PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Existing Item Sets

YandereGirlfriend

@universal_wrath Draugrkin is definitely NOT an out-dated set! It only came out like five months ago and is very strong if you build for it.

I do agree with Innate Axiom though and I have no idea why it is not at the 600-level (or at least 500!) of the other buffed sets. Developers seemed to forget that it existed or that it doesn't actually buff Light Attacks either, which seemed to be the sole criterion that they used for determining which of those sets to buff.

universal_wrath

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

@universal_wrath Draugrkin is definitely NOT an out-dated set! It only came out like five months ago and is very strong if you build for it.

I do agree with Innate Axiom though and I have no idea why it is not at the 600-level (or at least 500!) of the other buffed sets. Developers seemed to forget that it existed or that it doesn't actually buff Light Attacks either, which seemed to be the sole criterion that they used for determining which of those sets to buff.

My bad، I meant dreugh king from fungul grotto. Draugrkin as you have said is fairly new and strong in PvP. I should probably include viper sting since it is outdated and has a very small tooltip in comparison to other proc sets like sheer venom.

Both rattle cage and dreugh king as well as other sets like vampire cloak and order of diagna has been around since game launched and never been touched, medusa change is great and can bring about these old sets to light and maybe people would use them.

I hope I cleared the misunderstanding.

Celestro

universal_wrath wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

@universal_wrath Draugrkin is definitely NOT an out-dated set! It only came out like five months ago and is very strong if you build for it.

I do agree with Innate Axiom though and I have no idea why it is not at the 600-level (or at least 500!) of the other buffed sets. Developers seemed to forget that it existed or that it doesn't actually buff Light Attacks either, which seemed to be the sole criterion that they used for determining which of those sets to buff.

My bad، I meant dreugh king from fungul grotto. Draugrkin as you have said is fairly new and strong in PvP. I should probably include viper sting since it is outdated and has a very small tooltip in comparison to other proc sets like sheer venom.

Both rattle cage and dreugh king as well as other sets like vampire cloak and order of diagna has been around since game launched and never been touched, medusa change is great and can bring about these old sets to light and maybe people would use them.

I hope I cleared the misunderstanding.

The thing with Dreugh King is that it has the Major Expedition bonus on it upon killing an enemy, so I think that's why it wasn't changed in a similar fashion to Rattlecage. But I'm sure the majority of people would opt for that to be changed for additional Weapon Damage on the 5 piece bonus.

Also, as much as I dislike Storm Master losing its ligjtning based theme, I am fond of its bonus being more workable and substantial for Stam DD. The most advantageous thing about the older version was afflicting Concussed, which I believe they should add in in some kind of fashion for Light/Heavy Attacks, given the set's name just doesn't have any sort of justice presently. That and changing the still terrible proc from critical damage with Heavy Attacks to just Heavy Attacks at the bare minimum or critical damage dealt with either would make more sense.

Most everything else I agree on though, definitely.

dhoward5b14_ESO

The reduction of Gossamer from 2s to 1s is an unfortunate change. I currently use the set infrequently but I think it is useful in cases where people are spread out and I have a HOT on them. However, only stationary heals like Illustrious or Budding Seeds tick every second,. Other HOTs only apply every 2s (Radiating, Ritual, ..) and will cause Gossamer to only be active half the time. With this change the few places I use it now would shrink to almost none.

YandereGirlfriend

IIRC, you can use Blood Fountain and the Lifesteal will give you 100% Gossamer uptime provided that your DPS keep constant damage on the boss (or players in the case of PvP).

Jaraal

Celestro wrote: »

The thing with Dreugh King is that it has the Major Expedition bonus on it upon killing an enemy, so I think that's why it wasn't changed in a similar fashion to Rattlecage. But I'm sure the majority of people would opt for that to be changed for additional Weapon Damage on the 5 piece bonus.

The Major Expedition proc is the primary reason I use this set, although perma Major Brutality is nice for some builds that don't have ready access to it. The speed boost is great in situations where you are killing quickly in volume, such as public dungeons, delves, or farming overland trash for antiquity leads, etc. I was quite disappointed when they nerfed the duration from 20 seconds to 8. Why they wanted to load up the servers with data calls from people spamming Rapids and other speed buffs with shortened durations is beyond me.... but it is what it is.

Olupajmibanan

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IIRC, you can use Blood Fountain and the Lifesteal will give you 100% Gossamer uptime provided that your DPS keep constant damage on the boss (or players in the case of PvP).

I fear that it might end in situation where you will have 0 effective uptime:
you get damage -> you get heal -> you gain major evasion for 1 second -> major evasion ends -> you get damage

Can't think of other encounter than lord Falgravn execute where players get damage often enough to make Gossamer usable. If they don't allow the set to proc from overheals, no bright future awaits the set.

rumple9

stygian jewellery needs to be made Arcane rather than Robust

opaj

Has there been answer as to why some damage/skill-type buff sets have been increased do grant 600 damage, while others have been ignored? I haven't seen any developer response to this and, given the standardization we're seeing in other areas, I'm kind of confused as to what's going on here.

Damage-Type Sets that Were Buffed:
Swamp Raider (Poison/Disease)
Sword Singer (Two-Handed Weapons)
War Maiden (Magic)
Light Speaker (Restoration Staff)
Spider Cultist (Destruction Staff)
Sword Dancer (Dual Wielding)
Knight-Errant's Mail (One-Handed and Shield) - This one got a buff, though obviously not to 600


Damage-Type Sets that Were NOT Buffed:
Strength of the Automaton (Physical)
Silks of the Sun (Fire)
Netch's Touch (Lightning)
Ysgramor's Birthright (Frost)
Spelunker (Undaunted)
Innate Axiom (Class)

There's been some back-and-forth arguments about whether this was intended or not, but I'd really like to hear the reasoning from the horse's mouth in this case.

Celestro

opaj wrote: »

Has there been answer as to why some damage/skill-type buff sets have been increased do grant 600 damage, while others have been ignored? I haven't seen any developer response to this and, given the standardization we're seeing in other areas, I'm kind of confused as to what's going on here.

Damage-Type Sets that Were Buffed:
Swamp Raider (Poison/Disease)
Sword Singer (Two-Handed Weapons)
War Maiden (Magic)
Light Speaker (Restoration Staff)
Spider Cultist (Destruction Staff)
Sword Dancer (Dual Wielding)
Knight-Errant's Mail (One-Handed and Shield) - This one got a buff, though obviously not to 600


Damage-Type Sets that Were NOT Buffed:
Strength of the Automaton (Physical)
Silks of the Sun (Fire)
Netch's Touch (Lightning)
Ysgramor's Birthright (Frost)
Spelunker (Undaunted)
Innate Axiom (Class)

There's been some back-and-forth arguments about whether this was intended or not, but I'd really like to hear the reasoning from the horse's mouth in this case.

I don't imagine anything will be said on it. There's like a 99% chance that the most likely reason ties into that some of those unbuffed sets will affect Light and Heavy attacks while those buffed sets will not. Spelunker's bonus was changed altogether while Innate Axiom, in my opinion, should be buffed becauss it doesn't affect the aforementioned Light and Heavy attacks.

Realistically though, I still feel like the first four unbuffed sets listed could be brought up to 450 at the least. When only Hunding's and Julianos were the go to, they were decently for the specs that could use them, being primarily Stamsorc with Automaton and MagDK with Silks (well it previous Health bonus didn't make as much of a go to), that made sense but not as much anymore when there are now plenty of conditional and limited sets that increase WD/SD to higher amounts. It still leaves these sets behind too much.

Cinbri

You can instantly proc Acuity set now by casting Backlash but Acuity is 5s while Backlash is 6s so it kill interaction of skill with set as it no longer possible to to hit enemy with crit Backlash.

universal_wrath

Cinbri wrote: »

You can instantly proc Acuity set now by casting Backlash but Acuity is 5s while Backlash is 6s so it kill interaction of skill with set as it no longer possible to to hit enemy with crit Backlash.

But you would do higher damage and stack it to backpash during thr duration of acuity.

Firstmep

universal_wrath wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

You can instantly proc Acuity set now by casting Backlash but Acuity is 5s while Backlash is 6s so it kill interaction of skill with set as it no longer possible to to hit enemy with crit Backlash.

But you would do higher damage and stack it to backpash during thr duration of acuity.

You can proc Backlash on 1 bar and proc acuity on the other, problem solved.

FinrodMacBeorn

From PTS Patch Notes v6.1.0

"False God's Devotion:

Removed the extra 5 piece bonus of Spell Damage on the normal version of this set, and the extra 5 piece bonus of Magicka on the perfected version, to better mirror the power Vicious Ophidian as the perfected version of Quick Serpent."

So if PFG is VO für Magicka, can we expect it to drop with a certain percentage in nSS like VO in nCraglorn, and do chests and weekly quest reward in vSS now contain PFG instead of FG as compared to VO in vCraglorn?

YandereGirlfriend

Why did Healer's Habit not receive a buff when all that it provides as its 5-piece bonus is a minor buff?

As it currently stands, it has got to be one of the least mathematically "powerful" sets in the entire game.

It's extra strange when considering that the crafted Naga Shaman set gives both Minor Mending and Minor Vitality with a 100% potential uptime. And then we have the Rattlecage-like sets that all have an extra tranche of stats appended to their 5-piece because ZOS recognizes that providing a common named buff as a 5-piece bonus is quite weak. Similarly, Hollowfang Thirst provides a minor buff for the entire group as well as fantastic Magicka sustain.

Yes, minor buffs are more rare than most of the Major buffs but they are also less powerful. And in an era when healers already reach extremely high HPS while wearing DPS sets, the utility of a minor buff that boosts HPS is essentially zero.

This set would be a far more interesting and relevant set if it provided one of the more valuable minor buffs, such as Minor Courage, Minor Evasion, Minor Heroism or a combination of several of the less-valuable minor buffs.

ALTERNATIVE IDEAS:

1. As an Spell Power Cure-like set:

• 2 items: Adds 25-1096 Maximum Magicka
• 3 items: Adds 3-129 Magicka Recovery
• 4 items: Adds 3-129 Spell Damage
• 5 items: Healing an ally that is at 100% HP grants the target Minor Courage for 5 seconds

2. As a Gossamer-like set:

• 5 items: Healing an ally grants them Minor Evasion for 2 seconds.

3. As a group sustain set:

• 5 items: Gain Minor Mending at all times.
• 5 items: Healing an ally grants the target Minor Endurance and Minor Intellect for 10 seconds

4. As something different altogether:

• 5 items: Healing an ally that is at or under 35% HP grants both you and the ally Minor Heroism for 9 seconds.

These options would provide the set with appealing group utility in both PvE and PvP without (IMO) being overpowered.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Thannazzar

Given the ongoing Nerfs and Vampire Changes, isnt it time to re-evaluate the Vampire Lord Set to compensate eg (changes in bold)

Vampire Lord Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Increases the bonuses and decreases the penalties of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4 1%/2%/4%/6% reduction in Flame Damage Taken. 1%/2%/4%/6% reduced Regular Ability cost. 3%/5%/8%/12% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

This would equate to:(while wearing the set)

Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery: -10%/-30%/-60%/-100%
Flame Damage Taken: +4%/+6%/+9%/+14%
Regular Ability Costs: +2%/+3%/+4%/+6%
Vampire Ability Costs: -9%/-15%/-24%/-36%

Cinbri

Do smth with Jailer Tenacity.

In comparison to similar defensive procsets its terrible. Literally have no use, because it impossible to proc for anyone but maintank in raid. And PvE tanks wewar utility set, noone will will use recovery set coz its job of healer.
At least change proc conditions back to 20-25%of max hp loss.

akdave0

The thing I'm having the most difficultly with, is that you, the dev, say battle spirit affects armor sets/Skills in Cyro. Then why are the nerfs affecting the sets so dramatically in PVE? As a templar healer, youre killing us in PVE endgame vet trials with some of the set changes being made. Two healers now have to run Olorime for the duration to keep up the buff. Monster sets that were once viable in pve, that were never used in PVP, are now useless. WHY?! If i ran my business like you guys, i wouldnt be in business anymore.

Firstmep

akdave0 wrote: »

The thing I'm having the most difficultly with, is that you, the dev, say battle spirit affects armor sets/Skills in Cyro. Then why are the nerfs affecting the sets so dramatically in PVE? As a templar healer, youre killing us in PVE endgame vet trials with some of the set changes being made. Two healers now have to run Olorime for the duration to keep up the buff. Monster sets that were once viable in pve, that were never used in PVP, are now useless. WHY?! If i ran my business like you guys, i wouldnt be in business anymore.

I don't understand the changes to olorime and spc, I though their goal was to raise the floor skill wise.
This definetly won't do that.

Sahidom

Versispellis wrote: »

Remove the timer from Thrassian Stranglers. This isn't just a value adjustment, it changes the entire functionality of the set. It's no longer a high risk/high reward option for long encounters, but a middling risk/middling reward item for quick skirmishes. That's not what people farmed it for. The collective changes (besides adding weapon damage, which is GOOD) make it less interesting, challenging and rewarding to use.

I agree. Not for the reasons stated though. I agree because the 50 stack build up time is excessive when any load screen event resets the stack. This nullifies the actual timer for 99.9% of regular game play, and rarely will you be in one instance longer than an hour.

WrathOfInnos

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IIRC, you can use Blood Fountain and the Lifesteal will give you 100% Gossamer uptime provided that your DPS keep constant damage on the boss (or players in the case of PvP).

I fear that it might end in situation where you will have 0 effective uptime:
you get damage -> you get heal -> you gain major evasion for 1 second -> major evasion ends -> you get damage

Can't think of other encounter than lord Falgravn execute where players get damage often enough to make Gossamer usable. If they don't allow the set to proc from overheals, no bright future awaits the set.

Yeah true, seems pretty useless with a 1s duration. If it could proc on overheals that might be a different story, but the current form just means low uptime of evasion, that cannot be active before you take the AoE damage, only right after.

renne

FinrodMacBeorn wrote: »

From PTS Patch Notes v6.1.0

"False God's Devotion:

Removed the extra 5 piece bonus of Spell Damage on the normal version of this set, and the extra 5 piece bonus of Magicka on the perfected version, to better mirror the power Vicious Ophidian as the perfected version of Quick Serpent."

So if PFG is VO für Magicka, can we expect it to drop with a certain percentage in nSS like VO in nCraglorn, and do chests and weekly quest reward in vSS now contain PFG instead of FG as compared to VO in vCraglorn?

All this. I have never run a vet trial in my life and still have a bunch of VO. I should then have the equivalent pieces of PFG dropping from nSS if these two sets are meant to be the mag/stam equivalent like ZoS is claiming.

Yet ZoS keeps on not providing any explanation about how [set you can literally only get running a vet trial] and [set you can get just for showing up] are actually the same, you guys!

HoyaCarnosa

SLOAD`s SEMBALANCE set question: if i have read the patch notes right this set got no changes? So it still has a little 10% chance right? That would be sad,because as a set that gives both max stamina and max magicka and also weapon and spell dmg it is a good choice for players that want a little bit of both resources, but of course there are better sets if you want to go full 1 dmg type (please let the resources untouched, thanks, just change the proc chance of this set like you did with many others) and with the removal of proc chances from many sets my hope was that they would take another look at this set...

Firstmep

Briarheart: Beacuse of the forced downtime on this set, as well as the low heal, this set still wont be able to compete with more meta sets like new moon, clever alch, yandir etc.
Please consider allowing the heal from this set to critically strike, to reinforce the crit based playstyle the set seems to be centrered around.

Rattlecage: With mythics and sets like trainee, its getting harder and harder to justify double barring any set that isnt insanely powerful(like eternal vigor).
Please consider moving the 5pc bonuses to a 20 second timer: " When you deal damage, you gain major sorcery and 171 sepll damage for 20 seconds".
Soulshine: Given this set requires cast time or channeled abilities to proc, the 5 duration is simply too short, please buff it to 10 seconds.

Vordac

While changes to Master Architect and War Machine allow them to be better adopted by a range of builds (and especially support classes for which they are probably best relegated as they most efficiently apply this buff in conjunction with a regimented warhorn rotation) I think that the target cap for both these sets, as well as roaring opportunist, should be set to 12. This encourages their use in pve content as the losses for these sets are already quite high when taking into account their proc condition and the non-overlapping nature of buff. The cooldown for roaring opportunist should also be dependant on activation (i.e. once every 22 sec) rather than buff application.

Changes to twilight remedy are a great change, but I feel it should be upped to 20 sec. Synergies are finicky (especially on console) and the synergy options of healers are limited and in many cases overlapping with dd's. This set needs to be a reliable application of the buff with 100% uptime under realistic combat conditions.

ebix_

new moon nerf is unnecessary and only hurts solo players , if you are not happy with cost penalty beacuse of synergy sustain then add a penalty for synergy to it. dont nerf it with such a stupid reason
sets like new moon are only alternatives for people who don't want to play proc meta dont ruin this good option for us

Cinbri

Moon Hunter need to increase uptime to 10sec. Burning Spellweave is easy to proc on classes with fire abilities, 4s cd but also apply burning. while MH is by far harder to proc on mana build as only destro skills can proc poisons, so defacto 10s cd of poisons is bigger. So BS has ~same cd, bit less spd buff but unlike MH it has guraante proc and apply burning.

Firstmep

Cinbri wrote: »

Moon Hunter need to increase uptime to 10sec. Burning Spellweave is easy to proc on classes with fire abilities, 4s cd but also apply burning. while MH is by far harder to proc on mana build as only destro skills can proc poisons, so defacto 10s cd of poisons is bigger. So BS has ~same cd, bit less spd buff but unlike MH it has guraante proc and apply burning.

100% Agreed, poisons arent guaranteed proc, unlike the new bsw which will proc from a single light attack from a fire staff.

Texecutioner187

Sorry to be "that guy" but I can't seem to find the link to the original PTS Updates thread... just all the comment threads. Can anyone help?

Texecutioner187

Texecutioner187 wrote: »

Sorry to be "that guy" but I can't seem to find the link to the original PTS Updates thread... just all the comment threads. Can anyone help?

Sorry, I didn't realize "6.1.0" was the base update. My brain kept telling me I should be looking for 6.0 or something. My bad.