Bug some players received 60k-100k crowns

Jeremy

redgreensunset wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

...to uh, ya, this.....um....punishing players because ZOS made a deposit in their bank that shouldn't have happened. ZOS messes up, then punishes the players for the ZOS mistake.

wow. just wow.

Spending crowns or gold that the game auto deposits to you is definitely not an exploit. If I find a $20 on the ground while walking into the grocery store, it becomes mine unless someone is standing right there trying to pick it up because they just dropped it. ...and $20 real money is worth $20 more than 100k crowns.

..and on that note, I better log in and check my crown supply! This kind of thing never happens to me for some reason.

False analogy. It's more like waking up finding 300k on your bank account that you know weren't there yesterday and which you aren't sure where comes from. You're the one who is going to be charged with, I believe in the US it would be fraud, even if it is a banking clerk error. Because you should have known that money weren't yours to spend.

They would be charged with theft probably, if they spent it. Fraud - at least over here in the U.S. - requires an intent to misrepresent or deceive someone.

Okay theft then. In my country this falls under fraud laws, but US is clearly different. Still doesn't mean it's not illegal.

No that's right, you're broader point that it would be illegal out in the real world still stands. I wasn't trying to quibble - just clarify since you seemed unsure of U.S. law.

CelestialSlayer

but in monopoly when there is a bank error its in your favour....

Gilvoth

CelestialSlayer wrote: »

but in monopoly when there is a bank error its in your favour....

here in the united states that is also the Law.
if your bank is telling you that you have 2 million and gives you a reciept saying that.
then you are not going to get arrested for spending it even tho you KNOW for a Fact that money was not there yesterday and its an error.
the Bank is at fault here - Not the Customer.

Synnastix

I would’ve bought crown crates then got a ton of gems out of it at least.

RefLiberty

@Gilvoth

Yeah, but you need to have THAT receipt still.
And even if you get it for bazillion of anything, someone needs to issue it, that someone is prone to internal or criminal investigation why that receipt is issued.
That furthermore can lead to criminal charges for you and the issuer of receipt for fraud, or for forming a group to commit crime, which falls under organized crime charges.

You are oversimplifying things a bit, a receipt is not a final word written is stone. You still need to prove the ownership and origin of money (anti money laundering laws) if investigation occurs.

Cheers.

Beardimus

Khatou wrote: »

I got wind, of an important bug that some players would have had 60k/100k crowns on their account by mistake?

Suprised it too so long to make it here.

Basically the majority of people got them and most of those have spent them.

ZOS say it's an exploit but apparently didnt act the last time. As for removing it all, do we really think that's an easy capability?

Literally trawling through all that stuff, people have been opening 100s of crates, and reconning stuff for gems etc. I can't fathom how much effort it would take for ZOS to sort it out.

With the crowns to gold exchange as well folks been selling like mad so economy is destroyed.

Rollback sounds the only answer but has anyone seen that happen on console on this level of complexity?

Just wow. Huge to sort out. I'm ignoring the 100k odd I got given but I'm more nervous about getting my 35k back I had in credit and obviously it's not safe to make purchases.

Why hasn't ZOS locked out the crown store??

Khatou

TineaCruris wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

...to uh, ya, this.....um....punishing players because ZOS made a deposit in their bank that shouldn't have happened. ZOS messes up, then punishes the players for the ZOS mistake.

wow. just wow.

Spending crowns or gold that the game auto deposits to you is definitely not an exploit. If I find a $20 on the ground while walking into the grocery store, it becomes mine unless someone is standing right there trying to pick it up because they just dropped it. ...and $20 real money is worth $20 more than 100k crowns.

..and on that note, I better log in and check my crown supply! This kind of thing never happens to me for some reason.

TineaCruris wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

...to uh, ya, this.....um....punishing players because ZOS made a deposit in their bank that shouldn't have happened. ZOS messes up, then punishes the players for the ZOS mistake.

wow. just wow.

Spending crowns or gold that the game auto deposits to you is definitely not an exploit. If I find a $20 on the ground while walking into the grocery store, it becomes mine unless someone is standing right there trying to pick it up because they just dropped it. ...and $20 real money is worth $20 more than 100k crowns.

..and on that note, I better log in and check my crown supply! This kind of thing never happens to me for some reason.

Let's not forget people's naivety, too, WAOUUUH 60k-100k crown as if by magic on my account, I didn't buy anything, but it's all right, it's normal, I take and use without question, a ban wouldn't be that excessive, when there's an abuse of anomaly.

Tandor

Bug or exploit? I wonder.

I also wonder what on earth there is in the Crown Store that someone could spend 100K crowns on.

JamieAubrey

Why does these neat bugs never happen to me, I'd like to look at 100k crowns and say, Yep I had that amount

Beardimus

Tandor wrote: »

Bug or exploit? I wonder.

I also wonder what on earth there is in the Crown Store that someone could spend 100K crowns on.

People have been opening crates all day.

Gifting things

Exchanging for gold

Think about the options, by the time you bought a mansion or two, assistants are 5K each, mounts, DLCs that's before you go wild.

Syldras

TineaCruris wrote: »

If I find a $20 on the ground while walking into the grocery store, it becomes mine unless someone is standing right there trying to pick it up because they just dropped it.

Depends on your legislation, but there are countries where you would have to hand it in at the next lost property office, bank or townhall, otherwise it's considered theft. Of course most people wouldn't do it, but if someone sees it, it would get you in trouble.

As for bank errors where people accidentially received a transaction not meant for them: Those things have happened in the past, it's not a criminal offense in every country, but I think there's none where you're just allowed to keep it. It always has to be returned.

UGotBenched91

Too bad everything in the crown store is crap.

StolenEyes

I’m not sure about fraud/theft legislation in such cases here in the UK, but you can be sure that there is something in Zenimax’s TOS that explicitly cover a situation such as this.

I myself received 78,000 Crowns, soon after legitimately purchasing 21,000. The first thing I did was put in a ticket to Support and ask the ESO Twitter account what was going on. When I mentioned this in guild chat (in a particular guild I suspect I will not be a member of for much longer) I was mocked and ridiculed for reporting it.

That Twitter screenshot is typical of others I have seen. “I thought it was a reward”. “I thought it was a gift”. Some players received in many cases hundreds of dollars/sterling in premium virtual currency - and instead of investigating, didn’t question it or try to find out why it was suddenly in their account. Just thought it was theirs to spend, and then started whining with self-entitlement when it was suggested they shouldn’t have.

Maybe it’s because I’m older (52) and hopefully a little more wiser, but we must always be cautious in these situations. And I’m not spending a single Crown, even those I know are mine, until ZOS give us a definitive answer as to what they’re going to do.

Aendruu

I'm curious why ZOS only made the announcement on Twitter, when surely they must realise not everyone uses that platform? Why is there no statement here in the forum?

Gilvoth

this is obviously a grey area

jircris11

If it is true, they will just remove what was bought with it.

stybbe17b16_ESO

jircris11 wrote: »

If it is true, they will just remove what was bought with it.

And those that sold them for gold or bought consumables or dlc areas and completed zones or race changed or faction changed. Dude its a mess and I doubt the can revert things.

BisDasBlutGefriert

There have been bugs in this game since I started playing in 2015. Some minor, some major. But still haven't been fixed in 5 years.....how long will it take them to comb through everyone's account and their purchases of the spent crowns that weren't theirs, if some were spent? weeks? Months? Years? And of those that got extra crowns and spent them, how many of those people will quit playing this game by the time everything gets sorted out?

This'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

RefLiberty

StolenEyes wrote: »

Maybe it’s because I’m older (52) and hopefully a little more wiser, but we must always be cautious in these situations. And I’m not spending a single Crown, even those I know are mine, until ZOS give us a definitive answer as to what they’re going to do.

Yeah because you know how things go.
Taking what is not yours - be ready to be slapped on the hand, or don't do it.

Aliyavana

nice

Syldras

I'm sure they can sort it out. Every transaction is protocolled and probably has details like a transaction/purchase number, maybe even method of payment included. So they'll see if someone has received crowns "out of nowhere". They don't even have to check it manually, I guess.

As for considering it an exploit and banning people for it: I hope they'll decide individually. While it's obvious if someone got 50k crowns and hastily spent all of them, it's not to clear if there were fraudulent intentions if someone got maybe 1k and spent those. Latter could happen by mistake. To be honest, I don't know exactly how many crowns I have, so I wouldn't notice if there's suddenly 1k more. So it's possible I'd just spend them normally, thinking they were mine, without realizing there's anything wrong.

Mettaricana

We heard an update on this soon as it happened can we get game fixes and reaponses this fast as well?

Pinja

GTA 5 had a vulnerability on launch where it's currency could be manipulated by hackers. There were servers where people were giving away billions. I wont tell you how that story ended, but plenty of people probably can tell you what happened.

StolenEyes

Aendruu wrote: »

I'm curious why ZOS only made the announcement on Twitter, when surely they must realise not everyone uses that platform? Why is there no statement here in the forum?

A good question. I can only think they want to ascertain exactly what caused the issue and how they intend to deal with it before making any announcements.

ixie

StolenEyes wrote: »

Aendruu wrote: »

I'm curious why ZOS only made the announcement on Twitter, when surely they must realise not everyone uses that platform? Why is there no statement here in the forum?

A good question. I can only think they want to ascertain exactly what caused the issue and how they intend to deal with it before making any announcements.

There is a post on the forums now

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/542409/xbox-na-eu-maintenance-august-22-6am-edt

kargen27

TineaCruris wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

...to uh, ya, this.....um....punishing players because ZOS made a deposit in their bank that shouldn't have happened. ZOS messes up, then punishes the players for the ZOS mistake.

wow. just wow.

Spending crowns or gold that the game auto deposits to you is definitely not an exploit. If I find a $20 on the ground while walking into the grocery store, it becomes mine unless someone is standing right there trying to pick it up because they just dropped it. ...and $20 real money is worth $20 more than 100k crowns.

..and on that note, I better log in and check my crown supply! This kind of thing never happens to me for some reason.

If a bank deposits money in your account by mistake you are not legally entitled to that money. If you withdraw it or otherwise spend it you can be charged with a crime. Even if you are not charged with a crime you will have to pay the money back. If you only transfer it to another account so you can collect interest on the money until they find the mistake that is also a crime.

gatekeeper13

When you see thousands of crowns in your account that you didnt buy and decide to spent them, then it's like stealing them. It common sense sth went wrong and ZOS didnt just give them to you.

Ofc every activity regarding these crowns has been recorded and I guess they can easily revert them.

sevomd69

Gilvoth wrote: »

CelestialSlayer wrote: »

but in monopoly when there is a bank error its in your favour....

here in the united states that is also the Law.
if your bank is telling you that you have 2 million and gives you a reciept saying that.
then you are not going to get arrested for spending it even tho you KNOW for a Fact that money was not there yesterday and its an error.
the Bank is at fault here - Not the Customer.

Uhhh...No...

Alienoutlaw

reminds me of the vAS days when everyone said they couldnt ban everyone...........they certainly gave it a good try. and they WILL ban in this case, crown coins are worth millions in revenue to ZOS and loosing 100 of 1000's of $'s in an error is not something they will sweep under the carpet

Raudgrani

How does a thing like this even happen? When did this happen, 21'st August? I didn't have any crowns at least. Or I didn't notice if I did.

Guess there's several sides to this, on one hand ZOS will probably deal out their medieval style "one-form-of-punishment" only, and ban people - as they always do when people consciously exploit things, or even do things "they should have understood wasn't right". I doubt they have the right or possibility to kind of grab people's cash.
They seem pretty bad at doing anything right to be perfectly honest, so I don't even know if they would be able to track every single occurrence of this glitch - but if you have touched them, I think you might be in a bad situation. Especially if you have gifted things (i.e. likely sold crowns), then this indeed grows out of proportion.