Prevent the reign of terror we're about to experience

p00tx

xylena wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Instead of messing with healing overall (PvE exists), can't we all just agree to cut cross healing by an additional 50% via Battle Spririt? Having a pocket healer is nice, but I'd rather lose that than to have you guys get the devs to gut healing across the board so you can pugstomp zergs. I really don't know why players seem incapable of seeing the far reaching implications of their suggestions, rather than just being single-mindedly tunneled into their own tiny little corner of the game.

Reducing group healing via Battle Spirit has been suggested and I'd agree that it would make PvP better.

You reference far-reaching implications and caution against tunneling into a small corner of the game, so you should probably consider how pugs feel when they drive an organized ball group off the flags, only for the ball group to stall the fight for the next hour by running around the walls. The ball group has no actual chance of winning the battle due to numbers, but the pugs have no actual chance of wiping the ball group without certain stationary ground AoEs.

Reducing group healing would make it easier for the pugs to finish the win, should the ball group only stall, but it also gives the ball group a better chance of pulling off a high-risk high-reward bomb against a larger group of pugs. This is much healthier gameplay, in which initiative and aggression are rewarded, while heal blobbing to stall the fight is punished. Group purge spam also needs to not be a thing, but that's another topic.

Oh I know how frustrating it is. I spent the first few years of my time in this game exclusively PvPing, almost loathing anything to do with PvE. I got bored when everyone decided to become a heavy armor healbot and PvP healing became a low/no skill spec for players who didn't know how to do damage and I wandered into PvE. I still feel massive frustration when I get cornered alone by a "small group" comprised of 50% healers and I can't touch a single one of them before I'm deleted by one or all of their 4 zoo sorcs or their cloaked snipe spammers. PvP is frustrating for all of us, and the better you get at it, the more frustrating it gets because you want to find people to fight who match your skill, but you often get outmatched by cheese and gear carry. I don't honestly know what the solution is to all of this, or if there actually is one. I just want to encourage people to very careful about how to guide the devs toward changes, because this game is big and varied, and one change can have massive implications across the board in content that many don't even know exists.

katorga

ChunkyCat wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

There was actually a pretty decent balance of builds and playstyles during the Bleed/Defile meta.

Tanky attrition builds had the advantage over bursty glass cannons.
Bursty glass cannons had the advantage over aggressive pressure builds.
Aggressive pressure builds had the advantage over tanky attrition builds.

Without viable DoTs, Bleeds, or Defiles, aggressive pressure builds ceased to exist, and players adapted by becoming both bursty and tanky.

+1

That kinda nailed it.

I still think based on the sheer number and variety of "X needs nerfing" posts in the forums, that with that many players thinking that many different things are OP, you likely have a reasonable balance.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts, we must remind everyone that all post should be kept within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. Having different opinions and debating is completely acceptable. However when doing so, keep it civil and constructive. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,

Xvorg

Joy_Division wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

What's amusing is that the majority of people complaining that bad players shouldn't be able to do stuff don;t realize that they're bad players. If someone is constantly complaining that "over-performing" abilities and bad players with "crutches" are ruining they're 1vXs, I'm betting real money the core issue is user-error.

I'm not sure if this is in response to me, and it's kinda weird coming from someone with the "you are underperforming" quote in their sig, but I retract the part of the argument about player skill, that was me getting frustrated with the fact that we're probably never leaving the Tank Meta because it's apparently what the player base wants. People would rather sit there holding block and playing "who can stack the most healbots on the flag" than risk dying I guess.

Not directed at you at all. It's mostly toward those people who come on these forums and post death recaps claiming they only reason they died was because of bad balancing or some other excuse. If anything, I think it's people like that who pushed ZoS into giving us this dumb meta complaining about dying to "baddies" or "zergers" or whatever.

That's something quite different from expressing frustration over the direction of the game, something I do constantly.

Well, people does that simply because they can't stand the most natural thing that happens when you enter in Cyro: You are going to die, for sure. And most of the time it will be your fault.

Personally, my main concern regarding this game is that is becoming less fun every patch. Saddly the current development team believes fun is a synonym of inmortal...

Maybe they should watch Highlander again, and get the meaning of "Who wants to live forever?"

Xvorg

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

Necro is an EXTREMELY barebones class, it offers strong debuffs rather than seeing a healing buff such as vitality or mending. To me I see the trade off in high damage output in relation to the kind of tankiness you'd see on Warden or Dragonknight.

Wait - did you just say that one of the tankiest classes in the game (without all those buffs mind you) isn´t tanky? How do you have to build a necro to not be tanky?
I´m genuinely interested.

Necromancer 's offensives kit offers hard healing skills and some of those provide damage mitigation. I never said in any way that the class wasn't tanky. What I'm saying is that the class offers hard numbers instead of obtainable buffs You can build Necro just as tanky as everyone else, but I promise you mender,mortal coil, and goliath ult won't keep you as tanky as a DK would be with igneous shield and dragon's blood. It's also common sense to avoid fighting people over 34k base health because chances are you're going to get kited into someone else whos able to kill you and thats a 2v1

i bolded the important words just in case you don't read this post like you did the other one so you can understand what im saying

You think that igneous + CDB make a DK tanky? That's the best joke of the day.

In the case of stam Dks, they cannot run CDB + igneous because they don't have such a big mag pool. What makes a Stam DK tanky is a set called "Warrior's fury" that increases the weapon dmg based on dmg received. Yup, they use igneous for 2 purposses, to proc minor brut and to get the extra healing on VIGOR, not CDB, not even GDB, but to make it work they need to get some crits. Take away Fury and stamDK has nothing.

Regarding mDK, using CDB + igneous shield has no purpose. You use one or the other. If you go for igneous, you pair it with cauterize, so you just have to count to 5 to get a good burst heal. If you go for CDB, you don't need igneous, just slot a resto staff and if you hit the 30% health threshold you get a 15% extra recovery on a skill that escalates on health lost.

Xvorg

BohnT2 wrote: »

Please try to keep more on track of the post.

Major defile is the big issue here as it enables builds which have been unhealthy for the game in the past and will be even worse in the current meta.

Other issues like LoS are still worthy to be discussed but it doesn't affect the meta overall like Major defile does, it's also a much more general issue as this is relevant for every class that has targetable pets. It also doesn't affect building in general as the LoS isn't something that gives you consistent access to something you otherwise had to build for unlike penetration which can be completely replaced by using 2h ult.

In theory, combining this one

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Ward+of+Cyrodiil+Set

with this one

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Durok's+Bane+Set

could eventually keep major defile up 20 out of 30 secs. If you are good at counting and have access to letal arrow, you could raise that number to 28 secs uptime just by using the arrow.

My problem with BB is not the defile per se. My problem is the lack of defiles on classes that need it as reliable source of dmg.

In any case, we all know by now how ZoS sells products.... and Necro is the FotY

katorga

Xvorg wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

What's amusing is that the majority of people complaining that bad players shouldn't be able to do stuff don;t realize that they're bad players. If someone is constantly complaining that "over-performing" abilities and bad players with "crutches" are ruining they're 1vXs, I'm betting real money the core issue is user-error.

I'm not sure if this is in response to me, and it's kinda weird coming from someone with the "you are underperforming" quote in their sig, but I retract the part of the argument about player skill, that was me getting frustrated with the fact that we're probably never leaving the Tank Meta because it's apparently what the player base wants. People would rather sit there holding block and playing "who can stack the most healbots on the flag" than risk dying I guess.

Not directed at you at all. It's mostly toward those people who come on these forums and post death recaps claiming they only reason they died was because of bad balancing or some other excuse. If anything, I think it's people like that who pushed ZoS into giving us this dumb meta complaining about dying to "baddies" or "zergers" or whatever.

That's something quite different from expressing frustration over the direction of the game, something I do constantly.

Well, people does that simply because they can't stand the most natural thing that happens when you enter in Cyro: You are going to die, for sure. And most of the time it will be your fault.

Personally, my main concern regarding this game is that is becoming less fun every patch. Saddly the current development team believes fun is a synonym of inmortal...

Maybe they should watch Highlander again, and get the meaning of "Who wants to live forever?"

Immortal builds are a function of creative video editing.

Best way to stay alive: run in a group. Most OP skill: unload on targets while they are already distracted fighting other targets. unable to notice or react to what you are doing. Most impactful and powerful build: support/healer.

You will still get wrecked when the Other Guy is doing the same thing.

SenpaiNFT

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

TheBonesXXX

I think Blastbones being op is as over stated as Shalks was, easy to counter.

OrderoftheDarkness

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

BohnT2

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

OrderoftheDarkness

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

My opinion is that I don't see an OP for users of the dizzy + exe template. Because blastbones still has a summon time. But such a buff for a jump can add more opportunity for venom skull. Tankism that's another story.

BohnT2

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

My opinion is that I don't see an OP for users of the dizzy + exe template. Because blastbones still has a call time. But such a buff for a jump can add more opportunity for venom skull. Tankism that's another story.

It's not rocket science, the summoning animation takes 2.5 seconds and major defile is applied for 4 seconds.
With how reliable blastbones are this translates to an almost 100% uptime on major defile.

This hasn't been the case for its whole lifespan except for 1 week when zos decided to clap both its bugged damage and also make it extremely unreliable in week 2 of elsweyr pts.

OrderoftheDarkness

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

My opinion is that I don't see an OP for users of the dizzy + exe template. Because blastbones still has a call time. But such a buff for a jump can add more opportunity for venom skull. Tankism that's another story.

It's not rocket science, the summoning animation takes 2.5 seconds and major defile is applied for 4 seconds.
With how reliable blastbones are this translates to an almost 100% uptime on major defile.

This hasn't been the case for its whole lifespan except for 1 week when zos decided to clap both its bugged damage and also make it extremely unreliable in week 2 of elsweyr pts.

You are exaggerating now with a clever background. Because the jump itself will take about 1 second until the moment of impact.

BohnT2

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

My opinion is that I don't see an OP for users of the dizzy + exe template. Because blastbones still has a call time. But such a buff for a jump can add more opportunity for venom skull. Tankism that's another story.

It's not rocket science, the summoning animation takes 2.5 seconds and major defile is applied for 4 seconds.
With how reliable blastbones are this translates to an almost 100% uptime on major defile.

This hasn't been the case for its whole lifespan except for 1 week when zos decided to clap both its bugged damage and also make it extremely unreliable in week 2 of elsweyr pts.

You are exaggerating now with a clever background. Because the jump itself will take about 1 second until the moment of impact.

Have you been on pts and tested it in duels or are you trying to defend your main character to exploit it?

And even with a jump taking 1 seconds your looking at a close to 100% uptime because 2.5+1 <4

OrderoftheDarkness

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

My opinion is that I don't see an OP for users of the dizzy + exe template. Because blastbones still has a call time. But such a buff for a jump can add more opportunity for venom skull. Tankism that's another story.

It's not rocket science, the summoning animation takes 2.5 seconds and major defile is applied for 4 seconds.
With how reliable blastbones are this translates to an almost 100% uptime on major defile.

This hasn't been the case for its whole lifespan except for 1 week when zos decided to clap both its bugged damage and also make it extremely unreliable in week 2 of elsweyr pts.

You are exaggerating now with a clever background. Because the jump itself will take about 1 second until the moment of impact.

Have you been on pts and tested it in duels or are you trying to defend your main character to exploit it?

And even with a jump taking 1 seconds your looking at a close to 100% uptime because 2.5+1 <4

I don't see any point in answering you further, I'm sorry. Too many inconsistencies and new details. Sometimes you downplay, sometimes you exaggerate. Yes, this is less than four, but you understand that necro must hit at least once under defile. You also ignored my question about your main. Why sorc should have a streak.

BohnT2

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

My opinion is that I don't see an OP for users of the dizzy + exe template. Because blastbones still has a call time. But such a buff for a jump can add more opportunity for venom skull. Tankism that's another story.

It's not rocket science, the summoning animation takes 2.5 seconds and major defile is applied for 4 seconds.
With how reliable blastbones are this translates to an almost 100% uptime on major defile.

This hasn't been the case for its whole lifespan except for 1 week when zos decided to clap both its bugged damage and also make it extremely unreliable in week 2 of elsweyr pts.

You are exaggerating now with a clever background. Because the jump itself will take about 1 second until the moment of impact.

Have you been on pts and tested it in duels or are you trying to defend your main character to exploit it?

And even with a jump taking 1 seconds your looking at a close to 100% uptime because 2.5+1 <4

I don't see any point in answering you further, I'm sorry. Too many inconsistencies and new details. You also ignored my question about your main. Why sorc should have a streak.

First of all i did answer which specs i play already and secondly I'm not here to discuss about a strawman just to derail my own post.
I'm also yet to see a single constructive argument of yours why access to high major defile uptime is healthy for the game especially when it's only available on one spec

OrderoftheDarkness

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Defile was mass taken out of the game and made harder to access for a reason. Blastbones is already overperforming when it lands, as the defile uptime is astronomical compared to ideal uptime on other classes, so with an actual functioning blastbones(which is good btw, minus defile) we are going to see a meta shift in PvP that will likely be worse then anything we’ve ever seen.

I will play out the scenario so our community members of lesser PvP knowledge may understand what is going to take place.

1. Good players already understand how broken Stamcro will be just by their game knowledge and reading patch notes and many migrate to the class.
2. Prominent YouTubers will begin to slowly migrate towards Stamcro as more and more realize how much it is overperforming by seeing good players on the class.
3. Casual players will see these YouTubers playing majority Stamcro, and will think to themselves “wow that class looks really strong” and migrate to it themselves.
4. A ripple effect occurs, as there is a direct positive correlation between amount of stamcros in and defile uptime in cyrodiil.
5. Good players see this correlation due to their game knowledge and gravitate to adding more survivability, likely healing and overall tankiness, to their builds in order to combat this.
6. Aforementioned YouTubers will begin to slowly move towards an even tankier, higher healing builds, as they see good players do so because of the nature of the correlation mentioned in #4, more defile=demand for more survivability, mainly healing.
7. Aforementioned casuals will see these YouTubers on tankier, higher healing builds and commit monkey seeith monkey doeth; model their own stamcro build after said YouTubers in order to try and compete.
8. With the abundance of everyone in even tankier builds utilizing more healing, a meta will emerge that relies solely upon the defile from blastbones and wearing down your enemy, with defile.

Such a meta is going to be absolutely horrendous for PvP. It was unbalanced with prevalent defile previously such as reverb and lethal arrow as well as sets like Fasallas, but now being isolated to one class with such a high uptime compared to the rest of something is not done about the defile we’ll see a meta shift in a severely negative direction.

I'm wondering where on your list is anything about PVP. In close combat for Stamcro using Dizzy, little will change. Except that the Blastbones will start to think less whether to jump them or not. I think you have the potential to be a good politician.

And that is exactly the point with blastbones finally working properly the major defile uptime reaches absurd levels something that wasn't the case up to this patch and it held stamnecro somewhat in check even though it was already one of the best specs due to its tankiness and the chance of applying major defile.

My opinion is that I don't see an OP for users of the dizzy + exe template. Because blastbones still has a call time. But such a buff for a jump can add more opportunity for venom skull. Tankism that's another story.

It's not rocket science, the summoning animation takes 2.5 seconds and major defile is applied for 4 seconds.
With how reliable blastbones are this translates to an almost 100% uptime on major defile.

This hasn't been the case for its whole lifespan except for 1 week when zos decided to clap both its bugged damage and also make it extremely unreliable in week 2 of elsweyr pts.

You are exaggerating now with a clever background. Because the jump itself will take about 1 second until the moment of impact.

Have you been on pts and tested it in duels or are you trying to defend your main character to exploit it?

And even with a jump taking 1 seconds your looking at a close to 100% uptime because 2.5+1 <4

I don't see any point in answering you further, I'm sorry. Too many inconsistencies and new details. You also ignored my question about your main. Why sorc should have a streak.

First of all i did answer which specs i play already and secondly I'm not here to discuss about a strawman just to derail my own post.
I'm also yet to see a single constructive argument of yours why access to high major defile uptime is healthy for the game especially when it's only available on one spec

Sometimes you downplay, sometimes you exaggerate. Yes, this is less than four, but you understand that necro must hit at least once under defile.
The same can be said about streak it is bad for the game when this is available only to one class. But this is just an opinion, we always do not like something.

azjuwelz

Stamcro is OP but magcro is not? I ask because I recently rolled a new character, thinking it would be fun to try out a pvp necro healer.

BohnT2

azjuwelz wrote: »

Stamcro is OP but magcro is not? I ask because I recently rolled a new character, thinking it would be fun to try out a pvp necro healer.

This isn't really the thread for this but they're completely different.
The reason stamnecro is becoming incredibly strong is due to having almost 100% major defile uptime, why this isn't healthy for the game at all has been described in the previous posts.

To still answer your question, magnecro is an incredible healer in pvp due to various reasons

iCaliban

xylena wrote: »

I still don't understand why people are so afraid of Defiles. Try learning some defensive tactics other than block healing? Anyone can use Race Against Time or a well-timed roll dodge.

So your brilliant solution to defiles is to..... Run away. Engaging gameplay there. Also, its gonna be perma defile. You just gonna kite all day?

No. Be serious.

BaiterOfZergs

I see some people believe high heals is the problem but that’s not really true, it’s the combination of heals and high mitigation.

If you take a look back at 1.6 heals was very high and unnerfed yet during that patch you could still nuke people with 20k plus dawnbreakers. Again, this was before they decided to nerf heals via battle spirit but people still died very often. Even if you fast forward a little bit after that people could still do 20k plus BOLs although it didn’t mean much because damage was high and people wasn’t as tanky.

So personally I think the devs should focus on combating mitigation sources.

xylena

I'm sorry but playing against Defiles is a L2P issue, just like it was when Defiles were meta.

Enjoy holding block in your blobs of healbots waiting for your zerg to play the game for you.

jadarock

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Change major defile to minor? Or guarantee poison status effect? Add a dot component?

Regardless. On demand aoe defile that is reliably procced is too strong. This is why reverb got nerfed and it was single target

Reverb got nerf because first of all it's thematically stupid to have a defile on a shield stun associated with disease-causing. Second, it's a lot to have defile + stun. Third, it was to highlight class identity.
P. S. I still find it funny to look at Magplar with defile. This is really very funny the warrior of light is associated with rot.

Since that nerf it's basically run 3 dmg sets

I would honestly prefer 5 sec TTK to the 5 min TTK that we currently have

Agreed and thats why alot of my builds on xbox are glass. I cant stand battling for 5 mins for a lag spike or a missed barswap or false positive potion or breakfree or an ulti not fire to determine the fight.
I dont enjoy fighting these builds that heal 1-100
3 or 4 times in a fight either its stupid. So for me personally its burst or bust baby xD

OrderoftheDarkness

xylena wrote: »

I'm sorry but playing against Defiles is a L2P issue, just like it was when Defiles were meta.

Enjoy holding block in your blobs of healbots waiting for your zerg to play the game for you.

I agree with you. I was just trying to explain to TS that its argument that only one class has access to defile is not an argument. That's why I referred to the streak and his main. Mobility is one of the weakest features of stamcro.

pod88kk

Just make it dodge dodgeable. Leave the damage and cost as is

BohnT2

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

I'm sorry but playing against Defiles is a L2P issue, just like it was when Defiles were meta.

Enjoy holding block in your blobs of healbots waiting for your zerg to play the game for you.

I agree with you. I was just trying to explain to TS that its argument that only one class has access to defile is not an argument. That's why I referred to the streak and his main. Mobility is one of the weakest features of stamcro.

Stop trying to derail the post with a strawman and actually start bringing up arguments you have yet to provide a single constructive argument at all.

BohnT2

pod88kk wrote: »

Just make it dodge dodgeable. Leave the damage and cost as is

Please read the post before answering.
No one has asked to change the damage or range because the only issue is major defile, nothing else.

xylena

iCaliban wrote: »

So your brilliant solution to defiles is to..... Run away. Engaging gameplay there. Also, its gonna be perma defile. You just gonna kite all day?

No, I'm going to turn and burn players that don't know the difference between kiting and running away.

BohnT2 wrote: »

the only issue is major defile, nothing else.

Defile is an L2P issue, please refer back to post #114.

StaticWave

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Mobility is one of the weakest features of stamcro.

Let me remind you that blastbones can leap from 28m away, and Venom Skull exists as a viable morph for stamcros. Who needs mobility when you can simply stay at range and deal damage?

My tooltip for blastbones fully buffed is 99.9% similar to dawnbreaker's direct dmg part, and it's a cheap and spammable skill that can permanently defile your target. If this doesn't scream imbalanced for you, idk what does.