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Prevent the reign of terror we're about to experience
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Neloth✭✭✭✭
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
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I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
That instant burst has so loud sound and so slow travel time, you will dodge it every time.0 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
That instant burst has so loud sound and so slow travel time, you will dodge it every time.
Yay, it’s a shame that your class doesn’t have a cool gap closer(with build-in dmg buff) to benefit from ass will having no minimal travel time in melee, and an instant unblockable CC to make sure you can land it no matter how loud it is
Feel bad for you
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
That instant burst has so loud sound and so slow travel time, you will dodge it every time.
Yay, it’s a shame that your class doesn’t have a cool gap closer(with build-in dmg buff) to benefit from ass will having no minimal travel time in melee, and an instant unblockable CC to make sure you can land it no matter how loud it is
Feel bad for you
I didn't played NB in PVP for more then year. It is my impressions from fighting them. So yeah they fear you from stealth, then follows cast time incap. When incap landed you already break free and roll-dodge. Bow proc always misses. When incap/harvest were instant, and you were stunned there were enough time to receive both incap+bow proc and NBs were dangerous.0 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
That instant burst has so loud sound and so slow travel time, you will dodge it every time.
Yay, it’s a shame that your class doesn’t have a cool gap closer(with build-in dmg buff) to benefit from ass will having no minimal travel time in melee, and an instant unblockable CC to make sure you can land it no matter how loud it is
Feel bad for you
I didn't played NB in PVP for more then year. It is my impressions from fighting them. So yeah they fear you from stealth, then follows cast time incap. When incap landed you already break free and roll-dodge. Bow proc always misses. When incap/harvest were instant, and you were stunned there were enough time to receive both incap+bow proc and NBs were dangerous.
And here I’m fully agree with you, but you mentioned it yourself, the problem comes from cast time on incap/harvest, not from ass will being clunky (in fact, it’s a decent skill)
I’m 100% for removing all cast times, or at least on defensive skills like soul tether
However, you can still burst with magblade today, just:
1) use meteor -> fear -> ass will -> execute
Or
2) use incap -> fear -> ass will -> execute when your opponents starts his offensive combo (this way you minimize chances of making him dodge after incap and rolling out of fear range)
Btw, fear could use a a range buff, since it frequently misses against speedy opponents (just to demonstrate that I don’t have a crusade against NBs, I play magblade 50-60% of time)
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BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Would you mind taking that discussion to another post?
Maybe that one
As it has nothing to do with high major defile uptime being unhealthy for the game which is what most of this post is about (even if some people see it as a nerf crusade against their class)1 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭Would you mind taking that discussion to another post?
Maybe that one
As it has nothing to do with high major defile uptime being unhealthy for the game which is what most of this post is about (even if some people see it as a nerf crusade against their class)
All my posts here are aimed to demonstrate that instead of rolling back blastbones behavior to unusable state (like some stamblade mains propose here), devs should rework both magicka and stamina secondary effects, which is exactly the point of this thread
Idk how it is unrelatedEdited by Neloth on February 3, 2020 4:13PM2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
That instant burst has so loud sound and so slow travel time, you will dodge it every time.
Yay, it’s a shame that your class doesn’t have a cool gap closer(with build-in dmg buff) to benefit from ass will having no minimal travel time in melee, and an instant unblockable CC to make sure you can land it no matter how loud it is
Feel bad for you
I didn't played NB in PVP for more then year. It is my impressions from fighting them. So yeah they fear you from stealth, then follows cast time incap. When incap landed you already break free and roll-dodge. Bow proc always misses. When incap/harvest were instant, and you were stunned there were enough time to receive both incap+bow proc and NBs were dangerous.
And here I’m fully agree with you, but you mentioned it yourself, the problem comes from cast time on incap/harvest, not from ass will being clunky (in fact, it’s a decent skill)
I’m 100% for removing all cast times, or at least on defensive skills like soul tether
However, you can still burst with magblade today, just:
1) use meteor -> fear -> ass will -> execute
Or
2) use incap -> fear -> ass will -> execute when your opponents starts his offensive combo (this way you minimize chances of making him dodge after incap and rolling out of fear range)
Btw, fear could use a a range buff, since it frequently misses against speedy opponents (just to demonstrate that I don’t have a crusade against NBs, I play magblade 50-60% of time)
Meteor main problem is that it is hard-countered by mist. In case of sorc he can time meteor+curse+wrath and streak stun just after meteor cast and then hope for double cc-glitch.. magblade doesn't have such tools.
Second combo again can be dodged due to distinctive sound and cast time. Overall, I think magNB has pretty good offense and pressure and it hard to fight them when you are on some high dps non-tanky build. But when you are on reasonably tanky build (typical 6k WD/30k resistances), both NB simply can do nothing. Maybe some long attrition strategy with stamina drain because opponent if forced to break free on cooldown. Anyway, cast time on incap/harvest should be removed before any other changes are made to the class - I think everybody agrees with it.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »If bMartiniDaniels wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3
Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.
They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.
Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.
So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.
Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.
You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."
And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.
Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.
What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?
Health, Stamina, and Magicka are resources. Defile reduces healing received and recovery.
You're factually incorrect about how Defile works and about accusations regarding derailment.
I however am correct in my observation that you and others are deliberately trying to Nerf a function of a skill.
Objectively incorrect. When has anyone, when saying they are low on resources, meant anything but magicka or stamina? Never. In my time of playing since launch I have never once heard anyone refer to health as a resource. Resources are magicka and stamina; the term has been romanticized by the player base to mean as such. Wherever you got the notion that resources included health, you are vastly misinformed, or are deliberately reaching, and have once again DERAILED THE THREAD ON NONSENSE.
Resources = Stamina and Magicka
Defile = Reduce Healing and Health Recovery
The two are not related. A defile build is NOT a resource attacking build.
@ZOS_AntonioP Can we get some moderation to clean up the derailing comments?
Health is a resource, it's simple statistics. It doesn't matter what players who have zero mathematical background romanticize it to be, that's irrelevant.
You've been wrong, on every account. Defile is for pressure builds, pressure builds burn and attack all three resources.
Especially when you're trying to Nerf necromancer, which is one of two classes that directly uses health at cost.
You have no argument, you're out here deliberately trying to Nerf a class.
.
Yes removing major defile from blastbones is a nerf however it's a much needed nerf for something that centralizing and meta defining on a spec that doesn't need it at all.
The arguments for the nerf have been pointed out multiple times so please review them if needed
I read your arguments, I don't agree with them.
Defile is a Major component to a pressure playstyle, Blastbones itself is easy to counter and get away from.
I understand your concern that people will build tanky, pressure builds are the hardcounter to tanky builds.
I'm a pressure player who's playstyle gets gutted the most even though it's harder to play.
Dude you don't know what are you talking about, you have never logged on the PTS at least. New blastbones easy to avoid? Yeah almost as easy as sorcs curse... This is major debuff, cheap, aoe, almost unavoidable, projectile range and sticks to player, can be spammed, has very high damage, is delayed so can be used to build burst. Show me other other skill that have all of this, I'll wait.
It has counters, quit complaining.1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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The fixed Blastbones. Assassin's Will is not stacked burst and has a [Snip] proc condition. It makes all the difference.
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
[Edit to remove flame]Edited by [Deleted User] on February 3, 2020 7:15PM0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtarTheMad wrote: »The major issue I have is despite all of the testing, and I have tested this, it's hard to duplicate live conditions. I mean how much of an impact will BB really have? Will ball groups spam it? Won't healers in groups just purge the defile debuff?
Each time I jumped in PTS no one was in it so I couldn't really do a ton of real test with Blastbones but everything you can do to it now on live should still work, just needs to be faster. I mean I had NPC's stun and CC my Blastbones so it's a thing. Negate works too, Sorcs should still be able to use Streak to streak thru it taking no damage etc.
BB feels strong with or without defile. Wouldn't mind it losing defile I guess but it'd need a new debuff or effect obviously. I wouldn't touch the speed or jumping distance because as ZOS has proven... changing this breaks the ability. I think it should go live and then be brainstormed how or if it needs adjusting because that's when you'll get a real test.
It also hurts testing that only a non-CP campaign (I haven't tested lately cause of personal issues so if this changed my bad) is available so you have to ask, how will CP change Blastbones? I know you can duel but that feels different to me than Cyrodiil.
This is the only post worth anything, it can be CCd. That itself is a hard stun, name another skill that you can directly halt from doing anything? None.
Also, ty for being a thinker, pts doesn't reflect live conditions. Kudos to you.
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fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Fear into Incap / Soul Harvest no longer guarantees a hit, due to the ulti cast delay. People are able to break free and dodge roll the ult. Since I don't use Assassin's Will myself, I am not sure whether that's the same with that skill, but it also has a delay and travel time. Some players, better than me, no longer slot Fear for that reason.MartiniDaniels wrote: »
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
That instant burst has so loud sound and so slow travel time, you will dodge it every time.
Yay, it’s a shame that your class doesn’t have a cool gap closer(with build-in dmg buff) to benefit from ass will having no minimal travel time in melee, and an instant unblockable CC to make sure you can land it no matter how loud it is
Feel bad for youEdited by fred4 on February 3, 2020 4:30PM0 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭
The fixed Blastbones. Assassin's Will is not stacked burst and has a [Snip] proc condition. It makes all the difference.
I'll gladly trade you Assassin's WIll for your Blastbones.Defile needs to be replaced by something else
Same goes for magicka version secondary effect, cause it’s useless now
And omg, all those delusional magsorcs and stamblades with “14k blastbones nuke every 4-5 seconds is op” - how about you get old blastbones AI on your curse/ass will, and play with it for a year?
20k+ instant burst with 10% mitigation for a 14-15k dmg pet with stupid AI, which can’t even reach the target half the time?
Kk, I don’t mind
- doesn’t want an old version of blastbones, because it is too weak compared to a burst tool of his class
- Necros should still have the weak version, because ... logic
and of course *** will can’t be timed with delayed ult like meteor, god forbids NBs using non-class stuff
P.S. *** proc conditions mean you can’t weave and activate it every 40 seconds? I agree, should automatically proc after incap on it’s own
[Edit to remove flame]
Edited by [Deleted User] on February 3, 2020 7:18PM0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »The major issue I have is despite all of the testing, and I have tested this, it's hard to duplicate live conditions. I mean how much of an impact will BB really have? Will ball groups spam it? Won't healers in groups just purge the defile debuff?
Each time I jumped in PTS no one was in it so I couldn't really do a ton of real test with Blastbones but everything you can do to it now on live should still work, just needs to be faster. I mean I had NPC's stun and CC my Blastbones so it's a thing. Negate works too, Sorcs should still be able to use Streak to streak thru it taking no damage etc.
BB feels strong with or without defile. Wouldn't mind it losing defile I guess but it'd need a new debuff or effect obviously. I wouldn't touch the speed or jumping distance because as ZOS has proven... changing this breaks the ability. I think it should go live and then be brainstormed how or if it needs adjusting because that's when you'll get a real test.
It also hurts testing that only a non-CP campaign (I haven't tested lately cause of personal issues so if this changed my bad) is available so you have to ask, how will CP change Blastbones? I know you can duel but that feels different to me than Cyrodiil.
This is the only post worth anything, it can be CCd. That itself is a hard stun, name another skill that you can directly halt from doing anything? None.
Also, ty for being a thinker, pts doesn't reflect live conditions. Kudos to you.
Oh yes i will enjoy trying to stun the bombers when Zos kindly removed almost every commonly instant CC from the game apart from fossilize and streak.
I can't wait to apply off balance on the skeleton and then try to stun it before it leaps, or try to get 3x icy wind hits on it, or how about getting the other necro to cast the bomber inside my necro totem, maybe I'll also go through the 3 seconds of vamp drain to stun them.
If I'm feeling adventurous I'll use dizzying twice.
Oh wait the bomber still explodes when it dies? Well guess that's it for the meele specs thank God Zos gave us so many viable ranged CCs right?
Just stop making excuses and face it that the major defile has to go and not trying to balance the whole necro toolkit around it having major defile because that's not gonna happen4 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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It was an off the cuff remark, because I don't think Blastbones and Assassin's Will are comparable and you certainly shouldn't read too much into Assassin's Will having a 20K+ tooltip in some builds. It has a high tooltip, because it's not stacked. If you're going to compare it, then Shalks and Curse are the better points of reference, that's all.- doesn’t want an old version of blastbones, because it is too weak compared to a burst tool of his class
- Necros should still have the weak version, because ... logic
Nowhere did I say necros should retain the weak version.
[Edit to remove flame]Edited by [Deleted User] on February 3, 2020 7:19PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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If I can effectively use other defensive tactics, such as rolling, sprinting, LoS, damage shields, purging, cloaking, Protection buffs, disrupting enemy attacks with CC, etc... then I don't need to rely on face tank heal spam to survive, I can afford less powerful healing, because I'm mitigating or avoiding damage in other ways. You're also ignoring how easy it is to access healing buffs that directly counter Defile. Mending and Vitality are everywhere. Sets like Malubeth still exist. L2P issue.Defile doesn't counter face tank heal spam. It counters healing in general.
Moving the Major Defile to the damage tether is honestly not a bad compromise, provided the tethers can be made reliable in open world PvP and not just duels. The Defile itself still doesn't need compromising, but I'm sympathetic to the argument that an undodgeable single target ranged nuke is bad for the game.
For starters please refrain from using the L2P issue as ur argument. It doesnt make you look smart or good but quite the opposite. Unless you want me to use the L2P issue as an argument too. After all, you are also complaining here about face tank heal spam.
So on topic now. Let me get this straight, you are actually saying that a normal build without extreme healing isnt going to have issues if you gut their healing because they can dodge, shield etc but a face tank heal spam build with extreme healing, ridiculously high hp, over the cap resistances, a ton of other mitigation buffs including all the mitigation tools the normal build would use, is somehow going to be countered by the defiles and going to have issues surviving. Right, makes perfect sense.
No, im not ignoring that healing buffs can counter defile and healing sets like malu exist. I am not ignoring them at all actually. It was included in my explanation about tanks. That is because all those crap are mostly used by wait for it...... Yep, thats right. By the freaking tanks. Thats why they have extreme healing in the first place buddy and thats why they are tanks, its common sense. So you basically literally said it urself. The tanks u are hoping to counter with defiles are actually well equipped to fight defiles.
And guess what else you also said urself. That to fight defiles people will look for healing buffs and defensive sets. So what are defiles going to do, wait for it.......Yep you are absolutely right again, they will make people to build for tankiness.
With one sentence you literally threw ur entire argument out the window and confirmed what people have been telling you all along. You are not solving the tank meta, you actually kinda endorsing it.
If healing buffs and defensive sets are very easily accessible and make people extremely tanky then u address that. How easily accessible those mechanics are. Defiles doesnt prevent you from using them, it essentially forces you to use them.1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
Are you implying that face tank heal spam is good for the game? Yes I've adapted to it with NMA 7k WD, stall and burst, dropping all DoTs from my bars, etc... and as a result find the game profoundly less enjoyable than when we had tools like Bleeds and Defiles to directly counter said face tank heal spam. You're right though, "L2P issue" is not a valid argument, it has been an expression of frustration with several things repeated yet again below...For starters please refrain from using the L2P issue as ur argument. It doesnt make you look smart or good but quite the opposite. Unless you want me to use the L2P issue as an argument too. After all, you are also complaining here about face tank heal spam.
I've acknowledged multiple times that Defiles alone will not put the slightest dent in the Tank Meta, but must accompany restoring class and weapon DoTs, some form of Bleed mechanic that punishes resist stacking, and unfortunately probably nerfs to certain forms of mitigation and healing after that. I've even used this to illustrate why the Defile on Blastbones is nothing to be afraid of, as there are no viable forms of pressure damage that can take advantage of it.a face tank heal spam build... is somehow going to be countered by the defiles and going to have issues surviving. Right, makes perfect sense.
I'm getting very tired of "buffing damage and reducing healing will make the meta more tanky" because that's actually part of the point, if you force people to build more tanky (make more sacrifices to sustain, utility, and damage) in order to obtain the same level of braindead face tanking they previously enjoyed, those tanky builds are now far less efficient than before, and thus easier to kill for the player who enjoys simply having more damage, or easier to ignore because they've invested so much into being tanky that they can't effectively heal allies or burst anyone down.So what are defiles going to do, wait for it.......Yep you are absolutely right again, they will make people to build for tankiness.Retired until we break the Tank Meta0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »The major issue I have is despite all of the testing, and I have tested this, it's hard to duplicate live conditions. I mean how much of an impact will BB really have? Will ball groups spam it? Won't healers in groups just purge the defile debuff?
Each time I jumped in PTS no one was in it so I couldn't really do a ton of real test with Blastbones but everything you can do to it now on live should still work, just needs to be faster. I mean I had NPC's stun and CC my Blastbones so it's a thing. Negate works too, Sorcs should still be able to use Streak to streak thru it taking no damage etc.
BB feels strong with or without defile. Wouldn't mind it losing defile I guess but it'd need a new debuff or effect obviously. I wouldn't touch the speed or jumping distance because as ZOS has proven... changing this breaks the ability. I think it should go live and then be brainstormed how or if it needs adjusting because that's when you'll get a real test.
It also hurts testing that only a non-CP campaign (I haven't tested lately cause of personal issues so if this changed my bad) is available so you have to ask, how will CP change Blastbones? I know you can duel but that feels different to me than Cyrodiil.
This is the only post worth anything, it can be CCd. That itself is a hard stun, name another skill that you can directly halt from doing anything? None.
Also, ty for being a thinker, pts doesn't reflect live conditions. Kudos to you.
Oh yes i will enjoy trying to stun the bombers when Zos kindly removed almost every commonly instant CC from the game apart from fossilize and streak.
I can't wait to apply off balance on the skeleton and then try to stun it before it leaps, or try to get 3x icy wind hits on it, or how about getting the other necro to cast the bomber inside my necro totem, maybe I'll also go through the 3 seconds of vamp drain to stun them.
If I'm feeling adventurous I'll use dizzying twice.
Oh wait the bomber still explodes when it dies? Well guess that's it for the meele specs thank God Zos gave us so many viable ranged CCs right?
Just stop making excuses and face it that the major defile has to go and not trying to balance the whole necro toolkit around it having major defile because that's not gonna happen
I don't disagree that CCs have been gutted.
I can rattle off every class CC that affects Blastbones and counter it, because I've been doing it.
It's your fault that you can't hardswitch a Target.
It's your choice playing full melee. Not anyone elses.
Tell me I'm making excuses when you're acting like it's an apocalypse.
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TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Are you implying that face tank heal spam is good for the game? Yes I've adapted to it with NMA 7k WD, stall and burst, dropping all DoTs from my bars, etc... and as a result find the game profoundly less enjoyable than when we had tools like Bleeds and Defiles to directly counter said face tank heal spam. You're right though, "L2P issue" is not a valid argument, it has been an expression of frustration with several things repeated yet again below...For starters please refrain from using the L2P issue as ur argument. It doesnt make you look smart or good but quite the opposite. Unless you want me to use the L2P issue as an argument too. After all, you are also complaining here about face tank heal spam.
I've acknowledged multiple times that Defiles alone will not put the slightest dent in the Tank Meta, but must accompany restoring class and weapon DoTs, some form of Bleed mechanic that punishes resist stacking, and unfortunately probably nerfs to certain forms of mitigation and healing after that. I've even used this to illustrate why the Defile on Blastbones is nothing to be afraid of, as there are no viable forms of pressure damage that can take advantage of it.a face tank heal spam build... is somehow going to be countered by the defiles and going to have issues surviving. Right, makes perfect sense.
I'm getting very tired of "buffing damage and reducing healing will make the meta more tanky" because that's actually part of the point, if you force people to build more tanky (make more sacrifices to sustain, utility, and damage) in order to obtain the same level of braindead face tanking they previously enjoyed, those tanky builds are now far less efficient than before, and thus easier to kill for the player who enjoys simply having more damage, or easier to ignore because they've invested so much into being tanky that they can't effectively heal allies or burst anyone down.So what are defiles going to do, wait for it.......Yep you are absolutely right again, they will make people to build for tankiness.
They're trying to maintain their meta, they don't actually care about the health of the game.
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p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Major Defile is bad because there are builds that won't lose to Major Defile? If you actually played this game competitively when Defiles were meta, you'd know that stacking HP is not a good way to counter pressure, but it can counter burst, which to me says that undodgeable single target ranged nukes are the problem and the reason people are building more HP, not Defiles. And if Defiles did actually hard shut down block healing out of execute range after eating a burst, good.It should be clear that bombers is referring to blastbones. Also i touched on it earlier that there's already tested builds with 40k health which have absolutely no relevant drawback and they'll won't lose to major defile.
Your use of "bomber" is not clear at all because "bomber" has specifically referred to NB stealth bombers in this game for quite a while, it just makes you sound like you don't understand this game and don't know what you're talking about, just like how we made fun of ZOS for making up a weird new term "kiss-curse" instead of just saying tradeoff or drawback like someone who regularly communicates with other humans would.
Over the last 3 years that I have been avidly PvPing, I've seen bombers take on several identities and iterations, from the Magblade stealth bombers, to Magplar bat bombs, to stam burst bombs, to Sorc Overload bombers. The latest iteration is the Necro Harmony bomber, and they're everywhere. A bomber is any spec designed to quickly kill groups using stacked AoE burst abilities. That leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I'm not sure how you've missed them, but arguing over semantics isn't going to solve the problem we're about to face if this mess goes live.Edited by p00tx on February 3, 2020 10:04PMPC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
They're referring to the skeleton itself as a "bomber." I don't know why they don't just call it a Blastbones. I also don't know how to solve the problem we're about to face, and the latest patch notes don't inspire much hope. Thank god the competitive integrity of vMA has been restored with that Iceheart nerf though, that's a change everyone's been wanting for years!Over the last 3 years that I have been avidly PvPing, I've seen bombers take on several identities and iterations, from the Magblade stealth bombers, to Magplar bat bombs, to stam burst bombs, to Sorc Overload bombers. The latest iteration is the Necro Harmony bomber, and they're everywhere. I'm not sure how you've missed them, but arguing over semantics isn't going to solve the problem we're about to face if this mess goes live.Retired until we break the Tank Meta0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
They're referring to the skeleton itself as a "bomber." I don't know why they don't just call it a Blastbones. I also don't know how to solve the problem we're about to face, and the latest patch notes don't inspire much hope. Thank god the competitive integrity of vMA has been restored with that Iceheart nerf though, that's a change everyone's been wanting for years!Over the last 3 years that I have been avidly PvPing, I've seen bombers take on several identities and iterations, from the Magblade stealth bombers, to Magplar bat bombs, to stam burst bombs, to Sorc Overload bombers. The latest iteration is the Necro Harmony bomber, and they're everywhere. I'm not sure how you've missed them, but arguing over semantics isn't going to solve the problem we're about to face if this mess goes live.
Bomber has been used by the devs back when they first revealed the skill lines and it really shouldn't have been this hard to figure out what bombers could mean in regards of this post.
See the pictures on the first page
Well i can tell you one solution for one of the biggest issues next patch:
Remove major defile from blastbones0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭
They're referring to the skeleton itself as a "bomber." I don't know why they don't just call it a Blastbones. I also don't know how to solve the problem we're about to face, and the latest patch notes don't inspire much hope. Thank god the competitive integrity of vMA has been restored with that Iceheart nerf though, that's a change everyone's been wanting for years!Over the last 3 years that I have been avidly PvPing, I've seen bombers take on several identities and iterations, from the Magblade stealth bombers, to Magplar bat bombs, to stam burst bombs, to Sorc Overload bombers. The latest iteration is the Necro Harmony bomber, and they're everywhere. I'm not sure how you've missed them, but arguing over semantics isn't going to solve the problem we're about to face if this mess goes live.
Bomber has been used by the devs back when they first revealed the skill lines and it really shouldn't have been this hard to figure out what bombers could mean in regards of this post.
See the pictures on the first page
Well i can tell you one solution for one of the biggest issues next patch:
Remove major defile from blastbones
I got a better one, pick between 40k health and max resistances or 8k weapon damage.
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ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭StamNecro is the current PVP meta. I don't care if people disagree. There is NO class that performs as tanky with as much damage and sustain as Stamcro. So naturally ZOS buffs them. They will dominate alongside Stamblade next patch with new 9 second 25% damage set. It will be disgusting. End of story.Edited by ZarkingFrued on February 4, 2020 1:33AM2 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »
Are you implying that face tank heal spam is good for the game? Yes I've adapted to it with NMA 7k WD, stall and burst, dropping all DoTs from my bars, etc... and as a result find the game profoundly less enjoyable than when we had tools like Bleeds and Defiles to directly counter said face tank heal spam. You're right though, "L2P issue" is not a valid argument, it has been an expression of frustration with several things repeated yet again below...For starters please refrain from using the L2P issue as ur argument. It doesnt make you look smart or good but quite the opposite. Unless you want me to use the L2P issue as an argument too. After all, you are also complaining here about face tank heal spam.
I've acknowledged multiple times that Defiles alone will not put the slightest dent in the Tank Meta, but must accompany restoring class and weapon DoTs, some form of Bleed mechanic that punishes resist stacking, and unfortunately probably nerfs to certain forms of mitigation and healing after that. I've even used this to illustrate why the Defile on Blastbones is nothing to be afraid of, as there are no viable forms of pressure damage that can take advantage of it.a face tank heal spam build... is somehow going to be countered by the defiles and going to have issues surviving. Right, makes perfect sense.
I'm getting very tired of "buffing damage and reducing healing will make the meta more tanky" because that's actually part of the point, if you force people to build more tanky (make more sacrifices to sustain, utility, and damage) in order to obtain the same level of braindead face tanking they previously enjoyed, those tanky builds are now far less efficient than before, and thus easier to kill for the player who enjoys simply having more damage, or easier to ignore because they've invested so much into being tanky that they can't effectively heal allies or burst anyone down.So what are defiles going to do, wait for it.......Yep you are absolutely right again, they will make people to build for tankiness.
They're trying to maintain their meta, they don't actually care about the health of the game.
Why won't you understand that major defile will make the meta even worse, it won't get any better and I've explained numerous times why it will change to the worse.
But here's the short version just for you:
Major defile increases killing potential without changing your build ---> you can invest more into survivability/ kill people with more survivability with no changes ---> everyone without major defile can't kill you and keeps losing to stamnecros ----> they start building to be able to survive against you ----> you are in a worse tank meta than before because now everything is shaped around 1 spec due to it having 100% major defile uptime.
3 -
MentalxHammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭StaticWave wrote: »I'm surprised zos hasnt closed this thread yet
Seriously this thread is so off the rails1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »
Are you implying that face tank heal spam is good for the game? Yes I've adapted to it with NMA 7k WD, stall and burst, dropping all DoTs from my bars, etc... and as a result find the game profoundly less enjoyable than when we had tools like Bleeds and Defiles to directly counter said face tank heal spam. You're right though, "L2P issue" is not a valid argument, it has been an expression of frustration with several things repeated yet again below...For starters please refrain from using the L2P issue as ur argument. It doesnt make you look smart or good but quite the opposite. Unless you want me to use the L2P issue as an argument too. After all, you are also complaining here about face tank heal spam.
I've acknowledged multiple times that Defiles alone will not put the slightest dent in the Tank Meta, but must accompany restoring class and weapon DoTs, some form of Bleed mechanic that punishes resist stacking, and unfortunately probably nerfs to certain forms of mitigation and healing after that. I've even used this to illustrate why the Defile on Blastbones is nothing to be afraid of, as there are no viable forms of pressure damage that can take advantage of it.a face tank heal spam build... is somehow going to be countered by the defiles and going to have issues surviving. Right, makes perfect sense.
I'm getting very tired of "buffing damage and reducing healing will make the meta more tanky" because that's actually part of the point, if you force people to build more tanky (make more sacrifices to sustain, utility, and damage) in order to obtain the same level of braindead face tanking they previously enjoyed, those tanky builds are now far less efficient than before, and thus easier to kill for the player who enjoys simply having more damage, or easier to ignore because they've invested so much into being tanky that they can't effectively heal allies or burst anyone down.So what are defiles going to do, wait for it.......Yep you are absolutely right again, they will make people to build for tankiness.
They're trying to maintain their meta, they don't actually care about the health of the game.
Why won't you understand that major defile will make the meta even worse, it won't get any better and I've explained numerous times why it will change to the worse.
But here's the short version just for you:
Major defile increases killing potential without changing your build ---> you can invest more into survivability/ kill people with more survivability with no changes ---> everyone without major defile can't kill you and keeps losing to stamnecros ----> they start building to be able to survive against you ----> you are in a worse tank meta than before because now everything is shaped around 1 spec due to it having 100% major defile uptime.
I don't understand why you don't get that pressure builds are the answer.Edited by TheBonesXXX on February 4, 2020 1:51AM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Are you implying that face tank heal spam is good for the game? Yes I've adapted to it with NMA 7k WD, stall and burst, dropping all DoTs from my bars, etc... and as a result find the game profoundly less enjoyable than when we had tools like Bleeds and Defiles to directly counter said face tank heal spam. You're right though, "L2P issue" is not a valid argument, it has been an expression of frustration with several things repeated yet again below...For starters please refrain from using the L2P issue as ur argument. It doesnt make you look smart or good but quite the opposite. Unless you want me to use the L2P issue as an argument too. After all, you are also complaining here about face tank heal spam.
I've acknowledged multiple times that Defiles alone will not put the slightest dent in the Tank Meta, but must accompany restoring class and weapon DoTs, some form of Bleed mechanic that punishes resist stacking, and unfortunately probably nerfs to certain forms of mitigation and healing after that. I've even used this to illustrate why the Defile on Blastbones is nothing to be afraid of, as there are no viable forms of pressure damage that can take advantage of it.a face tank heal spam build... is somehow going to be countered by the defiles and going to have issues surviving. Right, makes perfect sense.
I'm getting very tired of "buffing damage and reducing healing will make the meta more tanky" because that's actually part of the point, if you force people to build more tanky (make more sacrifices to sustain, utility, and damage) in order to obtain the same level of braindead face tanking they previously enjoyed, those tanky builds are now far less efficient than before, and thus easier to kill for the player who enjoys simply having more damage, or easier to ignore because they've invested so much into being tanky that they can't effectively heal allies or burst anyone down.So what are defiles going to do, wait for it.......Yep you are absolutely right again, they will make people to build for tankiness.
No im not implying that the tank meta is good for the game. Quite the opposite actually, thats why i told you a better way to address it.
Yes you've acknowledged that defiles wont put a dent on the tank meta. Thats not the issue. The issue is that you are in favor of easily handed defiles that will put a dent on normal builds and push people to build for tankiness. Thats the issue.
You may be getting tired of listening to that argument but thats not really part of the point. You are actually missing the point. Here is the thing, the tank meta exists because its easy to become a tank, not because you sacrifice ur sustain and ur dmg to become a tank. If you can have 40k hp and 6k wpn dmg then you are not really sacrificing anything. Thats the point. If you respec ur medium stam DK to a heavy armor tank with insane wpn dmg then you are not sacrificing anything. In fact, you could say its quite the opposite. You are upgrading ur build and make it more effective.
For people to be making sacrifices in order to become tanky and not being to burst people etc then you have to address the ease of becoming a tank. You are not putting a dent on the tank meta by trying to implement mechanics that counter it. You kill the damn thing at its root. Bring some kind of softcaps back, rework the extreme sets, rework CP and implement mechanics in general to keep the numbers in check and lets see if people can stack 30k hp while having the most wpn dmg in the game. If you want 40k hp, well prepare to to sacrifice ur entire build to achieve it. You want 7k wpn dmg? Well prepare to be squishy af. hats how you make people do sacrifices.4
This discussion has been closed.