VMA and VDSA weapons will have perfected versions but your weapon won't be upgraded automatically.

blkjag

Shocking the people who actually defend this change. I guess you guys are pumped to finally get them on normal.

JusticeSouldier

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Where is answer to our question?
@ZOS_GinaBruno What is official Zeminax position about such attitude to playerbase in details?
@ZOS_BrianWheeler Where is your responsibility?

@Gilliamtherogue how???

Emmagoldman

It's sadly a cycle of mmos to get you doing the same old content over and over again. I personally don't have the energy at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if at one point there will be perfected monster helms.

Lisutaris

@ZOS_RichLambert

Why not just add a glow to these vmsa weapons, you know ... like from the craglorn dungeons or MoL. That they have the same stats like on normal, but more shiny effects. And ofc, ugprade old vet weapons with that effect.
Stats are not the main problem here, letting ppl regrind the **** all over again if they want the BIS (from vet content) is.

There were sooo many acceptable ideas ! Be it adding a new stage, re-designing it so that norm is single player mode and vet is 4 player mode.... sooo many interesting ideas. But all of them got ignored.

NO-ONE cares if you grant these (original) weapons for completing normal mode. Veteran BIS grinder (like myself) did it to have the ... "BIS" items for the last years. Now you make old content a new grindfest again. That's pretty uncool.
Feels like a slap in the face for time/effort invested ... some ppl did more than ~200+ runs to get all of their gear. Even with 45mins average that are still 150 !!! HOURS !!! --> 1 MONTH FULL TIME JOB.

Why do i make this comparison ? If the car thingy is a good comparison .... let's see.... ESO should be a game -> making fun -> being a hobby -> not feeling like a second job.

Now alot of ppl will say, ahhh they new set bonus is not so important, its not soo strong, you don't need it ... NO1 needed vmsa weapons to complete content or be good for veteran dugeons/trials... but if you want to maximize your stats/effeciency you "had" to grind them.
With that lazy rework, people who want(ed) to have the BIS Gear or "keep it", have to re-grind it again. No new content, not really "new arena weapons", more like the old "pre-nerf" ones.

(But I also like a lot of the recent changes to the combat system itself, so ... for that ... good job ! Also the ideas for new heavy/light attacks are/were interesting/refreshing and with some fine-tuning could be a nice way to improve combat.
Fixing perfomance issues and lags should be priority tho'.... And yes, as a subscriber for years I have some expectations for a AAA(=triple A) Company) (and also high hopes that they can meet these expectations)
For VMSA (and DSA) I can only repeat myself.

starkerealm

Emmagoldman wrote: »

It's sadly a cycle of mmos to get you doing the same old content over and over again. I personally don't have the energy at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if at one point there will be perfected monster helms.

Yeah, but those would take a HM clear.

shaielzafine

So next time one of the devs feel like it, will we be getting perfected weapons from normal & super perfected from vMA / vDSA?

Growlspirit

Is this really going live?

mavfin

Growlspirit wrote: »

Is this really going live?

It IS live, and has been since last week.

IonicKai

Here the thing. I am guessing they were looking to test the waters with this for one of a few reasons. The most obvious that comes to mind is that they may be looking at updating crag gear to be have perfected versions drop (which could previously be obtained from vet or normal and they likely don't mark which you got the item from). My issue is that here we knew that all current vma and vdsa weapons only dropped in vet and you are changing the vet content reward.

Many have argued the TV or Car analogy which isn't really equivalent though I understand why some feel that way. The issue here is that ESO generally speaking has tried to cater to keeping long term gear and has since One Tamriel update. They have also adjusted these weapons before which means they are more than capable of doing so. I think they didn't want to bother in order to get people to go grind those arenas again but they are such a tedious rng grind that none of the players who have spent countless hours in there really want to go back. It's dumb that we could THE SAME CONTENT the day before patch and get a different (not actually new) drop because it happens to be a new patch drop that adjusts the vet reward.

PS: I'm all for non perfected dropping in normal and have advocated for it. That said a vet reward should not be screwed over when a reward was only available from vet completes before.

CleymenZero

I think there is a possibility that they started with this because they would revisit other content and do perfected sets like Perfected Alkosh and Perfected VO.

So the reason they don't wanna budge may be because they want to revisit other sets but they don't understand that it's not the same thing.

vMA and vDSA weapons only dropped on vet but VO and Alkosh dropped on both vet and normal. There being no way to distinguish which piece was received in what difficulty, I would not be against farming perfected VO in vet.

So really, if they're not budging because they want to be able to revisit other sets, they just have to consider that the means of acquisition are simply not the same. I believe it would be ok to refarm perfected VO therefore not upgrade current VO to perfected in any case but it's a terribly bad call to not upgrade the vMA and vDSA weapons.

what_the

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

A nerf is when something gets worse after a patch. But all already owned weapons stay exactly the same, just a new version gets introduced.
The same happens every year with the release of a new TV. Do you run to your TV retailer and yell at them that your TV got nerfed?

When you have done the SAME AREA around 50 times to get what is supposed to be the "top tier loot" and suddenly ZOS comes and tells you: "You know what? Your BiS loot will actually become the weakened version of what will now drop in vMA and you have to run it another 50 times", then yes. Its a nerf
Your example makes no sense.

His example is accurate.
Those weapons were "top teir loot", now there are newer, better weapons to farm for in Vma..
You're earned weapon has not changed. If you want the new weapon, go out and earn that one, or keep and use the one you have, there is nothing wrong with it.
It doesn't matter if someone ran Vma once or a thousand times (it was a persons choice to do so, nobody forced anyone to run it), I don't recall seeing a "lifetime guarantee" sticker on ANY of the items earned in Vma.

zvavi

what_the wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

A nerf is when something gets worse after a patch. But all already owned weapons stay exactly the same, just a new version gets introduced.
The same happens every year with the release of a new TV. Do you run to your TV retailer and yell at them that your TV got nerfed?

When you have done the SAME AREA around 50 times to get what is supposed to be the "top tier loot" and suddenly ZOS comes and tells you: "You know what? Your BiS loot will actually become the weakened version of what will now drop in vMA and you have to run it another 50 times", then yes. Its a nerf
Your example makes no sense.

His example is accurate.
Those weapons were "top teir loot", now there are newer, better weapons to farm for in Vma..
You're earned weapon has not changed. If you want the new weapon, go out and earn that one, or keep and use the one you have, there is nothing wrong with it.
It doesn't matter if someone ran Vma once or a thousand times (it was a persons choice to do so, nobody forced anyone to run it), I don't recall seeing a "lifetime guarantee" sticker on ANY of the items earned in Vma.

By that same logic it is entirely ok for them to higher gear cap. Like you know, when they rework CP, suddenly all your gear is outdated. I mean. I am not ok with it, if you are, go play WoW where all your gear is outdated every dlc.

Taleof2Cities

Well, my very first run after the patch was a Perfected Inferno Staff.

Still no Winterborn Ice Staff, however, after 70+ runs before the patch.

This time it was a Succession Resto Staff.

MEBengalsFan2001

Moose_Scout wrote: »

It took me a year to get the Master's Bow. When it finally dropped, I was shaking with excitement. Now it is just a piece-of-junk? I spend all my time in PVP. I specifically built a good PVE character, a magblade, to do vDSA. Now magblades are worthless, my gear is going to be worthless... pretty depressing really.

ZOS, you are invalidating our decisions to spend our TIME, our most valuable asset, in your game.

But ZOS gives zero craps about what the community thinks at this point. The game is big enough they will just look at overall stats and trends but ignore the player base that has made the game what it is. I joined in January 2015. Because of moves like this during this cycle, this will be the first month of canceling my ESO+ sub.

Way to screw long-time-players.

Every other MMO I have played you change your gear in the MMO like people should change their underwear, often. What is great today is tomorrow trash. This game isn't like that given the CP system it has for gear. Many of you are complaining about this game and needing to redo the content for the perfect weapon. I'm like cool, something else to do. The grind in this game for gear isn't bad and quite frankly is one of the better system I have seen in any game.

Xebov

shaielzafine wrote: »

So next time one of the devs feel like it, will we be getting perfected weapons from normal & super perfected from vMA / vDSA?

You dont realy understand the idea behind it?

Prior this Patch all weapon sets where all over the place. There was no common rule for how they behaved, what bonuses they got or how they dropped. This patch equalized it. Now all weapon sets follow the exact same rule. This makes adding new ones in the future easier.

Also following all the changes its possible that mol and the craiglorn trials might receive perfected versions of the sets for vet in the future. This would be logical to streamline trials gear.

silvereyes

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Well, my very first run after the patch was a Perfected Inferno Staff.

Congrats!

SirMewser

Their inability to be congruent with their continuity within their statement/analogy was idiotically not fully thought through.

As an example:
Iceheart was an "old car" and Mother Ciannait was the "new car".
Iceheart was nerfed (like a dealer walking up to your vehicle with a sledge hammer), in favour for advertently making Mother Ciannait seem more appealing in order to sell new content. Do car dealers actually do this? No.

Car dealers who do that (if they existed, which they do not) would lose service/customers; that is concurrent to this game, should it be so (except that behaviour from developers - does exist... Repeatedly).

What's also more baffling is that the car analogy statement only seems to apply in their rules, selectively. If a nerf or any other past change has happened, your old gear received that change.
Maelstrom and Dragonstar weapons once had status bonuses that were removed in the Clockwork city update v3.2.0.

Either the dev actually (and wrongfully) believed that this behaviour was reflective of sales practices within the real world or said it as a tactic to manipulate as it would imply a maliciously display of a power-over dynamic to the service user, via subjugation. All that did was make people distrust ZoS.

They keep removing this comment!

silvereyes

SirMewser wrote: »

Iceheart was an "old car" and Mother Ciannait was the "new car".

Give it a rest, my friend. That horse is thoroughly dead.

DigitalHype

shaielzafine wrote: »

So next time one of the devs feel like it, will we be getting perfected weapons from normal & super perfected from vMA / vDSA?

Thats right hamster. Now get back up on that wheel and run!

CleymenZero

silvereyes wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

Iceheart was an "old car" and Mother Ciannait was the "new car".

Give it a rest, my friend. That horse is thoroughly dead.

Wym?

Is there a problem with using previous decisions to expose a double standard or lapse in judgement?

silvereyes

CleymenZero wrote: »

Is there a problem with using previous decisions to expose a double standard or lapse in judgement?

Nothing whatsoever. It's just been rehashed so much at this point, and U26 is dropped. They aren't going back.

Feel free to read back through the other 16 pages of this thread, or the 37 pages of the U26 combat preview thread (on which SirMewser cross-posted the same thing, I might add) or the 15 pages on the Rich Lambert's stance thread if you want to replay the greatest hits.

JusticeSouldier

it's not, same as in real life, if no one give feedback - nothing happends.
few people talk about it - something may happend.
but the more we talk about Problem, the stronger is our force to make it priority or must to be one.
and, i'm not naive in this, it's simple mechanics, which if to take examples from real life removed 90+% of dictators from their thrones, changed lifes, reality in general.

@ZOS_GinaBruno guys, with such attitude to customer's time and efforts u done cryme to community, apologize please, change policy direction back to creating real community (with real communication!) instead of ruining it with short-sighted monetization like u done in this case.

Imperial_Archmage

I see a lot of folks pointing out that in other games each new expansion (or DLC to use ESO terms) comes with new gear making the old one obsolete. While this is certainly true it has absolutely no bearing on the perfected arena weapons issue for one simple reason: the new reward is not obtained from doing new content. Yes, it’s true that games like WoW make old gear obsolete with each new expansion but acquiring the new gear comes from and encourages participation in brand new content. Now if these new, better, weapons came from doing a brand new arena in, say, Blackreach that would have been a whole other situation but that is simply not the case here.

This change made weapons acquired from the exact same content as before essentially weaker from one patch to the next by introducing better versions for doing the same old content with no difference in difficulty. It’s a bad change any way you look at it. Fortunately, the new “perfected” versions are for the most part such minor upgrades that the vast majority of players (especially those who spend hundreds of hours in those arenas) will be completely justified in not doing them.

I for one do not enjoy the play style that is required for easily doing the arenas (such as playing a sorcerer with pets that does essentially nothing but spams a shield while the pets slowly and painfully burn down everything) and so don’t plan on ever going back there again, just as I haven’t since I got my inferno staff after my 6th or 7th try in there (fortunately for me I never went into the vMSA until after we could transmute traits). It’s become clear by now that the developers won’t back down on this charge, or even offer an explanation for it (likely because there is none), so my advice to everyone is to just not set foot in there again. Think of it as a form of protest if you like.

CleymenZero

silvereyes wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Is there a problem with using previous decisions to expose a double standard or lapse in judgement?

Nothing whatsoever. It's just been rehashed so much at this point, and U26 is dropped. They aren't going back.

Feel free to read back through the other 16 pages of this thread, or the 37 pages of the U26 combat preview thread (on which SirMewser cross-posted the same thing, I might add) or the 15 pages on the Rich Lambert's stance thread if you want to replay the greatest hits.

Yet Rich claimed in his last interview that a small amount of players were against hits choice of not upgrading.

A small amount considering the dead accounts, the ones who don't even know what an arena weapon is, who don't know the core of the issue.

Basically, out of all who bothered answering the threads, about 80%+ of them were against.

Also, the more he hears about something, the les likely he is to repeat that.

The team has already seem souch opposition this year. The one before was Iceheart and they backtracked on it. They won't for arena weapons but it's good to let them know what we think.