PTS Combat Test - Discussion Thread

Stevie6

I did some testing on PTS and it wasn't good. I left a post on the feedback thread. This comment is for average joe/casual player. HA damage was lack luster and LA resource sustain wasn't apart of my rotation. I don't have a rotation. lol. So, LA damage shouldn't be changed at all. All modes of attack (LA, MED, HV) should have resource sustain.

Off balance really was not that obvious. HA lightning staff damage was lack luster. If the DEVS are interested in making a change to "raise" the floor, they are really going to have to increase damage output on skills and/or item sets. I'm a really bad player. I was hitting between 18 to 21k dps on the abomination in Deshaan on the live server. On PTS it was about 14 to 18k. The damage output isn't there. I wouldn't worry about the dps gap that exists between players. That will always be there. IF you want low APM to have meaningful dps (30 to 40k) then a crap load of damage is going to have to be added. No joke.

The only play style that worked was to Old PetSorc. Great shields, damage, sustain, and heals rolled into one package. This will get you there if you are serious. If not, continuing on this path will only widen the gap even further.

Gnortranermara

@code65536 nailed it. This is a truly great move for the game. Implementation just needs a few tweaks. Having had time to review a few parse videos, the following points seem perfectly clear:

• A slightly smaller LA nerf (50% imo), along with smaller resource restore (100 instead of 200), would accomplish the stated goals and bring the game to a very reasonable middle ground.
• Keeping the resource restore on medium and heavies is the best move for all playstyles.
• A Minor/Major Respite buff that increases the resource gain (+50 and +100 respectively, subject to CP increase) would be a nice addition. As group buffs, these could consolidate some of the other sources of group resource restoration (Master Resto, Sentinel of Rkugamz, Naviintaas, etc) to constrain the infinite sustain in coordinated trial groups and make players "earn" the extra juice with their LA/MA/HA's.
• Giving Empower a single, consistent function for all basic weapon attacks (LA, MA, and HA) is also the best move for all playstyles. (Templar in particular needs Empower from Solar Barrage to enhance the LA's between Sweeps and Beams, since we get fewer LA's than other classes.)

Onefrkncrzypope

I understand the want to simplify the game but is this simpler? The want to bring heavy attacks into a rotation through nerf and buff method that has been implemented, only shown that bashes are now more important than ever. This means rotations are now even more complex. This fail to complete the objective of simplifying the dps play style.

What I suggest:

Simplify the character sheet. This will give instant feedback to build mechanics. Yes there are addons for that but should there be?

Introduce a rotation feedback system. Bring ui updates to help people with rotations without the use of addons.

introduce achievements that are dedicated to dps milestones. This will guide the new player that wants to just achieve a guiding status update to shoot for.

What this does is NOT CHANGE THE ENTIRE MAKEUP OF A 5 YEAR OLD MECHANIC. why is this important.

ask yourselves: Who will react to this change the best? The "elite players" or the "casuals"
In this case, Elites will be fine and the casuals that are just trying to keep up will be again left behind.

Changing mechanics hurt casuals more than elites. Do you think casuals will know that they are now supposed to bash weave? Know that heavies are great during OB? no, this is not the way to raise the floor. Nerfing hurts everyone. Stabilizing and information raises the floor. Again Nerfs hurts casuals more.

Guide them, Give them hundings/juli pieces instead of prophet crap.
Make the power grind smaller, I'm sorry I started a PC account and its abysmal how leveling feels without CP. I get weaker as I level. Skill options start narrowing(I can use whip on a stam toon until level 10 then it is horrible). There are classes that can't quest and survive without CP.

To get to endgame a casual will take probably a year. Progs for DLC trials will be gone, their class might be nerfed to oblivion, their rotation might suck, they have been getting weaker and weaker and weaker. The retention rate at endgame has to be horrible for this game.

To make the game more casual friendly... make it easier to reach endgame. Don't make getting there(through nerfs) harder.

dontpickmeimbad

I find the idea, that APM is what sets players of different skill levels apart very confusing. In order to do a decent dps rotation (80k+ on the trial dummy) you don't need more than 130 APM. That is about 2 clicks per second and you have 2 hands (most of us at least).
The biggest difficulty in ESO dps rotations is doing those 2 clicks/keystrokes at the right time aka hitting the global cool down as precisely as possible. It's not complex, it doesn't require a lot of APM but it requires a lot of precision.

That said, I do think that LAs should do more damage than HAs as that seems more logical and is more in line with other Elder Scrolls titles and I generally welcome all changes that might bring more variety to combat game play as I find it rather boring when all good builds play out the same (all good builds use exclusively LAs instead of a combination of the two).

TheFM

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

I agree with making LA's restore resources and HA's deal more damage. In fact, it's more accurate to how Elder Scrolls games work.

Honestly, how exactly? As far as I can remember, resource return was never an effect of any kind of attack in any ES game.

Because in Elder scrolls games, Light attacks are the least resource-consuming attacks, while heavy attacks deplete your stamina bar in exchange for greater damage. Having light attacks restore resources and heavy attacks deal more damage is more close to this idea than having light attacks only for damage and heavy attacks for restoring resources

Except this isnt skyrim and it should never EVER play like it. -EVER-.

It's not skyrim and shouldn't be a copy of it, but is an Elder Scrolls game, and it should have at least some resemblances with the original products in the gameplay aspect of the game, not only via places, characters and references. That is the main reason for why FFXIV feels more like wow than a proper Final Fantasy, because besides names and jobs it doesn't have any resemblance with the actual FF franchise.

Also, who said SKyrim? That gameplay applies to Oblivion too, so...

No. They made it clear when the game was released this is not skyrim, it will never be skyrim, and if you are looking for an TES game like skyrim, this is not your game. It is an mmo with fast paced combat, and dumbing it anywhere near where skyrim is, is just suicide. No one wants to just swing light and heavy attacks all day with 0 variety.

trymi

I don't disagree with the stated goal of the changes, which is lowering the overall gap between high APM players and low APM players. Somehow this goal led to the conclusion that the best course of action is to force players to heavy attacks for damage and do multiple light attacks to restore resources.

Now just looking at a logical perspective on this, if the actions per minute is largely made up of light attacks + skill casts, and light attacks make up the vast majority of the gap. I could see why you “might” reduce the damage from light attacks. It is also obvious that the other side of the equation is skill casts. You could just increase the overall damage of using skills. This leaves a gap in skill and still rewards mastery while increasing the damage floor. In a bit of irony, this exact issue was probably fixed 3-4 patches ago. The dev team does remember that patch where all the damage over time abilities were super strong.

If the low APM players aren’t using skills regularly, nothing you change will ever close the gap between floor and ceiling. If anything, these changes would likely increase that gap. I know from experience that most low APM players are not using skills often, they are mostly light attack spamming with bows and sometimes hitting snipe.
My other major issue is heavy attacks are by far the worst performing mechanic in the game, so it boggles the mind that anyone would want to make a change that requires increase usage of them. Therefore, I know the combat team doesn’t played this game. The only staff that reliably hits the target is lightening. The bow is all over the place, and melee weapons while somewhat reliable are also going to leave you standing in red 95% of the time.

Overall, I view these changes as incredibly short sighted and at best half-baked. There are some fundamental rules that should be apparent to the dev team, but clearly are not.
1. Nerfs are always worse than buffs
2. Small adjustments are better than big changes
3. Players are interested in content, not random changes
4. Changing core combat doesn’t make the game new and fresh
5. Stability and performance are very important
6. Fundamental changes to the combat system should be very rare
7. Big changes lead to unintended consequences and further dilute the stability of the game
8. Always avoid destroying the effort players have put into the game

Nothing kills the joy of playing a game for years like having dev team decide they don't like that armor set, skill, or class, so they nerf it to high heaven.

RusevCrush

It feels like our countless hours of research, practice, calculations, etc have been a huge waste time. It's like the Mario Kart catch up mechanic where they let the poor players catch up so they keep playing. I would not stick this kind of time into that type of game.
We're proud of what we've earned and to have it marginalized is sickening. What are the normal versions of all content for if not for low APM and new players? Are they all entitled to the best achievements in the game? Progression keeps us playing for years. I have no interest in playing if my efforts aren't rewarded. This is classic participation trophy way of thought.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for bashing, profanity and derailment, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive while providing feedback to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Jarrods32

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for bashing, profanity and derailment, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive while providing feedback to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Are there plans for the dev team to respond to concerns and testing people are posting ,give feed back or will it be business as usual and we will find out if and when propsed changes go live?

TheFM

Jarrods32 wrote: »

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for bashing, profanity and derailment, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive while providing feedback to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Are there plans for the dev team to respond to concerns and testing people are posting ,give feed back or will it be business as usual and we will find out if and when propsed changes go live?

Thats what I was wondering. The responses in both threads have been overwhelmingly against the changes, yet here we are 24 hours later and there has been exactly 0 communication.

LuxiasCaelum13

TheFM wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

I agree with making LA's restore resources and HA's deal more damage. In fact, it's more accurate to how Elder Scrolls games work.

Honestly, how exactly? As far as I can remember, resource return was never an effect of any kind of attack in any ES game.

Because in Elder scrolls games, Light attacks are the least resource-consuming attacks, while heavy attacks deplete your stamina bar in exchange for greater damage. Having light attacks restore resources and heavy attacks deal more damage is more close to this idea than having light attacks only for damage and heavy attacks for restoring resources

Except this isnt skyrim and it should never EVER play like it. -EVER-.

It's not skyrim and shouldn't be a copy of it, but is an Elder Scrolls game, and it should have at least some resemblances with the original products in the gameplay aspect of the game, not only via places, characters and references. That is the main reason for why FFXIV feels more like wow than a proper Final Fantasy, because besides names and jobs it doesn't have any resemblance with the actual FF franchise.

Also, who said SKyrim? That gameplay applies to Oblivion too, so...

No. They made it clear when the game was released this is not skyrim, it will never be skyrim, and if you are looking for an TES game like skyrim, this is not your game. It is an mmo with fast paced combat, and dumbing it anywhere near where skyrim is, is just suicide. No one wants to just swing light and heavy attacks all day with 0 variety.

Did you actually read anything i said? Who is saying the game has to be a Skyrim replica? Stop with this straw man because no one here is asking for ESO to be like Skyrim, the only thing i pointed is the fact that the game, in order to be called "Elder Scrolls" should have at least ONE resemblance with any of the gameplay mechanics of the franchise, in this case, being that resemblance the core combat mechanic of ES games.

By your logic i assume that you would be absolutely fine if this game was a "point and click" MMO, as long as it's called "Elder Scrolls" who cares if the product actually lives up to its name, right?

Olauron

Just a thought: Iceheart changes got much more negative feedback with a) much more comments and different players responding and b) significantly much clearer distribution of those who for and against (almost all were against, that is not the case here).

YandereGirlfriend

RusevCrush wrote: »

It feels like our countless hours of research, practice, calculations, etc have been a huge waste time. It's like the Mario Kart catch up mechanic where they let the poor players catch up so they keep playing.

While I support the notion that casual players ought to be able to complete the game's basic content, having a performance distinction between enthusiast players and casual players is normal and healthy for a game.

RusevCrush wrote: »

What are the normal versions of all content for if not for low APM and new players? Are they all entitled to the best achievements in the game?

This truly gets to the heart of the matter.

'Normal' versions of dungeons and trials are for casual play. Obey the mechanics, do modestly well at your chosen role, and you should be able to complete it.

'Veteran' and, especially, 'Hard Mode' belie their expectations in their very names.

IMO, players have no entitlement to be able to earn the game's most prestigious titles and achievements without putting in the work necessary to actually achieve them. Doing that undermines the integrity of the achievement and disrupts any incentive to practice and improve at the game.

People generally respond to challenges in one of two ways: You either take it as a cue to improve yourself or you complain about the nature of the challenge itself and then demand that it be changed to suit you.

I am not saying that these changes go that far, but I see this attitude displayed when people say "Good, I always hated Light Attacking and now I'll finally be able to complete vMoL."

rambo4uub17_ESO

I don't ever go on the test server so I can't test these changes but I read about others experiences.

I am an experienced player but not all that talented but with some hard work I have enough DPS to complete all the DLC dungeons, if not in HM.

I like doing DLCs in vet mode.

If I am forced to heavy attack in DLCs I anticipate more deaths because you can't block in a heavy attack. LA weaving means you can easily block. Most DLCs don't let you sit there and parse, you are running around, blocking roll dodging and doing little mini rotations before you have to move again. Especially in PUG groups sustain isn't always optimal so I have to heavy attack now and then depending on dugeon and buffs. I just see more heavy attacks in fast paced dungeons leading to more deaths and one shots.. DPS will go down so more mechanics will be need to be dealth with thereby making dungeons less fun to complete.

Imagine doing that 3rd boss in VSCP with a bunch of light attacks.

I just imagine the harder content becoming even more difficult and for players with low DPS not really having pathways to completion.

azjuwelz

I'm on console, and I don't have access to a computer where I could join a pts server.

Also being a console player, there is nothing in the base game like Combat Metrics or buff alerts to assist me in improving dps (or healing or tanking, for that matter). I've had to be a "button masher" in some games in order to survive, especially those with multi-button combos, like YB +X, etc. I like that ESO doesn't follow this pattern and instead makes it more about timing different skills, attacks, and so on. You don't simply "mash" buttons in this game. I like that it takes some skill.

After 18 months of playing ESO, I've FINALLY gotten to where I can do 30k on a 6mil, 40+k on a trial dummy, with 690CP and climbing. I'm finally competent in vet content, though I have to pay attention to mechanics. This despite all the nerfs over the last year to my Bosmer Nightblade--and my first 6 months of play don't really count because I was clueless about everything. I even have started to become competent in pvp.

This proposed change to the core fundamental combat system feels like the biggest slap in the face ever.

1. So you want to steal Leeching Strikes basically to give to everyone, carving out yet ANOTHER class identity? I mean it's not like there's a whole TREE of skills entitled "Siphoning," right?! On top of that, light attacks are about all my NB has left. And I can't heavy attack because I'm squishy and I'll die. Moving and attacking fast and then dodging away is the NB's greatest strength.

2. Name one other successful game out there that improved by completely flip flopping their combat system. I'm waiting. This is something I would expect in an alpha test, not even a beta, and definitely not a published game with a large player base. I started ESO plus 6 months ago. This change I would drop that and leave the game, rather than what I contemplated before this proposal, which was to actually spend money on crown crates.

3. As a healer, I do not want to think about light attack rotations to sustain, at least not yet. I also just started a new toon to learn tanking, and agree this will really mess with newer tanks. On console it's hard enough as it is to see when to apply taunt, etc.
4. As a pvper, though my stamdk would surely benefit from these changes, I also really don't want to see a tanky heavy attack meta worse than what we already have. Also of course the current issue of skills not firing when pressed anyways. Infinite sustain? Just no.
5. Game balance would be destroyed, as would any idea of racial balance. Or build diversity. And would you have to go back and find/change all the tutorials that teach the current combat system? Think carefully about that.
6. SMALL changes are what is needed at this point, and a BIG focus on game performance. Please know that you'll never satisfy every single player. I wouldn't mind a slight nerf to light attacks if paired with a slight buff to skills and heavy attacks. I don't really want to see light attacks providing resources unless you're prepared to compensate nightblades in some way and give them back some identity.

So yes, as a mid-tier player, I absolutely feel penalized for even suggesting this. I agree that top tier won't be affected, but it will maim those just entering endgame like myself, and it will make the floor drop even more. I never, ever liked heavy attacks, even when brand new. I remember spamming 1 or 2 skills and then once my stamina ran out spamming light attacks. That's what did and what I see other new players doing.

Kindly note I have also never ranted before now on these forums. If this angers a normally calm person like me this much, imagine the more volatile players. (And I know quite a few of them on console).

Ratzkifal

I think these changes were intended for me/people like me.
No, I don't like them, but I think what Code suggested sounds promising.

What do I mean with "they were made for me"? Well, I am one of those medium skilled players. I know what to do, I know how to weave but if I try to increase my APM any further then my hands will just hurt more than they already do after parsing on the dummy. My current dps record is around 68k so very high for most people and my LA/s are somewhere around 0.6 which is both "too low" to be considered "good enough" for the hardest trial content of the game. I don't struggle with doing mechanics, have good uptimes and have access to good gear thanks to me also being a healer, so the only issue I have is that my APM is too low even if everything else is the way it's supposed to be.

Seeing how I am an edge-case slightly below the threshold to being "good", ZOS' stated goals are achieved in part if I am able to reach 75k DPS on PTS by the time the changes are more fleshed out and ready.

That being said, now I kind of feel the duty to download PTS and get to testing...

xaraan

I can't imagine saying anything better than what Code said: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517845/how-the-la-ha-changes-fail-to-fulfill-zoss-stated-goals-and-what-could-be-done-instead/p1

That's how zos should approach the change 100%.

karekiz

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Seeing how I am an edge-case slightly below the threshold to being "good", ZOS' stated goals are achieved in part if I am able to reach 75k DPS on PTS by the time the changes are more fleshed out and ready.

You will not. You will see a slight DPS loss.

Ratzkifal

karekiz wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Seeing how I am an edge-case slightly below the threshold to being "good", ZOS' stated goals are achieved in part if I am able to reach 75k DPS on PTS by the time the changes are more fleshed out and ready.

You will not. You will see a slight DPS loss.

Maybe with the current version of their changes, yes. But I mean the idealized changes that achieve what ZOS is trying to do. Code's feedback (reply #222) nailed it. What ZOS is trying to do is narrow the effective skill gap.
That means that low APM players should see a rise in power.
Of course ZOS' current changes don't achieve that, but they have taken notice of Code's feedback so let's hope their next iteration will.
The gist of it is this: if we lower LA and HA by a moderate amount (for example 30%) and buff spammables in turn to leave high level players where they are currently at dps-wise, then everyone else will see a rise in power. Everyone with a bad LA/s rate will be buffed and that would include me and people like me.
It's not fair that I can't even get into most veteran raids just because I can't smash my buttons fast enough, but it is only fair that the fastest button smashers get on leaderboards and not me.

TheFM

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

LuxiasCaelum13 wrote: »

I agree with making LA's restore resources and HA's deal more damage. In fact, it's more accurate to how Elder Scrolls games work.

Honestly, how exactly? As far as I can remember, resource return was never an effect of any kind of attack in any ES game.

Because in Elder scrolls games, Light attacks are the least resource-consuming attacks, while heavy attacks deplete your stamina bar in exchange for greater damage. Having light attacks restore resources and heavy attacks deal more damage is more close to this idea than having light attacks only for damage and heavy attacks for restoring resources

Except this isnt skyrim and it should never EVER play like it. -EVER-.

It's not skyrim and shouldn't be a copy of it, but is an Elder Scrolls game, and it should have at least some resemblances with the original products in the gameplay aspect of the game, not only via places, characters and references. That is the main reason for why FFXIV feels more like wow than a proper Final Fantasy, because besides names and jobs it doesn't have any resemblance with the actual FF franchise.

Also, who said SKyrim? That gameplay applies to Oblivion too, so...

No. They made it clear when the game was released this is not skyrim, it will never be skyrim, and if you are looking for an TES game like skyrim, this is not your game. It is an mmo with fast paced combat, and dumbing it anywhere near where skyrim is, is just suicide. No one wants to just swing light and heavy attacks all day with 0 variety.

Did you actually read anything i said? Who is saying the game has to be a Skyrim replica? Stop with this straw man because no one here is asking for ESO to be like Skyrim, the only thing i pointed is the fact that the game, in order to be called "Elder Scrolls" should have at least ONE resemblance with any of the gameplay mechanics of the franchise, in this case, being that resemblance the core combat mechanic of ES games.

By your logic i assume that you would be absolutely fine if this game was a "point and click" MMO, as long as it's called "Elder Scrolls" who cares if the product actually lives up to its name, right?

That's a massive assumption on your part. I have been playing since beta, and people like you have been there from the get go saying " it's need to have more in common with skyrim.", And if that's your view, this is , nor was , nor will it ever be the game for you. And that's a good thing.

Hooded_1

Pre-PTS testing comments

Most of these changes are pretty terrible by the looks of it. We just finished going through a whole bunch of dramatic meta changes with the performance of skills, and I was actually glad to have a break from that with the performance patch of Harrowstorm. If you introduce all these changes, you’re dramatically shifting the meta again and simply pissing long-term players off by punishing them with low damage light attacks, AND pissing off the newer, low APM players because now they can’t sustain with heavy attacks. Instead of using a sledgehammer to make big, sweeping changes, I recommend you cherry pick a couple of these changes to use a scalpel instead. Because a scalpel is most certainly required here. Since the vast majority of these proposed changes are terrible, I’ll give you the short list of what are actually good changes.

All light attacks, regardless of type, scale off of your highest offensive stats. Good change. Now magicka DPS have more weapon options.

Nerfing LA damage and buffing HA damage is a good change in theory, but you’re doing it way too much. Slightly nerfing LA damage (maybe 10%) and slightly buffing HA damage (maybe 10%) is a better way to go at it.

Having martial weapons restore stamina and staves restore magicka is good. Makes sense.

All the changes to sets are whatever; I like the “buff” to Galenwe, but only if empower continues to buff LA’s (I understand that this is more subjective though, I can live without changing Galenwe)

Other comments:

The off-balance changes will widen the skill gap, not close it because instead of continually light-attacking, you now have to pay attention to yet another mechanic and know when to start medium weaving to optimize damage.

In terms of initially looking at it, it would seem unintuitive to say that heavy attacks are “rest” periods that are used to restore resources and light attacks are for more damage, but if you actually think about it, from a playing perspective, heavy attacking being used for “rest” makes sense because with heavy attacks you’re going with a lower APM. Once you regain resources with slow, plodding rotations, you can go back to high damage with fast-paced rotations, which includes light attacks. The way it currently is makes more sense to me than your changes.

Learning to to LA weave, barring physical disabilities, is actually quite easy to figure out. All you have to do is go into a dungeon (public dungeon, 4-man dungeon, pick what you want) for 2-3 hours and dedicate your time to figure out animation cancelling. Or sitting in front of a target dummy for 2 hours. Or doing whatever else. Sit in Deshaan and vigor-dodge roll cancel to your Hearts content for all I care.

I look forward to giving you more of the same feedback when I actually test this on the PTS.

SidraWillowsky

StamDK. This isn't even close to my main class, but it seemed like the class that would benefit from the HA changes the most, so I made one. I think I was correct-



This is Relequen, Sundeflame, Velidreth, and the vMA bow. Rotation: keep up hail, trap, armaments, claw, and breath, then heavy attack away. I tried a HA/skill/bash combo a few times too.

Not 21 mil, but this is a self-buffed 44k with no LA weaving. If the goal of the LA nerf-fest is to make better DPS more feasible for more players, I guess this is a.... thing. It works, it's straightforward, and while I'm all for closing the skill gap in some manner, please god don't do it this way.

I actually think it's pretty OK for stam DDs. My stamblade, stamden, and now this stamDK are all doing OK and it seems like it's easier to get decent DPS with simpler rotations while also providing opportunities for even higher DPS with more involved rotations.

My magicka DDs are HURTING, however (magwarden, magblade, magplar). I can't find simpler/easier rotations that can pull more than about 23k on any of them, and when I try the same setup as I have on live, the DPS loss is massive. If this goes live, they will be destroyed. Heavy attacks with staves remain clunky as hell (whereas they feel pretty OK as part of my stam DDs' rotations), and we cannot bash weave.

Please reconsider what you're doing when it comes to a blanket application of this across all weapon types. Why does every single weapon type -that does different things with different strengths- need the same level of nerf? If you look at CMX parses it's immediately clear that magicka players rely more on light attack damage than stamina characters do. It should follow that nerfing LA damage for all weapons by the same amount will disproportionately affect magicka DDs. And this would be fine... if they were the leading cause of the skill gap. But they're not; I'm not going to argue whether the skill gap is wider among stam DDs or magDDs because 1. I haven't put any thought into that and don't care to; and 2. I think it's more important to note that it exists across all classes.

Basically this seems like it may decrease the skill gap between stam DDs in a manner that involves raising the floor to some extent, though the professional stam DD mains will have to weigh in on how the ceiling looks. But magicka DDs all just took a free-fall and are piled on the floor in a sad heap. The floor hasn't been raised, and the ceiling fell through.

x48rph

Just want to throw a big thank you to the dev team for releasing this early for testing and feedback by itself when there is still plenty of opportunity to tweak/fix/change with out the looming deadline for the expansion like normally happens. This is a very welcome change to how things normally go.

Praise in no way reflects approval or disapproval of changes, just wanted to thank the dev team for doing things better this time instead of blindsiding everyone during the PTS cycle for the expansion when so much else is also going on.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Please, please STOP with the changing of core mechanics. This will be my final straw with you if it goes through, and I know entire guilds that will be torn apart by it. STOP punishing vet players. FIX what you already have. Take a step back and remember what makes video games fun. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. I love this game more than any other, but am sickened by how you've treated the vet community. Enough is enough.

Tharonil

I really hate you guys from deep inside.

Everything was fine until a random dude thought "hey let's nerf some skills and change some sets!"

I was frustrated that my skills got nerfed after five years, but ok.
I was frustrated that my favorite sets got nerfed, but ok.

I was away for six months playing black desert and the only thing throwing me back was the forced pvp.

Now you nerf the light attack damage? What this fetish with nerfing things?

Did you ever try to buff something? Or leave everything as it is?

Who wanted this changes? Five people with boredom?

I like this game, but I don't like your great ideas of changing it.

Thevampirenight

Got to thinking about some of the replies here, maybe the changes are indeed them attempting to make the game feel more like the single player tes games. I mean they want to build on what made those games so successful in a way this is a theme park mmorpg.

So maybe these current changes are not because they are just wanting to change things. But are part of a much bigger vision and ambition to align combat with the Single Player games while mixing it with the fast paced combat that Eso players like. Thus mixing together both worlds so to speak. Some people here were talking about this and to me it made sense and there is that chance for this being an actual possibility.

I would not mind them doing these changes if it was for that reason. Because to have the game be more a Tes style game then an mmo/mmorpg would be neat if they do more to align with that and make it feel more like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. When it comes to the combat well not Morrowind's except more more weapon skill line possibilities. However mixing Oblivion and Skyrim combat with the unique combat that Eso Players enjoy would be nice. The nostalgia levels would rise for sure and it might attract some of those players back if they did this and have stopped playing because it was to much like an mmo.

MyPrist

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Got to thinking about some of the replies here, maybe the changes are indeed them attempting to make the game feel more like the single player tes games. I mean they want to build on what made those games so successful in a way this is a theme park mmorpg.

So maybe these current changes are not because they are just wanting to change things. But are part of a much bigger vision and ambition to align combat with the Single Player games while mixing it with the fast paced combat that Eso players like. Thus mixing together both worlds so to speak. Some people here were talking about this and to me it made sense and there is that chance for this being an actual possibility.

I would not mind them doing these changes if it was for that reason. Because to have the game be more a Tes style game then an mmo/mmorpg would be neat if they do more to align with that and make it feel more like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. When it comes to the combat well not Morrowind's except more more weapon skill line possibilities. However mixing Oblivion and Skyrim combat with the unique combat that Eso Players enjoy would be nice. The nostalgia levels would rise for sure and it might attract some of those players back if they did this and have stopped playing because it was to much like an mmo.

I think it already will be solo player game, or may be 2 players will be online some times.

Do not put too much hope in them.

For example some skills did not work correct 9-10 month !!! I spam about it too each ZOS pm i found every day !!! After 1 say - ok we will fix i stop BUT:

Even after they fix it (it was broken 3 times !!! In this 9 month and had different bugs !!!), they fix it but made WRONG patch notes info.

Can you just imagin it ?

It is magick, even do not know what you are fixing, when do patch notes !!!

Alucardo

Come on ZOS, we got another week before April Fools. You could have dropped this obvious joke of a bombshell on us then.

coradaelu

I hope this never go to live server, "Your movement speed is no longer reduced while channeling" keep this and buff heavy attack, that's all, but dam they even change Sets, CP and everything.. I doubt they will reverse this.

JumpmanLane

coradaelu wrote: »

I hope this never go to live server, "Your movement speed is no longer reduced while channeling" keep this and buff heavy attack, that's all, but dam they even change Sets, CP and everything.. I doubt they will reverse this.

They CODED it. It’s going live. They’ve put a lot of time, effort, THOUGHT into this and it’s going live. Feedback or not.

I was thinking of quitting but I got THREE mothballed BROKEN AF builds I can run off THESE proposed mechanics. And they already golded out lol.