Prevent the reign of terror we're about to experience

OtarTheMad

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it. I mean during the Elsweyr PTS it wasn't even the skill that was OP, it was a bug that made pets crit damage too high but no one listened to us telling them that and got it nerfed/broken.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

BohnT2

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

xylena

Defiles are purely an L2P issue, time to stop crutching on face tank heal spam.

OtarTheMad

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Mayrael

Just make major defile from blastbones apply to necro to for the duration and with buffs from CPs

BohnT2

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

xylena

BohnT2 wrote: »

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

An excellent summary of nerfed and underpowered Defile abilities that need buffs, well done.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

Twist ending: the purge bot is you. Well, if you're a Necro, Templar, or maybe Warden. If you see uneven access to Major Defile as a problem, clearly you see uneven access to purge abilities as a problem too, yes? Convert Efficient Purge from monkey spam for organized groups into a personal purge cheap and effective enough for any spec, but less powerful than any of the class purges. Now I can have my buffed Defiles, and you have better counterplay, good compromise yes?

OtarTheMad

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

LoL, I said "if you run in a group..." and you come back with duels? Like huh? And yes I play the game, I was just saying it is common. Major Defile is needed in some aspects to counter healers in PvP, but even with that debuff healers are godly in PvP because they can just purge the debuff off the group. If you're solo, well if you're stamina and not a warden, templar or necro then you won't have a purge but you could also use a potion that gives you major vitality which would counter the defile.

Also, for duels, if you are speaking of like real hardcore duels in tournaments and stuff like that (I have no idea if you are) defile sets/debuff is banned I do believe. I am not in a dueling guild so I can't confirm but I watched a few tournaments and heard it mentioned by the people running it.

EDIT- Also yes Dark Flare is bashable, but what templar would spam that in melee range? I'd javelin you away from me and then do it. That's like hard casting frags with a melee player near you... you're gonna die doing that.

TheBonesXXX

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

If b

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.

Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.

Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.

No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.

Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.

Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3

Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.

They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.

xylena wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.

Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.

So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.

Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.

You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."

And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.

Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.

What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?

Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.

You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.

I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.

BohnT2

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

LoL, I said "if you run in a group..." and you come back with duels? Like huh? And yes I play the game, I was just saying it is common. Major Defile is needed in some aspects to counter healers in PvP, but even with that debuff healers are godly in PvP because they can just purge the debuff off the group. If you're solo, well if you're stamina and not a warden, templar or necro then you won't have a purge but you could also use a potion that gives you major vitality which would counter the defile.

Also, for duels, if you are speaking of like real hardcore duels in tournaments and stuff like that (I have no idea if you are) defile sets/debuff is banned I do believe. I am not in a dueling guild so I can't confirm but I watched a few tournaments and heard it mentioned by the people running it.

EDIT- Also yes Dark Flare is bashable, but what templar would spam that in melee range? I'd javelin you away from me and then do it. That's like hard casting frags with a melee player near you... you're gonna die doing that.

Oh so major defile is banned in duel tournaments.
You might be onto something but i don't want to ruin the mystery solving part just yet.

Also please just stop making up any ways of niche counterplay they won't work and I hope i don't have to explain why they don't.
People will invest in more overall tankiness just to counter major defile which will make the meta all the more tanky for everyone who hasn't access to major defile because people will lose damage and have more survivability just to avoid losing a fight simply from matchups

BohnT2

xylena wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

An excellent summary of nerfed and underpowered Defile abilities that need buffs, well done.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

Twist ending: the purge bot is you. Well, if you're a Necro, Templar, or maybe Warden. If you see uneven access to Major Defile as a problem, clearly you see uneven access to purge abilities as a problem too, yes? Convert Efficient Purge from monkey spam for organized groups into a personal purge cheap and effective enough for any spec, but less powerful than any of the class purges. Now I can have my buffed Defiles, and you have better counterplay, good compromise yes?

No, because you still haven't understood a single thing, I'm actually worried about you at this point as the tenth explanation still doesn't seem to get to you.

Major defile will make people play more tanky builds as otherwise they'll lose fights before they even started due to matchup disadvantages.
This means for every single spec that doesn't have access to major defile the meta becomes more and more tanky while the specs with major defile won't feel much difference as people will directly build to not instantly lose to them.
Adding more defiles to the equation doesn't change a single thing because you just shift the meta to more tankiness with increased killing potential due to major defile.

But that's not what you want you want to keep killing potential the same while dropping tankiness and high major defile uptime has absolutely no place in an attempt like this.

OtarTheMad

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

LoL, I said "if you run in a group..." and you come back with duels? Like huh? And yes I play the game, I was just saying it is common. Major Defile is needed in some aspects to counter healers in PvP, but even with that debuff healers are godly in PvP because they can just purge the debuff off the group. If you're solo, well if you're stamina and not a warden, templar or necro then you won't have a purge but you could also use a potion that gives you major vitality which would counter the defile.

Also, for duels, if you are speaking of like real hardcore duels in tournaments and stuff like that (I have no idea if you are) defile sets/debuff is banned I do believe. I am not in a dueling guild so I can't confirm but I watched a few tournaments and heard it mentioned by the people running it.

EDIT- Also yes Dark Flare is bashable, but what templar would spam that in melee range? I'd javelin you away from me and then do it. That's like hard casting frags with a melee player near you... you're gonna die doing that.

Oh so major defile is banned in duel tournaments.
You might be onto something but i don't want to ruin the mystery solving part just yet.

Also please just stop making up any ways of niche counterplay they won't work and I hope i don't have to explain why they don't.
People will invest in more overall tankiness just to counter major defile which will make the meta all the more tanky for everyone who hasn't access to major defile because people will lose damage and have more survivability just to avoid losing a fight simply from matchups

Sure you got it. I'll stop informing people of counters so you can have your way. Yup, taking away major defile will solve all, it won't make the healers even stronger and make people harder to kill... nope... they'll melt.

BohnT2

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

LoL, I said "if you run in a group..." and you come back with duels? Like huh? And yes I play the game, I was just saying it is common. Major Defile is needed in some aspects to counter healers in PvP, but even with that debuff healers are godly in PvP because they can just purge the debuff off the group. If you're solo, well if you're stamina and not a warden, templar or necro then you won't have a purge but you could also use a potion that gives you major vitality which would counter the defile.

Also, for duels, if you are speaking of like real hardcore duels in tournaments and stuff like that (I have no idea if you are) defile sets/debuff is banned I do believe. I am not in a dueling guild so I can't confirm but I watched a few tournaments and heard it mentioned by the people running it.

EDIT- Also yes Dark Flare is bashable, but what templar would spam that in melee range? I'd javelin you away from me and then do it. That's like hard casting frags with a melee player near you... you're gonna die doing that.

Oh so major defile is banned in duel tournaments.
You might be onto something but i don't want to ruin the mystery solving part just yet.

Also please just stop making up any ways of niche counterplay they won't work and I hope i don't have to explain why they don't.
People will invest in more overall tankiness just to counter major defile which will make the meta all the more tanky for everyone who hasn't access to major defile because people will lose damage and have more survivability just to avoid losing a fight simply from matchups

Sure you got it. I'll stop informing people of counters so you can have your way. Yup, taking away major defile will solve all, it won't make the healers even stronger and make people harder to kill... nope... they'll melt.

If you don't mind reading, I've written a lengthy post about how to appropriately tackle the current meta and why it is the way it is right now.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510454/harrowstorm-and-its-offence-problems#latest

TheBonesXXX

BohnT2 wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

An excellent summary of nerfed and underpowered Defile abilities that need buffs, well done.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

Twist ending: the purge bot is you. Well, if you're a Necro, Templar, or maybe Warden. If you see uneven access to Major Defile as a problem, clearly you see uneven access to purge abilities as a problem too, yes? Convert Efficient Purge from monkey spam for organized groups into a personal purge cheap and effective enough for any spec, but less powerful than any of the class purges. Now I can have my buffed Defiles, and you have better counterplay, good compromise yes?

No, because you still haven't understood a single thing, I'm actually worried about you at this point as the tenth explanation still doesn't seem to get to you.

Major defile will make people play more tanky builds as otherwise they'll lose fights before they even started due to matchup disadvantages.
This means for every single spec that doesn't have access to major defile the meta becomes more and more tanky while the specs with major defile won't feel much difference as people will directly build to not instantly lose to them.
Adding more defiles to the equation doesn't change a single thing because you just shift the meta to more tankiness with increased killing potential due to major defile.

But that's not what you want you want to keep killing potential the same while dropping tankiness and high major defile uptime has absolutely no place in an attempt like this.

The counter to the tankiness is pressure and burning them down and attacking resources.

xylena

BohnT2 wrote: »

No, because you still haven't understood a single thing, I'm actually worried about you at this point as the tenth explanation still doesn't seem to get to you.

I understand what you think the effects of Defiles are and maintain that those effects are good for the game. If you think Stamcro is overperforming in general, start another thread and make it about that.

OtarTheMad

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

LoL, I said "if you run in a group..." and you come back with duels? Like huh? And yes I play the game, I was just saying it is common. Major Defile is needed in some aspects to counter healers in PvP, but even with that debuff healers are godly in PvP because they can just purge the debuff off the group. If you're solo, well if you're stamina and not a warden, templar or necro then you won't have a purge but you could also use a potion that gives you major vitality which would counter the defile.

Also, for duels, if you are speaking of like real hardcore duels in tournaments and stuff like that (I have no idea if you are) defile sets/debuff is banned I do believe. I am not in a dueling guild so I can't confirm but I watched a few tournaments and heard it mentioned by the people running it.

EDIT- Also yes Dark Flare is bashable, but what templar would spam that in melee range? I'd javelin you away from me and then do it. That's like hard casting frags with a melee player near you... you're gonna die doing that.

Oh so major defile is banned in duel tournaments.
You might be onto something but i don't want to ruin the mystery solving part just yet.

Also please just stop making up any ways of niche counterplay they won't work and I hope i don't have to explain why they don't.
People will invest in more overall tankiness just to counter major defile which will make the meta all the more tanky for everyone who hasn't access to major defile because people will lose damage and have more survivability just to avoid losing a fight simply from matchups

Sure you got it. I'll stop informing people of counters so you can have your way. Yup, taking away major defile will solve all, it won't make the healers even stronger and make people harder to kill... nope... they'll melt.

If you don't mind reading, I've written a lengthy post about how to appropriately tackle the current meta and why it is the way it is right now.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510454/harrowstorm-and-its-offence-problems#latest

Nice post, but you also have to keep in mind that we are in the middle of a combat overhaul that, I believe, started with Update 23. They took this update off in order to focus on fixes and improvements, which a lot of us asked for. I am thinking that the chapter will either finish this combat overhaul they have or come closer. We got some class changes, if you remember, but Templar and NB were held off for a future update so I am guessing they'll be in the chapter. It's hard right now because the meta is directly because of this overhaul and the fact that it's not done. It's like we are trying to drive in a construct zone with cones blocking half the street and the road being torn up. It'll be whole again but until then it's a bumpy ride.

OrderoftheDarkness

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

You're talking about selfish Defile types right now and try to compare them with Necro access, which can be used by others for their own purposes. I guessed that when creating a topic you are more concerned with the dueling side of the question.

pieratsos

xylena wrote: »

Defiles are purely an L2P issue, time to stop crutching on face tank heal spam.

Get it through ur head. Face tank heal spam is a problem that you address at its root. Face tank heal spam doesn't exist because of lack of defiles. It exists because the mechanics make it easy to achieve extreme tankiness with or without defiles.

Defile doesn't counter face tank heal spam. It counters healing in general. To make it more clear for you to understand, people with normal healing are getting screwed while face tank heal spam is still there because guess what. They are freaking tanks. So guess what Bob is going to do when he can't heal anymore on his normal build. Yep, that's right. Slap on heavy armor, stack his hp and healing through the sky, become a tank and u are back to square one. Gongrats mate, u have successfully created a meta where you are either playing a freaking tank, or a literal glass cannon that hopes to kill some people before it explodes. Gz u fixed nothing and u created more issues.

Mayrael

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

LoL, I said "if you run in a group..." and you come back with duels? Like huh? And yes I play the game, I was just saying it is common. Major Defile is needed in some aspects to counter healers in PvP, but even with that debuff healers are godly in PvP because they can just purge the debuff off the group. If you're solo, well if you're stamina and not a warden, templar or necro then you won't have a purge but you could also use a potion that gives you major vitality which would counter the defile.

Also, for duels, if you are speaking of like real hardcore duels in tournaments and stuff like that (I have no idea if you are) defile sets/debuff is banned I do believe. I am not in a dueling guild so I can't confirm but I watched a few tournaments and heard it mentioned by the people running it.

EDIT- Also yes Dark Flare is bashable, but what templar would spam that in melee range? I'd javelin you away from me and then do it. That's like hard casting frags with a melee player near you... you're gonna die doing that.

Oh so major defile is banned in duel tournaments.
You might be onto something but i don't want to ruin the mystery solving part just yet.

Also please just stop making up any ways of niche counterplay they won't work and I hope i don't have to explain why they don't.
People will invest in more overall tankiness just to counter major defile which will make the meta all the more tanky for everyone who hasn't access to major defile because people will lose damage and have more survivability just to avoid losing a fight simply from matchups

Sure you got it. I'll stop informing people of counters so you can have your way. Yup, taking away major defile will solve all, it won't make the healers even stronger and make people harder to kill... nope... they'll melt.

If you don't mind reading, I've written a lengthy post about how to appropriately tackle the current meta and why it is the way it is right now.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510454/harrowstorm-and-its-offence-problems#latest

Nice post, but you also have to keep in mind that we are in the middle of a combat overhaul that, I believe, started with Update 23. They took this update off in order to focus on fixes and improvements, which a lot of us asked for. I am thinking that the chapter will either finish this combat overhaul they have or come closer. We got some class changes, if you remember, but Templar and NB were held off for a future update so I am guessing they'll be in the chapter. It's hard right now because the meta is directly because of this overhaul and the fact that it's not done. It's like we are trying to drive in a construct zone with cones blocking half the street and the road being torn up. It'll be whole again but until then it's a bumpy ride.

You know it can't be to bumpy and many of us can not make it to next chapter. Some things doesnt require large chapters overhauls to get fixed, because they are critical. Blastbones with such mechanics like now (cheap, unavoidable AoE nuke with defile on top of it) is one of those things.

My proposition how to fix this is simple. Defile works only around blastbones corpses as a ground aoe effect, so you can walk out of it.

SenpaiNFT

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

If b

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.

Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.

Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.

No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.

Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.

Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3

Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.

They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.

xylena wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.

Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.

So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.

Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.

You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."

And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.

Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.

What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?

Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.

You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.

I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.

Objectively incorrect. When has anyone, when saying they are low on resources, meant anything but magicka or stamina? Never. In my time of playing since launch I have never once heard anyone refer to health as a resource. Resources are magicka and stamina; the term has been romanticized by the player base to mean as such. Wherever you got the notion that resources included health, you are vastly misinformed, or are deliberately reaching, and have once again DERAILED THE THREAD ON NONSENSE.

Resources = Stamina and Magicka
Defile = Reduce Healing and Health Recovery

The two are not related. A defile build is NOT a resource attacking build.

@ZOS_AntonioP Can we get some moderation to clean up the derailing comments?

OrderoftheDarkness

Mayrael wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.

This by 12 million percent. Not enough people test on the PTS server, and certainly not a ton of top tier PvP players. Blastbones has counters, you can dodge it, block it, stun it, hell even had an NPC negate it etc. How about we let it hit live and let some real PvPers have a shot at it.

As for defile. A lot of people have access to defile

This shows that you certainly haven't tested anything on pts.
There is no option for most specs to CC the bombers and neither blocking or dodging saves you from the defile.
And even specs which can stun them just lose an substantial amount of gcds to avoid the major defile.
I'm not even gonna touch on how wrong you are which specs have access to the same potential uptime of major defile.

I get the defile thing but Stamcro isn't the only class with major defile. WW's have it, templars have it, NBs have it, Wardens have it, DK has it, bow has it, 1h has it. It's a pretty common debuff.

EDIT- Plus if you run in a group, which most of cyro does, your healer is going to have a purge which means bye bye debuff on you.

Do you even play the game?
Reverb lost major defile, bow lost it
And the uptime and counterplay of every other source isn't even comparable to bombers.

Dk only has it on a ult that you can simply walk out or otherwise the magdk has to waste consecutive gcds
Wardens major defile is also attached to an AoE that provides nothing for the warden if he has to cast it again because people will simply walk out
WW isn't even something to discuss at this point
NB only has it on 1 ult morph and it has absolutely no chance of guaranteeing a hit due to casttimes.
Dark Flare is bashable and by no means comparable to blastbones

Also i really want to see the purge bot in a duel that'll prevent you from getting major defile on you

LoL, I said "if you run in a group..." and you come back with duels? Like huh? And yes I play the game, I was just saying it is common. Major Defile is needed in some aspects to counter healers in PvP, but even with that debuff healers are godly in PvP because they can just purge the debuff off the group. If you're solo, well if you're stamina and not a warden, templar or necro then you won't have a purge but you could also use a potion that gives you major vitality which would counter the defile.

Also, for duels, if you are speaking of like real hardcore duels in tournaments and stuff like that (I have no idea if you are) defile sets/debuff is banned I do believe. I am not in a dueling guild so I can't confirm but I watched a few tournaments and heard it mentioned by the people running it.

EDIT- Also yes Dark Flare is bashable, but what templar would spam that in melee range? I'd javelin you away from me and then do it. That's like hard casting frags with a melee player near you... you're gonna die doing that.

Oh so major defile is banned in duel tournaments.
You might be onto something but i don't want to ruin the mystery solving part just yet.

Also please just stop making up any ways of niche counterplay they won't work and I hope i don't have to explain why they don't.
People will invest in more overall tankiness just to counter major defile which will make the meta all the more tanky for everyone who hasn't access to major defile because people will lose damage and have more survivability just to avoid losing a fight simply from matchups

Sure you got it. I'll stop informing people of counters so you can have your way. Yup, taking away major defile will solve all, it won't make the healers even stronger and make people harder to kill... nope... they'll melt.

If you don't mind reading, I've written a lengthy post about how to appropriately tackle the current meta and why it is the way it is right now.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510454/harrowstorm-and-its-offence-problems#latest

Nice post, but you also have to keep in mind that we are in the middle of a combat overhaul that, I believe, started with Update 23. They took this update off in order to focus on fixes and improvements, which a lot of us asked for. I am thinking that the chapter will either finish this combat overhaul they have or come closer. We got some class changes, if you remember, but Templar and NB were held off for a future update so I am guessing they'll be in the chapter. It's hard right now because the meta is directly because of this overhaul and the fact that it's not done. It's like we are trying to drive in a construct zone with cones blocking half the street and the road being torn up. It'll be whole again but until then it's a bumpy ride.

You know it can't be to bumpy and many of us can not make it to next chapter. Some things doesnt require large chapters overhauls to get fixed, because they are critical. Blastbones with such mechanics like now (cheap, unavoidable AoE nuke with defile on top of it) is one of those things.

My proposition how to fix this is simple. Defile works only around blastbones corpses as a ground aoe effect, so you can walk out of it.

In this case the best candidate for using Defile is Detonating Siphon. Then it could be called a counter for healing tether. Your idea is interesting.

xylena

pieratsos wrote: »

Defile doesn't counter face tank heal spam. It counters healing in general.

If I can effectively use other defensive tactics, such as rolling, sprinting, LoS, damage shields, purging, cloaking, Protection buffs, disrupting enemy attacks with CC, etc... then I don't need to rely on face tank heal spam to survive, I can afford less powerful healing, because I'm mitigating or avoiding damage in other ways. You're also ignoring how easy it is to access healing buffs that directly counter Defile. Mending and Vitality are everywhere. Sets like Malubeth still exist. L2P issue.

Moving the Major Defile to the damage tether is honestly not a bad compromise, provided the tethers can be made reliable in open world PvP and not just duels. The Defile itself still doesn't need compromising, but I'm sympathetic to the argument that an undodgeable single target ranged nuke is bad for the game.

katorga

Major defile is in the game NOW. No one cares

Sets that defile are the in the game NOW. No one uses them as meta.

BB which has aoe defile NOW, albeit working maybe 40% of the time, will not change things if it works 100% of the time. Besides it is pet, meaning not only can you counter it with traditional ability counters, you also get the character counters...CC, root, snare, movement, death.

Swap defile with major butality or other major status, doesn't matter to me.

Mayrael

katorga wrote: »

Major defile is in the game NOW. No one cares

Sets that defile are the in the game NOW. No one uses them as meta.

BB which has aoe defile NOW, albeit working maybe 40% of the time, will not change things if it works 100% of the time. Besides it is pet, meaning not only can you counter it with traditional ability counters, you also get the character counters...CC, root, snare, movement, death.

Swap defile with major butality or other major status, doesn't matter to me.

What you don't understand is to use those sets you need to sacrifice while 5pc set to have like 40% uptime. When you play necro, you sacrifice nothing to have 100% uptime almost at no cost.

Editor:
And yes it's a pet but each counter to it cost 3x more than this skill, in the end necro wins. Remove that stupid passive that allows necro to spam it, iincrrease coosts to 3k stamina and we can talk...

TheBonesXXX

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

If b

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.

Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.

Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.

No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.

Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.

Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3

Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.

They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.

xylena wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.

Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.

So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.

Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.

You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."

And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.

Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.

What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?

Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.

You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.

I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.

Objectively incorrect. When has anyone, when saying they are low on resources, meant anything but magicka or stamina? Never. In my time of playing since launch I have never once heard anyone refer to health as a resource. Resources are magicka and stamina; the term has been romanticized by the player base to mean as such. Wherever you got the notion that resources included health, you are vastly misinformed, or are deliberately reaching, and have once again DERAILED THE THREAD ON NONSENSE.

Resources = Stamina and Magicka
Defile = Reduce Healing and Health Recovery

The two are not related. A defile build is NOT a resource attacking build.

@ZOS_AntonioP Can we get some moderation to clean up the derailing comments?

Health is a resource, it's simple statistics. It doesn't matter what players who have zero mathematical background romanticize it to be, that's irrelevant.

You've been wrong, on every account. Defile is for pressure builds, pressure builds burn and attack all three resources.

Especially when you're trying to Nerf necromancer, which is one of two classes that directly uses health at cost.

You have no argument, you're out here deliberately trying to Nerf a class.
.

BohnT2

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

If b

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.

Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.

Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.

No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.

Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.

Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3

Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.

They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.

xylena wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.

Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.

So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.

Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.

You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."

And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.

Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.

What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?

Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.

You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.

I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.

Objectively incorrect. When has anyone, when saying they are low on resources, meant anything but magicka or stamina? Never. In my time of playing since launch I have never once heard anyone refer to health as a resource. Resources are magicka and stamina; the term has been romanticized by the player base to mean as such. Wherever you got the notion that resources included health, you are vastly misinformed, or are deliberately reaching, and have once again DERAILED THE THREAD ON NONSENSE.

Resources = Stamina and Magicka
Defile = Reduce Healing and Health Recovery

The two are not related. A defile build is NOT a resource attacking build.

@ZOS_AntonioP Can we get some moderation to clean up the derailing comments?

Health is a resource, it's simple statistics. It doesn't matter what players who have zero mathematical background romanticize it to be, that's irrelevant.

You've been wrong, on every account. Defile is for pressure builds, pressure builds burn and attack all three resources.

Especially when you're trying to Nerf necromancer, which is one of two classes that directly uses health at cost.

You have no argument, you're out here deliberately trying to Nerf a class.
.

Yes removing major defile from blastbones is a nerf however it's a much needed nerf for something that centralizing and meta defining on a spec that doesn't need it at all.

The arguments for the nerf have been pointed out multiple times so please review them if needed

OrderoftheDarkness

If you look at it from the other side, the OP should determine who the culprit is: easy access to Defile for Stamcro or easy access to Major Vulnerability for the entire class. Because all its arguments are based on the fact that within one class there should not be certain debuffs that TS refers to in its head and does not think that there are already other classes that like Stam can use Major Fracture when using pressure that Stamcro does not have.

SenpaiNFT

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

If b

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.

Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.

Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.

No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.

Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.

Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3

Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.

They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.

xylena wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.

Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.

So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.

Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.

You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."

And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.

Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.

What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?

Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.

You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.

I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.

Objectively incorrect. When has anyone, when saying they are low on resources, meant anything but magicka or stamina? Never. In my time of playing since launch I have never once heard anyone refer to health as a resource. Resources are magicka and stamina; the term has been romanticized by the player base to mean as such. Wherever you got the notion that resources included health, you are vastly misinformed, or are deliberately reaching, and have once again DERAILED THE THREAD ON NONSENSE.

Resources = Stamina and Magicka
Defile = Reduce Healing and Health Recovery

The two are not related. A defile build is NOT a resource attacking build.

@ZOS_AntonioP Can we get some moderation to clean up the derailing comments?

Health is a resource, it's simple statistics. It doesn't matter what players who have zero mathematical background romanticize it to be, that's irrelevant.

You've been wrong, on every account. Defile is for pressure builds, pressure builds burn and attack all three resources.

Especially when you're trying to Nerf necromancer, which is one of two classes that directly uses health at cost.

You have no argument, you're out here deliberately trying to Nerf a class.
.

Blatant Strawman. Nobody is trying to nerf a class, we are trying to prevent a terrible change from being implemented that will severely hurt the already abysmal state of the game.

Again, Health is not a resource, yet again you avert the truth in effort to derail the thread further.

Simple statistics? Have you ever taken a college level statistics course? Because I’ve taken 3, and in no case is “what people romanticize it to be” NOT taken into account. Here’s a database full of Statistical survey data with an abundance of romanticized variables; feel free to educate yourself on some of them as you attempt to derail the thread again.

https://gssdataexplorer.norc.org/variables/vfilter?utf8=✓&user_search_id=&state_id=&search_type=&keyword=&doslider=1&yrmin=1972&yrmax=2018&years=&subjects=&ssearch=&commit=SEARCH

I’m happy to teach you how to use the Statistics software to view the hard data, as well, as I have a strong feeling you don’t have the Statistical background you think you do when you insult people who have “no mathematical background”.

OrderoftheDarkness

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

If b

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.

Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.

Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.

No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.

Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.

Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3

Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.

They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.

xylena wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.

Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.

So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.

Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.

You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."

And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.

Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.

What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?

Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.

You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.

I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.

Objectively incorrect. When has anyone, when saying they are low on resources, meant anything but magicka or stamina? Never. In my time of playing since launch I have never once heard anyone refer to health as a resource. Resources are magicka and stamina; the term has been romanticized by the player base to mean as such. Wherever you got the notion that resources included health, you are vastly misinformed, or are deliberately reaching, and have once again DERAILED THE THREAD ON NONSENSE.

Resources = Stamina and Magicka
Defile = Reduce Healing and Health Recovery

The two are not related. A defile build is NOT a resource attacking build.

@ZOS_AntonioP Can we get some moderation to clean up the derailing comments?

Health is a resource, it's simple statistics. It doesn't matter what players who have zero mathematical background romanticize it to be, that's irrelevant.

You've been wrong, on every account. Defile is for pressure builds, pressure builds burn and attack all three resources.

Especially when you're trying to Nerf necromancer, which is one of two classes that directly uses health at cost.

You have no argument, you're out here deliberately trying to Nerf a class.
.

I’m happy to teach you how to use the Statistics software to view the hard data, as well, as I have a strong feeling you don’t have the Statistical background you think you do when you insult people who have “no mathematical background”.

I am always happy to meet a teacher on my way even when I read forum.

TheBonesXXX

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

If b

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.

Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.

Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.

No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.

Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.

Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3

Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.

They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.

xylena wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.

Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.

So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.

Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.

You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."

And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.

Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.

What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?

Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.

You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.

I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.

Objectively incorrect. When has anyone, when saying they are low on resources, meant anything but magicka or stamina? Never. In my time of playing since launch I have never once heard anyone refer to health as a resource. Resources are magicka and stamina; the term has been romanticized by the player base to mean as such. Wherever you got the notion that resources included health, you are vastly misinformed, or are deliberately reaching, and have once again DERAILED THE THREAD ON NONSENSE.

Resources = Stamina and Magicka
Defile = Reduce Healing and Health Recovery

The two are not related. A defile build is NOT a resource attacking build.

@ZOS_AntonioP Can we get some moderation to clean up the derailing comments?

Health is a resource, it's simple statistics. It doesn't matter what players who have zero mathematical background romanticize it to be, that's irrelevant.

You've been wrong, on every account. Defile is for pressure builds, pressure builds burn and attack all three resources.

Especially when you're trying to Nerf necromancer, which is one of two classes that directly uses health at cost.

You have no argument, you're out here deliberately trying to Nerf a class.
.

Yes removing major defile from blastbones is a nerf however it's a much needed nerf for something that centralizing and meta defining on a spec that doesn't need it at all.

The arguments for the nerf have been pointed out multiple times so please review them if needed

I read your arguments, I don't agree with them.

Defile is a Major component to a pressure playstyle, Blastbones itself is easy to counter and get away from.

I understand your concern that people will build tanky, pressure builds are the hardcounter to tanky builds.

I'm a pressure player who's playstyle gets gutted the most even though it's harder to play.