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The new 'improved' stranglers

  • Erraln
    Erraln
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    Y'know what they forgot? Dodge duration should go down by 50% as well, now, since WD is included.

    No need for only the mages to suffer, right?
  • Sharpshootet2342
    Idea for next iteration:

    Thrassian Stranglers: Added a chance to get dreugh wax upon deconstructing this item.

    Cuz, you know, thats the best we can do with it now right?

    Right
  • Sharpshootet2342
    No point in using them. I swear they never listen to any feedback. PTS week 1: people said it was too heavy of a nerf. PTS week 2: people said it's still too much of a nerf. PTS week 3: they nerf it further?!

    Why are you nerfing all the stuff you used to sell the chapter ZOS???

    Because they already got the money from us for buying the chapter.
    Edited by ZOS_TrishM on July 28, 2020 4:13PM
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Eleguak wrote: »
    Basically, yeah. I can't think of a single way to work this set into any build with this.

    Just to run it you'd haveta give up the classic 5/5/2 item set ratio from before mythic items (not including a backbared weapon set), and even at max stacks it's... not worth running for that...? I mean, you can't even allocate your stat points into health to lowkey make up the cost so you won't be one shot as a dps (I know some dps really skirt the line of min health even after food buffs).

    So is this just a tanking set now, so tanks can do some more damage, after speccing mostly into health/armor? Or... what?

    I mean the health thing MIGHT work with a bigger weapon/spell damage pay out, but as it is, this isn't worth anything to even use. Just run a full item set instead of using a mythic item set that I thought were supposed to mix up build variety.

    Does it proc Pariah? It could be interesting if it does it
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Erraln
    Erraln
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Eleguak wrote: »
    Basically, yeah. I can't think of a single way to work this set into any build with this.

    Just to run it you'd haveta give up the classic 5/5/2 item set ratio from before mythic items (not including a backbared weapon set), and even at max stacks it's... not worth running for that...? I mean, you can't even allocate your stat points into health to lowkey make up the cost so you won't be one shot as a dps (I know some dps really skirt the line of min health even after food buffs).

    So is this just a tanking set now, so tanks can do some more damage, after speccing mostly into health/armor? Or... what?

    I mean the health thing MIGHT work with a bigger weapon/spell damage pay out, but as it is, this isn't worth anything to even use. Just run a full item set instead of using a mythic item set that I thought were supposed to mix up build variety.

    Does it proc Pariah? It could be interesting if it does it

    Lol, now there's a thought... Let me go check.

    EDIT: Nope, the buff redefines what '100%' health is rather than leave you permanently at a less-than-full value. And Pariah works off of % Value Below 100, so it won't notice a difference.
    Edited by Erraln on July 27, 2020 11:02PM
  • Ajaks
    Ajaks
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    Hm... the 6 k health reduction is a bit excessive indeed. If it was my decision to make, I'd probably drop it to around 3 k HP and 4,2 k defenses. That being said, the item now kinda resembles to Malacath's ring but with the ability to preserve your critical damage. I'll try to work around the "curse" on my imperial with heavy armor and some health/stamina food but it will be pretty hard to make it viable.
  • mairwen85
    mairwen85
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    50 stacks max @ 100 wd/sd each.
    Per stack penalty:
    2% increase in damage received
    2% increase in ability cost

    Max sd/wd 5000, but double the amount of incoming damage, double cost on abilities.

    Is that so hard?
    Edited by mairwen85 on July 27, 2020 11:31PM
    Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?

    ~ Edgar Allan Poe
  • Myrddin1357
    Myrddin1357
    ✭✭
    Ajaks wrote: »
    Hm... the 6 k health reduction is a bit excessive indeed. If it was my decision to make, I'd probably drop it to around 3 k HP and 4,2 k defenses. That being said, the item now kinda resembles to Malacath's ring but with the ability to preserve your critical damage. I'll try to work around the "curse" on my imperial with heavy armor and some health/stamina food but it will be pretty hard to make it viable.

    Even if you remove the health penalty completely, this set is mostly useless as it stands. You have to kill 50 enemies to get to 850 spell/wep damage. Any sort of load screen or dying resets the stacks. So it will be useless in dungeons and trials as you will never get anywhere close to full buff (unless you are the only one wearing it and everyone agrees to let you kill everything). Useless in vma as you will have less damage that julianos for the majority of the time as it resets for each stage.

    Only use i can think of is to kill stuff on the overland map and then go ham with all the awesome 850 power on a hapless world boss. I doubt many would bother.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    ✭✭
    Erraln wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Eleguak wrote: »
    Basically, yeah. I can't think of a single way to work this set into any build with this.

    Just to run it you'd haveta give up the classic 5/5/2 item set ratio from before mythic items (not including a backbared weapon set), and even at max stacks it's... not worth running for that...? I mean, you can't even allocate your stat points into health to lowkey make up the cost so you won't be one shot as a dps (I know some dps really skirt the line of min health even after food buffs).

    So is this just a tanking set now, so tanks can do some more damage, after speccing mostly into health/armor? Or... what?

    I mean the health thing MIGHT work with a bigger weapon/spell damage pay out, but as it is, this isn't worth anything to even use. Just run a full item set instead of using a mythic item set that I thought were supposed to mix up build variety.

    Does it proc Pariah? It could be interesting if it does it

    Lol, now there's a thought... Let me go check.

    EDIT: Nope, the buff redefines what '100%' health is rather than leave you permanently at a less-than-full value. And Pariah works off of % Value Below 100, so it won't notice a difference.

    Well, bad news, it can't even be paired with some other options.

    maybe if the rework the health status to be a reduction, like radiation dmg on Fallout 4 and then making it able to proc sets that work on missing health it could be an option, like Pariah, Undaunted Bastion, or even Orgnum's scales and Shali
    Edited by Xvorg on July 27, 2020 11:40PM
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Kolzki
    Kolzki
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    Erraln wrote: »
    GbFYe.jpg

    Dat health doe

    How big are your shields with that health pool? :D
  • StamPlar_1976
    StamPlar_1976
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    Erraln wrote: »
    GbFYe.jpg

    Dat health doe

    Hahaha!!! I expected nothing less :D:D:D
  • katorga
    katorga
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    I better get a Dreugh Wax when I decon them.....
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    Maybe 450 sd wd while 50 stakcs next week?
  • peacenote
    peacenote
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    This must be some kind of sick joke, all they needed to do was tone down the damage per stack and add weapon damage. I just don't understand their mindset. If they don't want people to use the item then just remove it from the game. The Antiquities system would be just another source of furnishings

    I don't even think they needed to add weapon damage. They could have made a duplicate item with weapon instead of spell damage as another mythic to obtain.

    Honestly the piece was barely OP. The whole "my stacks!" thing because so cliche after a week and people quickly adapted to using it for certain content and ditching it for others. It was kind of nice to see DPS carrying different sets for different use cases. Slightly reducing the damage would likely have been fine.

    I am so disappointed since I never even had enough time to obtain them "in their heyday" and now they just aren't worth it. ZOS, not EVERYONE went out and spent time grinding all the mythic pieces in the first 24 hours of release...
  • halucin0g3n
    halucin0g3n
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    I just spent HOURS to level up antiquity skill lines, fishing, Mage Guild Story line to get this item and now I find out it's going to be full trash. What a waste of time.. I guess I should've known.
  • ZOS_TrishM
    ZOS_TrishM
    admin
    Greetings,

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  • MJallday
    MJallday
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    I’m sorry youve has to do that but If nothing else , this proves the fact that this unpopular change has had a negative impact

    Right now, if this change goes live, literally no one will be wearing those gloves
  • ketsparrowhawk
    ketsparrowhawk
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    50 stacks is way too much. I think this alone will turn almost everyone off from this item. Seems only useful in IC.. maybe. 20 stacks seemed good. I wouldn't mind even fewer stacks with a more drastic ramp-up but smaller total reward/penalty.

    What if the "curse" was tied to damage done? For each stack, a % of the damage you deal is dealt to yourself? Then you don't have to worry about damage taken, shield strength, max health, etc.. it discourages AOE usage, and would likely limit the number of people using it trials so as to not over-tax the healers.

    850 is not enough damage. What's cool about this item is that it grants an INSANE amount of damage.. "but at what cost???" The amount of damage being offered now isn't nearly enticing enough. There is NO WAY I'm gonna bust my rear to get these leads for +850 damage that I need 50 killing blows to get, and that expire every time I port somewhere or die or sneeze or whatever, AND -6000 hp. For such a hassle, I'm gonna need WAY MORE than 850 damage to be bothered to bother.

    Recap:
    - Fewer stacks
    - More damage
    - Make the "curse" tied to damage done
  • Myrddin1357
    Myrddin1357
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    50 stacks is way too much. I think this alone will turn almost everyone off from this item. Seems only useful in IC.. maybe. 20 stacks seemed good. I wouldn't mind even fewer stacks with a more drastic ramp-up but smaller total reward/penalty.

    What if the "curse" was tied to damage done? For each stack, a % of the damage you deal is dealt to yourself? Then you don't have to worry about damage taken, shield strength, max health, etc.. it discourages AOE usage, and would likely limit the number of people using it trials so as to not over-tax the healers.

    850 is not enough damage. What's cool about this item is that it grants an INSANE amount of damage.. "but at what cost???" The amount of damage being offered now isn't nearly enticing enough. There is NO WAY I'm gonna bust my rear to get these leads for +850 damage that I need 50 killing blows to get, and that expire every time I port somewhere or die or sneeze or whatever, AND -6000 hp. For such a hassle, I'm gonna need WAY MORE than 850 damage to be bothered to bother.

    Recap:
    - Fewer stacks
    - More damage
    - Make the "curse" tied to damage done

    The 50 stacks is probably there cos they really don't want anyone using this in a trial (or dungeons). I think if they upped the damage to 1500 total (30 per stack, still 50 stacks) at least it won't be a joke of item. Dying should not reset the stacks. Loading to a dungeon or trial should.
  • josiahva
    josiahva
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    The 50 stacks is probably there cos they really don't want anyone using this.

    There. Fixed it for you. What is the point of a set you can't use in trials or dungeons exactly?
  • seerevaloc
    seerevaloc
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    newtinmpls wrote: »
    This is making it more and more apparent that thrassians were a chapter seller

    That is a.....sadly possibly insightful thought.

    I wish you were wrong.

    #1 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6887573/#Comment_6887573
    #2 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6887430/#Comment_6887430
    Edited by seerevaloc on July 28, 2020 10:06PM
  • Finedaible
    Finedaible
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    seerevaloc wrote: »
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    This is making it more and more apparent that thrassians were a chapter seller

    That is a.....sadly possibly insightful thought.

    I wish you were wrong.

    #1 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6887573/#Comment_6887573
    #2 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6887430/#Comment_6887430

    I tried to warn people that the new mythics were literally flying in the face of Zo$'s balancing acts and that Antiquities would be a flop, but everyone who didn't heed the signs and bought Greymoor is starting to regret it now. Even so, I couldn't predict they would go so low as to nerf New Moon Acolyte as well. I guess the lesson we should all take away from this is, never underestimate greed.
  • HalfDragoness
    HalfDragoness
    Soul Shriven
    I realy enjoy playing characters with the stranglers, as they are currently They're really fun for solo play and they're enjoyable in vet dungeons. Personally I'd just never wear them in a trial because I'd hate to be a liability. However I udnerstand that there are a lot of people who would use them in trials to maximise their damage.

    My initial reaction to their current modifications is that when the debuffs become fixed numbers rather than percentages (and with the addition of weapon damage) this vastly favours medium armor stamina builds over magicka light armor builds, and this feels unfair. If the stranglers will now benefit stamina and magicka dps, the debuffs should not favour one build over the other.

    If I understand correctly, the devs don't want stranglers to become essential to meta damage builds. IIf this is the case then the stranglers should have debuffs against group play but they should still be fun for solo content and useable in dungeons.

    Make Thrassians Penalise an Entire Group

    Suggestion One
    What I would like to suggest it that instead of all the penalty falling on the wearer, the penalty could be more like the weapon overload mechanic in Cloudrest, where, if you have multiple people in the same group within 50ft of each other who are wearing the stranglers all wearers take damage per second based on how many stacks of the sloads call they have.
    Damage would be calculated so that in a trial group it's safest to have only one player wearing the stranglers, but you can have a maximum of two, but this will kep your healers very occupied especially if both players have maximum stacks.

    Suggestion Two
    Or it could be that everyone in the same group as someone wearing stranglers takes damage per second based on the amount of sloads call stacks, which can be healed in veteran trial content if you have 4-6 players wearing stranglers but that all group memebers (including those not wearing them) will take damage x the total amount of sloads call stacks in the group.
    e.g. 1 sloads call stack = 10 damage per second, per group memeber
    One player wearing stranglers: At 50 sloads call stacks all group members take 500 damage per second
    Two players: With both at 50 stacks all group members take 1000 damage per second
    Six players: With all at 50 stacks all group members take 3000 damage per second (unfeasable in most veteran content)

    With this penality coordinated trial teams could still have two players wearing stranglers but could organize themselves so that either, both players try to hover around having 25 stacks, or that they alternate who has max stacks. E.g. P1 wear them from the start, at around 20 -25 stacks P2 puts theirs on. P1 gets to 50 stacks, then crouches to cleanse themselves. P2 is at 25 stacks, P1 is at 0, when P2 gets to 50 stacks they crouch to cleanse themselves, P1 is at 25 stacks again, and so on...

    Suggestion Three
    The stranglers have some other kind of debuff that stacks with itself so that the more players in a group wearing the stranglers the worse the debuff will be.E.g.
    • Wearing the stranglers lowers all group mmebers health by 500. (two or more players wearing stranglers would counter the Ebon Armory buff)
    • Wearing the stranglers causes all group memebers to recieve 0.25% less healing per stack of sloads call. (One player with max stacks means whoe group takes 12.5% less healing. Four players with max stacks means whole group takes 50% less healing)
    • Wearing the stranglers causes unstable magic energy in a 2-15ft circle around you. This damages group members with unblockable oblivion damage, both the damage and the circle size increase with more stacks. If multiple players in the group are wearing the stranglers and their circles overlap this multiples the damage.

    You get the idea...

  • Anyron
    Anyron
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    Thrassian Stranglers
    With Major Sorcery and Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, and arcane ( although I'd probably use bloodthirsty ) on a MagDK

    isdlvbraty9x.png

    So if you have 50 stacks which is hard as hell in trial, but let's just assume real quick you do.
    • Sacrifice a 5 piece or monster set ( here I sacrificed a monster set )
    • Lose ~6,000 Magicka
    • Lose around 1,000 Health and 3.53 crit ( assuming monster set route ) or around 2,000 Health
    • Gain 1,000 spell damage (slightly more if templar in group )

    So you net gain around 400 spell damage.. which is about equal to a monster set or a 5 piece bonus.. so you're gaining.. Nothing :) and losing health.

    Edit: Also less sustain ( lesser magicka pool ) and lost damage while building stacks assuming you can.

    Yeah.. Now imagine that you are also using -50% shield on top of that reduced health.. Good luck with that
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
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    Anyron wrote: »
    Thrassian Stranglers
    With Major Sorcery and Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, and arcane ( although I'd probably use bloodthirsty ) on a MagDK

    isdlvbraty9x.png

    So if you have 50 stacks which is hard as hell in trial, but let's just assume real quick you do.
    • Sacrifice a 5 piece or monster set ( here I sacrificed a monster set )
    • Lose ~6,000 Magicka
    • Lose around 1,000 Health and 3.53 crit ( assuming monster set route ) or around 2,000 Health
    • Gain 1,000 spell damage (slightly more if templar in group )

    So you net gain around 400 spell damage.. which is about equal to a monster set or a 5 piece bonus.. so you're gaining.. Nothing :) and losing health.

    Edit: Also less sustain ( lesser magicka pool ) and lost damage while building stacks assuming you can.

    Yeah.. Now imagine that you are also using -50% shield on top of that reduced health.. Good luck with that

    I'm use to that because I have to spell sym to sustain, at least that gives a benefit whereas thrassian does not.

    edit: even if I hate having to use spell sym.
    Edited by brandoncoffmannub18_ESO on July 31, 2020 11:27AM
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
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