PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Existing Item Sets

heaven13 · July 2020

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

@WrathOfInnos is correct. VO has two 5-pc bonuses and normal False God's mirrors this which is perfectly acceptable because they require similar effort.

As for VO being underpowered...VO isn't considered BiS because stam have less problems with sustain compared to magicka. Stamina also have a lot more options for decent sets, compared to magicka sets.

IonicKai · July 2020

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

You said VO is underpowered but you support making false gods worse than VO and PFG (a perfected set!!!!) As weak as VO which again in your own words is underpowered???!

Thanks for further fueling the argument that the nerf doesn't make sense....

ACamaroGuy · July 2020

I love Vicious Ophidian. I wish they would give it a buff and make it viable again.

Andraste · July 2020

Prayer Shawl - this might be a bit of a nit-pick request, but I think having a 1 second cooldown rather than a 2 second cooldown (adjust the size of the damage shield as appropriate) would be a big improvement for this set. With the current 2-second cooldown on the PTS, you are basically playing roulette with which one of your 4 person party is unshielded at any given time, which makes it feel unpredictable

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

IonicKai wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

You said VO is underpowered but you support making false gods worse than VO and PFG (a perfected set!!!!) As weak as VO which again in your own words is underpowered???!

Thanks for further fueling the argument that the nerf doesn't make sense....

Worse than vo? The same as vo. VO is compared to quick serpent. Spin all you want but in the end it had two stat lines as a perfected. It wasn't in line with any other perfected. You lossed 1k mag. The set still does the same thing as before but with what 3% or less dps? Please the nerf was warranted your love of one stat line is bizzare.

Wolf81 · July 2020

Has anyone test out ilambris monster on ptr please...specifically in regards to magcro since they changed the monster set from direct damage to damage over time I'm hearing it works stronger now at least for that class..plus curious if the damage over time moves if the mob does or not. Rapid Rot was guessing affects it

IonicKai · July 2020

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

You said VO is underpowered but you support making false gods worse than VO and PFG (a perfected set!!!!) As weak as VO which again in your own words is underpowered???!

Thanks for further fueling the argument that the nerf doesn't make sense....

Worse than vo? The same as vo. VO is compared to quick serpent. Spin all you want but in the end it had two stat lines as a perfected. It wasn't in line with any other perfected. You lossed 1k mag. The set still does the same thing as before but with what 3% or less dps? Please the nerf was warranted your love of one stat line is bizzare.

Regular false gods is losing a line of spell damage to make it worse than VO and perfected false gods is losing a line of Magicka which costs approximately 108 effective spell damage. That's not a trivial nerf and only serves to punish those that play mag dps. PFG being competitive DPS wise while offering sustain is what made it so desired. Regular false gods being a VO equivalent meant that the bar for getting into harder content was reasonable for most players. The level of effort to achieve capable (false gods) and competitive (PFG which can be beat out now in certain situations where siroria is possible) made sense with the sets as is.

WrathOfInnos · July 2020

I was just thinking more about the Netch’s Touch and Ysgramor sets. They did not receive a magnitude buff to match War Maiden (600 Spell Damage), but doing so would still give poor results because there are so few sources of Lightning and Frost damage on DPS builds, even for Sorcerers and Wardens.

So I had an idea, what if Netch and Ysgramor didn’t operate like Silks of the Sun and War Maiden. Instead these 2 sets could mirror Burning Spellweave. They would proc on the use of Shock or Frost damage, give a ~500 Spell Damage buff to all skills for 8s with a 12s cooldown, and apply the Concussion or Chilled status effect. That way a Lightning or Frost build could use a thematically appropriate set, without it feeling wasted on non-elemental skills like Deep Fissure, Daedric Prey, Crystal Fragments, Fetcher, Bear etc. It could match BSW’s new 490 value, or be slightly higher given than Concussion and Chill are typically less valuable than Burning for a damage dealer.

I think this would appropriately balance these sets, which are underperforming on PTS and live, without needing to increase their Spell Damage for a single element to something extreme like 800-100 (which would probably cause a new set of issues on niche builds like Overload gankers and BG Frost CC spammers).

Edit: To avoid every Sorc and Warden still choosing BSW over Netch and Ysgramor for the Burning, they probably should be just slightly stronger, either by giving ~30 more Spell Damage while active or by having a decreased cooldown (Warden rotation works well with a 12s cooldown, but Sorc could synergize better with a proc that was 7s with a 10s cooldown).

Jodynn · July 2020

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I was just thinking more about the Netch’s Touch and Ysgramor sets. They did not receive a magnitude buff to match War Maiden (600 Spell Damage), but doing so would still give poor results because there are so few sources of Lightning and Frost damage on DPS builds, even for Sorcerers and Wardens.

So I had an idea, what if Netch and Ysgramor didn’t operate like Silks of the Sun and War Maiden. Instead these 2 sets could mirror Burning Spellweave. They would proc on the use of Shock or Frost damage, give a ~500 Spell Damage buff to all skills for 8s with a 12s cooldown, and apply the Concussion or Chilled status effect. That way a Lightning or Frost build could use a thematically appropriate set, without it feeling wasted on non-elemental skills like Deep Fissure, Daedric Prey, Crystal Fragments, Fetcher, Bear etc. It could match BSW’s new 490 value, or be slightly higher given than Concussion and Chill are typically less valuable than Burning for a damage dealer.

I think this would appropriately balance these sets, which are underperforming on PTS and live, without needing to increase their Spell Damage for a single element to something extreme like 800-100 (which would probably cause a new set of issues on niche builds like Overload gankers and BG Frost CC spammers).

I like this change.

If they change the cooldown to something more useful, 9 or 10.

Currently BSW is underperforming even less than scathing on a magDK which is at it's strongest.

DUTCH_REAPER · July 2020

Caalurions needs to have the crit requirement removed. as of now only magblades will continue to use this set. when u had the crit requirement removed any mag class could now use the set and time a burst attack on a target. stamina classes have so many hard hitting proc sets that go off that do not reuqire a crit to use. if you want magic classes to have more choices and variuation then remove the crit requirement. otherwise change the name from caalurion legacy to Magic Nb set only.

BohnT2 · July 2020

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Caalurions needs to have the crit requirement removed. as of now only magblades will continue to use this set. when u had the crit requirement removed any mag class could now use the set and time a burst attack on a target. stamina classes have so many hard hitting proc sets that go off that do not reuqire a crit to use. if you want magic classes to have more choices and variuation then remove the crit requirement. otherwise change the name from caalurion legacy to Magic Nb set only.

No, the set was completely overperforming with it offering 20k TT damage every 10 seconds that was further buffed by Malacath.

It's already powerful in terms of burst damage but how it was on PTS was way, way too much

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

IonicKai wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

You said VO is underpowered but you support making false gods worse than VO and PFG (a perfected set!!!!) As weak as VO which again in your own words is underpowered???!

Thanks for further fueling the argument that the nerf doesn't make sense....

Worse than vo? The same as vo. VO is compared to quick serpent. Spin all you want but in the end it had two stat lines as a perfected. It wasn't in line with any other perfected. You lossed 1k mag. The set still does the same thing as before but with what 3% or less dps? Please the nerf was warranted your love of one stat line is bizzare.

Regular false gods is losing a line of spell damage to make it worse than VO and perfected false gods is losing a line of Magicka which costs approximately 108 effective spell damage. That's not a trivial nerf and only serves to punish those that play mag dps. PFG being competitive DPS wise while offering sustain is what made it so desired. Regular false gods being a VO equivalent meant that the bar for getting into harder content was reasonable for most players. The level of effort to achieve capable (false gods) and competitive (PFG which can be beat out now in certain situations where siroria is possible) made sense with the sets as is.

yeah regular false gods is worse than vo.... regular false gods is now equivalent to quick serpent. PFG = VO.

Stam lost a quarter of its damage on its strongest set, without B4B many mag classes can't sustain their normal DD kits, ZoS focusing on only one set(thrassians) instead of all the class balance neglect and y'all worried about 108 spell Damage? MMO set metas change deal with it.

DUTCH_REAPER · July 2020

BohnT2 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Caalurions needs to have the crit requirement removed. as of now only magblades will continue to use this set. when u had the crit requirement removed any mag class could now use the set and time a burst attack on a target. stamina classes have so many hard hitting proc sets that go off that do not reuqire a crit to use. if you want magic classes to have more choices and variuation then remove the crit requirement. otherwise change the name from caalurion legacy to Magic Nb set only.

No, the set was completely overperforming with it offering 20k TT damage every 10 seconds that was further buffed by Malacath.

It's already powerful in terms of burst damage but how it was on PTS was way, way too much

if you are saying the damage is to high then lower the damage but remove the crit requirement. only mnb use this set currenlty in pvp because of that. Or change malacath to not affect proc sets but regardless remove the proc crit requirement. I dont see anyone calling for stam sets with high damage to have a crit requirement. Thats because only nbs can use them. it is niche.

edited- no caal proc in pvp against a target has ever been or ever will be 20k man

Kungfu · July 2020

I think it's very important to make sure we all remove ourselves from what WE run and try our best to look objectively at options.

Surely an honest stam player can admit that there are far more proc set options out there for dealing instant damage than there are for mag sets? There is not yet a 1:1 ratio on those options. Hopefully ZOS is aiming for this to happen.

But Caalurion's has never hit me for more than 7-8k in PVP to date. Let's make sure we're not doing damage to dummies and calling it PVP damage values. Similarly, if you've built as a glass cannon (I'd classify this as 20k or less resistance)...

I guess I'm just saying: let's try our best to be objective here and to make sure we're comparing apples to apples.

TO be clear: I am magplar. I don't run Caalurion's. But I do feel like mag is limited in proc sets when compared to the list that's available for stam proc damage.

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

@WrathOfInnos is correct. VO has two 5-pc bonuses and normal False God's mirrors this which is perfectly acceptable because they require similar effort.

As for VO being underpowered...VO isn't considered BiS because stam have less problems with sustain compared to magicka. Stamina also have a lot more options for decent sets, compared to magicka sets.

IonicKai · July 2020

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

@WrathOfInnos is correct. VO has two 5-pc bonuses and normal False God's mirrors this which is perfectly acceptable because they require similar effort.

As for VO being underpowered...VO isn't considered BiS because stam have less problems with sustain compared to magicka. Stamina also have a lot more options for decent sets, compared to magicka sets.

In what world is that balanced... As stated multiple times ZOS saying that VO is perfected quick serpent is absolute nonsense. If the crag sets that drop from all three are supposed to be perfected versions of other sets in crag trials then where are the other ones? Where's "perfected" twice fang? Where's perfected AY? That hole in their argument makes it obvious that ZOS just wanted to nerf players and it has nothing to do with standards.

For the last few years now (supposedly current standards) perfected has meant drops from vet or vet hm. VO comes from normal. False gods comes from normal. They match this is logical. False gods has a perfected version (because all the sets in VSS do). That should be better than regular false gods (incentive to run vet). The one line mag in addition accomplished this quite nicely without being overpowered. It was BiS only because sustain in this game is awful (it was better with bfb but they are destroying that too) because they keep nerfing it and because siroria was frustrating to use in content where you needed high mobility (fixed with current PTS proposed changes).

This isn't balance because of standards it's nerfing players and disrespecting effort put in. I'm not against the meta changing I'm against crippling a set because it was being used. It sets a bad precedent. How about instead they buff alternatives to make them more enticing because all they are doing right now is widening player skill gap and hurting people who put in effort.

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

IonicKai wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Luvtrain wrote: »

I'll just be the 2,325th person to say it but, don't nerf False Gods Devotion. As stated before if you want to compare it to VO give it a buff and only have it drop from bosses in vet Craglorn trials then leave False Gods alone. vAA, vSO, and vHRC are not remotely as difficult as vSS AND VO drops from all three of the trials. Heck, it drops from the NORMAL VERSION OF THESE TRIALS. If you really want to compare the two, let perfected False Gods drop in normal Sunspire. No reason for this asides from giving a nerf to an overused set.

Y'all pfg ppl need to read. They didn't compare pfg to vo they compared VO to serpent. PFG had two bonuses as a perfected set. Name another perfect set that does that? They took a whopping single mag line off this set. That 100 spell damage. The set still does what it meant to do.

PFGD did not have two Perfected bonuses, it gained only 1096 Max Mag compared to the normal version, just like other perfected sets. The normal version gave 8% cost reduction + 129 Spell Damage, which was mirroring VO.

Quick Serpent is an underpowered set that nobody uses. 8% cost reduction is very low, offering about half the sustain of other 5pc set bonuses (Lich and Magnus), unless enemies are constantly dying. The additional stat line was intended to offset the weakness of this cost reduction, and allow the set to be used in content other than arenas and trash pulls.

Yes it did. They just had FG with a perfected line too.

VO is an underpowered set that barely anyone uses.

@WrathOfInnos is correct. VO has two 5-pc bonuses and normal False God's mirrors this which is perfectly acceptable because they require similar effort.

As for VO being underpowered...VO isn't considered BiS because stam have less problems with sustain compared to magicka. Stamina also have a lot more options for decent sets, compared to magicka sets.

In what world is that balanced... As stated multiple times ZOS saying that VO is perfected quick serpent is absolute nonsense. If the crag sets that drop from all three are supposed to be perfected versions of other sets in crag trials then where are the other ones? Where's "perfected" twice fang? Where's perfected AY? That hole in their argument makes it obvious that ZOS just wanted to nerf players and it has nothing to do with standards.

For the last few years now (supposedly current standards) perfected has meant drops from vet or vet hm. VO comes from normal. False gods comes from normal. They match this is logical. False gods has a perfected version (because all the sets in VSS do). That should be better than regular false gods (incentive to run vet). The one line mag in addition accomplished this quite nicely without being overpowered. It was BiS only because sustain in this game is awful (it was better with bfb but they are destroying that too) because they keep nerfing it and because siroria was frustrating to use in content where you needed high mobility (fixed with current PTS proposed changes).

This isn't balance because of standards it's nerfing players and disrespecting effort put in. I'm not against the meta changing I'm against crippling a set because it was being used. It sets a bad precedent. How about instead they buff alternatives to make them more enticing because all they are doing right now is widening player skill gap and hurting people who put in effort.

It's bis because of the sustain in the game. You know you still have the untouched 5 piece effect right?

I'm fine with vo dropping only in vet crag.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2020

As I have said elsewhere, I feel like the Morag change is good in theory, terrible in practice. It's exclusively buffing the ever-loving hell out of Stamcro and Stamblade to the detriment of Stam Sorc and Stamplar, which are seeing a lot of viability and usefulness in the current PTS climate. It's just going to restrict the meta. Poison damage is fine and reasonably balanced on a set, Disease, not so much. It should be a class-exclusive buff/debuff, not tacked onto a set that a support can run. Restricting viability at the top-end will inevitably trickle down regardless of skill level, which we've seen time and time again. Not saying a disease damage ramp is bad or has no place, but lazily throwing it on Morag is the wrong way to handle it.

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

As I have said elsewhere, I feel like the Morag change is good in theory, terrible in practice. It's exclusively buffing the ever-loving hell out of Stamcro and Stamblade to the detriment of Stam Sorc and Stamplar, which are seeing a lot of viability and usefulness in the current PTS climate. It's just going to restrict the meta. Poison damage is fine and reasonably balanced on a set, Disease, not so much. It should be a class-exclusive buff/debuff, not tacked onto a set that a support can run. Restricting viability at the top-end will inevitably trickle down regardless of skill level, which we've seen time and time again. Not saying a disease damage ramp is bad or has no place, but lazily throwing it on Morag is the wrong way to handle it.

If Morag tong excludes the top Stam dps then people won't use it. Why would they? Even if it's a class exclusive ZoS always still includes a set that can replace that buff. There is even a set for battle roar.

Yes there are outliers leave me alone.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2020

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

As I have said elsewhere, I feel like the Morag change is good in theory, terrible in practice. It's exclusively buffing the ever-loving hell out of Stamcro and Stamblade to the detriment of Stam Sorc and Stamplar, which are seeing a lot of viability and usefulness in the current PTS climate. It's just going to restrict the meta. Poison damage is fine and reasonably balanced on a set, Disease, not so much. It should be a class-exclusive buff/debuff, not tacked onto a set that a support can run. Restricting viability at the top-end will inevitably trickle down regardless of skill level, which we've seen time and time again. Not saying a disease damage ramp is bad or has no place, but lazily throwing it on Morag is the wrong way to handle it.

If Morag tong excludes the top Stam dps then people won't use it. Why would they? Even if it's a class exclusive ZoS always still includes a set that can replace that buff. There is even a set for battle roar.

Yes there are outliers leave me alone.

Currently it doesn't necessarily exclude anyone on live. Everyone has some form of poison damage. The issue is the disease change literally ramps Necro and Stamblade exclusively.

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

As I have said elsewhere, I feel like the Morag change is good in theory, terrible in practice. It's exclusively buffing the ever-loving hell out of Stamcro and Stamblade to the detriment of Stam Sorc and Stamplar, which are seeing a lot of viability and usefulness in the current PTS climate. It's just going to restrict the meta. Poison damage is fine and reasonably balanced on a set, Disease, not so much. It should be a class-exclusive buff/debuff, not tacked onto a set that a support can run. Restricting viability at the top-end will inevitably trickle down regardless of skill level, which we've seen time and time again. Not saying a disease damage ramp is bad or has no place, but lazily throwing it on Morag is the wrong way to handle it.

If Morag tong excludes the top Stam dps then people won't use it. Why would they? Even if it's a class exclusive ZoS always still includes a set that can replace that buff. There is even a set for battle roar.

Yes there are outliers leave me alone.

Currently it doesn't necessarily exclude anyone on live. Everyone has some form of poison damage. The issue is the disease change literally ramps Necro and Stamblade exclusively.

Stamplars and stamsorcs?

It didn't remove poison damage it added disease damage. It's a buff.

DUTCH_REAPER · July 2020

Flame blossom needs a buff in damage and a quicker travel time. Reduce time down from 1s please.

Firstmep · July 2020

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Caalurions needs to have the crit requirement removed. as of now only magblades will continue to use this set. when u had the crit requirement removed any mag class could now use the set and time a burst attack on a target. stamina classes have so many hard hitting proc sets that go off that do not reuqire a crit to use. if you want magic classes to have more choices and variuation then remove the crit requirement. otherwise change the name from caalurion legacy to Magic Nb set only.

No, the set was completely overperforming with it offering 20k TT damage every 10 seconds that was further buffed by Malacath.

It's already powerful in terms of burst damage but how it was on PTS was way, way too much

if you are saying the damage is to high then lower the damage but remove the crit requirement. only mnb use this set currenlty in pvp because of that. Or change malacath to not affect proc sets but regardless remove the proc crit requirement. I dont see anyone calling for stam sets with high damage to have a crit requirement. Thats because only nbs can use them. it is niche.

edited- no caal proc in pvp against a target has ever been or ever will be 20k man

Not true.
A lot of ppl use this set on ranged Templar, and even some sorcs(no cp).
They buffed the dmg of it by10% and made it much easier to land on pts, it doesn't need any more buffs.

Jodynn · July 2020

Thrassian Stranglers
With Major Sorcery and Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl, and arcane ( although I'd probably use bloodthirsty ) on a MagDK

So if you have 50 stacks which is hard as hell in trial, but let's just assume real quick you do.

Sacrifice a 5 piece or monster set ( here I sacrificed a monster set )
Lose ~6,000 Magicka
Lose around 1,000 Health and 3.53 crit ( assuming monster set route ) or around 2,000 Health
Gain 1,000 spell damage (slightly more if templar in group )

So you net gain around 400 spell damage.. which is about equal to a monster set or a 5 piece bonus.. so you're gaining.. Nothing and losing health.

Edit: Also less sustain ( lesser magicka pool ) and lost damage while building stacks assuming you can.

YandereGirlfriend · July 2020

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO That's basically QED on the uselessness of the new Thrassians.

Hopefully the developers will see your post and go back to the drawing board.

Vordac · July 2020

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO - all of this ignoring the fact that the set, when built to compensate for the curse, requires an investment of 'effective sd/wd' in the form of max mag/stam until you get the 50 kills. With all benefits lost on death, the investment is too high to warrant the curse. If the devs want only a small bonus relative to other similar sets while maintaining that high stack threshold, they should just do away with the curse aspect altogether and make it something like 10 wd/sd per stack. Alternatively do away with the stack aspect and just give us the net gains/losses permanently while equipped to make a true bubble cannon. That latter is seemingly what they are balancing around (divines forbid people build to negate the curse and get some benefit) so just get rid of the middleman......

At this point, I'll probable only run this only on my ww dd so the passives can counter some of the deficits while making the most of the buff.

Some other suggestions:

let it buff substantially, but distribute a lesser version of the curse to other players as well to limit stacking of the curse.
Use a similar mechanic to the tzogvin bonus. At set stack numbers, gain minor buffs while stacks exceed that value. You could use the set provided by trickery as a lazy model......something to provide some feel of power without drastically pushing the power curve like its original implementation did. This could be used to fine tune the curse aspect by including minor debuffs.

Czekoludek · July 2020

Why not left the oryginal design but with different values? Max 10 stacks, 80 wd/sd per stack, 2% more damage taken per stack. 800 spell/weapon damage for one set piece taken + 20% more damage taken is good trade off. Really powerful set without being stupidly op like 3k sd was

HalfDragoness · August 2020

I posted this elsewhere but it is also relevant here

HalfDragoness wrote: »

I realy enjoy playing characters with the stranglers, as they are currently They're really fun for solo play and they're enjoyable in vet dungeons. Personally I'd just never wear them in a trial because I'd hate to be a liability. However I udnerstand that there are a lot of people who would use them in trials to maximise their damage.

My initial reaction to their current modifications is that when the debuffs become fixed numbers rather than percentages (and with the addition of weapon damage) this vastly favours medium armor stamina builds over magicka light armor builds, and this feels unfair. If the stranglers will now benefit stamina and magicka dps, the debuffs should not favour one build over the other.

If I understand correctly, the devs don't want stranglers to become essential to meta damage builds. IIf this is the case then the stranglers should have debuffs against group play but they should still be fun for solo content and useable in dungeons.

Make Thrassians Penalise an Entire Group

Suggestion One
What I would like to suggest it that instead of all the penalty falling on the wearer, the penalty could be more like the weapon overload mechanic in Cloudrest, where, if you have multiple people in the same group within 50ft of each other who are wearing the stranglers all wearers take damage per second based on how many stacks of the sloads call they have.
Damage would be calculated so that in a trial group it's safest to have only one player wearing the stranglers, but you can have a maximum of two, but this will kep your healers very occupied especially if both players have maximum stacks.

Suggestion Two
Or it could be that everyone in the same group as someone wearing stranglers takes damage per second based on the amount of sloads call stacks, which can be healed in veteran trial content if you have 4-6 players wearing stranglers but that all group memebers (including those not wearing them) will take damage x the total amount of sloads call stacks in the group.
e.g. 1 sloads call stack = 10 damage per second, per group memeber
One player wearing stranglers: At 50 sloads call stacks all group members take 500 damage per second
Two players: With both at 50 stacks all group members take 1000 damage per second
Six players: With all at 50 stacks all group members take 3000 damage per second (unfeasable in most veteran content)

With this penality coordinated trial teams could still have two players wearing stranglers but could organize themselves so that either, both players try to hover around having 25 stacks, or that they alternate who has max stacks. E.g. P1 wear them from the start, at around 20 -25 stacks P2 puts theirs on. P1 gets to 50 stacks, then crouches to cleanse themselves. P2 is at 25 stacks, P1 is at 0, when P2 gets to 50 stacks they crouch to cleanse themselves, P1 is at 25 stacks again, and so on...

Suggestion Three
The stranglers have some other kind of debuff that stacks with itself so that the more players in a group wearing the stranglers the worse the debuff will be.E.g.
Wearing the stranglers lowers all group mmebers health by 500. (two or more players wearing stranglers would counter the Ebon Armory buff)

Wearing the stranglers causes all group memebers to recieve 0.25% less healing per stack of sloads call. (One player with max stacks means whoe group takes 12.5% less healing. Four players with max stacks means whole group takes 50% less healing)

Wearing the stranglers causes unstable magic energy in a 2-15ft circle around you. This damages group members with unblockable oblivion damage, both the damage and the circle size increase with more stacks. If multiple players in the group are wearing the stranglers and their circles overlap this multiples the damage.

You get the idea...

Firstmep · August 2020

HalfDragoness wrote: »

I posted this elsewhere but it is also relevant here

HalfDragoness wrote: »

I realy enjoy playing characters with the stranglers, as they are currently They're really fun for solo play and they're enjoyable in vet dungeons. Personally I'd just never wear them in a trial because I'd hate to be a liability. However I udnerstand that there are a lot of people who would use them in trials to maximise their damage.

My initial reaction to their current modifications is that when the debuffs become fixed numbers rather than percentages (and with the addition of weapon damage) this vastly favours medium armor stamina builds over magicka light armor builds, and this feels unfair. If the stranglers will now benefit stamina and magicka dps, the debuffs should not favour one build over the other.

If I understand correctly, the devs don't want stranglers to become essential to meta damage builds. IIf this is the case then the stranglers should have debuffs against group play but they should still be fun for solo content and useable in dungeons.

Make Thrassians Penalise an Entire Group

Suggestion One
What I would like to suggest it that instead of all the penalty falling on the wearer, the penalty could be more like the weapon overload mechanic in Cloudrest, where, if you have multiple people in the same group within 50ft of each other who are wearing the stranglers all wearers take damage per second based on how many stacks of the sloads call they have.
Damage would be calculated so that in a trial group it's safest to have only one player wearing the stranglers, but you can have a maximum of two, but this will kep your healers very occupied especially if both players have maximum stacks.

Suggestion Two
Or it could be that everyone in the same group as someone wearing stranglers takes damage per second based on the amount of sloads call stacks, which can be healed in veteran trial content if you have 4-6 players wearing stranglers but that all group memebers (including those not wearing them) will take damage x the total amount of sloads call stacks in the group.
e.g. 1 sloads call stack = 10 damage per second, per group memeber
One player wearing stranglers: At 50 sloads call stacks all group members take 500 damage per second
Two players: With both at 50 stacks all group members take 1000 damage per second
Six players: With all at 50 stacks all group members take 3000 damage per second (unfeasable in most veteran content)

With this penality coordinated trial teams could still have two players wearing stranglers but could organize themselves so that either, both players try to hover around having 25 stacks, or that they alternate who has max stacks. E.g. P1 wear them from the start, at around 20 -25 stacks P2 puts theirs on. P1 gets to 50 stacks, then crouches to cleanse themselves. P2 is at 25 stacks, P1 is at 0, when P2 gets to 50 stacks they crouch to cleanse themselves, P1 is at 25 stacks again, and so on...

Suggestion Three
The stranglers have some other kind of debuff that stacks with itself so that the more players in a group wearing the stranglers the worse the debuff will be.E.g.
Wearing the stranglers lowers all group mmebers health by 500. (two or more players wearing stranglers would counter the Ebon Armory buff)

Wearing the stranglers causes all group memebers to recieve 0.25% less healing per stack of sloads call. (One player with max stacks means whoe group takes 12.5% less healing. Four players with max stacks means whole group takes 50% less healing)

Wearing the stranglers causes unstable magic energy in a 2-15ft circle around you. This damages group members with unblockable oblivion damage, both the damage and the circle size increase with more stacks. If multiple players in the group are wearing the stranglers and their circles overlap this multiples the damage.

You get the idea...

Nah, just make it so that other players can't heal you when you have stacks, that all the anti group solution you need.
No need for complicated mechanics.
Also they should change the stacks condition to crit hits, and reduce the negative impact.
Then you can give the stacks a really short duration, and when you reach max stacks you gain double duration but you can't refresh it.
It worked for the previously overperforming wpd sets, it would work for strangers.

universal_wrath · August 2020

Storm master should deal shock damage instead of just adding damge.

Storm fist first piece just give physical and spell paneteration because it deals hybrid damage, so it does get a hybrid offensive stats.

Red mountain should deal AOE damage or some sort of bursting damage to closest enemey, it is a volcano that shoots magma by the divines.

Ashen grip deals fire damage but it gives stamina oriented stat, can you make it daul stats or change the fire to poison?

Draugrkin and rattlecage are outdated sets, both need rework like medusa.

Oblivion edge 5 piece bonus is underwhelming.

Night mother gaze set used to give both major fracure and breach, now it only give major fracture, why?

Draugr rest healing pool should spawn on the person doing thr heavy attack, not the target. Why would I have sttack for distance just to run to melee range to get heals?

Can you make twilight remedy affect the wearer? Also, can you make moondancer have both boons active if you activate multiple synrgies, instead of overriding each other.

Innate axiom only give 400 weapon/spell damage to class abilities, and adopt rider last bonus is useless to say the least.

Night mother embrace last piece is underwhelming.

Savage werewolf eed effect deals too little damage.

Embershield deals too little damge and give little resistance, remove resistance and buff damage.

Thus is all I could think of, sorry for long post.