Bug some players received 60k-100k crowns

Syldras

Galwylin wrote: »

I compare to ZOS losing $100 on the street, someone finds and spends the money.

Which would be theft or larceny (in the USA and many other countries), because if you know whom the money belongs to, you have to return it.

StolenEyes

Grianasteri wrote: »

StolenEyes wrote: »

[snip] Its entirely possible Zos cannot disaggregate the purchased stuff from players accounts now that they have it. [snip] We shall see.

“Sour grapes”? Really? No, my conscience is clear. I didn’t spend those crowns because I didn’t know what the consequences would be. All of those that did clearly didn’t care enough about what could potentially happen. I didn’t want to even consider risking my account and getting banned from a game I’ve loved playing for four years, and admittedly have already spent a considerable amount of money on. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

SweepsAllClowns

StolenEyes wrote: »

I didn’t spend a single one of the 78,000 Crowns I was erroneously given. Others in my guilds went on gleeful spending sprees knowing the Crowns weren’t theirs to begin with, and mocked and derided those of us who were honest and reported the issue (I’m sure ZoS didn’t notice a massive surge in Crown Store spending *at all*). One person bought a Notable property and still has it as of today, and has so far only received an email from ZoS warning them about their breaking of the ESO TOS.

I will not be happy if players are allowed to keep the items they “bought” without recourse. All this will do is prove that being honest doesn’t pay and will only leave players resentful.

Here's once again an amazing example how morally rotten and disgusting this ESO community has become, being honest and not exploiting things whenever possible or just not cheat are seen as weakness and dumbness for many players. Often these players are quite arrogant and insulting just like the mocking players in your guild, some pointless warning means absolutely nothing for them, they probably laugh while enjoying spending their well earned crowns in the clown store. I see you play on Xbox EU, well I used to play there long ago too. I have many notable houses on that account, which I cannot use at all anymore, all the houses are bought with the crowns I've paid for myself, irony is real once again! In case you're curious why I don't play on Xbox EU anymore, here's a message I sent to a community manager some time ago:

"Hello, I have a huge problem and I don't think the support is taking my issue seriously enough at all, I thought I contact community management and try to get this solved before contacting Microsoft and putting my situation on other forums. My original Xbox EU cp 1575 account has been stuck since the Wrathstone download meaning I haven't been able to login even once for 17 and half months now, first I thought that surely it will get fixed soon, but now after multiple support tickets I'm quite sure it's gone forever and support won't fix it. I started playing on Xbox NA over a year ago and thought I'll play on both servers when EU account gets fixed, NA account is cp 1282 now. My ESO+ monthly membership ends after some days and I cannot continue paying when my EU account isn't fixed, this means I must sacrifice my NA account also since it's quite impossible to play without the craftbag. This means my ESO times are over after all these years and all my expensive houses on EU account are thrown to trash, obviously I won't just quit and walk away quietly. I created a new Xbox account months ago to test if I can login on EU server, it works fine and it's on the same console and connection so the problem clearly isn't on my end, EU account doesn't work with other console or connections either. Last week I created a new support ticket after the last one was over 10 months ago, I thought surely the working test account information would be a clear indicator the problem isn't on my end, but as expected again I got the basic port and troubleshoot list again and all my test account information was dodged just like it was totally irrelevant. When I once again explained the situation probably for a completely new person again, for example the part where I mentioned my account got completely stuck AFTER THE WRATHSTONE DOWNLOAD is somehow understood like I'M STUCK IN WRATHSTONE, I'm not sure if it was intentionally understood wrong, but it sure gets frustrating to explain this situation once again after over 17 months. My last ticket expired when there was some time limit to respond, it was about the ports even it should be clear the ports are fine when I can play on NA server with the same Xbox account and my test account on the same console works also on EU server. I need some help with this or then I must simply quit completely and start putting all the information on other forums. I can send my long message from the last ticket, there's much information about the whole long episode, I feel support didn't take it as seriously as they should have."

No respond of course as expected, I posted this already once in some other thread, but I think it fits quit nicely with this thread's theme. However if you're interested to see some more professional stuff, just hit me with a personal message and I'll happily provide some entertaining content.

SamanthaCarter

In France since preschool we have an expression : Donner c’est donner reprendre c’est voler (To give is to give to take back is to steal)

WastedJoker

Have people really been allowed to keep the items they obtained by using crowns they didn't purchase?

Syldras

SamanthaCarter wrote: »

In France since preschool we have an expression : Donner c’est donner reprendre c’est voler (To give is to give to take back is to steal)

Would you say the same in case of an bank error?

Grianasteri wrote: »

Indeed, & personally I do not think it meets any standard of basic decency or morality to employ gambling mechanics and deep psychological techniques to entice people, including kids, to purchase exorbitantly over priced pixels in the Crown store...

I'm not fond of loot boxes either, but it still doesn't justify spending crowns that are not yours.

Syldras

WastedJoker wrote: »

Have people really been allowed to keep the items they obtained by using crowns they didn't purchase?

No, they're still investigating.

VaranisArano

"ZOS shouldn't punish me for their mistake!"

"Oh, then would you like to explain how its ZOS' mistake that you broke the Code of Conduct?"

"Huh?"

"5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home."

"But its ZOS' fault the exploit exists! Its their mistake!"

"Would you care to explain how its ZOS' mistake that you broke the Terms of Service you agreed to? You know... In section 8, you agreed not to "promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax"

"I didn't make the glitch. ZOS did."

"Please reread. Upon discovering a bug or exploit, you are required to report them to ZOS. And, obviously, not abuse it. So...did you report it to ZOS like you agreed to?"

"No. I shouldn't have to. Its their fault, they should catch their own bugs.

"Yet you agreed to report bugs and exploits in order to play the game. And now you are whining when you might get punished for not doing something you agreed to do, and indeed for abusing the bug, something you explicitly agreed not to do. You refusing to uphold the agreement you made? That's 100% on you. Can't blame that one on ZOS."


(TLDR: ZOS is fully within their rights to punish people for breaking the TOS and COC they agreed to. Read what you agree to, people!)

StolenEyes

WastedJoker wrote: »

Have people really been allowed to keep the items they obtained by using crowns they didn't purchase?

So far, that would appear to be the case.

Syldras

StolenEyes wrote: »

WastedJoker wrote: »

Have people really been allowed to keep the items they obtained by using crowns they didn't purchase?

So far, that would appear to be the case.

Gina stated a few days ago that they're still investigating. Didn't sound like they'd just forget about it all.

Grianasteri

StolenEyes wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

StolenEyes wrote: »

[snip] Its entirely possible Zos cannot disaggregate the purchased stuff from players accounts now that they have it. [snip] We shall see.

“Sour grapes”? Really? No, my conscience is clear. I didn’t spend those crowns because I didn’t know what the consequences would be. All of those that did clearly didn’t care enough about what could potentially happen. I didn’t want to even consider risking my account and getting banned from a game I’ve loved playing for four years, and admittedly have already spent a considerable amount of money on. [snip]

Chill, you do you. But you made the point quite clearly that you did not want people who had used the crowns, to be able to keep what they spent them on. My comment is related to that, it does come across a little sour or perhaps another word would have been better.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

CORLEONE_TIME

Galwylin wrote: »

I compare to ZOS losing $100 on the street, someone finds and spends the money. Are we really expecting ZOS to prosecute these people who found it? Sure, it didn't belong to them but the person responsible for this loss is ZOS.

Like syldras already stated: that would be theft and even if we say you dont know the owner of the money you still cant keep the money because the law in that case requires you to bring it to the next police station and give it to them so that they can look for the owner and if they cant find one in a certain time frame you may get to keep the money...... So even if we go for this example the ppl still did wrong by spending it.....

Galwylin wrote: »

And I think you really need to calm down about real money equaling game money because both use internet traffic. I can take this imagined money from a bank and show you once I withdraw it. You cannot show me an actual ESO Crown. You can show me what you bought with it but at no point can you ever show what bought the item like you can with actual monetary instruments.....

First: i am a very calm person, in fact i can promise you that you would have some trouble to find a calmer person than me

Second: that is a very weak argument.... If your bank decides to internal change the name from euro or dollar or that ever to... Lets go with "jelly" in their system nothing would change for you because jelly would still equal you currency but you could not physicly show me the jelly money our cold you?

And not to forget that your "argument" did left out all the crypto currencys like bitcoin

Galwylin wrote: »

.....If we go down that route then what makes Monopoly money any different than a handwritten check? Bought "buy" things. Both have a value associated with it.

The fact that makes a difference is that sociaty or atleast a group of ppl has decideded to accept it as a currency and give it a value, if your town makes the decision to accept monopoly monay as a currency than it would get a real value because ppl believe it has one, that is how currencys and (money as a currency) work.

If your next supermarket says he dont want your weirdly colored paper shred or your smal round metal scrap pieces but he will accept dried squirrel *** you will stay hungry.... Or you go and hunt for a few squirrel ***....

Maybe this example is a bit extrem, but it still hits the nail on the head....

Galwylin wrote: »

As I said before, the person who needs to account for their misdeeds in all of this is ZOS. They created the problem and now want to shift responsibility for that creation.

That is also not true, they dont "shift responsibility for that creation" , they (hopefully) go and punich ppl what have a lack of morality or just are stupid as hell, in german we have a saying that goes like "stupidity doesnt protect for punishment" that is well fitting in this case.

Would i punish ppl that got 2k crowns and spend them? No i wouldnt, because 2k can easy fly under your radar and you could mistook it for your monthly eso + crowns

Would i punish ppl that spend 100k and more? Absolutely! Why? Because they did exactly know what they did.

Would i bann them? Not necessarily, i would block their access to crowns until they paid back the amount of crowns they used.

But i dont think zos has this option. We will have to wait and see what will happen.

Gilvoth

mine

Tandor

Galwylin wrote: »

CORLEONE_TIME wrote: »

Not True, The Victim is Zos because it is a loss in revenue, because ppl also sold those crowns to other players that had no idea about the bug.

Also what is this crap about "virtual money" i Keep reading here (Not just Form you)? First of all: what do you use to buy this "virtual money"?

And second: all money and the value of it is "virtual", what do you think Banks work with? Coins and bank notes? No they work with 1 and 0. The value of the money in your pocket is set by a 0 and 1 and "virtual money" in bank computers.

I compare to ZOS losing $100 on the street, someone finds and spends the money. Are we really expecting ZOS to prosecute these people who found it? Sure, it didn't belong to them but the person responsible for this loss is ZOS.

And I think you really need to calm down about real money equaling game money because both use internet traffic. I can take this imagined money from a bank and show you once I withdraw it. You cannot show me an actual ESO Crown. You can show me what you bought with it but at no point can you ever show what bought the item like you can with actual monetary instruments. If we go down that route then what makes Monopoly money any different than a handwritten check? Bought "buy" things. Both have a value associated with it.

As I said before, the person who needs to account for their misdeeds in all of this is ZOS. They created the problem and now want to shift responsibility for that creation.

ZOS wouldn't be prosecuting anyone, they would simply be saying that as a company running a private game under their rules they don't want cheats and exploiters playing it. Most of their customers would share that view, but clearly from this thread not everyone would.

maddiniiLuna

Tandor wrote: »

Galwylin wrote: »

CORLEONE_TIME wrote: »

Not True, The Victim is Zos because it is a loss in revenue, because ppl also sold those crowns to other players that had no idea about the bug.

Also what is this crap about "virtual money" i Keep reading here (Not just Form you)? First of all: what do you use to buy this "virtual money"?

And second: all money and the value of it is "virtual", what do you think Banks work with? Coins and bank notes? No they work with 1 and 0. The value of the money in your pocket is set by a 0 and 1 and "virtual money" in bank computers.

I compare to ZOS losing $100 on the street, someone finds and spends the money. Are we really expecting ZOS to prosecute these people who found it? Sure, it didn't belong to them but the person responsible for this loss is ZOS.

And I think you really need to calm down about real money equaling game money because both use internet traffic. I can take this imagined money from a bank and show you once I withdraw it. You cannot show me an actual ESO Crown. You can show me what you bought with it but at no point can you ever show what bought the item like you can with actual monetary instruments. If we go down that route then what makes Monopoly money any different than a handwritten check? Bought "buy" things. Both have a value associated with it.

As I said before, the person who needs to account for their misdeeds in all of this is ZOS. They created the problem and now want to shift responsibility for that creation.

ZOS wouldn't be prosecuting anyone, they would simply be saying that as a company running a private game under their rules they don't want cheats and exploiters playing it. Most of their customers would share that view, but clearly from this thread not everyone would.

ZOS would be saying, that they will look into this and increase performance, so they don't loose the 100 bucks in the first place, then make a patch that cause them to loose 300 bucks instead. That's how they roll recently.

In all honesty. I can understand them saying they don't want people to exploit this. Anybody who knew it was a bug and used it anyway should deserve a punishment for cheating. I'm worried about all the innocent victims who just thought they legitly won something, which is surprisingly many people, compared to the "abusers".

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I wonder how many were immediately sold for in game gold.

robwolf666

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

....who just thought they legitly won something...

This was my my first thought - but it closely followed by the second thought that I hadn't entered any competition, or even heard of one. So I immediately doubted that was why I'd got them.

Alienoutlaw

Deathly silent for almost week in here...........where are all the ppl laughing about their free crowns?

ItsJustHashtag

Because ZOS messed up they retroactively call it an exploit? Cringe

o_0

In my opinion, ZOS saying they are investigating just means they are trying to figure out the best way to identify who got illegitimate crowns, and how best to address this. However the longer time passes the more "corrections" would be needed and the less likely any real action will take place.

Unless each affected user was directly contacted and told not to spend these and it was due to an error, the more likely the crowns will be spent, or sold for gold. If i were to receive crowns for no explainable reason, yet don't look at the forums or twitter nor received a notice stating there was an error it would be hard to not eventually just spend them especially the longer that time passes.

I don't say any of this in defense of these actions, but this is just how it will be.

SeaGtGruff

o_0 wrote: »

In my opinion, ZOS saying they are investigating just means they are trying to figure out the best way to identify who got illegitimate crowns, and how best to address this.

In my opinion, if ZOS was able to reverse the illegitimate Crowns and identify which accounts received negative balances as a result of that reversal, then they don't need to try "to figure out the best way to identify who got illegitimate crowns," because they already know.

They might still be "trying to figure out ... how best to address" the issue, but that's not something we'll ever be privy to, since ZOS doesn't discuss disciplinary actions.

VaranisArano

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Because ZOS messed up they retroactively call it an exploit? Cringe

ZOS messing up by giving free Crowns is a glitch.

In the TOS and COC, players who discover a glitch or bug agree to report it and not use it.

Players spending free Crowns they know they didn't earn, get via a promotion, or buy are breaking the TOS they agreed to by NOT reporting the glitch, but instead abusing that glitch or "exploiting" the bug.

"But its ZOS' mistake!"

People keep saying that. And I keep wondering how its ZOS' fault that people didn't report bugs like this where common sense or Google would suffice to tell them that its a bug, not sudden unexplained generosity on ZOS' part. Sadly, some people seem to think "If in doubt, exploit it quick!"

Beardimus

WastedJoker wrote: »

Have people really been allowed to keep the items they obtained by using crowns they didn't purchase?

Yep. No action taken at all. @WastedJoker

Next time I'll be rinsing the crowns. Second time it's happened and ZOS setting a daft precident by not acting.

Beardimus

VaranisArano wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Because ZOS messed up they retroactively call it an exploit? Cringe

ZOS messing up by giving free Crowns is a glitch.

In the TOS and COC, players who discover a glitch or bug agree to report it and not use it.

Players spending free Crowns they know they didn't earn, get via a promotion, or buy are breaking the TOS they agreed to by NOT reporting the glitch, but instead abusing that glitch or "exploiting" the bug.

"But its ZOS' mistake!"

People keep saying that. And I keep wondering how its ZOS' fault that people didn't report bugs like this where common sense or Google would suffice to tell them that its a bug, not sudden unexplained generosity on ZOS' part. Sadly, some people seem to think "If in doubt, exploit it quick!"

@VaranisArano perfectly said my friend. Sadly this forum and Twitter seem to disagree, when I tried to say the same I got lynched.

The whole situation says alot about society these days and the rife levels of entitlement & justified wrong doing. It's astounding..

It appears people's moral codes are very different however if ZOS can't or won't act I guess it's literally only that, a question of morals as there are zero consequences. As the days pass I feel increasingly dumb for ignoring not burning through my 100k that was clearly an error to recieve.

SeaGtGruff

I've only got three more things to say about this aside from what I've already said:

(1) Just because ZOS hasn't (to our knowledge) done anything yet, that doesn't mean they aren't planning to.

(2) I find it interesting that some people consider Crowns to be "just pixels" with "no real-world value." It makes me wonder if they'd say the same thing about the characters they've created, the gear they've spent countless hours grinding for, the mats they've farmed, the items they've crafted, the achievements they've completed, etc., if ZOS were to suddenly delete them. If all those things are just pixels with no real-world value, then there's no reason for people to go ballistic when any of it goes poof.

(3) When most people get a sudden windfall that they know is theirs to keep, I think-- or hope, anyway-- that they would tend to hang onto it, or save at least some of it for future occasions when they might need it. But when some people get a sudden windfall that they know isn't theirs to keep, they spend every bit of it as quickly as possible before it's taken away from them.

Sylvermynx

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I've only got three more things to say about this aside from what I've already said:

(1) Just because ZOS hasn't (to our knowledge) done anything yet, that doesn't mean they aren't planning to.

(2) I find it interesting that some people consider Crowns to be "just pixels" with "no real-world value." It makes me wonder if they'd say the same thing about the characters they've created, the gear they've spent countless hours grinding for, the mats they've farmed, the items they've crafted, the achievements they've completed, etc., if ZOS were to suddenly delete them. If all those things are just pixels with no real-world value, then there's no reason for people to go ballistic when any of it goes poof.

(3) When most people get a sudden windfall that they know is theirs to keep, I think-- or hope, anyway-- that they would tend to hang onto it, or save at least some of it for future occasions when they might need it. But when some people get a sudden windfall that they know isn't theirs to keep, they spend every bit of it as quickly as possible before it's taken away from them.

(1) No possible argument with that statement.

(2) Crowns cost real world money - someone pays for them. Which is why I don't do the "gold for crown gift shuffle" personally. When I buy crowns, it's with MY OWN MONEY. And while I could go off on a tangent and get really obnoxious, I won't - because I'm damned tired of *self censored*.

(3) Yup. I've seen it in every MMO I've played. This one's no different. But yeah, the ability of people to admit they suck is akin to the current *again self censored*.

I think I'll go back to my own forum where anyone can say anything and not have an issue.

ItsJustHashtag

VaranisArano wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Because ZOS messed up they retroactively call it an exploit? Cringe

ZOS messing up by giving free Crowns is a glitch.

In the TOS and COC, players who discover a glitch or bug agree to report it and not use it.

Players spending free Crowns they know they didn't earn, get via a promotion, or buy are breaking the TOS they agreed to by NOT reporting the glitch, but instead abusing that glitch or "exploiting" the bug.

"But its ZOS' mistake!"

People keep saying that. And I keep wondering how its ZOS' fault that people didn't report bugs like this where common sense or Google would suffice to tell them that its a bug, not sudden unexplained generosity on ZOS' part. Sadly, some people seem to think "If in doubt, exploit it quick!"

Logging in for the first time and seeing 60-100k crowns in your inventory isn’t exploiting a glitch. ZOS made a mistake and something bugged out. Saying those who spent The crowns are exploiting and could be banned because of a ZOS mistake is a joke and is laughable.

VaranisArano

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Because ZOS messed up they retroactively call it an exploit? Cringe

ZOS messing up by giving free Crowns is a glitch.

In the TOS and COC, players who discover a glitch or bug agree to report it and not use it.

Players spending free Crowns they know they didn't earn, get via a promotion, or buy are breaking the TOS they agreed to by NOT reporting the glitch, but instead abusing that glitch or "exploiting" the bug.

"But its ZOS' mistake!"

People keep saying that. And I keep wondering how its ZOS' fault that people didn't report bugs like this where common sense or Google would suffice to tell them that its a bug, not sudden unexplained generosity on ZOS' part. Sadly, some people seem to think "If in doubt, exploit it quick!"

Logging in for the first time and seeing 60-100k crowns in your inventory isn’t exploiting a glitch. ZOS made a mistake and something bugged out. Saying those who spent The crowns are exploiting and could be banned because of a ZOS mistake is a joke and is laughable.

Logging in and seeing that ZOS made a mistake and give you (general you, here, not you in particular, unless you spent the glitches crowns) thousands of crowns you didn't buy, earn, or have gifted via promotion is discovering a glitch.

What should you do from there?

Well, since you agreed to the TOS and Code of Conduct, naturally you report the glitch to ZOS and don't touch the Crowns, right?

If you do anything else, you've broken the TOS and Code of Conduct already. ZOS typically doesn't take action against people who fail to report AND don't use the glitch, but reporting is still required by the TOS/COC.

If you spend the Crowns, though, you've not only broken the TOS and COC by not reporting a glitch you obviously saw, but you've broken it again by exploiting that glitch to get yourself Crown Store items with crowns you neither bought, earned, nor received through a promotion.

See a glitch? Report it. Don't use it. Great, you followed the TOS and COC you agreed to so you could play the game.

See a glitch, don't report it, keep using it, especially when it benefits you? That's clearly and obviously against the TOS and COC at every step after you saw the glitch. While ZOS doesn't always punish players who rush to use glitches (free necromancers, free Greymoor, nearly free Coldharbor home, onyx Indrik), they are well within their rights to do so, and have in the past (guild bidding gold fiasco, 1 million exp Imperial City, vAS snipe cheese, etc.)


"But its ZOS' mistake!"

The glitch is ZOS' mistake.
You choosing to not report the glitch, then spend the crowns is not ZOS' mistake. That's on you. And yes, ZOS can, has, and should hold such people accountable for breaking the TOS/COC they agreed to.

robwolf666

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Because ZOS messed up they retroactively call it an exploit? Cringe

If you take advantage of a bug to your own advantage - exploit.
It's clear to anyone with half a brain suddenly receiving a windfall of Crowns would be an error. You exploited that if you then spent them.