VMA and VDSA weapons will have perfected versions but your weapon won't be upgraded automatically.

IWinWithPewPew

Thabk God you did a beter job on fallout76! Eso is going pre-wastelanders fallout76

ayu_fever

the snowflakes and top players like having something to hold over the heads of us casuals, and now.... vma and vdsa weapons wont be part of that!
the forums are burning and their tears are very amusing.
those that can do vma in 3o minutes will just have to suck it up and regrind for them.
this is an mmo, so get to that grind!

couple of points here:

-i welcome the change because after years of being locked out of obtaining them, i can actually get them from cruising through normal and not worrying about if i can complete the activity.

-so what if i am “not good enough” to beat veteran mode? the more players who have even the normal versions of the gear benefits the community as a whole because more players will have better items to help them advance into veteran content. this will help players who want to get better to be able to be accepted more easily into progressions and such.



yeah, some players (me) will just farm normal and stay out of vet because i dont do vet content. i just do not possess the required level of dedication and effort to do them. this is a GAME and not a JOB.

this community is toxic because everyone worries wayyyyyyyyy too much about what everyone else is doing/using/wearing and how they obtianed it.
tank not a DK with alkosh? KICK!
healer is a nightblade? KICK!
stam dps in asylum? KICK!
mag dps is a pet sorc? KICK!
someone trandformed into a werewolf? KICK!

let us casuals enjoy the game. we have OUR playground on normal mode in all content.
[snip]

[edited for baiting]

daemonios

ayu_fever wrote: »

the snowflakes and top players like having something to hold over the heads of us casuals, and now.... vma and vdsa weapons wont be part of that!
the forums are burning and their tears are very amusing.
those that can do vma in 3o minutes will just have to suck it up and regrind for them.
this is an mmo, so get to that grind!

couple of points here:

-i welcome the change because after years of being locked out of obtaining them, i can actually get them from cruising through normal and not worrying about if i can complete the activity.

-so what if i am “not good enough” to beat veteran mode? the more players who have even the normal versions of the gear benefits the community as a whole because more players will have better items to help them advance into veteran content. this will help players who want to get better to be able to be accepted more easily into progressions and such.



yeah, some players (me) will just farm normal and stay out of vet because i dont do vet content. i just do not possess the required level of dedication and effort to do them. this is a GAME and not a JOB.

this community is toxic because everyone worries wayyyyyyyyy too much about what everyone else is doing/using/wearing and how they obtianed it.
tank not a DK with alkosh? KICK!
healer is a nightblade? KICK!
stam dps in asylum? KICK!
mag dps is a pet sorc? KICK!
someone trandformed into a werewolf? KICK!

let us casuals enjoy the game. we have OUR playground on normal mode in all content.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]

You've just proved you don't understand the issue and are simply suffering from an inferiority complex. Nobody is complaining about perfected/non-perfected weapons per se. We are questioning the decision to force people who've already run vMA and nauseam to run the exact same old content for new rewards. They could have converted existing weapons from vet to perfected. They could actually develop new content with new BiS weapons that could be obtained in normal or vet. Out of the infinite options available to them as developers, ZOS choose one that is a slap on the face to many players.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
We had to remove some posts as it violated our rules around baiting. Please be sure to keep discussions civil and constructive​. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

mairwen85

daemonios wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

the snowflakes and top players like having something to hold over the heads of us casuals, and now.... vma and vdsa weapons wont be part of that!
the forums are burning and their tears are very amusing.
those that can do vma in 3o minutes will just have to suck it up and regrind for them.
this is an mmo, so get to that grind!

couple of points here:

-i welcome the change because after years of being locked out of obtaining them, i can actually get them from cruising through normal and not worrying about if i can complete the activity.

-so what if i am “not good enough” to beat veteran mode? the more players who have even the normal versions of the gear benefits the community as a whole because more players will have better items to help them advance into veteran content. this will help players who want to get better to be able to be accepted more easily into progressions and such.



yeah, some players (me) will just farm normal and stay out of vet because i dont do vet content. i just do not possess the required level of dedication and effort to do them. this is a GAME and not a JOB.

this community is toxic because everyone worries wayyyyyyyyy too much about what everyone else is doing/using/wearing and how they obtianed it.
tank not a DK with alkosh? KICK!
healer is a nightblade? KICK!
stam dps in asylum? KICK!
mag dps is a pet sorc? KICK!
someone trandformed into a werewolf? KICK!

let us casuals enjoy the game. we have OUR playground on normal mode in all content.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]

You've just proved you don't understand the issue and are simply suffering from an inferiority complex. Nobody is complaining about perfected/non-perfected weapons per se. We are questioning the decision to force people who've already run vMA and nauseam to run the exact same old content for new rewards. They could have converted existing weapons from vet to perfected. They could actually develop new content with new BiS weapons that could be obtained in normal or vet. Out of the infinite options available to them as developers, ZOS choose one that is a slap on the face to many players.

Exactly the point. No one in this thread has any issue with new non-perfect weapons being introduced into normal. Nobody begrudges anyone the opportunity to earn a slightly lesser version of the vMA weapon. No one. The disgruntlement comes from having the currently earned weapons which will drop from the same content, thus for the same criterion as the proposed 'perfected' weapons, downgraded to the imperfect reward. That effectively invalidates the time and effort of many players over several years. This is not tears and QQ for the sake of 'lording' over anyone, but anger at the slap in the face from ZOS and their complete lack of recognition for those players.

I suggest, ayu_fever, you go back and read a little more of the thread before calling people out with derogatory labels when in actuality they are in support of your needs and wants from this game (and the chance for you to not be 'locked out' for want of a weapon), but are unhappy with how their own accomplishments are devalued by the method of its implementation.

The player stance is simple, why not add new non-perfect weapons to normal and make the current weapon perfected? Surely that's what the current weapons are. In absence of non-perfected, and because they only drop from vet, and placement of the leader-board, the current weapons ARE the perfected versions. ZOS has yet to give any justification for this decision.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

ayu_fever wrote: »

the snowflakes and top players like having something to hold over the heads of us casuals, and now.... vma and vdsa weapons wont be part of that!
the forums are burning and their tears are very amusing.
those that can do vma in 3o minutes will just have to suck it up and regrind for them.
this is an mmo, so get to that grind!

couple of points here:

-i welcome the change because after years of being locked out of obtaining them, i can actually get them from cruising through normal and not worrying about if i can complete the activity.

-so what if i am “not good enough” to beat veteran mode? the more players who have even the normal versions of the gear benefits the community as a whole because more players will have better items to help them advance into veteran content. this will help players who want to get better to be able to be accepted more easily into progressions and such.



yeah, some players (me) will just farm normal and stay out of vet because i dont do vet content. i just do not possess the required level of dedication and effort to do them. this is a GAME and not a JOB.

this community is toxic because everyone worries wayyyyyyyyy too much about what everyone else is doing/using/wearing and how they obtianed it.
tank not a DK with alkosh? KICK!
healer is a nightblade? KICK!
stam dps in asylum? KICK!
mag dps is a pet sorc? KICK!
someone trandformed into a werewolf? KICK!

let us casuals enjoy the game. we have OUR playground on normal mode in all content.
[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Nobody is complaining that normal mode awards the weapons. What they are complaining about is the fact that rewards earned on vet will soon be the same as the ones earned on normal and the people who have already completed the content on vet and earned those rewards are cheated out of the perfected versions that they would have otherwise earned. I'm happy that the more casual audience finally gets to earn the weapons they couldn't earn before but it's a slap in the face to the people who went through all that work to do it on vet.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

yes now go grind again cuz its an mmo and stop complaining...also imagine when I told people some years ago this will happen at some point and they all threw !@#% at me...well who laughs now?

Cadbury

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

yes now go grind again cuz its an mmo and stop complaining...also imagine when I told people some years ago this will happen at some point and they all threw !@#% at me...well who laughs now?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

fyrestrtr88

I just don’t understand why people who have all ready
Farmed their weapons,
Possibly transmuted,
And used materials to
Improve to legendary...
Will suffer consequences...
I would never have transmuted or
Even improved such a sub-par
Set piece.
If we cannot have our weapons changed
To the perfect version...
I feel like we should at least receive a care
Package of
Some sort...plenty of gold mats,
And transmutation geodes.

fyrestrtr88

Perhaps they could even edit the system a bit,
And change the all ready earned
Vet weapons, to perfect,
And when adding the normal version,
Perhaps they could change that to imperfect...
That way the implementation does not
Upset anyone

Theignson

Depressing. I don't see why I have to go back and do that content again. I did vMA on my stam DK , who was my main, and it was painful.I thought I long since put that behind me. I don't want to go back and do it again.

On the other hand I wonder if I'll even use the weapons even with an additional stat. I rarely use them anymore.

Superkraut

ayu_fever wrote: »

the snowflakes and top players like having something to hold over the heads of us casuals, and now.... vma and vdsa weapons wont be part of that!
the forums are burning and their tears are very amusing.
those that can do vma in 3o minutes will just have to suck it up and regrind for them.
this is an mmo, so get to that grind!

couple of points here:

-i welcome the change because after years of being locked out of obtaining them, i can actually get them from cruising through normal and not worrying about if i can complete the activity.

-so what if i am “not good enough” to beat veteran mode? the more players who have even the normal versions of the gear benefits the community as a whole because more players will have better items to help them advance into veteran content. this will help players who want to get better to be able to be accepted more easily into progressions and such.



yeah, some players (me) will just farm normal and stay out of vet because i dont do vet content. i just do not possess the required level of dedication and effort to do them. this is a GAME and not a JOB.

this community is toxic because everyone worries wayyyyyyyyy too much about what everyone else is doing/using/wearing and how they obtianed it.
tank not a DK with alkosh? KICK!
healer is a nightblade? KICK!
stam dps in asylum? KICK!
mag dps is a pet sorc? KICK!
someone trandformed into a werewolf? KICK!

let us casuals enjoy the game. we have OUR playground on normal mode in all content.
[snip]

[edited for baiting]

You are missing the point by such a wide margin here.
Most people don't have a problem with the drops on normal.
You are saying that those that can do vma just have to suck it up and regrind!
Why should we? Only because we can? Hmmm🤔
Also You: This is an MMO so get to that grind
The point is we already did. Why force players that grinded the hell out of those arenas to do so again

jadarock

LMar wrote: »

It's just such a mind boggling decision.

How many of the devs do you think have completed maelstrom on norm even? lol
They have big homes filled with shinies and some clown store gown for rping later if anything...

It's simple all weapons already earned should be designated as perfected. Period.

Only Zos smh...

eso_lags

Turelus wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

It's an Id in a data table, just like when they nerfed it, they updated the base item which affected all instances of it.

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Just clone the existing Id for non perfected, update the original to perfected. 5minute job for a grad developer on pittance pay.

The thing is that these people are not stupid, and they are not blind to what players want. If it was simply a matter that a grad student could have done in 5 minutes, then I would expect that they would be doing it. They are not evil, and they are not deliberately mean. If we start to assume that they are doing this for no good reason, or just to be mean, or just because they don't listen, we might as well blame it on 5G cell towers.

Now, I could be wrong. I am not an insider. It just seems implausible that this is just some arbitrary decision to avoid "5 minutes of work".

This is an MMO... they're designed to be as grind-y and addictive as possible. They have teams of analysts and even psychologists whose job it is to ensure that people are playing as much as possible.

This is absolutely intentional from that standpoint. They make tweaks/nerfs/buffs to sets all the time that are applied to existing sets during patches- remember Ravager, Veiled Heritance, Elemental Succession, Iceheart, etc etc etc. There is zero chance that there's no way to change existing vMA weaps to their perfected versions during this update.

They want people to keep playing/grinding, pure and simple.

Even if that's the case there is a line you don't normally cross.

I personally can't think of any MMO in my years of gaming which changed an item people worked their butt off to get to a lower version just to add the old version back in as a "new" item.

What I don't understand (and I have no coding/design knowledge) is why can't all the current items in the game have their info update to say perfect and keep their values, vet arenas keep dropping those items.
Then create a whole new item/database entry for the new standard version.

Back when they changed vma weapons they also changed vma shields to "the malestroms shield". Like i had shields of the hunt and permafrost in my bank that, after the update, were removed and mailed back to me as "malestrom shields". If they could do that then this should be no issue. I mean with all the changes they make in this game is still should be no issue..

On another note, I wanted the hunt and permafrost shields that they removed and spent about 6 months begging them to give me them back. They would not even though they are still on the drop table. They went into my bank, removed items i worked for, and mailed me vma shields i didnt want, and then refused to give me my old ones because i couldn't prove I had them. Fantastic.

xaraan

as for any toxic troll that is enjoying seeing end-game players feeling screwed by this:

You want the end game players to not act like elitists, that's a two way street. If you are going to have a chip on your shoulder and treat people badly, that will return to you. There is the same amount of toxicity among casuals as among end game players (it's just a certain amount of people in the world with that sort of attitude), and there are more casual players, so for every end game player that acts elitist, I've run into ten casuals that are just as if not more toxic. We need to stop that cycle IMO and the only way to do it is not to use the excuse to do it yourself b/c someone did it to you. If you run into one toxic person, chalk it up to that person, not to them being a vet player, a casual player, an RP player, etc. and move on.

Now, as for the change: most of us actually like the idea of adding nMA weapons. Not many are suggesting they not do that.

It's that they are taking vMA drops and changing them to nMA drops (whether the stats change or not, the "reward" level is being changed. And forcing players that do not, as a large majority, enjoy running vMA to do it over again dozens and dozens of times for drops. This is in addition to the fact that upgrade mats and transmute stones have been wasted (I just wasted mats literally a week ago and trans stones on an item that's going to be decon trash in a month).

No one should do vMA right now and get a lesser reward than someone running vMA two months from now. And no one running nMA should have the same reward as someone that did vMA, even if that person ran vMA months ago. Having two levels/types of gear for types of players is fine, but that's no excuse to screw over one of those two player types, even if you enjoy seeing them screwed over out of spite.

Rave the Histborn

dickeybarret wrote: »

For one, I'm glad more players will have access to DSA and VMA equipment. Having people geared properly can only help things on the whole. However. Being one that has spent plenty of hours and 100s of runs getting what I need from that place, the notion of having to do that all again sorta makes my stomach turn. Simple solution. IF coding to upgrade everyone who currently has VMA/DSA weapons is too hard, simply mail people the corresponding perfected item if they have a VMA/DSA weapon in their inventory (as since right now the only way to acquire them is through vet) before the patch goes live. Then the people that invested time and effort don't feel like they wasted their time, while still keeping things accessible to the larger playerbase. Just my 2 gold on things...

It will help people build false confidence and cause them to be more frustrated at harder content. Gear is 10% of endgame and mechanics/rotation is the other 90%. You're going to then get a ton of people thinking all they need is Master/Maelstrom weapons and will be even more frustrated to learn not all are their weapons the lesser version but it also isn't the secret to an 80k dps parse.

Selminus

I think the best route here is to increase and diversify what you can get in VMA overall meaning it does not have to be gear. The 8 arenas leading up to the final have little to no value to most players. Then you may not even get weapons you need. Broaden the VMA loot and you will kill two birds with one stone. Motifs, Style books, whatever. Those first 8 chests are where I think you solve the reward versus time investment issue.

xF1REFL1x

For me it's all about the inferno staff rpg... how many exhausting times will we have to go back in there to try and get it. Don't have time for new content if I will be in there grinding the same arena hoping for one specific drop.

trymi

ayu_fever wrote: »

this community is toxic because everyone worries wayyyyyyyyy too much about what everyone else is doing/using/wearing and how they obtianed it.
tank not a DK with alkosh? KICK!
healer is a nightblade? KICK!
stam dps in asylum? KICK!
mag dps is a pet sorc? KICK!
someone trandformed into a werewolf? KICK!
[edited for baiting]

I've literally run hundreds if not thousands of random vet and normal dungeons via the group finder (solo). I can recall one time that anyone asked or commented on my equipment/skills setup. If you are getting asked, it might be that you aren't helping the group or doing something that is preventing overall group success.

The rest of your examples were probably not the reasons for the kicks. No one kicks a competent tank regardless of class. The queue for another tank is probably 30+ minutes. Everyone might as well leave then. Someone that was the tank or healer transformed into werewolf, probably deserved to be kicked. They can't effectively do either of those jobs in werewolf form.

I'm sorry your experience has been toxic. Based on your comment, some of that toxicity might be self induced. I suspect you haven't run with the elite end game players (I'm not one of them, but I know how to spot them and I've maybe had 10-20 runs with any). Sadly, most of them don't use the group finder and opt to run through guilds. I can also say from experience the very vast majority of them are super helpful if you are willing to listen and learn.


Back on topic, I also support adding the lesser version in normal, but existing vet equipment must be upgraded. Otherwise, what's next they will release perfected monster sets? Then we can all go back and grind vet dungeons for the perfected monster sets?

Matchimus

This is sad now. They have flung a few scraps on the ground and left the players to fight over it.

SirMewser

ayu_fever wrote: »

the snowflakes and top players like having something to hold over the heads of us casuals, and now.... vma and vdsa weapons wont be part of that!
the forums are burning and their tears are very amusing.
those that can do vma in 3o minutes will just have to suck it up and regrind for them.
this is an mmo, so get to that grind!

couple of points here:

-i welcome the change because after years of being locked out of obtaining them, i can actually get them from cruising through normal and not worrying about if i can complete the activity.

-so what if i am “not good enough” to beat veteran mode? the more players who have even the normal versions of the gear benefits the community as a whole because more players will have better items to help them advance into veteran content. this will help players who want to get better to be able to be accepted more easily into progressions and such.



yeah, some players (me) will just farm normal and stay out of vet because i dont do vet content. i just do not possess the required level of dedication and effort to do them. this is a GAME and not a JOB.

this community is toxic because everyone worries wayyyyyyyyy too much about what everyone else is doing/using/wearing and how they obtianed it.
tank not a DK with alkosh? KICK!
healer is a nightblade? KICK!
stam dps in asylum? KICK!
mag dps is a pet sorc? KICK!
someone trandformed into a werewolf? KICK!

let us casuals enjoy the game. we have OUR playground on normal mode in all content.
[snip]

[edited for baiting]

You think it has to do with "power over" others?
You know how kids have imaginary friends?
Do you think; maybe, you might have imaginary enemies?

It has more to do with inconsequential efforts in veteran content to get weapons that were once "perfected", then stripped of their stat bonuses, then reimplemented in the form of Blackrose Prison weapons that retained status bonuses, and then Maelstrom/Dragonstar weapons are given to normal mode runners. Now veteran players are told to redo their efforts. If they want standardization, why can't they be congruent with their own continuity? Why are veteran players penalized?

Perhaps the lack of sensitivity for this subject comes from the inexperience of doing veteran dungeons?
Regardless, enjoy the free maelstrom weapons.

Maybe you've had bad experience(s) with veteran players who 'boast' or are 'arrogant', because the way you generalize and speak of them. I don't know, I'm sorry if that's the case, but it might have been warranted.

gamergirldk

ayu_fever wrote: »
the snowflakes and top players like having something to hold over the heads of us casuals, and now.... vma and vdsa weapons wont be part of that!
the forums are burning and their tears are very amusing.
those that can do vma in 3o minutes will just have to suck it up and regrind for them.
this is an mmo, so get to that grind!

couple of points here:

-i welcome the change because after years of being locked out of obtaining them, i can actually get them from cruising through normal and not worrying about if i can complete the activity.

-so what if i am “not good enough” to beat veteran mode? the more players who have even the normal versions of the gear benefits the community as a whole because more players will have better items to help them advance into veteran content. this will help players who want to get better to be able to be accepted more easily into progressions and such.

seems to me that ppl have the same attitude when they see other classes get the nerfe hammer.... My class got reck last patch. now u get it too ..

Why should Veteran Arena players get punished that you could not do it?.. I'm happy you will get a normal arena weapons.

Alot of people have put in tons of houres to learn it and get those rewards, and now we have to accept that the first prize gold medal became a shared bronze medal in a patch ?...

[Edit to remove bait]

xaraan

If the best option for my build now is a vMA weapon and I ran and earned one for that reason. And the best option remains a vMA weapon after the patch, then I shouldn't somehow magically be behind someone running and earning a vMA weapon that day.

LeHarrt91

Just give the old vMA weapons back the bonus they originally had but took from them. And add a version without the bonus to normal MA.
And do the same with vDSA give the original bonus back, just use the old code.

Elsonso

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just give the old vMA weapons back the bonus they originally had but took from them. And add a version without the bonus to normal MA.

That won't work. The old weapons used enchantments.

Easier to just leave the current weapons alone, stat-wise, but rename them "Perfected". This would be what they drop in the veteran arenas. Then, create a nerfed version to hand out in normal.

TradoTheOne

Its basically a participant trophy for all IMO. Talking about devaluing players time and effort IF they choose to not auto upgrade.

I don't want to sound too silly, but I kinda see it as giving out current trial skins or personalities for normal runs, it devalues it. (Yea, im a sucker for that stuff)

Im all up for people getting good weapons, since im currently a tanky boi and I love my dps to burn and nuke as much as possible BUT getting that weapon will not necessarily bring you to "holy ***" level.

But grinding vMA a ton of times again without any changes in the arena is just a plain, old and simple gg Zenimax.

LeHarrt91

Elsonso wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just give the old vMA weapons back the bonus they originally had but took from them. And add a version without the bonus to normal MA.

That won't work. The old weapons used enchantments.

Easier to just leave the current weapons alone, stat-wise, but rename them "Perfected". This would be what they drop in the veteran arenas. Then, create a nerfed version to hand out in normal.

As others have said can they add a 1 piece bonus to current vet (perfected) then normal drops without 1 piece?

Elsonso

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just give the old vMA weapons back the bonus they originally had but took from them. And add a version without the bonus to normal MA.

That won't work. The old weapons used enchantments.

Easier to just leave the current weapons alone, stat-wise, but rename them "Perfected". This would be what they drop in the veteran arenas. Then, create a nerfed version to hand out in normal.

As others have said can they add a 1 piece bonus to current vet (perfected) then normal drops without 1 piece?

I see what you are saying. Yeah, that could mess things up.

morrowjen

Selminus wrote: »

I think the best route here is to increase and diversify what you can get in VMA overall meaning it does not have to be gear. The 8 arenas leading up to the final have little to no value to most players. Then you may not even get weapons you need. Broaden the VMA loot and you will kill two birds with one stone. Motifs, Style books, whatever. Those first 8 chests are where I think you solve the reward versus time investment issue.

vMA is not just solo but also mind numbing for a lot of players. Until/unless they fix the final drop people are going to have a problem with the amount of time it requires. I stopped doing it a while back not out of frustration or being stuck (I progressed past the arena I was stuck in) but because once I cleared that arena I realized that I didn't want to to go back and spend more time there only to get a reward I couldn't/wouldn't use. I just couldn't get past the thought that I was doing it all for nothing because the final reward was RNG based and very likely wouldn't be what I needed.

With vDSA I took friends knowing that I'd eventually get the weapon I needed within a reasonable number of tries. We all needed bows and agreed that once we got our own bow the next bow went to the next one of us that needed it. Content that is long and at times boring/grindy and/or difficult is also just lot easier to deal with when you're complaining, cursing, and laughing with your friends about it together.

The loot could definitely be better in the lead up and that would help but ultimately I want the vMA bow but I don't want to spend the amount of time that the arena requires to clear it without a guarantee that I'll ever get what I need. If I know that I will get it then I have very little problem with the time investment -- it's the not knowing if it will take 1 or 1000 clears to get it plus it being a long drawn out affair that gives me pause and ultimately caused me to put progressing through vMA on pause (and tbh, I'm glad I did given the whole perfected weapons mess we've got now). Although, I suppose a cool enough skin might be a reward that would draw me back to finish it even without a guaranteed drop.

MLGProPlayer

N

TradoTheOne wrote: »

Its basically a participant trophy for all IMO. Talking about devaluing players time and effort IF they choose to not auto upgrade.

I don't want to sound too silly, but I kinda see it as giving out current trial skins or personalities for normal runs, it devalues it. (Yea, im a sucker for that stuff)

Im all up for people getting good weapons, since im currently a tanky boi and I love my dps to burn and nuke as much as possible BUT getting that weapon will not necessarily bring you to "holy ***" level.

But grinding vMA a ton of times again without any changes in the arena is just a plain, old and simple gg Zenimax.

I don't give a *** about them "devaluing" the weapon. They could give it away for free for all I care. What I care about is having to re-run content I've already run a million times.