VMA and VDSA weapons will have perfected versions but your weapon won't be upgraded automatically.

cosplayerrain

Soooo, ppl will be able to do Normal and get the same stuff that ppl have farmed vet. I think it should be upgraded to perfected automatically.

If a new person comes in and does normal and gets the same weapon that when I first started farming it wasn’t even a guarantee drop on vet doesn’t seem right.

It’s great that they’re giving newer players a more equal playing field. But why make everyone else have to re farm it??

CleymenZero

Elsonso wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

They can change a set bonus and name on a whim but not rename current vMA weapons and add a bonus to them?

You do a good job adding to my point. If it is so simple to upgrade, then I think they would have done it, or will do it before it goes live. I don't subscribe to the conspiracies about wanting people to grind so they spend more time in the game, or some convoluted theory about sales of the game, that they are just mean, that they are stupid or clueless, or even that there must be something worse in the patch notes and this is a distraction. They might prove me wrong. They have in the past. Until that happens, I gotta figure that there is more to this than we are able to see.

That it would be a distraction because there is something worse in the patch notes probably falls into the conspiracy theory but that they would do this move to make people go back into old content is not so far fetched at all lol.

If you spend 5 seconds thinking about it, you'll realize that this move is essentially like increasing gear level.

I play Borderlands 3, Division 2 and both these games JUST increased the level cap and that forces you into a grind frenzy to get your build back to what it was.

Now the infantile mentality of "if they could do it they would" I gotta say I'm always surprised when I hear people say this.

It's data and databases and that can be modified en masse quite easily. It doesn't even require you to code much. I guess a vulgarized version of it would be: create a copy of maelstrom weapon but with different item code (or wtv they use). Modify metadata for current weapons (renaming, changing stats or bonuses wtv). The end.

It's actually much easier to do this than to let's say, design and create an entire zone with quests, voices etc etc.

I don't know how someone could make you understand how trivial it would be to modify current weapons and add the new old-maelstrom entries and tie their drop to normal instances. Like I said, they modified A TON of sets lately. All these sets were all over in guild traders, people's characters, chests in player homes, banks, guild banks. They were all changed. No magic, just modifications to the item metadata and those modifications were applied server-wide.

I really believe it is infantile and submissive to think like that. I'm not attacking them, calling them lazy or wtv so no need to blindly defend them. It's their decision, their choice. They chose to not change old weapons so put you on the same level as the ones who are gonna complete MA on normal minutes or hours after the patch will drop (who knows how long they take to clear nMA...). It's their choice and we either let our voices be heard enough for them to actually either meet the demands of the ones who feel disrespected by this choice or meet them halfway or just stick to their guns and barrel through and risk losing more players not over this one change but over the cummulation of questionable design decisions and a myriad of performance issues.

I don't mind running maelstrom again for perfected. What pisses me off is the gold mats I may have used to upgrade the weapons (a lot were leaderboard rewards but some were upgraded) and the transmutes I have used.

Those weapons having obviously been obtained by clearing vMA, why wouldn't you just modify them from the get go (with the understanding that it is an easy thing to do).

precambria

NAW B, NAW

If it presents a problem for them to update the currently owned items they can mail me the perfected version with a note apologizing for the mixup

Olupajmibanan

I don't want to defend ZoS, their decision is completely stupid. But people acting here like they must do mindless repetitive boring grind only for 1k magicka (example stat) active only on back bar is just as stupid. 1k magicka or 129 weapon damage active only on back bar is not going to magicaly increase your dps, spoiler: you won't see a difference. We had maelstrom weapons without the extra set bonus for how long? Hard modes in trials aren't going to be any easier with Perfected versions.

The only real deal here is Master Resto and Master Lightning (used frequently for Lokkestiiz and Nahviintas). But unlike vMA, 1 clear = 4 chances to get the weapon you want provided you bring friends or buy a loot run.

Thevampirenight

Weapons are weapons some might be very good but there is so many weapons sets and weapon types from other areas of game play that just farming for this one kind is really kind of silly to me. Why not make do with a lessor version?
Even if its not as good why not use it?
Me I would use a blue or green imperfect staff or whatever its not much of a big deal to me.
So Yes they will add a new type of weapon farm to the game or new weapon based on a previous weapon that got nerfed and then reintroduced ( hopefully that isn't the case as that would be a crappy move and I could understand people being upset if it was like that.) if you don't want to do it and you don't want to farm for it then just don't and just stick with what you have.

That is my advice to everyone here, farm if you must but if you don't have to just don't bother. Just use a subpar set or weapon or whatever and you'll do just fine. Don't need Vma or Vdsa Perfect to play the game.

AgentSylo

I agree with the majority, they should automatically be updated to perfected if you already have the weapons, all for the many reasons so many have stated on the forums or YouTube etc.

If they don't change them, then at least make them more meaningful, or a decent reason to re farm them because that little extra stat is pretty worthless, give it bigger buff at least

It just looks like the original Maelstrom weapons, you took the extra stat away, now you're bringing em back and calling them perfected........ Come on.... Smh.

Kalante

I don't mind zos making vets having something to do. This game has become so stale. Ive had those vma weapons since 2016. If they raise the level cap and make some stuff perfected and the gear is worth getting good more things to do and theory craft. It all depends how they go about it.

Neophyte

Kalante wrote: »

I don't mind zos making vets having something to do. This game has become so stale. Ive had those vma weapons since 2016. If they raise the level cap and make some stuff perfected and the gear is worth getting good more things to do and theory craft. It all depends how they go about it.

Something to do ? Can somebody correct me if I’m wrong but if I don’t have ESO+ or own orsinium then this is pay to have a more powerful weapon ?

Nordic__Knights

dickeybarret wrote: »

For one, I'm glad more players will have access to DSA and VMA equipment. Having people geared properly can only help things on the whole. However. Being one that has spent plenty of hours and 100s of runs getting what I need from that place, the notion of having to do that all again sorta makes my stomach turn. Simple solution. IF coding to upgrade everyone who currently has VMA/DSA weapons is too hard, simply mail people the corresponding perfected item if they have a VMA/DSA weapon in their inventory (as since right now the only way to acquire them is through vet) before the patch goes live. Then the people that invested time and effort don't feel like they wasted their time, while still keeping things accessible to the larger playerbase. Just my 2 gold on things...

they cant mail everyone every weapon with enchantment , trait, upgrade lvl as some are on an toon some in bank even some in storage chest , so looking them up and duplicating them all would be more work then just coding them into the new ones

thorwyn

To be honest, I can see both sides. On one hand, those people who are not (yet) up to the level of beating vMA will now get a chance of getting a decent, almost BIS weapon. That's a good thing.
Of course, this devaluates the time and effort of those people who have farmed the weapons in vMA. Not just that, but also the time that went into transmuting all the weapons. Now, we all know the usual cycles in MMOs. All items will eventually rotate out of the meta and will be replaced by better alternatives at some point. However, expecting the players to do farm the content AGAIN is a bit cheeky and, to be honest, lazy. And I don't buy the story that it is not possible to upgrade existing weapons, but if that's what they say, ok.
I think ZOS should come up with at least a gesture of good will when this goes live. Something like 3 weeks of double drops in vMA and vDSA? Maybe a temporary NPC that transmutes perfected vMA/DSA weapons for gold?

AinSoph

Funny how this changes only affects the vets who actually farmed vMA and not the casuals which ZOS is constantly appealing to.

WiseSky

I love this, I have like 10 jubilee boxes on each alt caped at 200 Crystals and so many gold materials finally I get to used them on something

Neophyte

WiseSky wrote: »

I love this, I have like 10 jubilee boxes on each alt caped at 200 Crystals and so many gold materials finally I get to used them on something

If they go through with this the weapons should drop in Gold at least for perfected.

mairwen85

thorwyn wrote: »

To be honest, I can see both sides. On one hand, those people who are not (yet) up to the level of beating vMA will now get a chance of getting a decent, almost BIS weapon. That's a good thing.
Of course, this devaluates the time and effort of those people who have farmed the weapons in vMA. Not just that, but also the time that went into transmuting all the weapons. Now, we all know the usual cycles in MMOs. All items will eventually rotate out of the meta and will be replaced by better alternatives at some point. However, expecting the players to do farm the content AGAIN is a bit cheeky and, to be honest, lazy. And I don't buy the story that it is not possible to upgrade existing weapons, but if that's what they say, ok.
I think ZOS should come up with at least a gesture of good will when this goes live. Something like 3 weeks of double drops in vMA and vDSA? Maybe a temporary NPC that transmutes perfected vMA/DSA weapons for gold?

It doesn't devalue any of my time or effort for non-perfected weapons to drop in nMA and/or nDSA. It does invalidate my time and effort for the rewards which I received from the veteran clears of those arenas to become the non-perfected versions.

I'm not against the introduction of perfect/imperfect weaponry for those arenas. Not at all. The problem is rather that every player who has completed them on vet now has their rewards stripped from them and has to regrind to get what they already had.

Unless current normal is replaced with current vet and a new vet mode is introduced, I can't see any justification for ZOS stance on this.

Haquor

Elsonso wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

I'm a software engineer and can tell you that this is exactly how it would be done, as efficiently as possible. All the current item IDs already drop from vet arenas. Simply update their stats to perfected. You don't even have to change any of the loot tables. Then make new item IDs for the nonperfected weapons. Add those to the loot tables for normal arenas only. Simple.

Right, which simply says that there is more to this than that.

It will be interesting to see if they add to this story with some official reason behind this.

It is 100% to make people grind for more gear. 100%. They want us to spend more time i game and they know people will need the perfected version. Changing the item is easier than changing mechanics and actually making a hardmode to eqrn a perfected item. Nope. Do the same content for a better item cause the one you previously earned is now less valuable. Epic strat zos. Epic strat.

lemonizzle

price101610 wrote: »

Have final drop include a special key like undaunted, then have the maelstrom merchant sell specific weapons for 5 keys each. Kizna could do the same in vdsa.

Something like this, but doing vma once per week gives a guaranteed drop of some token, that can be used at maelstrom vendor to transmute 1 existing weapon to perfected. (Optionally add a chance to obtain these in mid-weekly runs, with a low chance to drop.)
Could be a working compromise between the money machine and veteran players.

Elsonso

CleymenZero wrote: »

Now the mentality of "if they could do it they would" I gotta say I'm always surprised when I hear people say this.

It's data and databases and that can be modified en masse quite easily. It doesn't even require you to code much. I guess a vulgarized version of it would be: create a copy of maelstrom weapon but with different item code (or wtv they use). Modify metadata for current weapons (renaming, changing stats or bonuses wtv). The end.

It's actually much easier to do this than to let's say, design and create an entire zone with quests, voices etc etc.

I *know* and that is my point. People keep commenting about how easy it might be to do this, and it does not matter how easy it is. If that were the issue, then it would be done. It is not the issue.

I am not prepared to go is down the path where people imply that the reason they are not doing this simple thing is de to Conspiracy Theory # ___. Pick your favorite. Money. Forced grind. Distraction. Incompetence. They are psychopaths. I may have missed one.

There is something more to this, and I happen to think that it is more significant than "we want players to grind more". They may want players in that content, but I do not think they are doing this for that reason, or at least, there are more significant reasons.

The funny thing is that, in the past, ZOS has shown a proclivity to be nice to the Maelstrom Arena players and gear holders. That probably contributes to why these weapons are heavily prized, and why this move by ZOS seems like an unprecedented betrayal.

There are only two outcomes to all of this, no matter how much forum energy is expended. First, there is a reason why they cannot, or will not, upgrade existing weapons, and that is something that cannot be changed, and they will not change it. This is my standing position. ZOS has already considered an upgrade, and for whatever good reason that they have, they have decided not to.

Second, ZOS will change their mind and upgrade the weapons, largely based on the feedback from the first 30 to 60 minutes of forum, Stream, and Twitter commentary. I really do not see them doing this, although I will agree with anyone in suggesting that they do.

Haquor wrote: »

It is 100% to make people grind for more gear. 100%. They want us to spend more time i game and they know people will need the perfected version. Changing the item is easier than changing mechanics and actually making a hardmode to eqrn a perfected item. Nope. Do the same content for a better item cause the one you previously earned is now less valuable. Epic strat zos. Epic strat.

Part of the problem with that is this whole "people will need the perfected version" thing. I really wonder how many people actually have this gear. I know it is quite the popular subject with people here in the forum, and with streamers, but we already know that these groups represent just a small portion of the player community.

On top of that, I have to wonder what percentage of the people who actually do have the gear will think that upgrading it to Perfected is going to make that much of a difference. I know there will be a difference, but the overall importance of that difference is likely going to be more "social pressure" than numbers in the game.

So, the real question comes down to how many people will re-grind for the Perfected weapons, given the delta in the numbers. I am going to go out on a limb and say that it is a small number, and that is even assuming that no one leaves the game over this. If people leave the game over this, then even smaller.

I might add that if there is a huge difference in the power of the weapons, then that is probably the reason why they are not automatically upgrading them. That would, overnight, usher in the dawn of a new breed of super characters.

Alucardo

People have stopped doing vDSA now and are waiting for the changes. Well done on ruining the arena for people. At least if they knew it would be upgraded they would still be participating.
Honestly I was so happy when I got my bow and thought I'd never step foot in there again. All aboard the sadness train. Next stop, depressionville.

L2Pissue

But you get a better dopamine rush if u farm these trials and play the game again, none of you even mentioned trait change system

Alinhbo_Tyaka

cosplayerrain wrote: »

Soooo, ppl will be able to do Normal and get the same stuff that ppl have farmed vet. I think it should be upgraded to perfected automatically.

If a new person comes in and does normal and gets the same weapon that when I first started farming it wasn’t even a guarantee drop on vet doesn’t seem right.

It’s great that they’re giving newer players a more equal playing field. But why make everyone else have to re farm it??

That's my feeling. The differentiator between normal and vet MA was vet MA gave the chance at a weapon. The differentiator will be a Perfected weapon as opposed to the old one. It only makes sense that those players that have the current vMA weapon be upgraded as they have met the criteria for the new Perfected weapon.

virtus753

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Weapons are weapons some might be very good but there is so many weapons sets and weapon types from other areas of game play that just farming for this one kind is really kind of silly to me. Why not make do with a lessor version?
Even if its not as good why not use it?
Me I would use a blue or green imperfect staff or whatever its not much of a big deal to me.
So Yes they will add a new type of weapon farm to the game or new weapon based on a previous weapon that got nerfed and then reintroduced ( hopefully that isn't the case as that would be a crappy move and I could understand people being upset if it was like that.) if you don't want to do it and you don't want to farm for it then just don't and just stick with what you have.

That is my advice to everyone here, farm if you must but if you don't have to just don't bother. Just use a subpar set or weapon or whatever and you'll do just fine. Don't need Vma or Vdsa Perfect to play the game.

Speaking for myself, the issue is not the one stat for min/maxing. It’s the fact they’re telling me all my time and effort on vMA was worth jack s. and only qualified me for normal rewards. They are literally telling me to do the same exact content for the upgraded version and treating me as if I’d never cleared vMA at all.

Why not take away the pedestal and titles too?

That’s the problem. It’s a very clear signal that, when given the choice, they have chosen actively to disrespect their players and the time and effort they’ve dedicated to the game.

Suligost

Uuu *** move, nope, nope, nope... still i rather do vMA then vDSA with randoms -.-

NOPE

SidraWillowsky

I hadn't thought about this initially, but I wonder if the reason our weapons aren't getting converted is that this update is going to involve a complete overhaul of MA and DSA. It's really the only reason I can think of for this decision.

Elsonso

virtus753 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, the issue is not the one stat for min/maxing. It’s the fact they’re telling me all my time and effort on vMA was worth jack s. and only qualified me for normal rewards. They are literally telling me to do the same exact content for the upgraded version and treating me as if I’d never cleared vMA at all.

You did the content, and you got the reward you were looking for. They have not said that your reward is changing, so you still have your reward. It has not changed. It is still the same weapon.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

I hadn't thought about this initially, but I wonder if the reason our weapons aren't getting converted is that this update is going to involve a complete overhaul of MA and DSA. It's really the only reason I can think of for this decision.

Then ZOS should have said as much. They could have mentioned that they were being overhauled and as part of that the weapons were changing without giving up any details.

I personally don't think it has to do with any rework but more to do with them adding the weapons to normal modes of the trials [snip]. To make running vMA worthwhile the reward needs to be better than nMA so they provide a Perfected weapon. This makes sense. However to not upgrade those players that have already completed vMA makes no sense and will result in alienating more players. All I can figure is ZOS seems to have forgotten they aren't he only MMO out there.

[edited for bashing]

Royaji

Elsonso wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, the issue is not the one stat for min/maxing. It’s the fact they’re telling me all my time and effort on vMA was worth jack s. and only qualified me for normal rewards. They are literally telling me to do the same exact content for the upgraded version and treating me as if I’d never cleared vMA at all.

You did the content, and you got the reward you were looking for. They have not said that your reward is changing, so you still have your reward. It has not changed. It is still the same weapon.

Except my reward did change. When I have gotten my vMA weapons they still had one-peice set bonuses. When ZOS has removed that bonus, my rewards did indeed change retroactively. Not even talking about those who have gotten those weapons as enchants and not set pieces. So no, it is definitely not the same weapon.

In case of nerfs everything gets changed retroactively, but since this time it is a rare case of something getting buffed it is acceptable for us to re-farm again? This kind of hypocritical thinking is absolutely asinine.

typo

SidraWillowsky

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

I hadn't thought about this initially, but I wonder if the reason our weapons aren't getting converted is that this update is going to involve a complete overhaul of MA and DSA. It's really the only reason I can think of for this decision.

Then ZOS should have said as much. They could have mentioned that they were being overhauled and as part of that the weapons were changing without giving up any details.

I personally don't think it has to do with any rework but more to do with them adding the weapons to normal modes of the trials [snip] To make running vMA worthwhile the reward needs to be better than nMA so they provide a Perfected weapon. This makes sense. However to not upgrade those players that have already completed vMA makes no sense and will result in alienating more players. All I can figure is ZOS seems to have forgotten they aren't he only MMO out there.

Good point... I guess they wouldn't purposefully cause this level of uproar only later to unveil a massive overhaul to the arenas.

[snip]

[edited for bashing]

Elsonso

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

I hadn't thought about this initially, but I wonder if the reason our weapons aren't getting converted is that this update is going to involve a complete overhaul of MA and DSA. It's really the only reason I can think of for this decision.

Then ZOS should have said as much. They could have mentioned that they were being overhauled and as part of that the weapons were changing without giving up any details.

I personally don't think it has to do with any rework but more to do with them adding the weapons to normal modes of the trials and laziness on the part of the developers. To make running vMA worthwhile the reward needs to be better than nMA so they provide a Perfected weapon. This makes sense. However to not upgrade those players that have already completed vMA makes no sense and will result in alienating more players. All I can figure is ZOS seems to have forgotten they aren't he only MMO out there.

Wheeler is on the combat team, so it is not his place to reveal information about any changes being made to the dungeons and arenas. I think he has actually said this, in the past. The comment from Wheeler was also a "sound bite", with no real substance. It was the minimal answer to a question. He should have provided more details, rather than just providing the minimal answer. People would still be raging, but at least they would have a better reason for why they are raging.

Finn is the one that would be talking about an overhaul. He has no reason to comment, since we are on the eve of the patch notes being released. Any such overhaul would be mentioned there.

Royaji wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, the issue is not the one stat for min/maxing. It’s the fact they’re telling me all my time and effort on vMA was worth jack s. and only qualified me for normal rewards. They are literally telling me to do the same exact content for the upgraded version and treating me as if I’d never cleared vMA at all.

You did the content, and you got the reward you were looking for. They have not said that your reward is changing, so you still have your reward. It has not changed. It is still the same weapon.

Except my reward did change. When I have gotten my vMA weapons they still had one-peice set bonuses. When ZOS has removed that bonus, my rewards did indeed change retroactively. Not even talking about those who have gotten those weapons as enchants and not set pieces. So no, it is definitely not the same weapon.

In case of nerfs everything gets changed retroactively, but since this time it is a rare case of something getting buffed it is acceptable for us to re-farm again? This kind of hypocritical thinking is absolutely asinine.

typo

Point taken, but I am willing to wager that you did not throw the weapon in the trash, either.

This time, it does not look like they are making any changes to the weapons, so my point still stands. That means it will be the same weapon that it is today. If you are using it, it will perform the same.

If you had it before the set bonus change you mentioned, and you are still using it, then you have obviously come to terms with that change.

mairwen85

Elsonso wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

I hadn't thought about this initially, but I wonder if the reason our weapons aren't getting converted is that this update is going to involve a complete overhaul of MA and DSA. It's really the only reason I can think of for this decision.

Then ZOS should have said as much. They could have mentioned that they were being overhauled and as part of that the weapons were changing without giving up any details.

I personally don't think it has to do with any rework but more to do with them adding the weapons to normal modes of the trials and laziness on the part of the developers. To make running vMA worthwhile the reward needs to be better than nMA so they provide a Perfected weapon. This makes sense. However to not upgrade those players that have already completed vMA makes no sense and will result in alienating more players. All I can figure is ZOS seems to have forgotten they aren't he only MMO out there.

Wheeler is on the combat team, so it is not his place to reveal information about any changes being made to the dungeons and arenas. I think he has actually said this, in the past. The comment from Wheeler was also a "sound bite", with no real substance. It was the minimal answer to a question. He should have provided more details, rather than just providing the minimal answer. People would still be raging, but at least they would have a better reason for why they are raging.

Finn is the one that would be talking about an overhaul. He has no reason to comment, since we are on the eve of the patch notes being released. Any such overhaul would be mentioned there.

Royaji wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, the issue is not the one stat for min/maxing. It’s the fact they’re telling me all my time and effort on vMA was worth jack s. and only qualified me for normal rewards. They are literally telling me to do the same exact content for the upgraded version and treating me as if I’d never cleared vMA at all.

You did the content, and you got the reward you were looking for. They have not said that your reward is changing, so you still have your reward. It has not changed. It is still the same weapon.

Except my reward did change. When I have gotten my vMA weapons they still had one-peice set bonuses. When ZOS has removed that bonus, my rewards did indeed change retroactively. Not even talking about those who have gotten those weapons as enchants and not set pieces. So no, it is definitely not the same weapon.

In case of nerfs everything gets changed retroactively, but since this time it is a rare case of something getting buffed it is acceptable for us to re-farm again? This kind of hypocritical thinking is absolutely asinine.

typo

Point taken, but I am willing to wager that you did not throw the weapon in the trash, either.

This time, it does not look like they are making any changes to the weapons, so my point still stands. That means it will be the same weapon that it is today. If you are using it, it will perform the same.

If you had it before the set bonus change you mentioned, and you are still using it, then you have obviously come to terms with that change.

I can only assume you haven't cleared vma that you think this is acceptable and continue to make excuses on ZOS behalf. It's not so much about the weapon but the reward. Many of us have worked hard to beat that place and our reward was a shiny piece of gear unavailable by any other means. More to it, vma has been a rite of passage for years, and clearing it is a personal accomplishment embodied in that reward. Now that identical reward is passed out as a participation trophy for completing normal and there is no retroactive recognition for prior achievement. The perfected bonus will be negligible, I am aware of that, but it's plain wrong to downgrade my (and that of many others) achievement and effort. We're talking a matter of principles and straight forward respect for the playerbase.

Raudgrani

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

They have already changed them, at least once - I don't remember more than that (and sent additional shields/1H's), so why on earth wouldn't that be possible? They change set bonuses etc. every update, so of course it's possible.