PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Existing Item Sets

driosketch

Soul Shine:
This set, which is pretty niche, has been nerfed too much. I run a magplar with War Maiden and Soul Shine (lighting staff with purple rings and heavy chest). Damage with Puncturing Sweep + LAs weaved as well as the RD execute phase are under performing on PTS vs. Live on a test dummy. Keep in mind, this is combined with WM's 50% buff. That amounts to an insane nerf, even though it didn't look like it was that much on paper. On PTS I also traded Soul Shine for Julianos, sacrificing additional spell dmg (on paper) for a small increase in spell crit % and did better. Also closer to or better than what I did on Live, again taking into account the boost to WM.

Before I decon my Soul Shine gear, please look at this set again.

Edit: I'm wondering if the proc on this set is broken. I also encountered a weird bug where I couldn't used ground target attacks and my staff became a light spear until I came out of combat.

ExistingRug61

Twice Born Star and Pelinal's Aptitude could benefit from the trend shown in this patch of "hybridising" sets 2-4 piece bonuses (like New Moon, now Innate Axiom, Assassin Guile etc) to make them more likely to be used. Especially given they are both require 9 traits to craft.

Cinbri

Storm Knight comparable worse than Overwhelming Surge and thus cant be heavy armor replacement for it:
1. SK ticks 2466 per 2sec = 1233 damage per second, while Surge is 1114/s = 2228 per 2sec. damage per second per tick of Surge is 10% weaker. However Surge have 15% mana drain from damage, not 10% and thus Knight should get 5% more damage increase. And that without taking into account that twice less frequency of Knight means twice worse synenrgy with other sets, like Draugrkin, i.e. even further damage loss.
2. SK is 5meters radius while Surge is 8meters. That is huge difference that even with equal damage would push SK to be always overshadowed by Surge due high mobility of opponents.
3. Proc condition of SK are far worse and requre SK to fight either magicka spec of stam spec taht have source of magickal damage while proc condition of Surge got buffed into literally 100% reliability.
So SK needs damage buff and its radius set to 8meters to be comparable to similar set.

MrZeDark

Alkosh still needs modification.

It needs to greatly be benefited to a person who scales damage, over a tank.

Such as determine debuff modification through another stat. Maybe even somewhat like your your if / then /that gear sets. So the more resists a person has at the time, the weaker the debuff would be. Scaling in such a way, that the more resist players have -- the less zerg is needed, while the less resists the person(s) have - the more zerg is needed.

Just something to push this set right off of tanks that are trying to be a wall and or pure support, and more into the hands of tanks that are trying to also add DPS. That and pushing this more into the hands of Glass Cannon DPS - who need to address being more survivable while supporting the group DPS comp

IonicKai

It's been stated more than once on different threads but the false gods/ perfected false gods nerf does not make sense. The comparison of pfg to VO is nonsense other than the fact that they do similar things. When considering power of a set you have to take into account difficulty of getting that set at least to a degree. With the proposed changes right now you are deleting false gods from the game and gimping PFG for no reason. The sets are fine where they are at and serve as a basis for a good all purpose set.

Also just to clarify the logic that VO is perfected quick serpent is a bizarre justification. Quick serpent comes from a single trial and can drop in normal or vet. VO comes from all 3 crags, has minor slayer (which is a buff that doesn't exist on quick serpent), and drops on both difficulty tiers. The level of effort to get VO matches the level of effort for normal false gods (actually it's easier but they are both simple). PFG doesn't even drop from chests and must be completed on vet. Not only are there less opportunities for getting PFG (3-6 total chances per run depending on if hm is on or not), but veteran sunspire is significantly harder than even vet crags. You are punishing players unnecessarily for work put in on content.

Firstmep

Couple more ideas/feedback:

Soulshine, after testing this set further: Either increase the spell damage added by this set, or add another affect like hp recovery or maybe magicka recovery.
Also please increase the duration, otherwise this set will not be competitive with other sets.
Looking at stamina side, seventh legion brute now gives 341 wpd and hp recovery, for 15 seconds, and has a much more universally easier proc condition. In contrast soulshine is very limited to how it can be procced and is just weaker in every way.

Arkasis: The lack of range limit on this set could be a pretty big issue in pvp, when travelling between large distances in cyrodiil we get a loadscreen, yet this set can affect my allies that are potentially on the other side of the map?
Im not sure if the lack of limit will help or hurt performance.

Briarheart, just reiterating what i said before, please allow the heal from this set to critically strike in order to allow it to benefit from the crit based playstyle this set pushes.

Talfyg’s Treachery: This set is literally worse than new moon acolyte in every possible way, including its downside, the spell damage granted could easily be set to 500+ and most people would still not use it.
Maybe make it so that the bonus is doubled if you are at least a stage 3 vampire, to drive home the obvious thematic synergy.

Onefrkncrzypope

Relequen is applied by light or heavy attacks. The cooldown doesn't matter.... The only way that would matter is if 2h passive counted but it doesn't.

Swing and a miss

Jodynn

Thrassian are pretty trash now except very specific setups.

If they're going to be so underwhelming and require building for them just to use can you at least make group kills count for anyone wearing them? Or do you just want them butchered?

SidraWillowsky

Thrassian Stranglers, wut? *headscratch*

Luvtrain

I probably won't even use stranglers in vMA now. They keep getting worse every week!

Ryan1704

1st set of notes thrassian was hit hard so you slightly buffed it in the second and honestly I thought the 2nd patch for this set was infact a good middle ground but then in the 3rd set of notes you gut it even harder than in the original set of notes. Can we please make up our mind and not flip flop on ideas.

Czekoludek

How you managed to worse thrassians each pts week? This set is now such a weak, unintresting item, my god xd If you want to leave it like that, at least change method of stack acquisition to get stack per crit direct dmg or something similar. Right now it is dead set

IonicKai

ZOS .... At this point just remove thrassians from the game.... 50 stacks is too many when you need to get the killing blow!!! This is double true when your pets don't contribute to your stacks (you are competing with players and pets). Also the damage gain to health loss makes this set unusable. It ensures that the damage isn't worth it even if it was 20 stacks to get full damage.

I still think the right move here if you want it to be useful is keep that it's weapon and spell damage but leave I closer to live. Just reduce the total damage gained to like 1500 or 1000. Enough that it's worth considering but not so much that it's mandatory for well coordinated groups.

Edit: typo

Tanis-Stormbinder

As I said before it seem they don't know what to do with Thrassian Stranglers. So with 25 stacks you only get 425 Spell and weapon damage. I don't see many people wanting or getting 50 stack for the full 850. The cost now seems to high for the reward, who's going to want to lose 3000 health for 25 stacks nevermind 6000 health for the full 50 stacks. Please come up with something more reasonable or just delete the item. Something that was so much fun you have destroyed.

M4j0r

Thrassians got ripped more and more, no sense to play it, because 50 stacks are max. and not realistic to get, but losing up to 6k health? Come on, who should play that set? Lemmings? Sry, but whoever designs that set should stop make it even more useless. By the way: What means permanent? Have you played your own content without "godmode"? it is on vet and even vet Hm, especially on tripples more than hard, to stop dying and by that losing stacks.

Dojohoda

Caluurion’s Legacy
Thank you for "This set once again requires a Critical Strike in order to trigger"!

Canned_Apples

Dojohoda wrote: »

Caluurion’s Legacy
Thank you for "This set once again requires a Critical Strike in order to trigger"!

Yeah, but they INCREASE THE DAMAGE AGAIN. It already procs on CD on live, so this is only another buff to an OPed set.
Damage on live: 12900
Damage without crit: 13290
New damage: 14000

There are already way too many NBs running this set, now it's going to be nothing but.
NBs already have the highest population in BGs, this will only bolster their numbers.

It's as if @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_Gilliam have given up on "balancing" classes and are now focused solely on balancing combat around proc sets.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Thrassian Stranglers - The only two changes Zos needed to make was reduce the damage per stack and add weapon damage for our stam brothers. But they want to wreck it to dust.

WrathOfInnos

We need to talk about Thrassian Stranglers. I think the best way to evaluate the latest version is to look at a few key points in the stack building process. I’ll use a typical magicka DPS build with 18.8k health as an example (bistat food with a 1.38X health modifier).

0 Thrassian Stacks: Starting point for any content, ~6% DPS loss over a typical 5pc set, survivability unaffected

18 Thrassian Stacks: Break-even point with 5pc Julianos, 0% DPS gain/loss over crafted baseline gear, 3k health loss = 16% survivability reduction

27 Thrassian Stacks: Break-even point with 5pc Spell Strategist (or approx Mother’s Sorrow), 0% DPS gain/loss over tradeable overland gear, 4.5k health loss = 24% survivability reduction

36 Thrassian Stacks: Break-even point with Perfect Siroria, 0% DPS gain/loss over best trial gear, 6k health loss = 32% survivability reduction

50 Thrassian Stacks: Full 850 Spell Damage, 3% to 6% DPS gain compared to the previous 2 gear options, 8.3k health loss = 44% survivability reduction

These values simply don’t make any sense. It’s a substantial health loss with zero gain for most of the time building stacks, which may eventually lead to a minimal gain with massive health loss at max stacks. And add into that the shield reduction (which seems excessive since shields scale on max health, so they get hit double), as well as the difficulty building stacks in group content due to the killing blow requirement.

Is the goal really for the one PVE DPS Mythic item to go unused? Please review these values and the proc condition, something seems off in the spreadsheet @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Edit: Honestly with the current scaling, it ends up a pretty linear scale from a 6% DPS loss at 0 stacks and about 6% DPS gain at 50 stacks (assuming content where Siroria isn’t possible). That alone is enough of a curse, it could have no effect on health or shields and be balanced. I’m not recommending this as a solution, but it demonstrates how far out of whack a 44% reduction in health really is for the chance at a tiny damage increase.

Changing the amount of Spell Damage per kill from 300 down to 17 is too drastic, that’s a 94% nerf, and increasing max stacks from 20 to 50 is often irrelevant with the killing blow RNG competition.

Edit 2: After thinking more about Thrassian for Stamina DPS, I think it performs even worse there. At 50 stacks, 850 Weapon Damage ends up very similar to the 5pc bonus on Perfected Lokkestiiz. Stamina also tends to run lower health than Magicka, so cutting the health pool in half is even less of an option, especially if it gives close to zero DPS gain.

Edit 3: To compare the damage taken debuff to the health debuff we can look at a one-shot. With the Greymoor version at 40% damage taken at full stacks, a hit that normally deals 72% of your health would be amplified to 1.4 x 72% = 100% and kill you. The earlier PTS version changed this to 50%, allowing an attack for 67% of your health to kill you. Now the 6.1.2 version reduces max health by 44%, which means an attack for 56% of max health will be lethal. Even if the damage was good I don’t believe the set would be usable in vet content like Maelstrom with this increased curse.

Urzigurumash

Thank you very much for removing the hidden cooldown from Dead Water's Guile. This will substantially help the set fulfill its intended purpose.

SickleCider

My Thrassian Stranglers are going straight in the bin and I'm not farming anymore Mythic items if this goes live. I can't trust it. Utter disrespect of my time.

ColoniaCroisant

Shadow of Red Mountain set
I'm a bit disappointed by this change to a higher damage proc with a longer 8second cool down. The fast proc of the 2 second cool down offered a refreshing change of pace to the set that is now not as interesting. I did test it and found it to do slightly more damage on my build but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention preferring the previous 6.1 version.

Celestro

Storm Master retaining its proc condition on Heavy attacks that deal critical damage is still a bit of outlier. Its "fine enough" if it procs off Heavy attacks in general despite the unfavorful nature of performing them between the slowness in their execution and the DPS loss associated with them, given at least the subsequent Heavy attacks will be buffed unlike the set's previous version that only "buffed" Light attacks as long as you maintain the uptime. Having to do so with the possibly of not landing a critical hit doesn't allow the proc to be maintained, unlike many of the sets that have been revised during this update.

This is worsened by the fact that its bonus to Light and Heavy attacks is lower than that of Undaunted Infiltrator and Unweaver, whose only condition is to use an ability with a resource opposite of those that would typically wear the set, being Magicka and Stamina respectively. Whether those skills are simply resource dumping skills or actual damaging skills, which results in lower DPS than usual, their proc is still guaranteed with no possibility of failing unlike Storm Master. Changing it to procing off just Heavy attacking, which similarly results in a DPS loss, would result in its current numbers being justified. Otherwise, I dont feel its entirely outlandish to suggest the boost needs to be increased, perhaps even above that of the Noble Duelist's set (another Light and Heavy attack boosting set with a guaranteed condition, albeit more difficult to pull off than the Undaunted sets).

YandereGirlfriend

Sadly, these Week 3 patch notes are usually the ones we get stuck with. The other two weeks are just for window-dressing.

So that means that these beyond-shambolic Thrassian changes are almost certain to go through. It would almost be palatable without the damage shield nerf and without nerfing base HP amounts (which, as others have pointed out, yields an ~8-9k HP penalty rather than the stated 6k) and instead nerfing buffed HP amounts. Oh, and without 50 stacks. So really then, maybe not so palatable after all.

Question though: what is meant when it says that Storm Master "no longer works with Overload"? Does that mean that it no longer procs from Overload or that it no longer buffs Overload light and heavy attacks or does it mean that it no longer works in either case?

fboostb16_ESO

Here's a simple idea for Thrassian Stranglers:
Keep the set exactly as it is on live (20 stacks 3K dmg), but make the bonus dependent on group size. 1-3 people: full dmg buff, 4-9 people: half dmg buff, 10 or more people: quarter dmg buff. Keep the debuff exectly as it is on live in all cases and keep the stack size and count like they are on live. You get to where PTS is now, but the set would be useful in all content. You can't nerf a set only because of trial performance. Trials are such a small part of the player's experience and the debuff won't bring more people in.

Soullise

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for existing item sets. For feedback on the new item sets, please visit this thread. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

Please, do not nerf False Gods. I am sure you have read our arguments. They're exponentially better than yours for nerfing it.

Luvtrain

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Onefrkncrzypope

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

WrathOfInnos

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Onefrkncrzypope

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.