Bug some players received 60k-100k crowns

Sergykid

it's either ban or complete character or account rollback. They can't retake the purchases on all cases. What if someone bought a class and started investing gold in it, or used an exp boost and started leveling?

Jaavaa

Permaban for this crown bug? If zos this will do, the biggest *** for this dying game is incoming.

Sarannah

Since I removed my previous post, may I offer the following suggestion: Please add a log to the crownstore, so we can keep track of our crowns. Right now it is impossible for players to know if their crownbalance is off. Something along the lines of:

"23-08-2020 11:52 Player has 11520 crowns. Player bought flying monkey pet for 2000 crowns, new crownbalance after purchase: 9520 crowns."

This way we can see the old crown balance, the new crown balance, and what we have bought for how much.

Syldras

I've read "half the server" several times in this thread. How many people really were affected? Somehow I don't believe that it happened to so many - and that most of them would be so careless just to spend the crowns without thinking further.

idk

Sergykid wrote: »

it's either ban or complete character or account rollback. They can't retake the purchases on all cases. What if someone bought a class and started investing gold in it, or used an exp boost and started leveling?

That is their personal problem if they purchased a class with crowns that were not theirs. I expect these people are smart enough to realize that it was a mistake and the crowns would be taken back. They just tried to game the system.

If this happened in the real world in their bank accounts, and this type of thing does happen, and they spent the money charges are often filed such as theft of property and receipt of stolen goods since sometimes these people help out their friends and family, or they think they are helping.

Hiruda

Syldras wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Technically it is real money since you have to buy them before using them in the store.

I agree. It's strange some people don't seem to realize that.

Astrid wrote: »

You don’t have to sit and argue morality and right from wrong between yourselves.

I don't care for morals, I'm just amazed how naive many people seem to be. Yes, there had been gifts by ZOS before, but crowns worth several hundreds of dollars/euro/pounds/whatever?! That actually should make you wonder what's going on and stay cautious instead of assuming everything's fine and you may spend it all.

You know, they can just press one button and credit millions of crown into your account
No, it's not worth anything, it has absolutely no real value

Sylvermynx

Sarannah wrote: »

Since I removed my previous post, may I offer the following suggestion: Please add a log to the crownstore, so we can keep track of our crowns. Right now it is impossible for players to know if their crownbalance is off. Something along the lines of:

"23-08-2020 11:52 Player has 11520 crowns. Player bought flying monkey pet for 2000 crowns, new crownbalance after purchase: 9520 crowns."

This way we can see the old crown balance, the new crown balance, and what we have bought for how much.

Eh, I keep a running total for both accounts on the spreadsheets for same. I don't need ZOS to hold my hand.

idk

Hiruda wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Technically it is real money since you have to buy them before using them in the store.

I agree. It's strange some people don't seem to realize that.

Astrid wrote: »

You don’t have to sit and argue morality and right from wrong between yourselves.

I don't care for morals, I'm just amazed how naive many people seem to be. Yes, there had been gifts by ZOS before, but crowns worth several hundreds of dollars/euro/pounds/whatever?! That actually should make you wonder what's going on and stay cautious instead of assuming everything's fine and you may spend it all.

You know, they can just press one button and credit millions of crown into your account
No, it's not worth anything, it has absolutely no real value

Meh. The fact is they do have a cost. They do not come for free and any rational person would realize the windfall was not intended just as if a few hundred thousand dollars/euros were accidently deposited into their bank account. BTW, those that spend accidental deposits into their bank account find themselves with criminal charges. So yes, society does consider this to be a common sense issue.

FlopsyPrince

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

it would be fairly easy to write a search string to flag high crown purchases or unusual gold movement, ppl know they didnt buy them and if they a long time ESO+ player would also know you get nothing for free in this game, so any ban's coming are well deserved

Not necessarily. I don't pay enough attention so I could easily spend that many crowns if I forgot about how many I had.

I think I am running at around 90K now after buying 2 of the top packs in the last sale. I don't need them now, but I would rather buy them cheaper.

I would be VERY annoyed if I got banned because I used some to get a house I didn't need and didn't realize I got some bonus ones!

This bug will be/was quickly fixed though since I helped the player. That is how these things work.

Sarannah

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Since I removed my previous post, may I offer the following suggestion: Please add a log to the crownstore, so we can keep track of our crowns. Right now it is impossible for players to know if their crownbalance is off. Something along the lines of:

"23-08-2020 11:52 Player has 11520 crowns. Player bought flying monkey pet for 2000 crowns, new crownbalance after purchase: 9520 crowns."

This way we can see the old crown balance, the new crown balance, and what we have bought for how much.

Eh, I keep a running total for both accounts on the spreadsheets for same. I don't need ZOS to hold my hand.

There is a reason why banks always allow you to view your bankaccount, and why you are given bankstatements. Has nothing to do with holding hands, it is for clarification and proof.

The player has a crownbalance, the player should be able to see what goes on with it. And how much the balance should be.

Old_Foggy

I'd treat this as the same way any money paid into your bank account by mistake you can't keep. It might be tempting to spend it but it would be the same as stealing it.

Legally, if a sum of money is accidentally paid into your bank or savings account and you know it doesn't belong to you, then you must pay it back.
Keeping any money wrongly credited to your account could lead to you being charged with retaining wrongful credit' under the Theft Act 1968 UK law. I had this happen a few years back when a tax rebate was paid into my account twice.

CORLEONE_TIME

some Players got the standard email about cheating and such and now there are rumors that they get to keep the Stuff They bought.......

I know 3 ppl that spend over 200k crowns (One spend 290k)...... dont know how to feel about that........

Wildberryjack

So they get to keep the crowns and what they bought with them? Oh hell no! Then ZOS better give everyone else 100k crowns! This is not acceptable at all, what in the world made them think it would be.

furiouslog

Most of the other games with purchased currency offer a detailed historical log of currency purchases and spending going back at least a year. Not sure why ZOS can't get this going, but it would certainly mitigate mistakes like this if there were some consumer transparency.

White wabbit

If they do get to keep there stuff then I won’t spend other dime on thus game

CORLEONE_TIME

Wildberryjack wrote: »

So they get to keep the crowns and what they bought with them? Oh hell no! Then ZOS better give everyone else 100k crowns! This is not acceptable at all, what in the world made them think it would be.

The crowns are gone, and if you spend more than you had before the bug they took them too..... But if you had lets say 20k before but spend 200k They just took your 20k.... The same for ppl that auf 2k and spend 3k, it just got zeroed.....

But the Stuff is not taken back and nobody got banned yet so ppl start von talk......

Syldras

CORLEONE_TIME wrote: »

The crowns are gone, and if you spend more than you had before the bug they took them too..... But if you had lets say 20k before but spend 200k They just took your 20k.... The same for ppl that auf 2k and spend 3k, it just got zeroed.....
But the Stuff is not taken back and nobody got banned yet so ppl start von talk......

Yet. That's the point. There hasn't been actions yet. But I guess there will be. It just takes time.

Tandor

Hiruda wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Technically it is real money since you have to buy them before using them in the store.

I agree. It's strange some people don't seem to realize that.

Astrid wrote: »

You don’t have to sit and argue morality and right from wrong between yourselves.

I don't care for morals, I'm just amazed how naive many people seem to be. Yes, there had been gifts by ZOS before, but crowns worth several hundreds of dollars/euro/pounds/whatever?! That actually should make you wonder what's going on and stay cautious instead of assuming everything's fine and you may spend it all.

You know, they can just press one button and credit millions of crown into your account
No, it's not worth anything, it has absolutely no real value

It's real life value is in the opportunity cost. If you buy 25,000 crowns every quarter and suddenly you find you have 100,000 crowns in your account you didn't know about, then either you suspect a bug, submit a ticket and don't spend them, or you keep quiet and if it isn't detected you don't need to buy any more crowns for the next year - in which case there is a real loss of revenue. I'm not excusing the bug, although I suspect it hasn't affected very many players discipline-wise, but I don't accept the argument that it's just virtual currency with no real life financial cost to the company.

SeaGtGruff

Syldras wrote: »

CORLEONE_TIME wrote: »

The crowns are gone, and if you spend more than you had before the bug they took them too..... But if you had lets say 20k before but spend 200k They just took your 20k.... The same for ppl that auf 2k and spend 3k, it just got zeroed.....
But the Stuff is not taken back and nobody got banned yet so ppl start von talk......

Yet. That's the point. There hasn't been actions yet. But I guess there will be. It just takes time.

Right. IIRC when Gina(?) posted about this, she mentioned that the Crowns would be deducted from the accounts first, and any account receiving a negative balance would be flagged and set to a zero balance-- then, the following week, a review of the flagged accounts would begin; or something like that.

AFAIK there's been no word on what sort(s) of disciplinary action(s) will be taken, and probably never will be; but it seems reasonable to suppose that the severity of the disciplinary action might vary in accordance with the severity of the infraction (i.e., the size of the negative balance).

barney2525

This sounds like the same type of issue as a bank error. If bank drops 100K into your account and you spend it you are responsible for paying it back. You don't get to keep it just because they made a mistake.

Grianasteri

Its hilarious seeing the different attitudes to this.

If I were to unexpectedly discover a shed load of crowns in my account, I'm pretty sure I would spend it.

If Zos then went on to remove any items etc purchased with these crowns, so be it. But banning paying customers?... because YOU made a mistake, Zos. That is the polar opposite of how to deal with this, from a customer service perspective.

Frankly the Crown store is an extortionate rip of in almost everything it sells, so I dont begrudge folk getting some free stuff. Perhaps if Zos lowered their prices for purchasing pixels and stopped utilising gambling mechanics, a lot more people would buy stuff from the Crown store.

StolenEyes

I didn’t spend a single one of the 78,000 Crowns I was erroneously given. Others in my guilds went on gleeful spending sprees knowing the Crowns weren’t theirs to begin with, and mocked and derided those of us who were honest and reported the issue (I’m sure ZoS didn’t notice a massive surge in Crown Store spending *at all*). One person bought a Notable property and still has it as of today, and has so far only received an email from ZoS warning them about their breaking of the ESO TOS.

I will not be happy if players are allowed to keep the items they “bought” without recourse. All this will do is prove that being honest doesn’t pay and will only leave players resentful.

Galwylin

Well, its weird to just spend something that shows up for no reason. But this is virtual money. I'd just let it go. Maybe they would just throw the same out to everyone or something as a way of saying, we screwed up here's some crowns to apologize for allowing this bug in. In a few cases it seems they let a bug in and now folks are going to pay for it. Its time they reversed that and started accepting responsibility. Saying this is an exploit is just passing the buck. Its made up money. A completely victimless crime.

gronoxvx

You cant compare this the fraud.

A game digital currency (that yes can be traded for real money OR IN GAME GOLD) and people are calling for the ban hammer to smite those who spent the additional crowns that zos's own system allocated???

ZOS SCREWED THIS UP THEMSELVES. IT WASNT ANYONE "HACKING" OR GLITCHING LIKE A VMOL SKIN WHEN YOU COULD SNIPE OR LIGHT ATTACK FROM AN INVISIBLE PLATFORM.

If it was hacking, then yes ban them. But it wasnt by zos's own admissions.

What any normal company would do in this instance is count their losses, investigate how it happened and implement processes and procedures to make sure it doesnt happen again. Not flat out banning people for what is zos error.

Do better zos.

CORLEONE_TIME

Galwylin wrote: »

Well, its weird to just spend something that shows up for no reason. But this is virtual money. I'd just let it go. Maybe they would just throw the same out to everyone or something as a way of saying, we screwed up here's some crowns to apologize for allowing this bug in. In a few cases it seems they let a bug in and now folks are going to pay for it. Its time they reversed that and started accepting responsibility. Saying this is an exploit is just passing the buck. Its made up money. A completely victimless crime.

Not True, The Victim is Zos because it is a loss in revenue, because ppl also sold those crowns to other players that had no idea about the bug.

Also what is this crap about "virtual money" i Keep reading here (Not just Form you)? First of all: what do you use to buy this "virtual money"?

And second: all money and the value of it is "virtual", what do you think Banks work with? Coins and bank notes? No they work with 1 and 0. The value of the money in your pocket is set by a 0 and 1 and "virtual money" in bank computers.

CORLEONE_TIME

But i guess some ppl dont want to see it like this so......

Syldras

Galwylin wrote: »

Maybe they would just throw the same out to everyone or something as a way of saying, we screwed up here's some crowns to apologize for allowing this bug in.

If they gave everyone 100.000 crowns now (What's that in real money? 600 Euro I think?), they'd not sell a single crown anymore within the next few years.

Grianasteri

StolenEyes wrote: »

I didn’t spend a single one of the 78,000 Crowns I was erroneously given. Others in my guilds went on gleeful spending sprees knowing the Crowns weren’t theirs to begin with, and mocked and derided those of us who were honest and reported the issue (I’m sure ZoS didn’t notice a massive surge in Crown Store spending *at all*). One person bought a Notable property and still has it as of today, and has so far only received an email from ZoS warning them about their breaking of the ESO TOS.

I will not be happy if players are allowed to keep the items they “bought” without recourse. All this will do is prove that being honest doesn’t pay and will only leave players resentful.

[snip] Its entirely possible Zos cannot disaggregate the purchased stuff from players accounts now that they have it. [snip] We shall see.

[Edited to remove Baiting and Bashing]

Rex-Umbra

Did not get bug myself but d

Gilvoth wrote: »

CelestialSlayer wrote: »

but in monopoly when there is a bank error its in your favour....

here in the united states that is also the Law.
if your bank is telling you that you have 2 million and gives you a reciept saying that.
then you are not going to get arrested for spending it even tho you KNOW for a Fact that money was not there yesterday and its an error.
the Bank is at fault here - Not the Customer.

I know that is not true.

Galwylin

CORLEONE_TIME wrote: »

Not True, The Victim is Zos because it is a loss in revenue, because ppl also sold those crowns to other players that had no idea about the bug.

Also what is this crap about "virtual money" i Keep reading here (Not just Form you)? First of all: what do you use to buy this "virtual money"?

And second: all money and the value of it is "virtual", what do you think Banks work with? Coins and bank notes? No they work with 1 and 0. The value of the money in your pocket is set by a 0 and 1 and "virtual money" in bank computers.

I compare to ZOS losing $100 on the street, someone finds and spends the money. Are we really expecting ZOS to prosecute these people who found it? Sure, it didn't belong to them but the person responsible for this loss is ZOS.

And I think you really need to calm down about real money equaling game money because both use internet traffic. I can take this imagined money from a bank and show you once I withdraw it. You cannot show me an actual ESO Crown. You can show me what you bought with it but at no point can you ever show what bought the item like you can with actual monetary instruments. If we go down that route then what makes Monopoly money any different than a handwritten check? Bought "buy" things. Both have a value associated with it.

As I said before, the person who needs to account for their misdeeds in all of this is ZOS. They created the problem and now want to shift responsibility for that creation.