VMA and VDSA weapons will have perfected versions but your weapon won't be upgraded automatically.

Jaimeh · April 2020

I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took a vMA grind to the face.

Surak73 · April 2020

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

They want people to keep playing/grinding, pure and simple.

Oh, yes. In this case, they want people to play/grind another game, pure and simple... I'm just glad that Greymoor is not on presale for PS4 yet, so I haven't spent my money. Smart move, zos...

Lady_Sleepless · April 2020

Why does ZOS always release all the info for a new Chapter, it sounds great until the PTS then they always announce some new change that just sounds ridiculous.
Shame on me for thinking this would be different.

WildRaptorX · April 2020

Matchimus · April 2020

Why not leave current as is with adjustments to stats, and then drop new 'unperfected' weapons on normal?

Vaoh · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

It's an Id in a data table, just like when they nerfed it, they updated the base item which affected all instances of it.

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Just clone the existing Id for non perfected, update the original to perfected. 5minute job for a grad developer on pittance pay.

The thing is that these people are not stupid, and they are not blind to what players want. If it was simply a matter that a grad student could have done in 5 minutes, then I would expect that they would be doing it. They are not evil, and they are not deliberately mean. If we start to assume that they are doing this for no good reason, or just to be mean, or just because they don't listen, we might as well blame it on 5G cell towers.

Now, I could be wrong. I am not an insider. It just seems implausible that this is just some arbitrary decision to avoid "5 minutes of work".

The purpose is to make us regrind vMA and vDSA. In particular vMA. That is a massive time investment.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Caelc wrote: »

it may not be possible to upgrade them automatically. its not the same as changing a set stat. These will have the blue versions still in the game so they may not be able to differentiate what was already farmed and what was farmed after the patch.

That's absurd. They've edited things before so they can edit these as well

They have specifically edited vMA weapons before so we know for a fact it can be done. Their effect used to just be an enchantment but they changed it to a 1pc set bonus because iirc people were accidentally changing the enchantment without knowing what they were doing. So they could just as easily change all existing weapons to the perfected versions with a 2pc bonus.

Elsonso · April 2020

Vaoh wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

It's an Id in a data table, just like when they nerfed it, they updated the base item which affected all instances of it.

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Just clone the existing Id for non perfected, update the original to perfected. 5minute job for a grad developer on pittance pay.

The thing is that these people are not stupid, and they are not blind to what players want. If it was simply a matter that a grad student could have done in 5 minutes, then I would expect that they would be doing it. They are not evil, and they are not deliberately mean. If we start to assume that they are doing this for no good reason, or just to be mean, or just because they don't listen, we might as well blame it on 5G cell towers.

Now, I could be wrong. I am not an insider. It just seems implausible that this is just some arbitrary decision to avoid "5 minutes of work".

The purpose is to make us regrind vMA and vDSA. In particular vMA. That is a massive time investment.

They would have to be monumentally stupid to come up with something like that. "Let's *** some of our top players off, invalidate dozens or hundreds of hours of their work, and drive them away, that way they have to spend more time in our game."

I don't think they are that stupid.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2020

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

And what’s funny is It seems like no one is against the actual change. I think people are cool with adding perfected, but the fact that they won’t upgrade the current weapons of people who proved they beat vMA and vDSA is what has everyone (like me) upset.

If they pushed these changes AND upgraded the weapons of current winners to perfected, this whole this gets near-universal praise. It blows my mind that ZOS continues to just shoot themselves in the foot and face with all these weird decisions.

Then you remember that the Wrothgar event and sales come out at the end of the summer, conveniently right after these updates will take place...

You are completely right.

This should have been an easy public relations coup for them: adopt a request that players have been asking for for years and reward newer players and veteran players alike. We would be building statues of them!

Instead? Well... suffice to say that it is a unique power to so consistently snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Matchimus · April 2020

Im becoming a bit cynical these day with the amount of blatant manipulation that goes on by companies and media. Do you think they announced this knowing they were never going to do it? How good will they look when they can sprout they have listened to feedback?

Fortunatto · April 2020

having non perfect weapons for normal and perfect on vet is good idea, really
not updating already earned on vet weapons to perfected version is terrible idea, and I do hope they'll reconsider : c I`ve grinded vma for years and hours to get weapons enough for all my 18 characters, now I`ll have to do it again, on the mandatory when I would prefered to conquer new content and return to vma sometimes for quick enjoyable run when I would want to, not when I have to.... : C

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

It's an Id in a data table, just like when they nerfed it, they updated the base item which affected all instances of it.

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Just clone the existing Id for non perfected, update the original to perfected. 5minute job for a grad developer on pittance pay.

The thing is that these people are not stupid, and they are not blind to what players want. If it was simply a matter that a grad student could have done in 5 minutes, then I would expect that they would be doing it. They are not evil, and they are not deliberately mean. If we start to assume that they are doing this for no good reason, or just to be mean, or just because they don't listen, we might as well blame it on 5G cell towers.

Now, I could be wrong. I am not an insider. It just seems implausible that this is just some arbitrary decision to avoid "5 minutes of work".

The purpose is to make us regrind vMA and vDSA. In particular vMA. That is a massive time investment.

They would have to be monumentally stupid to come up with something like that. "Let's *** some of our top players off, invalidate dozens or hundreds of hours of their work, and drive them away, that way they have to spend more time in our game." I don't think they are that stupid.

They love making old content relevant to keep selling DLC. Endless celebration events, releasing new motifs specific to old zones (example being the upcoming New Moon Acolyte motif finally being released in Southern Elsewyr 6 months after the Dragonhold DLC released). It doesn't surprise me to see this happen either. It forces new and old players to flock back to Orsinium to get the coveted Maelstrom weapons that people have been drooling over since they were first released. Same goes for Craglorn and DSA but imo vMA is more iconic so that's my "go to" example.

People who couldn't complete the vet versions are obviously going to be happy to go back and rerun it because they finally get to have the weapons and I am happy for them as well but vet players are going to feel screwed over and rightfully so. Countless hours of their time gone because now their weapons they earned on vet are the exact same as the weapons people are earning on normal.

I'm usually one to find people who call for compensation ridiculous but this time it is actually warranted because rewards are essentially being stripped from people who earned them. No they aren't physically being taken from us but personally having spent hours upon hours in vMA and obtaining the rewards from it and now I am told my rewards are the same as spending a significantly less amount of time in normal mode feels like they are. I can't get that time back and now I have to spend even more time doing it all over again and not even be guaranteed the weapon I want/need for my build. I want to play new content, not constantly replay the same content from 4+ years ago.

UntilValhalla13 · April 2020

Explain to my wallet why I should bother next patch, ZOS. Go on. I can wait.

Malmai · April 2020

Just fix the god damn performance and stop misleading people to forget with nerfs and stuff...

Elsonso · April 2020

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

They love making old content relevant to keep selling DLC. Endless celebration events, releasing new motifs specific to old zones (example being the upcoming New Moon Acolyte motif finally being released in Southern Elsewyr 6 months after the Dragonhold DLC released). It doesn't surprise me to see this happen either. It forces new and old players to flock back to Orsinium to get the coveted Maelstrom weapons that people have been drooling over since they were first released. Same goes for Craglorn and DSA but imo vMA is more iconic so that's my "go to" example.

The theory that they are doing this to distract us from something in those 50 pages of patch notes is a better theory than this.

Knowledge · April 2020

In the very least, they could make it so for each run we completed after the patch we could "Perfect" one of our currently stowed weapons if it was earned prior to the change in an effort to lessen the RNG.

It's not ideal but give us something.

gronoxvx · April 2020

So making us grind old (AND STILL BROKEN) content for perfected VMA weapons? This is insane if it goes through.

Kolzki · April 2020

Just wait for complaints about running normal vma 70 times to get nothing but shields and ice staves.

CleymenZero · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

They can change a set bonus and name on a whim but not rename current vMA weapons and add a bonus to them?

You must've been using sarcasm and I just didn't get it...

Agenericname · April 2020

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

It's an Id in a data table, just like when they nerfed it, they updated the base item which affected all instances of it.

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Just clone the existing Id for non perfected, update the original to perfected. 5minute job for a grad developer on pittance pay.

The thing is that these people are not stupid, and they are not blind to what players want. If it was simply a matter that a grad student could have done in 5 minutes, then I would expect that they would be doing it. They are not evil, and they are not deliberately mean. If we start to assume that they are doing this for no good reason, or just to be mean, or just because they don't listen, we might as well blame it on 5G cell towers.

Now, I could be wrong. I am not an insider. It just seems implausible that this is just some arbitrary decision to avoid "5 minutes of work".

This is an MMO... they're designed to be as grind-y and addictive as possible. They have teams of analysts and even psychologists whose job it is to ensure that people are playing as much as possible.

This is absolutely intentional from that standpoint. They make tweaks/nerfs/buffs to sets all the time that are applied to existing sets during patches- remember Ravager, Veiled Heritance, Elemental Succession, Iceheart, etc etc etc. There is zero chance that there's no way to change existing vMA weaps to their perfected versions during this update.

They want people to keep playing/grinding, pure and simple.

They could, you know, fix the game. That would make some of the content more fun to run. Crazy Idea, I know.

Elsonso · April 2020

CleymenZero wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

They can change a set bonus and name on a whim but not rename current vMA weapons and add a bonus to them?

You do a good job adding to my point. If it is so simple to upgrade, then I think they would have done it, or will do it before it goes live. I don't subscribe to the conspiracies about wanting people to grind so they spend more time in the game, or some convoluted theory about sales of the game, that they are just mean, that they are stupid or clueless, or even that there must be something worse in the patch notes and this is a distraction. They might prove me wrong. They have in the past. Until that happens, I gotta figure that there is more to this than we are able to see.

Banana · April 2020

I think it's part of the performance improvements. If enough people quit, maybe performance improvements.

Saepio · April 2020

If you don't automatically perfect our already painfully farmed vMA weapons ZOS, then you are basically telling the players that have ground out vMA for the weapons they wanted to go F ourselves.

Luckylancer · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

You can npt imagine how easy it will be. Change the name of items, buff them and done. Your wepaosn wont be changed with another, their names and bonuses will change.

Vaoh · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

It's an Id in a data table, just like when they nerfed it, they updated the base item which affected all instances of it.

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Just clone the existing Id for non perfected, update the original to perfected. 5minute job for a grad developer on pittance pay.

The thing is that these people are not stupid, and they are not blind to what players want. If it was simply a matter that a grad student could have done in 5 minutes, then I would expect that they would be doing it. They are not evil, and they are not deliberately mean. If we start to assume that they are doing this for no good reason, or just to be mean, or just because they don't listen, we might as well blame it on 5G cell towers.

Now, I could be wrong. I am not an insider. It just seems implausible that this is just some arbitrary decision to avoid "5 minutes of work".

The purpose is to make us regrind vMA and vDSA. In particular vMA. That is a massive time investment.

They would have to be monumentally stupid to come up with something like that. "Let's *** some of our top players off, invalidate dozens or hundreds of hours of their work, and drive them away, that way they have to spend more time in our game." I don't think they are that stupid.

You give them far too much credit. From massive DoT buffs to massive DoT nerfs, to entertaining the idea of a 78% Light Attack Damage nerf and putting it on PTS, to cast times on shields, to cast times on Ults, to breaking Block. Could go on for awhile.

Fantastic game being damaged by out-of-touch Devs.

AlayneStone · April 2020

They just really don't care, well i won't be buying your new update if i have to sit in vma to refarm all my weapons back for multiple toons.....that is if i even still play your game.

redTechInc · April 2020

If you really think this *** up of a game needs to have years old content farmed again, then you're more than delusional ZoS. Removing the original bonus, nerfing the weapons, buffing the affected skills so much that the weapons get buffed indirectly, and now you come up with this massive middle-finger to everyone who spent their time in the vma.

THE CONTENT HAS ALREADY BEEN PROPERLY CLEARED BY ALL THOSE WITH VMA WEAPONS!!! There is NO, literally NOT A SINGLE reason why it's not your duty to upgrade the existing weapons of all those people who farmed their weapons for years.

Either upgrade the weapons or at the VERY LEAST let vet-version drops be CHOOSEABLE. This really stinks.

Nomadic_Atmoran · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

It's an Id in a data table, just like when they nerfed it, they updated the base item which affected all instances of it.

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Just clone the existing Id for non perfected, update the original to perfected. 5minute job for a grad developer on pittance pay.

The thing is that these people are not stupid, and they are not blind to what players want. If it was simply a matter that a grad student could have done in 5 minutes, then I would expect that they would be doing it. They are not evil, and they are not deliberately mean. If we start to assume that they are doing this for no good reason, or just to be mean, or just because they don't listen, we might as well blame it on 5G cell towers.

Now, I could be wrong. I am not an insider. It just seems implausible that this is just some arbitrary decision to avoid "5 minutes of work".

This is an MMO... they're designed to be as grind-y and addictive as possible. They have teams of analysts and even psychologists whose job it is to ensure that people are playing as much as possible.

This is absolutely intentional from that standpoint. They make tweaks/nerfs/buffs to sets all the time that are applied to existing sets during patches- remember Ravager, Veiled Heritance, Elemental Succession, Iceheart, etc etc etc. There is zero chance that there's no way to change existing vMA weaps to their perfected versions during this update.

They want people to keep playing/grinding, pure and simple.

No team of analysts or psychologists are going to come up with something like this. They don't hook people by being intentionally mean to them.

The analysts and psychologists are there to advise and inform the decision makers. From the companies perspective theres nothing "mean" about this. Being mean requires there to be something personal there. This is what "business" is like. They look for ways of exploiting peoples wants and needs to turn a profit.

Analytics have a way of breaking down human behavior into observable patterns. So its very likely that the analysts have found patterns in players behavior that show that the more they are online the more likely they are to make purchases. Grindy mechanisms like VMA is a way of keeping players engaged for long periods of time with the promise of some shiny reward.

Companies also tend to give themselves goals of increased activity in certain areas that might be lacking in sales or interest. Areas they feel they aren't capitalizing on nearly enough. Adding new rewards to VMA indicates they want to drive more solo player activity in hopes of driving more sales somewhere. There is likely a connection between solo player activity and the sale of something in their store they hope to take advantage of.

Rezdayn · April 2020

I already dont log in much these days... this makes me happy I dont...

Eyllora · April 2020

Personally, I don't see the point of the whole thing at the first place.
I don't understand why such powerful weapons would drop from normal
1) If people can't go through vet, they don't really need these weapons I suppose, cos they are not able to go through difficult solo content not because of the lack of DPS, but because they probably lack of experience in general, or adaptability, or rigor. And this is exactly what we learn from the vet version !
2) Getting weapons from vet version is a whole tradition in ESO. It's like a ritual of passage. There is a before and an after.
This feeling should remain. Zos, explain me while you seem to thing that the challenge is to upgrade the blue version (that will drop in normal) to golden version ?!
What's the next step ? Monster sets dropping from normal too ??

I've been lucky enough not to have to grind my weapons, cos I got what I needed super fast. But people have spent so much time in this arena, especially before transmutation. And you want to put them back here to go after a perfected version : oh my, it has to be really worth it, especially considering the current state of the performance (lags, desync., ...)
So far I've done Vet Maelstrom Arena only during event so I've considered I've done hard mode only. But I guess the real HM will be the whole server going after the new weapons at the same time, while the game can't even handle two persons in the same delve in Shadowfen.

And though, the solution is right in front of your eyes ZOS, yes.
We have been asking for YEARS ! We all want it !
Zos, seriously, give us a NEW SOLO ARENA !!!
If it pleases you so much, there would be a normal version, challenging enough to justify that nice weapons drop.(Which is absolutely not the case for MA at the moment)
And there would be a vet with perfected great weapons.
Everybody would be so happy and you would avoid to see this kind of topic where people basically express nothing but (justified) bitterness.

I don't see any logic behind this decision, but maybe it'll come with the whole patch notes on Monday. Might it be it related to the coming Antiquities system and they want to give all sorts of possibilities for builds to everyone ? Maybe we need more context, and in this case, weird choice of communication there for a change that can't be satisfying for long term players, but I guess long term players aren't really Zos concerns.