The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Thrassian Stranglers: No, Thats Not Any Better
Tyrobag
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Thrassian Stranglers:
Reduced the Weapon and Spell Damage per stack to 17, down from 40.
This set no longer causes you to take 1% more damage per stack, or decreases your healing taken by 1% per stack.
This set now causes you to lose 120 Maximum Health for every stack you have. The maximum stack count stays at 50, resulting in the final stats to be 850 Weapon and Spell Damage, -6000 Health, and -50% shield efficacy.
Increased the duration of the stacks to 1 hour, up from 10 minutes, to better cement the quasi-permanent permanency.
So apparently instead of balancing then by making them dangerous to wear you've just decided to up the annoyance factor?
Here's a list of the issues:
1. 17 per kill is not worth it, it no longer grants enough damage to be worth using (Not Dangerous, Annoying)
2. It takes WAY too much time to charge up, 50 stacks is insane (Not Dangerous, Annoying)
3. Its ridiculously easy to accidentally bump your sneak button and completely wipe out your progress (Not Dangerous, Annoying. Seeing a pattern here?)
4. There is no reason what so ever to have a time limit. What made you think you needed "quasi-permanent permanency" instead of permanency? (Not Dangerous, just pointless)
Here is a list of fixes:
1. & 2. Reduce to 20 stacks, 75 points per stack (Total 1500, enough to be worth it)
3. The set no longer removes the bonus while sneaking, instead removing it only when you unequip the gloves. To prevent OP ganking use the buff can be suppressed while sneaking, when leaving stealth the buff continues to be suppressed for 10 seconds.
4. Make stacks once again permanent until removed.
If you want a debuff that makes them dangerous to use, and more dangerous as they grow in power try something like this: 3% of all damage you deal is also dealt to you as oblivion damage. (Capped at 10% of your health per second, to prevent issues with aoe) This would make it a true kiss-curse, as the more damage you deal, the more punishing it becomes.
The devs seem to be laboring under the delusion that there is some kind of "not-so-sweet spot" where something is both useable and rarely used. This will never be the case. An item is either good enough, thus it is used; or not good enough, thus it is not used. Do niche builds exist? Yes, but lets be honest their users are few and far between. The Thrassian Stranglers are intended to be a Mythic item. They are supposed to be good. They are supposed to be desirable. Please stop trying to find ways to balance damage vs. annoyance. Just make the Thrassian Stranglers good, without being too OP.
Edited by Tyrobag on July 27, 2020 9:13PM Reduced the Weapon and Spell Damage per stack to 17, down from 40.
This set no longer causes you to take 1% more damage per stack, or decreases your healing taken by 1% per stack.
This set now causes you to lose 120 Maximum Health for every stack you have. The maximum stack count stays at 50, resulting in the final stats to be 850 Weapon and Spell Damage, -6000 Health, and -50% shield efficacy.
Increased the duration of the stacks to 1 hour, up from 10 minutes, to better cement the quasi-permanent permanency.
So apparently instead of balancing then by making them dangerous to wear you've just decided to up the annoyance factor?
Here's a list of the issues:
1. 17 per kill is not worth it, it no longer grants enough damage to be worth using (Not Dangerous, Annoying)
2. It takes WAY too much time to charge up, 50 stacks is insane (Not Dangerous, Annoying)
3. Its ridiculously easy to accidentally bump your sneak button and completely wipe out your progress (Not Dangerous, Annoying. Seeing a pattern here?)
4. There is no reason what so ever to have a time limit. What made you think you needed "quasi-permanent permanency" instead of permanency? (Not Dangerous, just pointless)
Here is a list of fixes:
1. & 2. Reduce to 20 stacks, 75 points per stack (Total 1500, enough to be worth it)
3. The set no longer removes the bonus while sneaking, instead removing it only when you unequip the gloves. To prevent OP ganking use the buff can be suppressed while sneaking, when leaving stealth the buff continues to be suppressed for 10 seconds.
4. Make stacks once again permanent until removed.
If you want a debuff that makes them dangerous to use, and more dangerous as they grow in power try something like this: 3% of all damage you deal is also dealt to you as oblivion damage. (Capped at 10% of your health per second, to prevent issues with aoe) This would make it a true kiss-curse, as the more damage you deal, the more punishing it becomes.
The devs seem to be laboring under the delusion that there is some kind of "not-so-sweet spot" where something is both useable and rarely used. This will never be the case. An item is either good enough, thus it is used; or not good enough, thus it is not used. Do niche builds exist? Yes, but lets be honest their users are few and far between. The Thrassian Stranglers are intended to be a Mythic item. They are supposed to be good. They are supposed to be desirable. Please stop trying to find ways to balance damage vs. annoyance. Just make the Thrassian Stranglers good, without being too OP.
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Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Complete garbage now
1) takes too long to build
2) 17 wp/sd per stack is laughable
3) health is reduced too much
4) shield nerfed too much.. -50%?? Really?7 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Honestly, the penalty before was perfect (2% increased damage). You felt the increased damage, even in overland. It prevented you from sleepwalking through content. All they had to do if they wanted to adjust these was just reduce the spell damage a little.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thrassian Stranglers:
So apparently instead of balancing then by making them dangerous to wear you've just decided to up the annoyance factor?
Here's a list of the issues:
1. 17 per kill is not worth it, it no longer grants enough damage to be worth using (Not Dangerous, Annoying)
2. It takes WAY too much time to charge up, 50 stacks is insane (Not Dangerous, Annoying)
3. Its ridiculously easy to accidentally bump your sneak button and completely wipe out your progress (Not Dangerous, Annoying. Seeing a pattern here?)
4. There is no reason what so ever to have a time limit. What made you think you needed "quasi-permanent permanency" instead of permanency? (Not Dangerous, just pointless)
Here is a list of fixes:
1. & 2. Reduce to 20 stacks, 75 points per stack (Total 1500, enough to be worth it)
3. The set no longer removes the bonus while sneaking, instead removing it only when you unequip the gloves. To prevent OP ganking use the buff can be suppressed while sneaking, when leaving stealth the buff continues to be suppressed for 10 seconds.
4. Make stacks once again permanent until removed.
I don't really agree that "annoying" applies to all of that. Definitely, number 3, but the rest are really not.
I think that the "permanency" issue is a hard requirement for the game, not something that is a feature of the item. It has to be something sufficiently long enough for it to be considered permanent, but below the threshold that they have not stated that is the maximum duration that they can have.
1500? Not if they keep the -6k health hit. It is 3000 today, and I think it should remain at least half of the health hit, but at 50 stacks instead of 20. It should also require some coordination with the group to get there, which is the point of the stack increase. 50 stacks, 60 per stack.
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carlos424✭✭✭✭✭Ya, totally useless. You will have to spec for extra health, taking away damage. Remember, you are already losing a fifth piece set bonus or monster set. So you will have to get 50 kills for 850 spell/weapon damage but have 6000 less health. Lol. Not worth the freaking hassle, but I guess that’s the point. Why not just remove it from the game? I know, instead of granting spell/weapon damage how about make the bonus “while equipped, you no longer have a 3 second cooldown to aoe abilities.” : )2 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its not worth it anymore. 850 weapon/spell damage for insane ammount of 50 stacks to fill - i cant imagine someone will use this in future.
If you wana keep low damage increase, you should make it to be maxed with 20 stacks at max. Also this isnt high risk/reward set for magicka anymore (with shields being magicka defensive mechanic), while stamina gets only minus health.
-50% shield reduction? Why is this set again focused against magsorc while stam can freely use it? Just slap that heavy armor weapon damage sets on yourself and go
ELDER STAMINA ONLINE!Edited by Anyron on July 28, 2020 4:19AM3 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭I personally wish they would just make this Mythic for Overland purposes. Change it's tooltip to something like.
"While in any Overland Zone, Public Dungeon, or Delve increase your Weapon and Spell Power by 2500 but also increase your Damage Taken by 30% and reduce your healing and shield effectiveness by 30%. These effects are not active within Cyrodiil or the Imperial City."
Bam and done you have a useful overland mythic that can't be abused for meaningful gaps in other content like PvP or Arena/HM Trials/Dungeons. It's casual friendly and makes people happy that we have an absurdly useful Mythic if we are doing anything in those activities.
Otherwise they will just keep nerfing it or finding alternatives that will make it not used at all because it takes too long to ramp up.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be interesting to hear what some of the "class reps" think of all this is that programs still exist. They should be able to provide their opinion on this without violating the NDA.5 -
fboostb16_ESO✭✭✭Here's a simple idea: Keep the set exactly as it is on live (20 stacks 3K dmg), but make the bonus dependent on group size. 1-3 people: full dmg buff, 4-9 people: half dmg buff, 10 or more people: quarter dmg buff. Keep the debuff exectly as it is on live in all cases and keep the stack size and count like they are on live. You get to where PTS is now, but the set would be useful in all content. You can't nerf a set only because of trial performance. Trials are such a small part of the player's experience and the debuff won't bring more people in.Edited by fboostb16_ESO on July 28, 2020 4:59AM3
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MaselClass RepresentativeIt would be interesting to hear what some of the "class reps" think of all this is that programs still exist. They should be able to provide their opinion on this without violating the NDA.
I think the set is trash can material this way. 50 stacks are very hard to get and 17 per stack isnt really impactful at all, plus the tradeoff is too high.
Imagine killing 20 mobs just to get to a regular 5 pc set value, but with a loss of a bunch of health attached to it.
It is too powerful on live, but this just straight up kills the set entirely.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA7 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What's the deal with double dip into shield strength? Most shields have shield size capped at % of max health or determined on your % max health (only very few shields have nothing to do with health). You already reduce shield strength significantly by reducing max hp, why the % reduction to shield strenght on top of that?2 -
Raikiki✭✭✭Just give us 800sp and wp dmg for free with the penalty of getting 40% more dmg and less shield.Just screw the stacking System at all3
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The kiss and curse seem reasonably balanced, assuming no item slot was used. But using an item slot, and with a hassle to build them up, and with a finicky likelihood of accidentally losing 50 stacks of effort -- why would anybody ever equip this???0 -
artal✭✭✭Don't play with this set but I just can't see any logic in these changes.
From strong set (that had few bugs to fix) to complete trash set. Why would anyone give 5k health for 800 WD/WD.
And 50 stacks??? Are you sure this is not some kind of joke?
Sometimes in cyrodiil you dont kill 50 people in 1 hr. So what, people will need to go in delves to kill mobs? which noone will do since set is decon quality now.
Less stacks, more profit out of it and keep it with healing and shielding % penalty.0 -
XellJarmar✭✭✭I'm seriously wondering why ZOS is so concerned about the performance of thrassian stranglers in the trial situation. There always has been BiS setting, and it is not something that popped up with the introduction of thrassian stranglers. Yes, it was somewhat overtuned, and needed some adjustment, along with some love to stamina toons. Not this nerf sledge. A trial group is assumed to be optimized, or at least members are assumed to know what they are doing, and what they must do. If some damage dealers were running thrassian stranglers, tanks and healers would work harder to keep them alive. It seems that ZOS is mad about the fact that the tanks and the healers are working a lot to keep damage dealers with thrassian stranglers alive, however, who in the trial group would be like "Hey that guy's running thrassian strangler! How fool to trade their life to damage boost! Let's sit back and watch them get killed by increased 40% incoming damage and reduced healing and shield capacity!"? Please don't penalize the players who are actually eager to play the game. Thrassian stranglers in PTS feels like far inferior to some crafted sets and overland sets such as war maiden. It is totally pointless.2 -
Tanis-Stormbinder✭✭✭✭✭XellJarmar wrote: »I'm seriously wondering why ZOS is so concerned about the performance of thrassian stranglers in the trial situation. There always has been BiS setting, and it is not something that popped up with the introduction of thrassian stranglers. Yes, it was somewhat overtuned, and needed some adjustment, along with some love to stamina toons. Not this nerf sledge. A trial group is assumed to be optimized, or at least members are assumed to know what they are doing, and what they must do. If some damage dealers were running thrassian stranglers, tanks and healers would work harder to keep them alive. It seems that ZOS is mad about the fact that the tanks and the healers are working a lot to keep damage dealers with thrassian stranglers alive, however, who in the trial group would be like "Hey that guy's running thrassian strangler! How fool to trade their life to damage boost! Let's sit back and watch them get killed by increased 40% incoming damage and reduced healing and shield capacity!"? Please don't penalize the players who are actually eager to play the game. Thrassian stranglers in PTS feels like far inferior to some crafted sets and overland sets such as war maiden. It is totally pointless.
I'm starting to think your way, just leave it alone and make a stamina version. Tone the damage per stack down a bit but don't trash this set!Edited by Tanis-Stormbinder on July 28, 2020 9:22AM2 -
seerevaloc✭✭✭Ya, totally useless. You will have to spec for extra health, taking away damage. Remember, you are already losing a fifth piece set bonus or monster set. So you will have to get 50 kills for 850 spell/weapon damage but have 6000 less health. Lol. Not worth the freaking hassle, but I guess that’s the point. Why not just remove it from the game? I know, instead of granting spell/weapon damage how about make the bonus “while equipped, you no longer have a 3 second cooldown to aoe abilities.” : )
This is the safest way we can keep this item in the content. They've already confessed that this was a total scandal & scamming. Sold us Mythic items & New Vampire, when parcel arrived we found cucumber. And they're still trying to defend this scandal, trying to fit into context.
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Villainelle✭✭XellJarmar wrote: »There always has been BiS setting, and it is not something that popped up with the introduction of thrassian stranglers. Yes, it was somewhat overtuned, and needed some adjustment, along with some love to stamina toons.
"Somewhat overtuned" is a massive understatement.
The problem with Thrassian isn't just that it's BiS - it's BiS by a huge margin. If an item is BiS by providing a 1% or 2% increase over the next-best item/set, that's one thing. When a single item (obtainable via overland PVE, no less) is performing 20%+ better than any other set bonus, it's completely imbalanced.
ZOS tried to keep the power level the same while introducing harsher penalties. That's not the way to solve this issue. The issue is that it's too strong to begin with, and no amount of penalty stacking will balance that out...unless they make the item completely unusable with insanely harsh penalties, which seems to be their current solution.
Stop trying to balance the power with higher and higher penalties. Just reduce the power, and the penalties can fall along with it, then fine-tune until it's not standing head-and-shoulders as the BiS item. Thrassian needs to be within 5% of the next-best set bonuses. Give a slight edge for a slightly higher risk. It shouldn't be the obvious choice - it should be one good but risky choice out of many.Edited by Villainelle on July 28, 2020 12:41PM0 -
visionality✭✭✭✭✭I have a hard time understanding how anybody at ZOS can think a mythic item with these properties could be attractive.
850 more weapon/spelldamage in exchange for 6000 less health and 50% weaker shields (plus shield reduction connected to reduced max health), while you sacrifice either your second 5-trait-set or your full monsterset? And need 50 killing blows to reach these 850 more damage?
Maybe some ppl who gnashed their teeth to dust while fishing in Arteum will continue to wear it just because they wasted so much time acquiring it. But everybody else will treat it as the trash it is if this change goes life.Edited by visionality on July 28, 2020 1:07PM3 -
seerevaloc✭✭✭This was a complete part of a sick marketing strategy.
1. They're testing every item before introducing it (Do they?).
2. They knew these items were too OP
3. They've introduced them into the content & continued marketing Greymoor chapter heavily.
4. Videos started flying around 8x stranglers for Godslayer, Dawnbringer, etc. people have bought the chapter.
5. Aftermath: Dev: This item cannot exist in-game. As if he first time heard there's this item existing in the game and taking action.
We all knew this was broken, they knew aswell. I'm criticizing this "baiting" mentality, this business fashion. I'm well aware items could change in MMOs (as I've already rotated around 4-5 meta) and this is just fine, something actually I like even.
How do you expect me to think "yea, but they're good intended people" after all this action-set? It's not 11 y/o boys playing this game, mature people from various professional fields are here either.
But surging a broken item in a very short time intentionally, and pulling back when sold enough -> Is simply a malicious business mindset and has to stop.
I wish they will not repeat this for the next chapters.
This campaign has already been diluted a lot with their wrongdoings.Edited by seerevaloc on July 28, 2020 1:21PM1 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe they should change the name of this item to “Thrassian Stranglers of a Thousand Truths” and lock it away on a Zip drive in Accounting until the conditions of the prophecy are met.1 -
Surak73✭✭✭✭fboostb16_ESO wrote: »Here's a simple idea: Keep the set exactly as it is on live (20 stacks 3K dmg), but make the bonus dependent on group size. 1-3 people: full dmg buff, 4-9 people: half dmg buff, 10 or more people: quarter dmg buff. Keep the debuff exectly as it is on live in all cases and keep the stack size and count like they are on live. You get to where PTS is now, but the set would be useful in all content. You can't nerf a set only because of trial performance. Trials are such a small part of the player's experience and the debuff won't bring more people in.
That sounds good, but I'd prefer something more radical. Let's say: keep the conditions as they are on live (20 permanent stacks), but change the bonus value as follows:
New bonus = Old bonus / Number of group members. So the item is excellent for solo players (+3000 damage), who can manage the risks of more incoming damage / less healing and shields; it's still acceptable in a dungeon context (+750 damage, a bit less than +850 now proposed, but without having to respec for health; or +1500, if two players run a dungeon by themselves, without tank and healer); and it's pretty useless in a trial context (+250 damage).0
