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Prevent the reign of terror we're about to experience
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xylena✭✭✭✭✭
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.Retired until we break the Tank Meta0 -
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
The only counter to defile is defile.
This is why we will see a stamcro meta, because they are the only one with ez access to it.
Asking to people to stop relying on healing themselves is probably the most stupid thing you said, and you say tons of stupid things.
You still don't understand something.
Having defile allow the user to build more tanky, because you get from it ton of pressure.
Fighting against defile force people to build more tanky so you might have a chance. If your healing is destroyed, you need to invest into mitigation (resistances/%, healing modifier) to not be crushed by a tanky defile Boi.
Major defile is toxic because people hwo hasn't access to it cannot compete and and because it shift the meta to being more tanky.
We already experienced it. Defile doesn't make people invest for offense, it just force them to be more tanky.6 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
The only counter to defile is defile.
This is why we will see a stamcro meta, because they are the only one with ez access to it.
Asking to people to stop relying on healing themselves is probably the most stupid thing you said, and you say tons of stupid things.
You still don't understand something.
Having defile allow the user to build more tanky, because you get from it ton of pressure.
Fighting against defile force people to build more tanky so you might have a chance. If your healing is destroyed, you need to invest into mitigation (resistances/%, healing modifier) to not be crushed by a tanky defile Boi.
Major defile is toxic because people hwo hasn't access to it cannot compete and and because it shift the meta to being more tanky.
We already experienced it. Defile doesn't make people invest for offense, it just force them to be more tanky.
Healing and mitigation aren't the only way. You can roll-dodge, you can cc, you can move faster against melee opponent forcing him to spend GCDs on movement, you can mist, you can apply pressure preventing high pressure from opponent because he is forced to be on defense. But in U24 block+healing is superior to any other forms of protection.0 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.3 -
OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Think again about why this is mass Defile. Defile could be a skeleton Archer.0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
I already addressed the tanky attrition build thing in post #114. Tl;dr a healthy meta has a good balance of tanky attrition builds, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds. Instead, we play in a meta where paper was nerfed, and players adapted by duct-taping their rocks and scissors together, and it's bad.Asking to people to stop relying on healing themselves is probably the most stupid thing you said, and you say tons of stupid things. You still don't understand something. Having defile allow the user to build more tanky, because you get from it ton of pressure.
You're a Mag Sorc main, right? As in, the spec that should theoretically be least affected by Defiles, because it's designed to survive with shields and mobility, not face tank heal spam? Put the back bar SnB Twilight degeneracy down, pick up a Resto, and remember how shields and streaking work (if it's a BRP Resto you can literally forget that Defiles even exist).Retired until we break the Tank Meta3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
I'm 100% sure that OP is excellent PVP-er, fights in top duel tournaments etc... But he is clearly biased towards some builds and playstyle.
I remember nerf BRP thread from the beginning of U24 where he and his followers called BRP weapons as "carry weapons for potatoes" etc. And I told them that I tried S&B backbar instead of BRP DW and I was even tankier with it... Now let's come to Cyrodiil when meta settled and look what is used by players now. S&B. With exception of nightblades 95% is running with S&B backbar. More then that I didn't met any solo "potato" with BRP DW or BRP resto, quite the opposite, those few players who were using BRP weapons backbar were most dangerous opponents with very high dps and deadly burst.
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SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Think again about why this is mass Defile. Defile could be a skeleton Archer.
I have deemed you irrelevant to conversation. Goodbye.
I already addressed the tanky attrition build thing in post #114. Tl;dr a healthy meta has a good balance of tanky attrition builds, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds. Instead, we play in a meta where paper was nerfed, and players adapted by duct-taping their rocks and scissors together, and it's bad.Asking to people to stop relying on healing themselves is probably the most stupid thing you said, and you say tons of stupid things. You still don't understand something. Having defile allow the user to build more tanky, because you get from it ton of pressure.
You're a Mag Sorc main, right? As in, the spec that should theoretically be least affected by Defiles, because it's designed to survive with shields and mobility, not face tank heal spam? Put the back bar SnB Twilight degeneracy down, pick up a Resto, and remember how shields and streaking work (if it's a BRP Resto you can literally forget that Defiles even exist).
What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.4 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3
Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There was actually a pretty decent balance of builds and playstyles during the Bleed/Defile meta.
Tanky attrition builds had the advantage over bursty glass cannons.
Bursty glass cannons had the advantage over aggressive pressure builds.
Aggressive pressure builds had the advantage over tanky attrition builds.
Without viable DoTs, Bleeds, or Defiles, aggressive pressure builds ceased to exist, and players adapted by becoming both bursty and tanky. @BohnT2 is arguing that bringing back Defiles will bring back tanky attrition builds, and that these builds will have the advantage over bursty glass cannons. This is correct, and a good thing, because it would also bring back aggressive pressure builds (which is what I'd actually be running).
Unfortunately, one Defile on one ability isn't breaking the Tank Meta, as Defiles are still overall weaker than they've ever been (Befoul nerf alongside various healing buffs), and there are no DoT stacks strong enough to take advantage of the effective increase in pressure from reducing enemy healing. At best, the Blastbones Defile gives Stamcro players a better shot at executing enemies before they can block heal out of execute range if their burst combo falls short, which is a good thing, and something every spec should be able to do.
The irony in this post is that currently the top performing specs are agressive tanky burst cannons (sustained pressure these days is achieved by outhealing taken dmg enabling ppl to stay on the offense with very little defensive gcd usage - not dots keeping up dmg).
The next patch one of them will become an agressive tanky burst cannon that you also don´t recover from (attrition).
The build theory you speak about is nonexistant and thus is the entire argument you´re trying to make.
What will happen is that builds that fail to combine tankiness, sustained pressure and burst right now already will fall even further behind when one of the classes that already DOES achieve that feat now combines tankiness, sustained pressure, burst and attrition via permanent major defile on top.Edited by Derra on February 1, 2020 5:43PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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They fixed Blastbones being dodgeable? I know it's AOE, so it should have ignored dodges from the beginning, but on live if you roll at the right time the skeleton just falls apart and does nothing. And yes, I think the secondary effect for both Blastbones morphs will need to be changed; the Magicka one doesn't really do anything anymore, and the Stamina one will be too strong once the skill isn't such a random dice roll every cast.And now we reach the critical point of a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile, which has shown in the past that it's extremely unhealthy for the game, but now the skill isn't dodgeable or limited to meele range, no it's undodgeable, ignores Los, deals high damage and is cheap.
Do people actually use shields in PvP these days?
I already addressed the tanky attrition build thing in post #114. Tl;dr a healthy meta has a good balance of tanky attrition builds, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds. Instead, we play in a meta where paper was nerfed, and players adapted by duct-taping their rocks and scissors together, and it's bad.Asking to people to stop relying on healing themselves is probably the most stupid thing you said, and you say tons of stupid things. You still don't understand something. Having defile allow the user to build more tanky, because you get from it ton of pressure.
You're a Mag Sorc main, right? As in, the spec that should theoretically be least affected by Defiles, because it's designed to survive with shields and mobility, not face tank heal spam? Put the back bar SnB Twilight degeneracy down, pick up a Resto, and remember how shields and streaking work (if it's a BRP Resto you can literally forget that Defiles even exist).
For no-CP, I think the current % reductions on defile might be a bit too strong for it to be allowed to become widespread again, at least without burst damage being looked at. That said, I'm totally fine with the idea of defiles being available to most/all builds, as long as it's not tied to a strong burst ability and given ~100% uptime. And yes, there needs to be a mix of pressure builds, burst builds, etc...Since I started playing again a couple days ago, it's basically what I expected after the DOT nerfs - BGs are nothing but burst builds with a sprinkling of healers.1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
If Stamcro overperforms, it'll be because of the crazy healing resulting from buffs to Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil, combined with more reliable burst thanks to Colossus changes giving more Major Vuln uptime in PvP and Blastbones now actually firing consistently, which really just highlights how bad it is for ranged single target to be undodgeable (see: original Warden Cliff Racer), especially when there is no drawback like the channeling required for Templar beams.Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Complaining about the Defile is like complaining about the paint job on the nuclear missile about to land on you. Good Stamcro players are going to burst you before the Defile would even make a difference, and I maintain that any counterplay that punishes brainless face tank heal spam is a good thing. SnB block healing at 10% health should not survive 8k WD Executioner spam. Initiative and agency should belong to the player playing to win, not the player stalling.Edited by xylena on February 1, 2020 5:50PMRetired until we break the Tank Meta2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
If Stamcro overperforms, it'll be because of the crazy healing resulting from buffs to Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil, combined with more reliable burst thanks to Colossus changes giving more Major Vuln uptime in PvP and Blastbones now actually firing consistently, which really just highlights how bad it is for ranged single target to be undodgeable (see: original Warden Cliff Racer), especially when there is no drawback like the channeling required for Templar beams.
Complaining about the Defile is like complaining about the paint job on the nuclear missile about to land on you. Good Stamcro players are going to burst you before the Defile would even make a difference, and I maintain that any counterplay that punishes brainless face tank heal spam is a good thing. SnB block healing at 10% health should not survive 8k WD Executioner spam. Initiative and agency should belong to the player playing to win, not the player stalling.
100% this. Fought some stamcros yesterday and when they were able to time blastbones with off-balance heavy attack stun into onslaught-execute I was dead in next GCD. From full 26k HP to zero in 2 seconds.1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Remember the Templar before the game itself went live? It is a common them in this game that the squeaky wheel gets the attention of Zos regardless of basis of their claims.
Remember the fuzz around onslaught and how "weak" was EoTS?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.Retired until we break the Tank Meta0 -
Access to defile is a strong lever in this case, it starts to put a lot of pressure only on groups with an excess of healing. Thanks to access to mass Defile only for one class, new windows for explosion appeared for the rest.Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 1, 2020 5:59PM0
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
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I already addressed the tanky attrition build thing in post #114. Tl;dr a healthy meta has a good balance of tanky attrition builds, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds. Instead, we play in a meta where paper was nerfed, and players adapted by duct-taping their rocks and scissors together, and it's bad.Asking to people to stop relying on healing themselves is probably the most stupid thing you said, and you say tons of stupid things. You still don't understand something. Having defile allow the user to build more tanky, because you get from it ton of pressure.
You're a Mag Sorc main, right? As in, the spec that should theoretically be least affected by Defiles, because it's designed to survive with shields and mobility, not face tank heal spam? Put the back bar SnB Twilight degeneracy down, pick up a Resto, and remember how shields and streaking work (if it's a BRP Resto you can literally forget that Defiles even exist).
Bursty glass canon builds aren't viable in ESO. Only Stamblade can do it because of cloak.
Building defense is more effective than building offense, because it's how the game unfortunately work.
Defile is not good for magsorc, even if they aren't the most directly affected by it.
In a defile meta, people build tanky and high health pool + high mitigation. This is extremely bad for magsorc burst playstyle.
Also, stop speaking about Streak aka not fighting as a solution.
You are litteraly proving my point (defile force everyone to build tanky) with your suggestions.
You are telling me to go matriarch + S&B + BRP resto staff + healing ward + shields + Streak.
Do you realise how toxic is it?Edited by Aedaryl on February 1, 2020 5:56PM0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
Agree. This is the result of outright deleting aggressive pressure builds.Bursty glass canon builds aren't viable in ESO. Only Stamblade can do it because of cloak. Building defense is more effective than building offense, because it's how the game unfortunately work.
L2P issue.Defile is not good for magsorc, even if they aren't the most directly affected by it.
Agree, tanky attrition builds do have the advantage over bursty glass cannons, but it is not an auto-win.In a defile meta, people build tanky and high health pool + high mitigation. This is extremely bad for magsorc burst playstyle.
Good Sorcs use Streak offensively or to counter say, an undodgeable ranged single target nuke that can be stunned.Also, stop speaking about Streak aka not fighting as a solution.
You can build more tanky, or you can L2P. If a baddie zergling like me can figure out how to survive Defiles, you can too.You are litteraly proving my point (defile force everyone to build tanky) with your suggestions.
Yes, which is why I said to put down the back bar SnB Twilight degeneracy, not use it. We're not entirely at odds here.You are telling me to go matriarch + S&B + BRP resto staff + healing ward + shields + Streak. Do you realise how toxic is it?Retired until we break the Tank Meta0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZoS is mad good at making things impossible to compromise.
It's either an unusable joke of an ability or OP; they never can find a sweet spot it seems.3 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
Everything kills solo randoms in No-CP. You can kill people with Acid Spray. It's impossible to balance anything around both CP and No-CP and also PvE, so CP shouldn't really enter this discussion until ZOS is ready to overhaul the system.For no-CPRetired until we break the Tank Meta1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is crazy how people cannot understand why 100% uptime on major defile is a problem.
If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Come on bois, we already experienced major defile meta, everyone agreed on how much it was horrible.
Necro having their core damage skill being fonctionna is great, but don't allow major defile cancer.
Look, we understand your concern, we don't agree.
Defile builds and resource attacking builds have a place in PvP.
Calling for Nerfs on a style you don't seem acceptable is that, calling for nerfs.
Some of don't enjoy running around a tree till we have max fury stacks and pressing three buttons for a combo.1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Agree. This is the result of outright deleting aggressive pressure builds.Bursty glass canon builds aren't viable in ESO. Only Stamblade can do it because of cloak. Building defense is more effective than building offense, because it's how the game unfortunately work.
L2P issue.Defile is not good for magsorc, even if they aren't the most directly affected by it.
Agree, tanky attrition builds do have the advantage over bursty glass cannons, but it is not an auto-win.In a defile meta, people build tanky and high health pool + high mitigation. This is extremely bad for magsorc burst playstyle.
Good Sorcs use Streak offensively or to counter say, an undodgeable ranged single target nuke that can be stunned.Also, stop speaking about Streak aka not fighting as a solution.
You can build more tanky, or you can L2P. If a baddie zergling like me can figure out how to survive Defiles, you can too.You are litteraly proving my point (defile force everyone to build tanky) with your suggestions.
Yes, which is why I said to put down the back bar SnB Twilight degeneracy, not use it. We're not entirely at odds here.You are telling me to go matriarch + S&B + BRP resto staff + healing ward + shields + Streak. Do you realise how toxic is it?
Omg you are trying hard.
It's been years that glass Canon builds doesn't exist.
And sorc aren't glass canon.
Streak will not prevent major defile from being applied, which is the subject here.
Of course you want defile if you are zergling, like you say.
Saying to people to L2P when you claim being bad and zergling is funny.
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xylena✭✭✭✭✭
My PvForum build uses Copy/Paste as its ultimate, so it's not really hard, harder than SnB block healing though.Omg you are trying hard.
Technically they do in the form of NB bombers, but you're absolutely right, and that's a sign of an unhealthy meta.It's been years that glass Canon builds doesn't exist.
It would be nice to have the option, no? Glass cannon 16k HP Mag Sorcs used to wreck meta Bleed/Defile players.And sorc aren't glass canon.
Streak should however prevent the Stamcro from landing Colossus and Dizzy at the same time as Blastbones, which again, is what actually kills people, not the Defile, especially not against skilled use of damage shields.Streak will not prevent major defile from being applied, which is the subject here.
And there goes the joke over Aedaryl's head, like the ballista bolt fired by the potato who stole your Coldfire.Of course you want defile if you are zergling, like you say. Saying to people to L2P when you claim being bad and zergling is funny.
Retired until we break the Tank Meta2 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3
Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.
They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.
Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.
So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.
Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
Yes. Face tank heal needs to be punished. Players who think they always get to face tank heal through anything they want, they deserve to die. Players who refuse to learn other defensive tactics, they deserve to die. Players who play only to not die, as opposed to playing to win, they deserve to die.You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent?
So what you're saying is... nerf Magplar?near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.
Retired until we break the Tank Meta1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭If bMartiniDaniels wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3
Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.
They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.
Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.
So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.
Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.
You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."
And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.
Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.1 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »If bMartiniDaniels wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »
Stop relying solely on face tank heal spam. Countering Defiles was a L2P issue then, and it's even easier now. Players who think they can/should be able to just face tank heal spam and never die... deserve to get destroyed for it.If you have trouble to understand why it's too strong, duel with someone, then remove 30% of your healing and convert it to DPS. To understand how much is it, compare to your own DPS. This is not even taking into account the huge sustain and damage you loose by being forced to cast heal more often.
Lol. I finally understood the whole point that you wanted to convey this is really deep. We deserve Stamcro with mass defile for all the reasons why we came to this healing.
No, that is completely illogical to justify a single class have a broken mechanic above all other classes based upon the state of the game. It is only going to make the state of the game worse. Your continued strawmans and aversion of fact is continuing to derail the thread. Please stop.
Fact of the matter is this defile is going to send what is CURRENTLY the best class in the game into Summerset Rune Cage Sorc level territory of broken. You will see everyone gravitate towards it, except this will physically change the meta towards and even tankier playstyle. The ability should lose defile completely and be replaced with something like a disease dot.
Hi! It was your thread about nerfing BRP.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501684/once-again-brp-resto-and-dw-both-need-to-be-nerfed/p3
Tell me please why every "potato" is with S&B now and not with BRP.
They aren’t? There are still plenty of below average players getting carried by both Brp dw and Resto, both of which need nerfs, but are not the focus of this post. This post is about blastbones. Further derailment just proves your lack of conscious argument even more.
Stamcro OP, nerf Defile? No, you reduce the idiotic healing output from stacking Spirit Guardian and Mortal Coil on top of Rally and Vigor, make Blastbones dodgeable, and undo all the Defile nerfs that have made counterplay to idiotic healing output unavailable to most other specs. Defiles are a good thing and the Defile on Blastbones is a good start.What you’re describing is true, regarding have a good balance of tanky attrition, bursty glass cannons, and aggressive pressure builds, however this is not the case with blastbones as it is only available to a singular class. No explanation is needed as to why only a single class in the game operating as the clear cut best class and far superior to others as a tanky attrition build is imbalance.
So you think a good start is a single class having near 100% uptime on defile whilst most others have next to no uptime whatsoever? You want healing to be nerfed, and you want defile to become more prevalent? Thank you, you have established a basis for a mutual understanding of your dearth of game knowledge. Defile has no business existing in the game. Healing simply needs to be completely overhauled. In the CURRENT STATE of the game however, regardless of your perpetual “vision” of how it should be, near 100% defile uptime for one of the hardest to kill, and hardest hitting classes, is ABSOLUTELY imbalanced.
Stamcro on PTS is currently a slow pressure, aggressive pressure, and bursty tank spec all in one. Blastbones should not make it to live in its current state.
You might as well said "I don't like it, it should be removed."
And then said "My knowledge of MMOs is superior to yours." And saved yourself some time.
Attacking resources has a place in every MMO, maybe you should get a new hobby.
What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources. Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
It's not derailing. Defile forces enemies to spend more resources and GCDs to achieve their normal rate of healing. This is one way that pressure builds are supposed to be able to gain an advantage in a healthy meta.What are you even saying? Defile has nothing to do with resources.Another attempt at derailing due to lack of conscious argument. Can we get a mod in here to stop the constant derailment?Retired until we break the Tank Meta0 -
In any case, deleting defile as a style will bring back everything that was before access. This is a step back and after that there will be a point of no return.0
This discussion has been closed.