have came here to let our grievances be known to the developers of the game, IN HOPES of them changing rapids back, as this will DIRECTLY impact new players a lot, and inconvenience veteran players that are still making new characters. I have 2 atm that are a little over 30% speed training that I still can't be bothered to play. I even asked ZoS to refund me crowns for character slots because I bought them with the assumption that rapids, which has ALWAYS been easy to obtain, would always be easy to obtain.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

If this was really that big an issue, people would be talking about it in game.

Come to my part of the game, people talk about it all the time. In all five of my guilds.

I know people personally who have quit because they woke up one day and were moving in slow motion for no apparent reason. The majority of players don't come to the forums, read patch notes, or any of the stuff we do. They just log in, say, "Oh, this sucks. My skill got locked for no reason. Oh well, more reason to check out that other game I was looking at", and they log out forever.

esotoon

SilverBride wrote: »

If this was really that big an issue, people would be talking about it in game.

There were still plenty of complaints about it in Greymoor yesterday. Lots of people missing Harrowstorms.

However, if we are now using what we have personally seen in Zone chat as a judge of how important something is, do you know what I have never seen said once in Zone chat? "I sure wish Rapids was swapped with Vigor".

JoeCapricorn

I see people in guild and zone chat talk about the Rapids change all the time, which is why this particular change is virtually impossible to ignore. Even when I am on my main doing whatever I will see someone make a comment about it.

In Zone chat, almost always there is some rude comment in response. Never is the response offering a compelling argument in favor of the change to Rapid Maneuver. No one opposing this change is necessarily disputing that Vigor shouldn't be more accessible, as there are numerous solutions that would involve allowing for both to be freely available. Swapping Vigor or Rapids with Siege Shield, for instance, wouldn't affect anyone who uses Siege Shield as it is a skill that is much more tailored to PVP and therefore it would not be inconveniencing a large segment of the playerbase.

It would also be nice to have Rapid Maneuver back sooner rather than later before the Lost Treasures event ends so people can actually get to Harrowstorms in time.

Jaraal

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

It would also be nice to have Rapid Maneuver back sooner rather than later before the Lost Treasures event ends so people can actually get to Harrowstorms in time.

They are well aware of the issues players normally have getting to harrowstorms and dragons in Northern Elsweyr. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that Rapids was ganked just before they knew it would have maximum effect on players trying to grind for event boxes. Makes people more desperate and likely to reach for their wallets for slow travel relief.

I've witnessed cases this week where world boss share groups got tired of waiting for slow players to show up and just went ahead and started without them. I feel bad for folks who used to be able to get around efficiently, and through no fault of their own have been callously prevented from enjoying the game as they have for years.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and feedback about this change. We’ve been reading your feedback since this change went onto the PTS, and we understand the concerns you’ve presented here. Ultimately, this swap happened so Stamina builds have access to a heal earlier in the leveling experience. While we recognize being able to have Rapids as the first skill to use on other characters is convenient, Vigor is considered a must-have for Stamina build survivability, so giving access to the heal earlier is a major quality of life improvement for those players. We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.

allhailskippy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and feedback about this change. We’ve been reading your feedback since this change went onto the PTS, and we understand the concerns you’ve presented here. Ultimately, this swap happened so Stamina builds have access to a heal earlier in the leveling experience. While we recognize being able to have Rapids as the first skill to use on other characters is convenient, Vigor is considered a must-have for Stamina build survivability, so giving access to the heal earlier is a major quality of life improvement for those players. We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.

Nobody is asking to revert it.

We are asking to move rapids to the 3rd slot instead of the 5th so that it's not an insane grind to get it on those of use with lots of additional characters.

This response comes off as very tone deaf to the concerns presented.

TequilaFire

Well thanks for the answer, but some how I got by for over six years with Vigor the way it was.
New players are so over buffed it wasn't necessary.
It is what it is.

Sgrug

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and feedback about this change. We’ve been reading your feedback since this change went onto the PTS, and we understand the concerns you’ve presented here. Ultimately, this swap happened so Stamina builds have access to a heal earlier in the leveling experience. While we recognize being able to have Rapids as the first skill to use on other characters is convenient, Vigor is considered a must-have for Stamina build survivability, so giving access to the heal earlier is a major quality of life improvement for those players. We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.

Thank you for the clarification. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Definitely not asking to revert it back.

Would like Rapids to be moved up or swapped or in someway made achievable earlier in the line as it is also a major QoL improvement. If this is not something Zen wants to do could we please know why Rapids needs to be so much more difficult to achieve now?

code65536

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and feedback about this change. We’ve been reading your feedback since this change went onto the PTS, and we understand the concerns you’ve presented here. Ultimately, this swap happened so Stamina builds have access to a heal earlier in the leveling experience. While we recognize being able to have Rapids as the first skill to use on other characters is convenient, Vigor is considered a must-have for Stamina build survivability, so giving access to the heal earlier is a major quality of life improvement for those players. We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno You don't need to revert it. Keep Vigor as the first skill, requiring Assault rank 2. Keep Rapids as the second skill. There's no need to backtrack on any of those changes.

Just reduce the requirement for Rapids from Assault rank 5 (98K AP) down to Assault rank 3 (8K AP). The choice between Vigor or Rapids is a false choice. You can give players both.

Nidhoeggr

allhailskippy wrote: »

We are asking to move rapids to the 3rd slot instead of the 5th so that it's not an insane grind to get it on those of use with lots of additional characters.

[snip] As a manly pvp player [snip] I have to level undaunted to 9 with each char, I have to farm gear, do veteran trials for weapons. Alliance Rank 5 for a convenience skill (you can play perfectly without it) is not unreasonable. As GinaBruno says: Vigor is very important for many stam builds.

[edited for baiting]

Ratinira

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and feedback about this change. We’ve been reading your feedback since this change went onto the PTS, and we understand the concerns you’ve presented here. Ultimately, this swap happened so Stamina builds have access to a heal earlier in the leveling experience. While we recognize being able to have Rapids as the first skill to use on other characters is convenient, Vigor is considered a must-have for Stamina build survivability, so giving access to the heal earlier is a major quality of life improvement for those players. We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.

Interresting post.
It makes me feel that you were reading something else then our feedback...

-We were not asking why you moved vigor, we were asking why you took rapid from us. From healers, tanks, gatherers, and magicka characters
-We are not asking to take away vigor from minority, we are asking to return rapid to majority. We provided you with plenty of suggestions.

You are happy with changes performing, but your players are not happy with that changes. That rises some questions...

Nidhoeggr

Nidhoeggr wrote: »

manly

Lol "mainly"

its_Chalman

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and feedback about this change. We’ve been reading your feedback since this change went onto the PTS, and we understand the concerns you’ve presented here. Ultimately, this swap happened so Stamina builds have access to a heal earlier in the leveling experience. While we recognize being able to have Rapids as the first skill to use on other characters is convenient, Vigor is considered a must-have for Stamina build survivability, so giving access to the heal earlier is a major quality of life improvement for those players. We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.

Im sorry but that doesnt make sense! We all here agree for sure that vigor early will be a quality of life improvment for those who plays stam.. But rapid manouver its a qualitty of life for those who plays.. stam.. mag.. healer.. tank.. everbody!

You could consider both skills necessary in the beggining ov a new char ( of courser vigor.. to stam players have a proper heal.. but also manouver as everbody start with mount speed 0) and if the ideal is to make more achivable easier.. thats why you guys put vigor on the first skill slot.. why manouver is just in assault rank 5?

To be honest.. the way of thinking on this is.. as everbody will still need manouver and they will not want the grind for it on new characters.. thay are be pushed to buy mount speed on crown store.. Its whats looks like!

A easy fix is make assautl rank works diferent.. and the unlock on assault 3 .. could be swaped with rapid manouver.. That way vigor AND manouver will be easy to achive.