Maintenance for the week of August 17
• PC/Mac: No maintenance– August 17th
• Xbox One: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – August 20th, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®4: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – August 20th, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
The Stonethorn DLC and Update 27 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

The new 'improved' stranglers

  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    What bothers me is how it really does feel that they're only over-correcting the item after Greymoor has sold, and I respect the approach of showing off the shiny new item, but...Thrassians only needed to gain weapon damage and maybe lower the stacks...nerfing it so hard into the ground that it's forgotten is insulting.

    It's disgusting and infuriating.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I won't be farming Antiquities for gear ever again if this is an example of what to expect.

    I would never farm antiquities for GEAR - heck this sort of thing happens all the time with all kinds of sets.

    However...I've not seen them nerf furniture.

    Yet.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (bosmer template) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Tanis-Stormbinder
    Tanis-Stormbinder
    ✭✭✭✭
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    I won't be farming Antiquities for gear ever again if this is an example of what to expect.

    I would never farm antiquities for GEAR - heck this sort of thing happens all the time with all kinds of sets.

    However...I've not seen them nerf furniture.

    Yet.

    The funny and sad thing in that reply is the word Yet, LOL
  • Mettaricana
    Mettaricana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Anyone else excited to see if they can make the set even worse in todays patch?
    I'm everything that doesn't belong in the pact but i'm there anyway...
  • Tanis-Stormbinder
    Tanis-Stormbinder
    ✭✭✭✭
    LOL, me
  • pklemming
    pklemming
    ✭✭✭
    I am waiting with baited breath. I am actually looking forwards to what will happen to stranglers today? Can they make them worse? I am thinking yes, yes then can !
  • Mettaricana
    Mettaricana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Im betting 10 wep and spell dmg per stack at 100 stacks, 24hr durarions -6k health plus the 50% reduction in healing, 50% dmg taken and disavled damage shield abilities lol
    I'm everything that doesn't belong in the pact but i'm there anyway...
  • Celestro
    Celestro
    ✭✭✭
    Funny, I thought 1150 WD/SD was the absolute minimum they should've aimed for based on certain calculations. It still isn't quite where I feel it should be but it's better at least, especially with the Max Health deduction being applied to the total instead of base amount.
    Edited by Celestro on August 3, 2020 2:24PM
  • SpiderKnight
    SpiderKnight
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So they're officially RIP now? No change except damage increase? Still not worth it.
  • MudcrabAttack
    MudcrabAttack
    ✭✭✭
    It wouldn't be hard to figure out the trade-off value. It all comes down to how much Magicka or Stamina has to be dropped to gain 6000 health after multipliers. Maybe something like 5500 after multipliers.

    1150 WD/SD damage outweighs that loss significantly since the number is buffed with multipliers, but it takes a while to build up. You'd go into a dungeon with 23000 health and deal less damage for quite a while.
    Edited by MudcrabAttack on August 3, 2020 2:53PM
  • Myrddin1357
    Myrddin1357
    ✭✭
    So they're officially RIP now? No change except damage increase? Still not worth it.

    These are not completely and utterly useless anymore at least. No other single item gives you 1150 damage increase with a potential 100 percent uptime after building up to that level. The trade-off is a flat 5000 health.

    Sure, 50 stacks makes this item really annoying to use. But at least now it can be considered as an option in some situations. The item seems geared for solo play only.

    But it is a clear improvement over last week's completely un-usable version.
  • Tanis-Stormbinder
    Tanis-Stormbinder
    ✭✭✭✭
    They should have at least raised the damage to 1200 for max stacks
  • kathandira
    kathandira
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my opinion, seeing 20 stacks in a dungeon or trial is realistic. Losing 2,000 health is impactful, but not the end of the world. But at 20 stacks, you only receive 460 SD/WD. I'd like to see the amount you gain to be a bit higher at the 20 stack mark to make the trade off of max health loss worth while.

    It's getting closer to being a trade off worth making, but isn't quite there yet.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • Calypso589
    Calypso589
    ✭✭✭
    kathandira wrote: »
    In my opinion, seeing 20 stacks in a dungeon or trial is realistic. Losing 2,000 health is impactful, but not the end of the world. But at 20 stacks, you only receive 460 SD/WD. I'd like to see the amount you gain to be a bit higher at the 20 stack mark to make the trade off of max health loss worth while.

    It's getting closer to being a trade off worth making, but isn't quite there yet.

    It's only kinda realistic. When 4D got their Trifecta and everyone was in Thrassian, only one maaaybe two IIRC actually finished with 20 stacks.

    And the Trial was over by that point.

    Now with this new iteration, to be better than a monster set you're gonna need at least 20 stacks or so.

    Realistic to earn in a Trial? Sure.

    Realistic to earn stacks early enough on in the Trial to be worth? Hard no.

    It'll be way more fun in dungeons where the group to trash ratio is way more favorable to the player wearing Thrassian.

    But in this form, I can't see anyone using it in Trials. Maybe one person? lol
    Edited by Calypso589 on August 3, 2020 4:08PM
  • Celestro
    Celestro
    ✭✭✭
    Calypso589 wrote: »
    kathandira wrote: »
    In my opinion, seeing 20 stacks in a dungeon or trial is realistic. Losing 2,000 health is impactful, but not the end of the world. But at 20 stacks, you only receive 460 SD/WD. I'd like to see the amount you gain to be a bit higher at the 20 stack mark to make the trade off of max health loss worth while.

    It's getting closer to being a trade off worth making, but isn't quite there yet.

    It's only kinda realistic. When 4D got their Trifecta and everyone was in Thrassian, only one maaaybe two IIRC actually finished with 20 stacks.

    And the Trial was over by that point.

    Now with this new iteration, to be better than a monster set you're gonna need at least 20 stacks or so.

    Realistic to earn in a Trial? Sure.

    Realistic to earn stacks early enough on in the Trial to be worth? Hard no.

    It'll be way more fun in dungeons where the group to trash ratio is way more favorable to the player wearing Thrassian.

    But in this form, I can't see anyone using it in Trials. Maybe one person? lol

    Yep, at most one or two people. I was thinking something like all other DD wear their normal monsters set while one has Thrassians. Once they reach a sufficient enough point, if not the max, one more person swaps their Thrassians in. Only way I see it working in trials with a lot of adds, which I guess does fit their preference of not having every single DD wearing one which is admittedly questionable.

    Still feel like the stack amount should be lowered regardless though. That or raise the WD/SD per stack up more, at absolute most 1500, so getting to that break even point vs using a monster set without excess Health is a bit faster. Might not ever be able to exceed that point in some situations so... /shrug
    Edited by Celestro on August 3, 2020 4:20PM
  • IonicKai
    IonicKai
    ✭✭✭✭
    The ramp time is just too expensive for what it does. Landing 50 stacks is absurd. ZOS literally just made siroria/relequen have less ramp time to try to solve this issue for those sets which was a good change. The duration and ramp time of the current live Thrassians is actually pretty appropriate. The risk was there because you have to have skilled play to not get one shot when at or near max stacks. The issue was that the reward was just too high. It needed a nerf in damage not all these other hoops and a longer ramp time. The trade off to use at a high amount of stacks is too expensive given that you need 20 to even start beating monster sets (and you will have traded more with the current changes). That makes it solo/dungeon play only and even then with serious trade offs that make it not worth it unless you are confident you will be getting a lot of killing blows. If they want 50 stacks it needs to be for kill participation not killing blow or these aren't worth it.
  • kathandira
    kathandira
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Calypso589 wrote: »
    kathandira wrote: »
    In my opinion, seeing 20 stacks in a dungeon or trial is realistic. Losing 2,000 health is impactful, but not the end of the world. But at 20 stacks, you only receive 460 SD/WD. I'd like to see the amount you gain to be a bit higher at the 20 stack mark to make the trade off of max health loss worth while.

    It's getting closer to being a trade off worth making, but isn't quite there yet.

    It's only kinda realistic. When 4D got their Trifecta and everyone was in Thrassian, only one maaaybe two IIRC actually finished with 20 stacks.

    And the Trial was over by that point.

    Now with this new iteration, to be better than a monster set you're gonna need at least 20 stacks or so.

    Realistic to earn in a Trial? Sure.

    Realistic to earn stacks early enough on in the Trial to be worth? Hard no.

    It'll be way more fun in dungeons where the group to trash ratio is way more favorable to the player wearing Thrassian.

    But in this form, I can't see anyone using it in Trials. Maybe one person? lol

    Great thought provoking points.

    I feel the devs are missing out on one of the functions of this item that they could lean on more.

    Crouching removes all stacks.

    They should be looking into speeding up the ramp up of the stacks, and forcing players to choose wisely when it is time to drop stacks. Risk/Reward would be even more in the hands of the user. How much risk are you willing to take to be rewarded?

    Example:

    10 stacks
    150 SD/WD per stack
    600 less Max Health

    1,500 SD/WD gain is very attractive, but losing 6,000 health makes you a wet piece of paper.

    You might be ok with losing 1/2 the health, at 3,000 less. And you would still gain 750 SD/WD. At this time, you would likely choose to either be very cautious about gaining additional stacks, or you may need to take a knee and drop the stacks. It would add more stress on decision making as you play.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • IonicKai
    IonicKai
    ✭✭✭✭
    kathandira wrote: »
    Calypso589 wrote: »
    kathandira wrote: »
    In my opinion, seeing 20 stacks in a dungeon or trial is realistic. Losing 2,000 health is impactful, but not the end of the world. But at 20 stacks, you only receive 460 SD/WD. I'd like to see the amount you gain to be a bit higher at the 20 stack mark to make the trade off of max health loss worth while.

    It's getting closer to being a trade off worth making, but isn't quite there yet.

    It's only kinda realistic. When 4D got their Trifecta and everyone was in Thrassian, only one maaaybe two IIRC actually finished with 20 stacks.

    And the Trial was over by that point.

    Now with this new iteration, to be better than a monster set you're gonna need at least 20 stacks or so.

    Realistic to earn in a Trial? Sure.

    Realistic to earn stacks early enough on in the Trial to be worth? Hard no.

    It'll be way more fun in dungeons where the group to trash ratio is way more favorable to the player wearing Thrassian.

    But in this form, I can't see anyone using it in Trials. Maybe one person? lol

    Great thought provoking points.

    I feel the devs are missing out on one of the functions of this item that they could lean on more.

    Crouching removes all stacks.

    They should be looking into speeding up the ramp up of the stacks, and forcing players to choose wisely when it is time to drop stacks. Risk/Reward would be even more in the hands of the user. How much risk are you willing to take to be rewarded?

    Example:

    10 stacks
    150 SD/WD per stack
    600 less Max Health

    1,500 SD/WD gain is very attractive, but losing 6,000 health makes you a wet piece of paper.

    You might be ok with losing 1/2 the health, at 3,000 less. And you would still gain 750 SD/WD. At this time, you would likely choose to either be very cautious about gaining additional stacks, or you may need to take a knee and drop the stacks. It would add more stress on decision making as you play.

    Agreed. If the goal is stack management then it needs to be fast gain to compensate for build adjustment. If it's going to be semi-permanent then the reward needs to justify the loss you are giving and needs to do so at a reasonably early break even point.
  • M4j0r
    M4j0r
    ✭✭✭
    Mythic Items

    Thrassian Stranglers:
    Fixed an issue where this set’s Max Health reduction was increasing with other bonuses to Max Health. It will now stay at the values listed.
    Increased the Weapon and Spell Damage per stack to 23, up from 17, to better ensure the tail end of this set rewards its user.


    Serious? Sry ZOS, take it out of the game or rename it as "mythic lemming item". Its nothing more than a huge joke.
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a little bit better but still, as has been said, it is lackluster.

    The only place I personally see using these is on my hybrid Sorcerer who uses all Tri-Stat glyphs by default and who has a higher HP pool due to relying upon Blood Frenzy to boost Weapon/Spell Damage.

    Perhaps I could dispense with Blood Frenzy and simply use Thrassians instead. After the HP deductions, the character would be about the same Health as a regular DPS.

    The 50 stacks is still a giant drag though.
  • kathandira
    kathandira
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a little bit better but still, as has been said, it is lackluster.

    The only place I personally see using these is on my hybrid Sorcerer who uses all Tri-Stat glyphs by default and who has a higher HP pool due to relying upon Blood Frenzy to boost Weapon/Spell Damage.

    Perhaps I could dispense with Blood Frenzy and simply use Thrassians instead. After the HP deductions, the character would be about the same Health as a regular DPS.

    The 50 stacks is still a giant drag though.

    Indeed, In many cases, the max stacks just won't be achieved. 20 Stacks was a good place for the way it is Live. But if they want it to really feel like a harsh risk/reward, lowering the stack count would actually be better than raising it. With this new iteration of it, the risk is that it simply won't be better than wearing something else as it is a DPS loss in most cases.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • ketsparrowhawk
    ketsparrowhawk
    ✭✭✭✭
    50 stacks is way too much, especially considering how easy it easy to lose them. I don't want to re-climb that mountain every time I die or port to a new zone.

    By the time you account for the fact that you're giving up a set bonus to use this item, and the fact that you have to give up a chunk of your primary stat to compensate for the HP loss.. you'll need to get around 30 stacks just to "break even" vs wearing Julianos/Hundings. Too much work not enough reward.

    I could see the current PTS iteration working okay if they cut the stacks in half at least.
  • Kolzki
    Kolzki
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are basically two things happening with stranglers: a balance issue and a mini game. For the balance issue there are basically two options:
    1. Let players trade health for damage in a way that is balanced along similar power standards for other sets (and less exciting because standards are not exciting).
    2. Break the existing power standards and limit the power through the mini game.

    Clearly the developers are trying to learn towards option 2. What happens if the game can't be won or if the reward isn't worth it? Well... we won't use the set. What happens if players learn to beat the mini game? The set is unbalanced.

    From a pve point of view, we saw this with simmering frenzy when it first arived on pts. It went from "mini game too easy - must use/unbalanced" to "mini game too punishing - won't use". We're seeing this for blood for blood now with the current pts. And now we're seeing this for thrassian stranglers. All of these broke the power standards and all have flipped between being unbalanced and being useless.

    Items that do not conform to power standards are generally either meta or its junk. If the item/skill can be used effectively then it will be unbalanced. As soon as it the mechanics make the mini game unwinnable, or if the reward is not worth playing the mini game (e.g. 20+ stacks needed to beat a monster set), then the item becomes junk.

  • josiahva
    josiahva
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    kathandira wrote: »
    Calypso589 wrote: »
    kathandira wrote: »
    In my opinion, seeing 20 stacks in a dungeon or trial is realistic. Losing 2,000 health is impactful, but not the end of the world. But at 20 stacks, you only receive 460 SD/WD. I'd like to see the amount you gain to be a bit higher at the 20 stack mark to make the trade off of max health loss worth while.

    It's getting closer to being a trade off worth making, but isn't quite there yet.

    It's only kinda realistic. When 4D got their Trifecta and everyone was in Thrassian, only one maaaybe two IIRC actually finished with 20 stacks.

    And the Trial was over by that point.

    Now with this new iteration, to be better than a monster set you're gonna need at least 20 stacks or so.

    Realistic to earn in a Trial? Sure.

    Realistic to earn stacks early enough on in the Trial to be worth? Hard no.

    It'll be way more fun in dungeons where the group to trash ratio is way more favorable to the player wearing Thrassian.

    But in this form, I can't see anyone using it in Trials. Maybe one person? lol

    Great thought provoking points.

    I feel the devs are missing out on one of the functions of this item that they could lean on more.

    Crouching removes all stacks.

    They should be looking into speeding up the ramp up of the stacks, and forcing players to choose wisely when it is time to drop stacks. Risk/Reward would be even more in the hands of the user. How much risk are you willing to take to be rewarded?

    Example:

    10 stacks
    150 SD/WD per stack
    600 less Max Health

    1,500 SD/WD gain is very attractive, but losing 6,000 health makes you a wet piece of paper.

    You might be ok with losing 1/2 the health, at 3,000 less. And you would still gain 750 SD/WD. At this time, you would likely choose to either be very cautious about gaining additional stacks, or you may need to take a knee and drop the stacks. It would add more stress on decision making as you play.

    I think they should go the other way...ok, stacks last an hour...but are ONLY removed on death....then up the damage to make the highly increased risk worth it(besides, its very annoying that killing something with a heavy attack on accident makes you go invisible and drop stacks if you have that perk in the shadow tree)
  • Red_Feather
    Red_Feather
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No exaggeration, but it won't get used after this goes live.

    A developer should let us know why it is getting changed in a way that removes it's usefulness in any game modes.


    Edited by Red_Feather on August 4, 2020 6:07PM
  • Mettaricana
    Mettaricana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Just revert thrassian back cap the wep and spell at like 1200-1500 call it a day. 20 stacks hour or more duration keep the shield heals and danage penalty and just revert the damage this is so friggan dumb..
    I'm everything that doesn't belong in the pact but i'm there anyway...
  • Fur_like_snow
    Fur_like_snow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just leave it how it is on live if you have to change something this many times it means you shouldn’t have messed with it in the first place. At the most reduce the overall damage the health trade off at max stacks just seems like a big nope.
  • Faylestar
    Faylestar
    Soul Shriven
    I'm just not sure where you're supposed to use an item that caps out at 50 stacks and is removed on zoning/death.

    Even most dungeons, 50 killing blows is iffy, trials is a no.

    Farming public dungeons? I dont see why you'd drop a monster or 5piece set bonus for that. At least the current versions ramp up on a couple trash packs.

Sign In or Register to comment.