VMA and VDSA weapons will have perfected versions but your weapon won't be upgraded automatically.

Rezdayn

I made a video with my opinions on the upcoming changes and this thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un2b_mVDvU8&feature=youtu.be

virtus753

Elsonso wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, the issue is not the one stat for min/maxing. It’s the fact they’re telling me all my time and effort on vMA was worth jack s. and only qualified me for normal rewards. They are literally telling me to do the same exact content for the upgraded version and treating me as if I’d never cleared vMA at all.

You did the content, and you got the reward you were looking for. They have not said that your reward is changing, so you still have your reward. It has not changed. It is still the same weapon.

The weapon is not just a weapon. It is a trophy representative of completing certain content on certain difficulty.

In reassigning that trophy to norm without upgrading my weapons from vet, they have said my weapon represents something far less than it did when I earned it. They are severely devaluing it.

Any feeling of accomplishment or reward associated with the weapon becomes null and void because what it represents has been changed. The entire premise of the reward as reflective of a certain accomplishment has been undermined.

There was, by the way, an entire epic composed about a very similar situation. Its first word means “wrath,” quite appropriately, and that is what ZOS is getting from so many people right now for good reason. People have been feeling this way about having their trophies invalidated for thousands of years.

It’s not just a weapon. It’s not just a line of code. If you don’t see it that way, that’s absolutely your prerogative. Just like it’s mine to see it the way I do.

Elsonso

mairwen85 wrote: »

I can only assume you haven't cleared vma that you think this is acceptable and continue to make excuses on ZOS behalf. It's not so much about the weapon but the reward.

I have not, and have no interest in doing so. At least, not right now. My personal feelings are not hurt or damaged at all by this, so they do not bear weight in how I see things unfolding.

It is not that I am making excuses on behalf of ZOS, or "white knighting", as many people assume. They can make their own excuses. I have no idea what they are actually thinking or what reasons they actually have for doing what they do. What I am doing is refusing to view this using measures that assume malice and incompetence on their part, or some fancy conspiracy to make players perform mindless tasks and slip more money out of our pockets.

The people in the studio are human, just like the rest of us, and are likely to be typically average in temperament. I am not expecting them to act like psychopaths or some sort of movie bad guy. They are going to act, and make decisions, like a typical human. I think that a lot of comments in here forget that. It is hard, at times, but I try to remember that.

I do look at this with an eye to what I would do, and what would cause me to make the same decisions that they do. I am not unfamiliar with these sorts of decisions. I provide whatever perspective comes from that.

Raudgrani

Never been so hesitant to buying a new chapter, as with this one - which is weird, as I should be loving it. I would simply love going to Skyrim, more than anything in this game. First they spook us with "suggested changes to LA/HA" (after "we changed how block works, we think you will like it!", which we of course didn't - as it's broke af now!), I was like "NO way, this is it... Ok, not? Maybe I'll buy it anyway, might be fun".

After more or less deciding to get next chapter, this highly arrogant Maelstrom weapons change is presented, and the representative giving us the information won't even bother answering it any further, despite like half of the community being in uproar. Go through with this, and I most certainly won't be there next chapter, enough is enough. The LA/HA change threat already made me NOT buy the physical pre-order, and I most certainly won't in any case now. You guys can't be trusted. Getting serious Caligula vibes here.

Sennecca

I like the fact that people who don't want to or find themselves not able to complete the vet version could get some reward for completing normal.
However, Normal maelstrom arena is like killing a guar outside of vivec city. The Vet version is like trying to kill a dlc boss solo. The difference in difficulty is more than a bump. Many people have beat their keyboards, their mice, screamed and yelled while trying to learn how to defeat that arena. They then practiced, ran it again and again trying to get a piece of gear that will give them just a bit more damage. The achievement of the first time completing vMA is something I believe everyone remembers. I've completed normal maelstrom on a level 22 character.
It is more about taking away something that someone has gotten for completing difficult content like Vet HM Frostvault (for example) and giving the same reward to someone that has completed Vet fungal grotto and negating any achivement the person had in Vet HM frostvault.

mairwen85

Elsonso wrote: »

I have not, and have no interest in doing so.

Interesting that you feel the need to be so verbose on this matter then.

Elsonso wrote: »

I have no idea what they are actually thinking or what reasons they actually have for doing what they do.

---

I do look at this with an eye to what I would do, and what would cause me to make the same decisions that they do. I am not unfamiliar with these sorts of decisions. I provide whatever perspective comes from that.

And what would that be? What in your familiarity with such decisions warrants disrespect to your customers?

Elsonso

virtus753 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, the issue is not the one stat for min/maxing. It’s the fact they’re telling me all my time and effort on vMA was worth jack s. and only qualified me for normal rewards. They are literally telling me to do the same exact content for the upgraded version and treating me as if I’d never cleared vMA at all.

You did the content, and you got the reward you were looking for. They have not said that your reward is changing, so you still have your reward. It has not changed. It is still the same weapon.

The weapon is not just a weapon. It is a trophy representative of completing certain content on certain difficulty.

I want to point out something, because I think that people forget this. ZOS employees play this game. They have done vMA, and they have received their trophy for completing it. The Creative Director has been doing vMA for years and likely has more than one of these trophies. He just posted another vMA clear last week. In that person, we are talking about someone who has done this work, received the reward, is in the same position as a lot of you, and is actually in a position to influence how ZOS handles these weapons. Yet, here we are.

xaraan

So still no response from zos?

The idea was to drop a bomb on the forums on the weekend and hope it blows over by monday patch notes? And just hide from actually answering why you would screw over players like this?

No matter how you justify it, be you zos or an apologist, it'll always be wrong what they are doing.

Some player could run Veteran MA three weeks from now (not everyone keeps up with this type of news) and get a weapon equivalent to running Normal a week later and then some new player running Veteran for the first time a week after him now gets a better version of his weapon?

That's in no way right. Don't care if it's an "MMO" thing, something wrong being done over and over again does not make it ok.

No player that ran veteran version of MA deserves to have their weapons magically turned into Normal versions of MA just so they can make people re-farm old content again. I don't care if a couple devs and and streamers think MA is the best thing ever, it's overwhelmingly one of the most hated places to run in the game.

And I've seen literally no argument that supports it that is rational. At best people are like, eh, it only screws you a little, so don't care so much.

If you know the guys that farm MA easily can just get new weapons, then why make them do it? There is no challenge or accomplishment for them in doing so. Making them do so is solely to *** them off. Literally does nothing else.

You want to give your old content an illusion that it's still popular? We all know that will be a lie, so why bother. It's not being run b/c it's good content, so you aren't fooling anyone.

Technical limitations? We all know any excuse like that would be a bold faced lie.

So to those saying zos isn't making this decision based on malice needs to show more evidence. This is nothing but handing the meta weapons to starter players, which is fine, most people have no problem with the concept of normal and perfected MA weapons. While at the same time giving a middle finger to the end game or long time players that have already done this content and earned veteran MA weapons.

Tell me about how this is a car or whatever analogy works for you to justify this for zos. But the reason you are using a straw man argument and creating an alternate example is because what they are doing using the actual changes is wrong and you cannot use the fact to prove your point.

Veteran MA runs should get your veteran MA weapons, whether they are buffing them or not. If they were nerfing them, they would leave all the existing ones unchanged, so if they are buffing them, the same should apply. Just imagine if every time zos changed any stats on any gear, you had to re-farm the gear. No matter what one says, running veteran MA now should not earn the same drop as running normal MA in a month.

Ri_Khan

Last time I was in vMA it was a messy %#!& show, invisible enemies, massive skill delay, way too much lag for a solo instance. All of you that haven't done it in a while are in for a big surprise.

xF1REFL1x

Hard to believe they dont have any understanding of how much work went into getting the inferno staff. Everything doesn't need to require a grind in this game... sometimes this game forgets it a game. This will not be fun or rewarding... just work until the inferno staff is acquired.

Pinja

I think for the love of community they should just upgrade the weapons. Otherwise it'll be like Venezuelan inflation to peoples retirement savings. You put in the work, have some your life's work stored away, then suddenly everything you had saved up from your hard days labor becomes worthless. Now your old, broke, and more importantly don't want to head back to work, because your days in the field are done.

All the prestige you had eroded.
Added trial complications because someone miss coded.
Never got a buff so let that be noted.
Did I do the content? I so did...
Players out here, so loaded.
Can't buy vMA, bank bloated.
Mad my prize ain't coated.
Should be, diamond, studded,
Perfected.

Knowledge

Pinja wrote: »

I think for the love of community they should just upgrade the weapons. Otherwise it'll be like Venezuelan inflation to peoples retirement savings. You put in the work, have some your life's work stored away, then suddenly everything you had saved up from your hard days labor becomes worthless. Now your old, broke, and more importantly don't want to head back to work, because your days in the field are done.

All the prestige you had eroded.
Added trial complications because someone miss coded.
Never got a buff so let that be noted.
Did I do the content? I so did...
Players out here, so loaded.
Can't buy vMA, bank bloated.
Mad my prize ain't coated.
Should be, diamond, studded,
Perfected.

I was thinking the same thing.

danielclarkb16_ESO

Worrying thing for me here is, are they now setting a precedent for any future gear changes? Not looking forward to this potential CP change if I literally have to re-farm ALL of my gear again on ALL of my characters.

SidraWillowsky

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

I can only assume you haven't cleared vma that you think this is acceptable and continue to make excuses on ZOS behalf. It's not so much about the weapon but the reward.

I have not, and have no interest in doing so. At least, not right now. My personal feelings are not hurt or damaged at all by this, so they do not bear weight in how I see things unfolding.

It is not that I am making excuses on behalf of ZOS, or "white knighting", as many people assume. They can make their own excuses. I have no idea what they are actually thinking or what reasons they actually have for doing what they do. What I am doing is refusing to view this using measures that assume malice and incompetence on their part, or some fancy conspiracy to make players perform mindless tasks and slip more money out of our pockets.

The people in the studio are human, just like the rest of us, and are likely to be typically average in temperament. I am not expecting them to act like psychopaths or some sort of movie bad guy. They are going to act, and make decisions, like a typical human. I think that a lot of comments in here forget that. It is hard, at times, but I try to remember that.

I do look at this with an eye to what I would do, and what would cause me to make the same decisions that they do. I am not unfamiliar with these sorts of decisions. I provide whatever perspective comes from that.

Wait.... You've not completed vMA but are here downplaying the impact that this is going to have on players who have worked their butts off for their vMA weaps?!?

Sit down.

method__01

people who spend many hours-in my case,days to clear the arena deserve better treatment


wtf thought this is a good idea?


[Edit to remove bahsing]

Malmai

They nerfed VMA weapons in past now they want me to grind it again probably they will buff it... better change it to auto change cause this is dirty AF... Get PERFORMANCE fixed and stop masking it with this.

xaraan

danielclarkb16_ESO wrote: »

Worrying thing for me here is, are they now setting a precedent for any future gear changes? Not looking forward to this potential CP change if I literally have to re-farm ALL of my gear again on ALL of my characters.

This is a good observation.

If they are willing to give vet players the middle finger on this, then when they redo CP, they will have no problem doing it again to screw over long term players that put in work just to gift wrap an easier game for new and casual players.

Matchimus

Next announcement is if u have completed vma u can buy weapons in crown store.

MLGProPlayer

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Of course it's realistic. It's no different than changing the stats on any piece of gear, and they do that every patch.

Hell, they removed the "perfected" stats from vMA weapons like 2 years ago. Now they're adding them back to the weapons and telling everyone they can have them back, if they're willing to grind another 100+ hours for them.

MLGProPlayer

xaraan wrote: »

So still no response from zos?

The idea was to drop a bomb on the forums on the weekend and hope it blows over by monday patch notes? And just hide from actually answering why you would screw over players like this?

Welcome to ESO!

Tommy_The_Gun

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Of course it's realistic. It's no different than changing the stats on any piece of gear, and they do that every patch.

Hell, they removed the "perfected" stat from vMA weapons like 2 years ago.

Yep, exactly this.

- Change the name of "Maelstrom Weapon" to "Perfected Maelstrom Weapon" and buff the stats.
- Add other item with different ID and call it "Maelstrom Weapon", copy-paste current MA weapon stat, make it blue and drop on normal.
- Done.

^ You don't need to be a programmer to know that. It is really a no-brainer. If you were making a mod for example to one of TES games - then you know it is pretty simple. That is why I don't buy any "It is a technical issue" argument... because it is not...

The thing is they are trying to add new perfected weapons, instead of "editing" exisitng ones and adding non-perfected versions.

Agenericname

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

I can only assume you haven't cleared vma that you think this is acceptable and continue to make excuses on ZOS behalf. It's not so much about the weapon but the reward.

I have not, and have no interest in doing so. At least, not right now. My personal feelings are not hurt or damaged at all by this, so they do not bear weight in how I see things unfolding.

It is not that I am making excuses on behalf of ZOS, or "white knighting", as many people assume. They can make their own excuses. I have no idea what they are actually thinking or what reasons they actually have for doing what they do. What I am doing is refusing to view this using measures that assume malice and incompetence on their part, or some fancy conspiracy to make players perform mindless tasks and slip more money out of our pockets.

The people in the studio are human, just like the rest of us, and are likely to be typically average in temperament. I am not expecting them to act like psychopaths or some sort of movie bad guy. They are going to act, and make decisions, like a typical human. I think that a lot of comments in here forget that. It is hard, at times, but I try to remember that.

I do look at this with an eye to what I would do, and what would cause me to make the same decisions that they do. I am not unfamiliar with these sorts of decisions. I provide whatever perspective comes from that.

Wait.... You've not completed vMA but are here downplaying the impact that this is going to have on players who have worked their butts off for their vMA weaps?!?

Sit down.

In all fairness I seriously doubt the people who made this ridiculous decision have cleared it, or farmed it, or spent the xmutes and mats to upgrade them either.

Seems qualified to me.

Drako_Ei

vMA weapons will result in a DPS decrease on the wrong hands, they require skill to use like activating sinergies only on frost bar, not dropping AY stacks, keep siroria up, using spammables on front bar only, etc.

This Change won't help to raise floor, it will only make angry the veteran players with the regrind nonsense.

Lylith

Ri_Khan wrote: »

Last time I was in vMA it was a messy %#!& show, invisible enemies, massive skill delay, way too much lag for a solo instance. All of you that haven't done it in a while are in for a big surprise.

it hasn't improved one whit, either.

*** that place.

SidraWillowsky

Drako_Ei wrote: »

vMA weapons will result in a DPS decrease on the wrong hands, they require skill to use like activating sinergies only on frost bar, not dropping AY stacks, keep siroria up, using spammables on front bar only, etc.

This Change won't help to raise floor, it will only make angry the veteran players with the regrind nonsense.

Good point... regardless of the set you're wearing, if your back bar rotation takes more than a few seconds or if you don't line up your synergies, your DPS will tank due to the loss via breaking your front bar sets:

• If you front bar Siroria, Spell Strategist, Advancing Yokeda, or any other set that has stacks that build or timed procs, if you don't get back to your front bar in time, you lose all of those stacks and have to rebuild them. Bonus points for Spell Strategist, because it requires effective LA weaving for maximized uptime- getting a light attack in immediately before swapping to your back bar and immediately after swapping back to front bar is pretty critical.
• If you front bar a set with effects that apply all the time (False God's, Mother's Sorrow, NMA, Deadly Strike), you lose that bonus on your back bar.
• Lokkestiiz or Master Architect or War Machine front-barred: hit the synergy or use your ultimate on your back bar? RIP DPS

This is giving me flashbacks to my painful experience with the Advancing Yokeda set back when it was the meta- I didn't PvP at the time and I will not use a new set until it's been traited and golded out (I like to see the net DPS change from having everything ready vs. incremental as I xmute and gold it), so I spent weeks getting the xmute crystals that I needed by running all seven trials (at the time) on three of my characters each week and doing as many vet HM pledges as I could. My first parse with it once it was done was 5k lower than the set I'd been using (I think Hunding's, actually)... god, that was awful. My DPS dropped so much because my back bar rotation (stamblade) was sloppy and took more than five seconds. Since those AY stacks only last five seconds, they dropped off before I swapped back to my front bar and I had to rebuild them each time I swapped to front bar.

I've still not been able to figure that set out. It was a massive effort to get it and be able to use it, so if your LA weaving isn't great or your back bar rotation is too slow, consider this a warning that your blood, sweat, and tears will only be worth it if you can get those things figured out. If not, I personally wouldn't bother with the pain of Maelstrom.... And nothing wrong with that! In 99% of the content in the game, the few thousand DPS that they add when used properly will not make or break your ability to complete it...

clocksstoppe

So people like this will have the same weapons we struggled to get with minmaxed builds and insane training while we don't get perfected version upgrade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axsgf6Ei_lU

Matchimus

MA is anti-social. Sorry guild members...cant help. Re-farming MA.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Can't wait until Greymoor to refarm old content instead of experiencing the new content

xXMeowMeowXx

ZOS should upgrade the weapons for the people that have already completed the content....Not punish them. This is a very alarming direction ZOS is taking.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

How do you find this fair for players that have already run the content hundreds of times?? This is an uninspired and unfair change.

Do something new!!!!

VMA is old....Add a New Arena in a DLC for us to play and complete.

A lot of longtime players have been asking for new solo content anyway....so why not make it. Many new and old players would welcome the new arena, especially eso+ members

Think it over please, as it is a good opportunity Having New weapons, titles, cosmetics like the poly or maybe even a mount. A win win.

Sure add imperfect weapons for NMA since people seem to want it. Though don’t make the existing weapons downgraded, make new engaging content instead.

IWinWithPewPew

[snip]

I Just got my maelstrom bow after a year a week ago. And now ur basically giving it for Free????? [snip]

[edited for profanity]