Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

Ninrod86

I keep imagining how much of a failure some one is that he simple cannont get RM in the game the way it is now.

Cmon ... 2 wins on BG?

esotoon

Ninrod86 wrote: »

Cmon ... 2 wins on BG?

Jump into BGs on a level 10 character and see how long it takes you to get 2 wins.

But once again, if your point is that it is easy so the change doesn't matter, then, surely the same was true for Vigor?

Linaleah

Ninrod86 wrote: »

I keep imagining how much of a failure some one is that he simple cannont get RM in the game the way it is now.

Cmon ... 2 wins on BG?

how much AP does a win in battlegrounds give you? and assume that its being done by a crafting mule who got lucky with a group but unlikely to have gathered a lot of medals for themselves. and since people concerned with this change are NOT dedicated pvpers - very likely has a negative kill to death ratio.

Nestor

Jaraal wrote: »

Wow, the free fall is real. Almost 11% drop now.

Any predictions how September will end up?

Since this change, I have logged about 3 hours in the game, and two of those were for a Guild Event one night. I have logged in once in a while to pay guild dues, but have not played any content since this change.

Yea, this Rapids change sucks this bad.

Forcedminer

awful awful change. punishing players for trying to have fun by getting around a lil faster. forcing them to play a gamemode they literally don't want to. oh yeah getting stomped by mix-maxers in pvp how ""Fun.""

thats just going to slow down the game for alot of players And a slow game gets Boring Fast.

Hopefully i can just spam vigor a bunch of times to get level 5

ah cool you can't

and there i was feeling like the nightmare horse stick was a Bad deal. good to see you "finally" gave it a proper warning that it doesn't get any bonus speeds. good job on that.

well im not gonna grind out pvp in a gamemode i hate just so all my characters can move a little bit faster

time to clear up 76 gb's

Jaraal

Nestor wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Wow, the free fall is real. Almost 11% drop now.

Any predictions how September will end up?

Since this change, I have logged about 3 hours in the game, and two of those were for a Guild Event one night. I have logged in once in a while to pay guild dues, but have not played any content since this change.

Yea, this Rapids change sucks this bad.

Yeah, it keeps getting worse by the day. On pace for a record setting one month drop.


https://steamcharts.com/app/306130


Trying to imagine what was going through their minds when they decided to push this change through. Drawing a blank, unfortunately.

DarcyMardin

Somewhat to my surprise, I’m not missing the ESO+ subscription that I cancelled because of this. In fact, I’m hardly playing at all and not missing the game much, either.

silvereyes

Natch potes are out.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6958278/#Comment_6958278

No mention of Rapids at all. They did add some buff food recipes and ingredients for +50%, +100% and +150% Alliance War skill line leveling, but the better ones will probably be pricey and still require a fair amount of grinding. It's a good addition to the game, but not really a solution to the Rapids issue for those of us with lots of alts.

silvereyes

For the record, I've now re-unlocked Rapids on 5 toons, and I'm already kind of burnt out, even with double AP. There's only so much Cyrodiil I can enjoy before the slow horse, far-away objectives and non-firing abilities overwhelm any fun I'm having.

Dragonborn1973

Any idea when they will revert the change, the game is becoming very slow getting from A to B.
Also the horse leveling is a joke the progression is way to slow, the first month you can not use your horse because you will be faster just running ...
Maybe they should inform new players that you can get a mount but the first month the speed will suck.

Well back to Black Desert then.

pkostadinov

silvereyes wrote: »

Natch potes are out.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6958278/#Comment_6958278

No mention of Rapids at all. They did add some buff food recipes and ingredients for +50%, +100% and +150% Alliance War skill line leveling, but the better ones will probably be pricey and still require a fair amount of grinding. It's a good addition to the game, but not really a solution to the Rapids issue for those of us with lots of alts.

Yes, the new foods may look like a help, but getting them requires significant random grind in all 3 different PvP modes.
So, more of "go there and there and there, but not where you like to go" - as a tool to make leveling non-pvp toons it helps with nothing.
This seems to be another money source for people who do lots of PvP, but with the caveat that they will have to do some non-pvp activity to get recipes/ingredients. But making people want to run and pick flowers in Cyrodill doesn't seem like the best addition to the campaigns.

Is feels like it's someone's idea, that if they add more pvp cross-mode stuff, this will make pvp players stick more and to all modes. Not sure if this will work for enough people.
But for me it feels like another "want stuff? go where you don't want to go, to get it!". No thanks, I have a job already and they are paying me to do it - no need to pay to get another one.

Anyway, the Plus membership I canceled in August expires these days and I don't see myself playing Inventory Management Online with a full bank, so that means a break for me.

For ZOS, I would suggest - care more that your players have the freedom to have fun in your game and less about putting more strings that will force them grind like a job. Players that have fun may return again and again, but frustrated players probably will never look back.

Jaraal

pkostadinov wrote: »

Yes, the new foods may look like a help, but getting them requires significant random grind in all 3 different PvP modes.
So, more of "go there and there and there, but not where you like to go" - as a tool to make leveling non-pvp toons it helps with nothing.

Yeah, they want you to do quests that require a lot of travel, or harvest a ton of spread out materials on the slight chance of getting an ultra rare drop.... without Rapids to get around Cyrodiil. Meanwhile, dedicated PvPers who still have Rapids are making 150% AP from killing slow PvEers trying to collect materials.

It's almost like they've known they were getting sold for a while, so here..... take posession of your nearly empty game. Look how well the servers run with just a handful of people still playing!

silvereyes

pkostadinov wrote: »

This seems to be another money source for people who do lots of PvP, but with the caveat that they will have to do some non-pvp activity to get recipes/ingredients.

It seems more like a boon to people who farm Tel Var.

Both new Tel Var merchant items for the Molten War Torte (+100%) recipe booster and ingredient are bought with Tel Var and can be sold at guild traders for gold.

The Colovian War Torte recipe (+50%) drops "in the wilds", and Cyrodiil Citrus drops from town quests, so my guess is that there will be so many of them, and the price will be so low, that it won't be much of a source of income.

If the rarity of Aetheric Cipher / Dust are any indication, Chef Arquitius's Lost Thesis and Mourning Dew (+150% alliance skill) won't really be grindable. They will be too rare to afford any guarantee of success after a reasonable amount of effort.

Donny_Vito

With the bonus storage of Transmute crystals, now is a good time to knock out two birds with one stone: grind a little bit for RM and Tier 1 reward.

silvereyes

Jaraal wrote: »

Meanwhile, dedicated PvPers who still have Rapids are making 150% AP from killing slow PvEers trying to collect materials.

It’s not +150% AP. It’s +150% Alliance War skill leveling rate.

Edit: to be clear, I'm not trying to invalidate your point. Just correcting an inaccuracy.

Varana

I'm also not quite sure where the business in this will be.
Acquiring the higher-tier recipes will be expensive - 500k Tel Var requires quite a bit of farming IC. But then, the use of the item is rather ... limited. You level the Alliance War skill lines only once on a char, and even for players with 15+ characters, buying the recipe might not be worth it. So people will probably sell the food item itself; let's see if there's enough demand that it'll get put up for sale regularly.
In the end, if this was meant to alleviate the Rapids shift (which I doubt), it's a very convoluted and impractical "solution".

esotoon

Varana wrote: »

I'm also not quite sure where the business in this will be.

It will allow the equivalent to be put in the Crown Store/Crates, without ESO being able to be accused of being pay to win, because "you can get the same item in game". That's where the business is in all this.

Varana

I was referring to the ingame economy, i.e. for players.
Which doesn't invalidate what you said, to make that clear.

DigitalHype

Jaraal wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Wow, the free fall is real. Almost 11% drop now.

Any predictions how September will end up?

Since this change, I have logged about 3 hours in the game, and two of those were for a Guild Event one night. I have logged in once in a while to pay guild dues, but have not played any content since this change.

Yea, this Rapids change sucks this bad.

Yeah, it keeps getting worse by the day. On pace for a record setting one month drop.


https://steamcharts.com/app/306130


Trying to imagine what was going through their minds when they decided to push this change through. Drawing a blank, unfortunately.

I'll tell you what I think was going through their minds. "We need to hit those target revenue and op cost reduction numbers at all costs in order to close this 4.5 billion dollar sale to Microsoft."

DigitalHype

Dragonborn1973 wrote: »

Any idea when they will revert the change, the game is becoming very slow getting from A to B.
Also the horse leveling is a joke the progression is way to slow, the first month you can not use your horse because you will be faster just running ...
Maybe they should inform new players that you can get a mount but the first month the speed will suck.

Well back to Black Desert then.

I doubt they will revert the change. The Alliance skill lines go on sale in the crown store with the upcoming DLC. They likely want to sell a target number of those to players who already have rank 10 on at least one character but have been holding off on levling all of their alts. *Maybe* once those sales dry up they consider a reversion. But, I doubt it.

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Meanwhile, dedicated PvPers who still have Rapids are making 150% AP from killing slow PvEers trying to collect materials.

It’s not +150% AP. It’s +150% Alliance War skill leveling rate.

Edit: to be clear, I'm not trying to invalidate your point. Just correcting an inaccuracy.

Yes, my bad. Thanks for pointing that out.

Makes it even more confusing, because the only thing these foods are useful for is temporary skill leveling. If they gave a bonus to AP generation, they would be useful for everyone playing in Cyro and IC.

And it's actually insulting to players, because you know these recipes are going to sell for millions of gold, and will be much easier to farm by players who can already get around quickly, as Cyrodiil is a huge zone. So if you want to get your Rapids back, pay through the nose or grind play that you don't like if you don't PvP.

JoeCapricorn

Each time I log in I just get reminded of this disastrous change, so I don't think I am going to go away anytime soon. I care about ESO, I love playing the game, but two things are really upsetting me: The Rapid Maneuver change was pushed through with NO feedback, and they are still largely silent on addressing the community about it. This was a change almost as major as the proposed light attack changes but they did not ASK us about it or even acknowledge the protests on the PTS.

So I am not going to stop posting about it.

Let's keep this thread on the front page.

Arunei

Ninrod86 wrote: »

I keep imagining how much of a failure some one is that he simple cannont get RM in the game the way it is now.

Cmon ... 2 wins on BG?

I keep imagining how immature and rude someone has to be to call other people failures for being rightfully upset for having what to many was a critical QoL feature taken from them when there were other alternatives that would have made Vigor AND Rapids easily available for everyone.

Also by your logic, there was no need to swap Vigor and Rapids in the first place, if it was so easy and fast and simple to get to Rank 5. So tell me, were people failures before for 'not being able' to get Vigor? If the change was done to make the game 'healthier' for Stam chars needing a heal, doesn't that say loud and clear that it's obviously a problem getting to that rank?

I swear the people who keep saying this change is fine and people who want Rapids back can get it in clearly unrealistic amounts of time (which why would you even lie about that to begin with, other than to show you don't know what you're talking about) really aren't stopping to consider the same would be true for Vigor, so there would have been no need to swap their positions to begin with. And speaking of people not knowing what they're talking about, the person I quoted above must truly not realize how much AP it takes to get from Rank 1 to 5, or even from 4 to 5, and that it's definitely not enough to just get '2 wins on BG'.

silvereyes

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah, it keeps getting worse by the day. On pace for a record setting one month drop.
https://steamcharts.com/app/306130
Trying to imagine what was going through their minds when they decided to push this change through. Drawing a blank, unfortunately.

I think your schadenfreude is misplaced. There's almost always a Christmas bump with sales, and then a slow taper off the rest of the year.

This year, you can add in a Covid-quarantine bump, but now we seem to be reverting to the mean. More businesses are re-opening, schools are back in session, parents are strapped for time with trying to work from home while playing assistant teacher for their remote-school kids.... People are getting back to reality.

You can see similar trends playing out across the industry:

• BDO: https://steamcharts.com/app/582660
• Destiny 2: https://steamcharts.com/app/1085660
• Skyrim: Special Edition: https://steamcharts.com/app/489830

With that massive of a market force in effect, it's going to be nearly impossible to assign praise or blame for any bumps or dips that may or may not occur due to the game itself.

SilverBride

The impact of this change has been grossly exaggerated. It's a minority of players who ever even used rapids, except in PvP, with many, like myself, who didn't even know it existed before. That is why most of the posts asking to revert the change are by the same handful of players.

Some people may want it, and some people may like it, and some people may have gotten used to it, but no one needs it.

Rapids wasn't taken away. You can get it back. I really wish people would accept that, and take some of the advice given on ways to earn this back to heart, and just go do it.

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

pkostadinov wrote: »

This seems to be another money source for people who do lots of PvP, but with the caveat that they will have to do some non-pvp activity to get recipes/ingredients.

It seems more like a boon to people who farm Tel Var.

Both new Tel Var merchant items for the Molten War Torte (+100%) recipe booster and ingredient are bought with Tel Var and can be sold at guild traders for gold.

The Colovian War Torte recipe (+50%) drops "in the wilds", and Cyrodiil Citrus drops from town quests, so my guess is that there will be so many of them, and the price will be so low, that it won't be much of a source of income.

If the rarity of Aetheric Cipher / Dust are any indication, Chef Arquitius's Lost Thesis and Mourning Dew (+150% alliance skill) won't really be grindable. They will be too rare to afford any guarantee of success after a reasonable amount of effort.

Incidentally, on the test server you can buy Crown Store versions of these Alliance War Skill xp modifiers. So players without millions of gold or the desire to farm for ultra rare ingredients can simply pay cash for the opportunity to get back their Rapids 150% faster.

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

The impact of this change has been grossly exaggerated. It's a minority of players who ever even used rapids, except in PvP, with many, like myself, who didn't even know it existed before. That is why most of the posts asking to revert the change are by the same handful of players.

Some people may want it, and some people may like it, and some people may have gotten used to it, but no one needs it.

Rapids wasn't taken away. You can get it back. I really wish people would accept that, and take some of the advice given on ways to earn this back to heart, and just go do it.

You can cook your food on top of the stove and in an oven, too, if you don't have a microwave. And to those who have never owned a microwave, cooking food is still just as fast as it's always been.

SilverBride

Jaraal wrote: »

You can cook your food on top of the stove and in an oven, too, if you don't have a microwave. And to those who have never owned a microwave, cooking food is still just as fast as it's always been.

That's a very good analogy, but you overlooked some important facts. No matter how long it takes to cook your food, you are still able to fix a meal. And your microwave may no longer be working, but you have the opportunity to buy a new one.

Sylvermynx

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

You can cook your food on top of the stove and in an oven, too, if you don't have a microwave. And to those who have never owned a microwave, cooking food is still just as fast as it's always been.

That's a very good analogy, but you overlooked some important facts. No matter how long it takes to cook your food, you are still able to fix a meal. And your microwave may no longer be working, but you have the opportunity to buy a new one.

That doesn't speak to the fact that something many people valued was removed, and something most don't value was its replacement.

I don't have a horse in this race - I never used rapids, and after trying vigor on my stam characters, it's not such a much. But fair is fair. Something that's been available for YEARS should not be removed arbitrarily.

Bad ZOS, just bad.

SilverBride

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Something that's been available for YEARS should not be removed arbitrarily.

It wasn't removed. It was just moved deeper into the skill line. And this is how online gaming works. They have the right to make changes any time they want, without warning, and have zero obligation to even discuss it with the playerbase, let alone ask for their permission.

Is this good business? Yes and no. But it is what it is.

I am sorry this has been so devastating to some. But if I relied so heavily on this skill I'd be working toward unlocking it again. Because I very much doubt it will be changed.